Anti War Protest Dublin

by Eoin Dubsky Sun Mar 21, 2004 13:14

Photo 1: Monopoly banners, St Stephen's Green, opposite the Dpt of Foreign Affairs building.

Photo 2: Senator David Norris and others reading the names of people killed my the US invasion of Iraq, beside US Embassy, Ballsbridge.

by Vernon Sun Mar 21, 2004 13:25

to all those who protested against the war. I could not attend as I had to work, but you spoke for me.

so cheers, and thanks again

by Badman Sun Mar 21, 2004 13:36

About 3000 hardy souls turned out on one of the stormiest days of the year to be led around dublin by a bunch of cynical politicians. The anti-war movement does not exist any more. There are no groups or movements anymore that are actually trying to do anything about the war and Ireland's complicity in it. There is no strategy, nothing beyond a few parties who realise that there is an anti-war feeling around and would like to turn it into votes. The few voices that were actually trying to do something about the war are in a confused and fragmented state.

At the moment, there is no anti-war movement in Ireland. Let's hope that one can reconsititute itself soon.

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Sun Mar 21, 2004 14:38

There is an anti-war movement in Ireland. It may not be the IAWM or the NGOs or Pana or just a mixture of these. The wider anti-war movement embraces all of them but also resides in the very live antiwar groups around the country and in the minds and hearts of many tens of thousands who are willing and ready to rally to any cause they believe can succeed in preventing war.
We can't afford to be discouraged by small numbers on a stormy anniversary, we can't afford cynicism - we should welcome supportive politicians who have proved their worth over the years even as we support the heroes and heroines of civil disobedience. We should welcome the differences in yesterday's speakers and attenders.
Let us go on doing our own little bits and pieces and be happy to come together when the occasion arises.
The movement against war is very much alive. Keep up your own good work, badman, - I really think I should call you "good man"

by Anon Sun Mar 21, 2004 16:51

This report was clearly written by a somewhat confused and deluded SWP member/supporter. Note that the photos are of the 'one solution-revolution' (SWP) section of the march and their Mao flags.

First of all, let us be honest: the march comprised about 3,000 people. 3,500 tops, and this despite the IAWM/SWP media onslaught - huge coverage on TV, in the daily newspapers (for the previous three days), and it was the main item on RTE radio news on the hour every hour on the day itself. Likewise, Aoife Ni F (SWP/IAWM) was interviewed on Morning Ireland on Thursday, and Colm Stephens (SWP/IAWM) had an article in Friday's Irish Times. Indeed, the Irish Times carried significant pieces on the demo for the three days beforehand.

So, still no tens of thousands and the government, needless to say, has not found itself "terrified" by the IAWM/SWP. Hmm. What's wrong?

A few things. Firstly, the bar has always been too high since February 15th, following which RBB and the SWP/IAWM completely lost the run of themselves, abandoning the need for strategy in favour of a vacous formulaic notion that mass marches, by themselves, in Dublin would win the anti-war. Well, they didn't. Moreover, this singleminded focus on one tactic caused them to sneer at, and undermine, those who correctly pointed out the importance of Shannon and argued for civil disobedience, blockades, etc., in conjunction with marches in Dublin. So, the SWP/IAWM hijacked the leadership of the anti-war movement, and then proceeded to offer no strategy other than a mindless reliance on one single tactic.

Secondly, the behaviour of the SWP pissed people off, mightedly, and the IAWM never broadened beyond being an SWP front. Recent resignations and disaffiliations have confirmed how much of a front it is.

Another factor, obviously (and this would take space to develop), has to do with an international downturn in anti-war activity. The reasons are manifold, including the apparent ease of the US invasion and the lack of immediate success of the anti-war movement. We haven't failed (this is a longterm project) but there is a sense of despondency out there at the moment that is shared by people in Ireland.

In the short to medium term, we need to build an infrastructure for the anti-war movement in Ireland. One that is genuinely inclusive and democratic, and leaves the IAWM/SWP firmly in the past.

by Another Anon Sun Mar 21, 2004 18:58

I would love if there had been 5,000, and it's good that RTE overestimated for once, rather than underestimated, the numbers. But I was there and, yes, it was 3,000-3,500 tops. I couldn't agree more with Anon. I have been put off going to demos by paper-selling SWP people many times. The one time I did relent and buy a paper, the man selling it immediately asked me whether I was interested in joining the party. This pisses me off, but I learned my lesson. I don't know much about the internal politics of the IAWM, but I did notice at the march that most of the people in those ridiculous yellow bibs were SWP people. Why must they police the movement and prevent others from taking ownership of it? The state does not feel threatened by people who do everything to police marches so that business as usual is not disrupted. Some revolutionaries. I was also offended by some of the speeches, particularly Brid Smith, who went on about everything but the war. It was blatantly an electioneering platform for her and Boyd Barrett - they didn't even bother to hide the fact that their agenda was to get votes in the local elections.

For us normal punters who want to support the anti-war cause, this is offputting.

by heckleteckle Sun Mar 21, 2004 19:40

Interesting to see Mary Lou McDonald of SF was getting hassle for her links to the IRA. I'm sure the SF leadership will be trying to keep the IRA links quiet in the run up to the June elections. They will also probably wanto to keep quiet about Mary Lou's previous memebership of the Fiana Fail national executive

by heckler on the ditch Sun Mar 21, 2004 20:40

Reference to SF meeting bush on his last trip to our fair isle. Also to SF meeting bush on paddys day. 'Guns' heckling featured on 'this week' radio programme on RTE. First time I've seen someone heckled at an anti-war protest. First time for an SFer on platform too?

by . - . Sun Mar 21, 2004 20:48

tis here - from fubar

by Simon Daly. - Individual. Sun Mar 21, 2004 20:57 Definately as above ! As Above...

I was in the crowd when Mary Lou McDonald was getting heckled - and I was'nt surprised , but the other politicians were using the march, as well , to raise their profile in the up-coming June elections . I think Mary lou was a bit shocked at the heckling - perhaps because in her last home (ie Fianna Fail) she would have been more used to been encouraged , in front of the (FF) crowd and then stabbed in the back by the same people moments later ,
On Saturday , she was "stabbed in the back" in a face-to-face meeting !

by Anothere Anon Anon Mon Mar 22, 2004 00:13

The tactic of marching in empty streets to closed government offices won nothing. The only concrete vicotries was the U.S. war plane that was turned around by Mary Kelly & Catholic Workers, the three US corporations transporting troops that pulled out of Ireland for quite a time fearful of more nvda at Shannon and recent rports of Raytheon sent packing by the FEIC'ers in Derry.

The IAWM was a victory in branding guaranteeing the SWP the media comment monopoly on anti-war activity (with PANA & NGO) and providing politicians with an ambulance chasing opportunity to raise their profiles pre-election.

Mary Lou was initially heckled for her careerism choosing between FF & SF on graduation - by a Republican who had spent many years in jail AND also for her leader meeting and greeting Bush while he was bombing Iraq.

At these events heckling seems the only option for the grassroots. Otherwise they serve as social occasions to catch up with old comrades. Yahoo for those who blockaded Top Oil.

It is Al Qaida and George Bush that have put the militarisation of Shannon back on the agenda not the Irish anti-war movement.

by Conor - SA ucd Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:30 conor at ziplip dot com

sorry to day it boys, but the iawm f**ked up in shannon last year.

the sp swp labour ect, showed their true colours by leaving direct action out.

i havnt posted here in 6+ months, but it saddens me that so many campaigns can by fuc*ed up by party politics, incl far left partys.

theres a lot of good people in the sp/swp , but those party structures will always be the most "counter revolutionary" forces outside the cops.

i guess papers need to be sold, numbers need to grow.

:-(

by Janus Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:28

5,000 is a mad estimate. The Garda estimate of 700 is equally mad. The truth is about 3-3,5000 tops as has been pointed out and I don't think that was too bad, better than I expected turning up to it I have to say.

I think if we view the march as a building mechanism towards opposing the Bush visit then it's a good start, gets a wee bit of momentum going and starts building links again. As for the hijacking of the IAWM by the SWP, yes it happened, get over it, they're not giving up their stranglehold on that organisation and are happy to see people leave to maintain their control. The issue NOW is not who controls the IAWM, but whether we let the SWP run the Stop Bush Campaign as well, and judging by the appearance of Rickie Barrett on A Week in Politics last nightm, that is an issue that requires immediate attention.

As for the abuse of Mary Lou, I thought it was idiotic, and if it was attacking her for having been on the FF National Executive, then based on lies. It just goes to show that people on the left are not above pursuing the agenda of the establishment when their narrow sectarian interests are at stake. I would have happily heckled Michael D (Who did make a good speech) for supporting social partnership, or David Norris for his strong support of Israel in the past if I knew it was allowed.

That said, while thinking Mary Lou got a hard time, SF should be slated for the lack of any placards or banners whatsoever on the march. It was curious because I saw SF members taking part, but no party stuff at all. Why take part without highlighting your presence?

by Anti War Activist Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:39

"That said, while thinking Mary Lou got a hard time, SF should be slated for the lack of any placards or banners whatsoever on the march."

Spot on Janus! But also isn't it strange that the RBB PR vehicle/IAWM issued a statement last week deriding Bertie for meeting the chimp in the White House but no mention of Adams also clamouring to be seen with him.
The good 'old smoke and mirrors' pro war on a Wednesday, anti war on a Saturday - cue Craig David.

by sally Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:44

If there is any reason why this anti-war campaign is dying is because you lot can even unite against an unjust war. Instead of heckling those who walk by your side and dedicate the whole debate to criticise SF you could consider to organise yourselves so the protest against Bush is not another laughing affair.
You are obviously pointing your heckling guns in the wrong direction, because the guy who allows the US to use Shannon as their plane patch is still prime minister of your country!!!
Sad

by Janus Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:56

Much as it would be nice, a united left approach on anything is doomed to failure, ESPECIALLY if we all agree. Then it's sheer bloody mayhem.

It would be nice to get some explanation as to the gaping lack of an SF presence on the march though, considering everyone else was there.

I doubt there was some order from on high not to be there, but it suggests they prioritised something else. What are the odds that SF people were told they'd be better off spending the day canvassing than in at the march?

On another matter, it seems the Bush visit is going to be really short. An article in today's Times suggesting he will be here for 12 hours is the second or third one I've read suggesting he will be here brifly.

by Boo Hoo Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:51

Mary Lou was a member of Fianna Fail that is FACT!

by Janus Mon Mar 22, 2004 13:01

But she was never a member of the party's National Executive as was claimed in another post it seems, and from the profiles of the woman in the Phoenix and elsewhere it seems she didn't join it for careerist reasons, turning down the chance to run as a candidate, but to push the agenda of the Irish National Congress.

by inc? Mon Mar 22, 2004 13:04

What is the Irish National Congress?

If she and SF is happy about her previous membership of FF will they be publishing it in her election literature?

by observer Mon Mar 22, 2004 13:18

It's no secret that Mary Lou was in FF. Neither she nor SF have denied it.

In fact there are a number of people who have joined SF from FF and obviously thousands of former FF voters who now vote SF, as there are from Labour.

There are also members of SF who were once in Labour, CP, WP, SP (when Militant) and of the micro groups, a former SDLP/Orange Order member, and even at least one former FG.

I think that is what happens when a party expands. It doesn't mean that those who join from other parties are opportunists.

by Gotcha Mon Mar 22, 2004 13:38

Anon, another anon, and another another anon all ONE person answering each 'others' boring sectarian questions!
1st anniversery of war and this is all you sad pathetic shower can talk about.

by VIDEOBLOC Mon Mar 22, 2004 14:04 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2004/03/287553.wmv

Video - Saturdays Anti War demo in Dublin
Over 6,000 marched despite the rain
speeker after speeker called for massive protests when G W BUSH visits IRELAND in JUNE 25/26..

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2004/03/287553.wmv

1 year on and the Iraq war goes on, every month 10,000 US troops travel through Shannon Airport, in the west of Ireland. Shannon is also the likley entry point for Bush, who is seeking favour with the 40 million Irish Americans in what could prove a close election.
We can make a difference ;)
VIDEO 7min Windows
---------------------------------------------------
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2004/03/287553.wmv

Dublin Sat 20th March 2004

PEACE

NO WAR NO BUSH

No Justice No Peace

Rainbow

by Shinner Mon Mar 22, 2004 14:43

Janus,
Sinn Fein candidates took part in anti racism training and a workshop on how to defeat the forthcoming referendum proposed by the government on Saturday morning. They also signed up to The Declaration of Intent on combating racism. Most of the candidates left this meeting and attended the march. In all about 18 of them took part. Also many rank and file members were present as they have been the whole way along. Reason for no banners, lets not make this party political. SWP and others who chose to heckle Mary Lou do the cause and indeed their own parties a disservice.

by Boo Hoo Mon Mar 22, 2004 14:48

"..(hecklers) do the cause and indeed their own parties a disservice"

That is not true. SF have a patchy record when it comes to opposing terrorist tactics as well as corporate America. This is being picked up by the press and being used to discredit the anti war movement. The fact that the heckling showed that not all anti war activists are at one with SF on these issues is a good thing.

Now Shinner, will you please answer me why is Mary Lou's FF past being kept secret?

by another anti-war activist Mon Mar 22, 2004 15:07

Anti War Activist
''isn't it strange that the RBB PR vehicle/IAWM issued a statement last week deriding Bertie for meeting the chimp in the White House but no mention of Adams also clamouring to be seen with him.''

Perhaps RBB/IAWM didn't mention Adams/SF at the white house because it has nothing to do with ending the war.

Demanding political purity is not how you build a coalition.

I'm no fan of RBB and the SWP and am sickened by how the IAWM has misled this movement, but at least they are not being distracted by internal Irish Left squabbles and keeping their eye on the subject - end Ireland's complicity in the war.

This requires a broad coalition - unfortunately, the IAWM is getting less-broad by the minute.

by shinner Mon Mar 22, 2004 15:13

its not being kept a secret. By the way most of the political parties in this country split from sinn fein. Nice to see that people are returning to their roots.
Anyone who knows Mary Lou and her politics knows why she split from FF. Do you read any newspapers or magazines about politics or do you limit yourself to this largely wothless forum.

by worker bill Mon Mar 22, 2004 15:15

"By the way most of the political parties in this country split from sinn fein"

The workers movement was never part of SF or any splits from SF

by funny haha Mon Mar 22, 2004 15:17

problem is that most of you do not work

by COPE ON' Mon Mar 22, 2004 15:45

What absolute rubbish. You Sir are a fool, nothing more, nothing less. One of these reds who sits at home in his bedroom posting under many diffrent names stopping the odd time to have a wank or contemplate the workers revelution, and how you will have real freinds then. I wont say anything further as your comments dont warrant debate.

by Mark - SP Mon Mar 22, 2004 17:22

If the cops had done the head count at 3 o clock sharp, they could well have come up with 700. I thought there was about 1000 there at that stage as the majority came late. The estimate of 3000 is probably about right.

by Canteen Kevin Mon Mar 22, 2004 18:03

Hebe; I typed in "housing crisis" into Fianna Fails search engine and guess how many matches I got?

by observer Mon Mar 22, 2004 18:24

Your failure to dsicover any references to "housing crisis" on FF site actually proves Hebe's point!

Think about it......

by John Mon Mar 22, 2004 18:53 dunaree2000 at yahoo dot com

Face facts, assholes! The war's over. America won. Might as well march behind pictures of Hitler calling for US troops out of Germany.

by Hebe Mon Mar 22, 2004 19:02

Tell that to the GIs that are still dieing in IRAQ.

by Ex-SWP - Non-affiliated Mon Mar 22, 2004 20:31

As an ex-member of the SWP, I am still encouraged by their willingness to represent themselves at demonstrations against the occupation of Iraq and the upcoming Bush visit. Something I would like to see more Irish left organisations subscribe to. However, as an ex-member of the SWP, I am well aware of the dangers of allowing SWP leadership to manipulate any campaign. This reinforces the need for other groups, the SP,Sinn Fein, Labour and anyone willing to denounce Bush's illegal war and unwanted visit. By withholding open organisational support for the anti-Bush sentiments, campaigners are essentially acting as recruiting agents for the SWP. This must end.
Though, I have not formally resigned from the SWP, I have withdrawn. First, because of their expulsion of members with Sinn Fein affiliations. Second, because I have been appalled at their inability to materialise any real results for all their rhetoric. Frankly, they are useless and offensive. Moreover, they are dangerous. and serve the interests of the state by dividing progressive movement. It is the SWP that has made the Irish Anti-War Movement irrelevant and has doomed any broad left coalition they are part of to failure. This is evident in their heckling of Sinn Fein on Saturday. Why is the SWP so affraid of Sinn Fein and Grassroots anyway?

by tired editor Mon Mar 22, 2004 22:24

other than an anti war report to troll and slander and attack each other for mostly electoral reasons.

by Max Robespierre Tue Mar 23, 2004 00:52

I'm not altogether convinced that the comment re the SWP is not genuine. As a member of the party who no longer attends their meetings due to the dictatorial tendencies the the party's political committee I acknowledge that a lot of what is said in th above post is true. I believe I know who it is that was expelled from the party due to SF affiliation and the whole event was a real fiasco. It is important to address the party that has so blatantly taken over the IAWM in a most hostile manner. At a time when the left requires unity, with Bush's visit not far away, the SWP through its tactics and sectarianism has given rise to greater disunity. The sectarianism present in the SWP is one of the reasons why I decided to distance myself from the party but I maintain that it is a problem that is not confined to the SWP. The SP, SF, Labour, Greens and different anarchist groups are all extremely hostile to one another. The problems that resulted from the steering committee of the IAWM need to be resolved and an umbrella group incorporating all and not dominated by any one party or group must be established. To label this criticism as nothing but trolling by SP of SF supporters is to ignore the consistent problems that the anti-war movement in this country has faced since it first began. No group should seek to profit from the death of innocents. This, however, will not be the case. Political parties will seek to engage in whichever activities they believe will bring them more support and more votes. To maintain that any political party is not interested in votes is the most ridiculous notion that can be put forward. If rank and file members of any political party believe this can be the case then all that can be said is that the leaders of that group have done an excellent job in carefully indoctrinating their followers and leading them to believe the unbelievable. With the 'leader of the free world' on his way here all our energies should be focused on providing a proper welcome to him. What this means is that we must look critically at all the players involved in the recent anti war movement and look to improve where we have made mistakes in the past. Unity is what is needed but if we do not acknowledge the mistakes of the past, progress in our ultimate aim will never be made.

by Euro voter Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:48

I believe that Richard Boyd Barrett particularly after watching Q & A last night should run for the European elections. He is identified as the leading figure of that movement and would provide an outlet for those dissatisfied with Ireland's complicitness with the US war machine.

by Euro pundit Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:20

So you think RBB should stand against Joe Higgins?

Joe Higgins is just as well known as RBB as an opponant of the war, Joe unlike RBB actually has a very good record in fighting for the working class. Joe is a better candidate. If RBB stood he'd get about 2,000 votes max while Joe H should get 20,000 +

by Euro voter Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:57

I do think that RBB should run, not necessarily against Joe. I don't think that Joe has a monopoly on running. I haven't seen the SP attempt to unite the forces of the left in Joe's Euro bid. In fact I think that they have been quite arrogant in looking for their anti-bin tax slate for the locals while saying nothing about Joes Euro bid.
At least RBB would be running on a clear anti war platform and would have the support of IAWM groups throughout Dublin.

by GER dUBLIN 5 - NONE Tue Mar 23, 2004 16:48 GERPLUS3 at EIRCOM dot NET 01 8471607

Calm down everybody.
We are 3 Months away from a Bush visit. .
It is important that we maximise protest.
But what do we get - A tirade of mails slagging off this group and that group on the left.
We do not have the luxury of this nit picking,banal, "more lefty than thou "attiitude exhibited.
Cop yourselves on the lot of you.
Debates and splits are an excuse for inaction- a cop out.
If you want people to protest against Bush tell them why and tell them how.
Whether its hello Mary Lou or goodbye RBB is immaterial.
im off for a lie down now.
Ger

by k Tue Mar 23, 2004 18:28

Ger, the bickering debate over parties involved in the irish anti war movement (small letters) boils down to tactics and actions & statements that have happened in the past. The abuse meted out to certain parties is because they have acted in ways that basically destroyed any muscle the anti war movement may have had - including slating other groups who were committed to direct action, pandering to the media, and playing the game of "good protester, bad protester" that the state & media get going in order to wedge us apart.

There are efforts underway to restart a general anti war network in Ireland, provisionally called the IAWN (too close to the name of the SWP rump now if you ask me) which will hopefully have a more democratic process and base itself towards more MEANINGFUL actions. These not necessarily be direct actions all the time - but marching around town on a wet Saturday to empty Government offices is not a meaningful action, nor will marching around Dublin when George Bush is 150 miles away be any use either.

I am guessing that you are a relatively new reader of Indymedia (I would suggest that you NEVER put your email address or phone number on the website - there are Nazis out there reading this site who will abuse this information) but this sort of thread is commonplace... we love bitching about each other in the comments. You'll grow to love it, or hate it.

by pandoras boc Tue Mar 23, 2004 19:00

why did the groups enter in partnership with the swp in the first place?

by Irrus Tue Mar 23, 2004 22:56

Go away and grow up the lot of ye.

How many of ye protested against IRA/UVF murders in the north?

How many protested against Russia, Cuba, Cambodia and China in the past?

Funny how all the baddies are on one side?

SF protesting on peace? Don't make me laugh they are the fasicsts.

by Former Member of Fianna Fail Ard Comhairle Thu Mar 25, 2004 16:41

I sat on the FF National Executive with Mary Lou, although I left before she did (I went to the PDs, she went the other direction)

When she was on the exec her politics were those of a Shinner anyway. She was never a real FFer, just an ambitious kid looking for the quickest route into the Dail.

If I was a leftie I wouldn't hate her.

On the subject of the Anti-War-movement, I haven't really got a lot to say, except that ye keep playing into our hands. The man on the street may hate Bush, (albeit irrationally), but he hates commies even more, and the media are well adept at portraying ye as that. You lot rode the Iraq war wave well, - if there has been an election in June last year you may have had an effect, but now you're just pissing people off.

Pack it in lads.

by OBSERVER Fri Mar 26, 2004 00:02

You were obviously drunk because she was never on the NEC! - As for ambition, leaving FF to stand in Dublin West for SF, what an opportunist!! BTW, no member of the FF NEC has resigned and joined the PDS in the last 10 years :)

Tomorrow: Mary Lou is a twelve foot lizard

by cooleyboyo Fri Mar 26, 2004 00:43

Some of us around here are from Tom Oliver Country . . and we did protest