Us warplane flies Jolly Roger at Baldonnel

by grainne Thu Apr 15, 2004 13:17 raffs at ireland dot com Millpark, Castlebridge, Co Wexford (053) 59792

It beggers comprehension that the Irish government even paid lip service to the liberal peaceniks over the incident where an American C-130 flew a "Jolly Roger" Flag.

Do not the politicians in this country have better things to worry about? Like Overcrowded hospitals, schools in disrepair, public transport a shambles, alcohol fuelled violence, etc, etc, etc!!

by jolieje Sat Apr 03, 2004 05:24

ok kids. just to set some facts straight. miramar is a marine corps air station. MCAS. not an air force base (AFB), or a naval air station (NAS). and no, it's not an un-base, or defunct, or closed down. if you'd like proof, talk to one of the 1,000s of marines who work there every day. or check out http://www.miramar.usmc.mil/. a military base recognized on april 1, 2004 for installation excellence (whatever that means) probably does still exist. if the website includes a number for the families of marines from miramar serving overseas to call, there must be marines from miramar serving overseas. for god's sake, their band just joined a local high school band in a concert! these marines do apparently exist.

the c-130 hercules airplane is a cargo transporter. they fly people, packages, and fuel. the c-130 squadron at miramar is known as the raiders - their patch includes the skull and crossbones. it's a lot like the nfl football team from oakland, california. when they land at *any* airfield in *any* other country (not just ireland) the pilots and crew fly the jolly roger as a symbol of pride in their squadron and in their fellow pilots and crewmen. it is not a message indicating a desire to conquer a country or to pirate anything. it's no different from a sports team mascot for these guys.

trust me, this is not worth gaining status as an international incident. if you're worried about the actions of the american military, there are plenty of other directions in which to look.

by Lone Gunman Sat Apr 03, 2004 00:09

Could you please clarify your points to a thicko like me?
Ok the Irish served on both sides of the Napelonic war.And quite a few wars before that.Point being?And revelance to the pirate flag?
A paragraph on kids being bored?And one yawning listening to Dubya?So listening to any politican is boring.no matter what your age?
Relevance?
An article on somone who claims he was a CIA analyist who dealt with Tenet and the Prez?????Righhhhttt.
And all this has revelance to a C130 flying a flag in Baldonnell?
Whatever you are smoking buddy.i'll have some as well.

by I mac D. Fri Apr 02, 2004 15:37

as you know Lone Gun Man, Irish served on both sides of the Napoleonic Wars both militarily, culturaly, philosphically and why even some just cooked and invented new foods.
But you attempt to down grade the flag, by saying it is the banner of one US navy wing,
I think you ought realise it is the banner of more than one = "now".

Anyway our young friends tell us that pirates are boring, and they can only yawn at the prospect of more, coz like the special effects in the real world of power are just lame, and come nowhere near the Hollywood movies or computer games, and jeez why doesn't that man realise he's a monkey and stupid, and he aint got nothing to say to us, our parents, our teachers, our generals, our spies, our bankers. At least that's the message from the video of a one tired kid, who couldn't hide his yawn as he was stood on the pulpit to listen to Dubya in Orange County. [it's a nice image which has hit the newspapers on the mainland, did ye get it in Ireland?]

..."Man after his pop he's such a let down, he's damaging the reputation of the family"



at the link the thoughts of a 27year old CIA analyst on Dubya and how he obstructed the work of George Tenet. I thought you might be interested to read the words of one of your contemporaries.
http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/04/24/news-callahan.php

by Lone Gunman Fri Apr 02, 2004 00:09

other to show that any topic on Indymedia never stays on topic.That somthing as irrevelant as some cargo hauler flying a skull&crossbones can diverge into what a AFB can be called.Which is closed.BTW Mirramar is deact,not in use,kaputt.It is an Un base.So therefore Tims info is somwhat out of date...
Does it make a difference?Proably..because if the testosterone stoked officers are trained properly,or allowed to,the chances of less civilian casualities is improved.
Mecenaries; a professional who freelances in his chosen profession for money or reward.A military person for hire to fight for another army or country.First defination would seemingly apply to 98%of the working pouplation of the world.
Somthing us Irish are VERY GOOD at.
The Wild Geese being the best example.[No not the film BTW]

by AFB AFIK Thu Apr 01, 2004 21:10

No some are known as Naval Air Stations (NAS)
The deal with Miramar, big as it is, is that the US Navy (and Air Force) us it for lots of training, that's why they featured it in TOP GUN.

Anyhow, why is that important? makes no diff to the folk on the ground when the bombs drop.

by Lone Gunman Thu Apr 01, 2004 13:40

What would a grunts wife know about what the squidbait flies into?Funnily enough every day that I passed the main enterance of the base on the way to work .It said Mirramar AFB
[property of the US navy]. AFB is applied AFIK to ANY military airfield. Apart from the Marines maybe,they tend to crash rather than land. :}.Still and all I like the Corps,I had many good boozing sessions with them off base in Pendelton

Marines "Let me win your hearts &minds or I'll burn your fuckin huts down."
BTW the
" Jolly Roger "is a squadron logo of a US NAVY fighter wing .

by pirates we are we were we will be Thu Apr 01, 2004 13:15

"pirates of the Streets"
for their excellent rap collection.
been listeing to the radio out-takes.
Cool!
You Sir are more than a geezer,
pay your dealer,
it's useless dodging the duck,
and Brixton is Safe.

you know.
:-)

by Yossarian Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:11

..is that US military planes are stopping off in Dublin now as well as Shannon. The Jolly Roger showing is pretty irrelevant.
Drbinoche is correct when he states that the JR does not belong to any nationality and it has been used by anarchists in this and other countries as a symbol of disrespect towards authority.
Pirate communities were often populated by the outcasts of society and there are reports that, amidst all the rough and tumble, there was a strange sort of democracy there, more so than amongst "civilised" society, at least in certain cases. It was not altogether unusual for women to feature prominantly in crews viz. Grace O'Malley or Graunuaile, the pirate queen of the west of Ireland.

by Steve Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:00

"I think that flag might be toxic."

by USMCwife Thu Apr 01, 2004 07:21

First Miramar is not an AFB, it never was. Prior to it being a Marine Corps Air Station it was a NAVY Air Station...

Get your facts straight...

The flag is a symbol that represents that particular squadron, and nothing else. They fly it everywhere they land.

-wife of a US Marine

by Bin Uptoolong Thu Apr 01, 2004 04:45

"whats wrong with being mecenary?The Pope even has them since the 15th centuary.Called the swiss gaurd"

Perhaps you mean the "Swiss Guard". The fact that the papacy has them is sufficient reason to be opposed to them. And whats wrong with them is that their existence is inherently undemocratic, in that they are available to the highest bidder irrespective of how much or how little that bidder has in the country they are used in.

I must be cracking. I actually agree with Lone gunman about something! - Brendan O'Carroll. You can also include Brendan Grace in the "unfunny" category (and that other idiot whose name I have forgotten, his catchphrase was "Its the way that I tell them")

by almost a nerd Thu Apr 01, 2004 01:17

As far as i know due to dusty old maritime law and nice antique international laws it is in fact more or less illegal to fly the jolly roger and constitutes both an insult and threat, the only proper and legal (shaky ground, blow off the cobwebs)response to which is to attack/ seize by force the offending vessel, possibly some hanging could follow (a use for the spire), something which we could in theory do and be entirely within our rights, hmm doubtful.....
Also i wondered if the US militiary accompanying bush opened fire on civilians, would it constitute an attack on an EU state by an outside power, and just what the militiary response would be, i bet they wouldnt even stop them using our airports.
If only Jack Sparrow was our Taoiseach and we could replace mary hearney with errol flynn, oh what fun,

by Lone gunman Thu Apr 01, 2004 01:09

There are plenty of versions of the "Jolly Roger"
[not necessarilly anything by the most unfunniest DUB comedian,Brenadan O Carroll].
The Pirate flag was a customised flag effected by numerous different cut tthroats of different nationalities.It was the "gang color" of the day. Pirarcy was used by every nation as a means of adding to personal fortunes or or a states coffer.Nothing new there,whats wrong with being mecenary?The Pope even has them since the 15th centuary.Called the swiss gaurd

BTW A Mason the flag of the brotherhood is a square and dividers.Read up abit on them,you might learn somthing on them .

Intresting that anything is flying out of Mirramar AFB San Diego[where TOP GUN was filmed]. Since the navy shut it down in 1995.

by A . Mason Thu Apr 01, 2004 00:31

the skull and crossbones is the flag of Freemasonry.

by The Captain Wed Mar 31, 2004 23:48

Piracy was used by the British during the building of their empire. They could engage in more serious illegalities than a "regular" navy could. They were common mercenaries.

So it is interesting to see who the US forces hold in high esteem, not the Royal Navy, but a shower of cut throats and lowlife who had no respect whatsoever for human life or for any kind of civilised society.

by Drbinoche Wed Mar 31, 2004 23:06

Oh my good god, they are flying the Jolly Roger, you know what that means, they are sky pirates!!!!! What is the world coming to!! So they flew a flag from their plane, big fucking deal. Its a flag by the way that does not belong to any nationality, so you can't really get pissed at it.

I hope they were dropping off some of the new stuff the Army and the Garda are getting in over the next few weeks, we might have a nice display on for the Mayday bollox.

Oh and just so everyone knows, I am not a member of MI5 or MI6 as mentioned in a previous thread, but if you believe I am just coz I once served for this country then you surely have to question whether your beloved Ed Horgan is truthful or not. He could be a very deep active member of these units. Hell hes a perfect candidate.

by jh Wed Mar 31, 2004 20:58

but i had to this time as like many of you im slowly collecting a number of the heralds comedy headlines i have the sinister anarchist one and todays and the headless body found in bog one, i wonder if anyone could come up with what they have around actual mayday?

by Conor - SAucd Wed Mar 31, 2004 18:32

headline on the hearld!

maybe we can make that editors day by having a sinister riot on that us warplane with some sickos like john gilligan.

see if they could fit that in point 60 impact bold on the front page of the hearld

by Tim Wed Mar 31, 2004 18:19

you can clearly see the reg and the pods under the wings.

The pod nearest the end of the wing is for refuelling. It deploys the hose and drogue to refuel other aircraft while flying.
The 'pod' between engines 1 & 2 is just an extra fuel tank.

by Tim Wed Mar 31, 2004 18:07

It's a KC-130. It can be used for carrying cargo and also formid-air refuelling.
The aicraft pictured at Baldonnel, QB 0240 is from a squadron based in Miramar,California.
Another plane from that squadron was photographed at Shannon on a previous occassion, see link.

The letters QB on the tail identify it as being from the Marine Aerial Refueler Transport Squadron 352 (VMGR-352) aka "Raider" Squadron.

from their own website: "The mission of VMGR-352 is to provide aerial refueling service in support of Fleet Marine Force air operations; to provide assault air transport for personnel, equipment, and supplies; and to conduct other operations as may be directed."

In February 2002, the raiders deployed to Afghanistan where they provided fixed wing aerial refueling and logistical support
In 2003 they deployed to Bahrain as part of Bush's War for Iraqi Oil. "providing a vast amount of aerial refueling and assault support to coalition forces"

so... it's not the flag that does the killing, but it did make the headlines.
It's interesting about the nature of news,that the continuing use of Shannon by the military to kill people doesn't constitute news, but the raising of a flaq can make front page news.

The govt probably won't comment on this,but unlike Shannon, they cannot argue that the air corps at Casement 'needs the business'.