Off with their Balls.

by or chemical? - a slower more psychologicaly damaging approach to the same end. Sun Jul 18, 2004 14:16

Chief Supt Denis Fitzpatrick has had his balls off.
read the Irish Times on the same issue-

by Deirdre Clancy Sun Jul 18, 2004 18:04

I don't know, I think the term 'vocation' is often used to excuse the fact that certain professions get treated badly and paid bad wages. Nursing, for instance, is a highly skilled, difficult, relatively low-paid job, and nurses are expected to accept this state of affairs because they 'have a vocation'.

I don't think that's the problem in the guards. I think the problem is within the structure, which hasn't changed since the beginning of the state and which seems to allow for a lack of accountabiltiy, by default, amongst the less savoury members of the force.

Having said that, there are plenty of decent guards too, as I know from signing on twice weekly. I've met two genuine assholes out of a whole plethora in the course of a year and a half of signing on. That's not bad for a year and a half.

I'm not excusing the actions of corrupt guards, who defintiely exist probably well beyond Donegal, but I do think we have to be careful not to dehumanise a whole group of people based on their actions. Whether or not you agree with the idea of a police force of the nature of the one we have, 'fascist' is a bit gratuitious and lacking in nuance to say the least. It would be like saying all lawyers are bad because some fleece people and are mercenary, or that all teachers are bad because a few have used violence, or that all university lecturers are bad because some have tried to get their students to join Opus Dei or have turned out to have made up their qualifications (or whatever the latest scandal is). It might be better to offer an analysis of why the structure and nature of the police force that we have is needs to change and offer alternative ideas.

I'd like to see the level of the newswire items and the debate they try to instigate on Indymedia improve and raised a notch or two, maybe a bit beyond the level of Neil from 'The Young Ones'.

by cmaco. Sun Jul 18, 2004 18:37

i could'nt have said it better....... lets try keep a mature perspective on indymedia...too many imature rants decredit the overall project!!

by paul c Sun Jul 18, 2004 19:31

McDowell said that "putting a new layer between me and the gardaí would not increase accountability

it not him the guards need to be accountable too its us!!!!!!


the thing about not taing all gurads with th same brush im not su sure about that...

ok so there's only a percentage that do fraudalent or harmful acts but a good portion of the rest of the cops know about it and say nothing, thats the thing that tarnishes the entire police force or the church for example, there new about it and said nothing... therefore helping the bad apples?

the doens't seem? to be much public clamour to have a indenpendent police board etc .. and then there things we could go on about here but we don't want to for fear of messing up cases...

so it its all forgotten about :/ and kept quite and that suits em no-end :/

by good grief. Sun Jul 18, 2004 21:27

there are many boys and girls in Irish society who's only employment option through the dark and dismal years of the Celtic Tiger has been reluctantly taking up a above average career with full pension and limited promotion possiblities in the reshaped and expanded Garda Siochana, where presently they are expecting new regulations to stop them in the future being subject to political prejudice or given directives which are solely political in nature.
This being the fine work of Minster Mc Dowell, who is good man, and only writes things like :- "you are a person whose deportation would, [[in the opinion of the]] Minister, be conducive to the common good' to a woman who's marriage has broken down.
And all for what? the good work of his immigration law, which this week garnered praise from the supreme wizard of the KKK and Mr Le Blanche of South Africa.

Good Grief!
This is might we reflect a mostly anarchist /libertarian site in tone and prejudice, we have more than once nodded and winked at the importance of representing minorites.
Please let us not give un-neccesary propaganda or space to the clear majority of hard working rank and file members of an increasingly para-militarised force which has gained less than 50% of young people's trust when polled, and twice in the last year attacked political protesters with water cannon and complete impunity.
Let us rather focus on the really bad Gardaí of both rank and file type who are corrupt and nasty types, and though being a small minority, won't even get stuck in at Shannon, and really let's be honest, deserve to have their metaphorical balls cut off.

fuckity fuck.

by Bruno, Bea and family Mon Jul 19, 2004 17:07

We agree with Deirdre, though the garda record regarding animal liberation does trouble us. Are those sniffer dogs actually expected to inhale?

Otherwise, we agree that it's a bad idea to generalise. Not everybody joins the gardai with bad motives - the system is the problem, not the gardai as individuals. It seems to be a case of not seeing the woods for the trees with some people.

by Ben Mon Jul 19, 2004 21:42

I agree with the above. I mean, just because it's an 'anarchist' site doesn't mean the level of the debate has to be at the undergraduate 'fascist pigs' level. I mean, really. McDowell is the person who should be ultimatley held accountable for failures in the system anyhow, not rank and file guards.

by oh my good good grief. Mon Jul 19, 2004 22:16

the 3 points of the article above:-

The Gardai are very unusual in modern day Europe that they are not subject to an independent inquiry board.

There is no properly empowered and independent ombusdman office to deal with Police complaints.

There is no redress for members of the public who are constantly harassed by the Police.

and two linked commercial print articles.

Since then, comments suggesting debte be raised, yet not a damn useful or interesting thing said other than "there are some nice cops you know".
Can't you do any better?

by Bridget Tue Jul 20, 2004 02:53

I think you're wrong. I think it's useful to ask for a proper analysis on the newswire. from what i can see the points made were that the criticism should look at the system and not the individuals. That's a fair point. and a useful point Nobody posting actually said the policing system was great.

It goes without saying that there should be an ombudsman. We don't need to be told that though. I mean, it's been plastered all over the media for the last while that we need an ombudsman and that there is corruption in the guards. None of the comments disputed this. They just asked for something more than meaningless slogans.

by dube Tue Jul 20, 2004 03:14

why hasn't it happened already and how do we make it happen

by andon Wed Jul 21, 2004 02:44

it's not possible to have a decent accountable police force in an indecent unaccountable government run state,
political justice does not exist .....here anyway

by Sean Cabog Wed Jul 21, 2004 04:51

Why not recruit more ban gardai and that would solve the emasculation problem?

by no! there's no shit in this one. been stirring and scraping - and not a bit of response. Wed Jul 21, 2004 18:21

Let's leave slogans and go "deep" and cultural-

is there some part of the Irish psyche that contributes to problematic policing?

After all the Irish were the first people to receive policing, thanks to Robert Peel.
And they contributed excessively to the formation of many North American Police forces in the XIX century. And now they enjoy demographic levels of policing which are far higher than any other comparable democracy in either the Republic or Northern Ireland where policing has long been paramilitarised at sharp contrast with the Garda Siochana who are routinely "unarmed".

Do any readers think the Gardaí need arms?

Do any readers think Ireland needs to go increasing Garda numbers?

Do any readers think the cultural and organisational problems of policing on either side of the border are comparable?

Do any readers think that the Gardaí are expected to deal with too many areas of law enforcement many of which impinge on other areas of judicial, political and security concerns?

Do any readers think the Gardai are paid too much?

Do any readers think the Gardaí are recruited in the right way?

Do any readers snog or offer any other type of romantic, sexual or small comforting assistance to the Gardai?

et cetera-

by paul c Thu Jul 22, 2004 15:07

well no its there ( hierachal) structure
its the same with the priest and the army too.... and people have had them a long time, the look the other way or furisously hide when things go belly up

its not unique to police forces

its not that expect them to go or consesus like, like:) but they just need those 3 boards and the army and priest too

its as simply as that