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How not to become a welfare tourist !

category international | eu | news report author Sunday February 29, 2004 22:04author by Fergusauthor email newsforthedeaf at yahoo dot com Report this post to the editors

Substantial work has been done by each Presidency since 1999 in their examination of this proposal and the Irish Presidency will actively continue the process of reform with the aim of reaching agreement with the European Parliament before the end of the Parliaments term in May 2004.
In addition the Irish Presidency in co-operation with the Hungarian govt., will host a conference in Budapest in May 2004 involving all 25 member states.
This conference will address both the implications of the reform of (EEC)1408/71 for all member states and the particular implementation challenges facing the new Member states.
This will be among the 1st EU Social Policy Conferences to take place after the formal accession of the new member states."

I too can become a "welfare tourist"
under European Regulation (EEC)1408/71
The EU law on "Co-ordination of Social Security Systems within the Union" allows me to transfer my dole from, say 'Bettystown - Ireland' to the 'Costa del Sol - Spain', for three months to [get a tan] look for work.
Under the current law, after May 1st I'll be able to extend my 'holiday destinations' to the EU accession countries + vica versa


But govt. rednecks don't like tans.
The UK govt. have already researched the option of denying welfare to anyone who has not lived in Britain for at least two years.
BUT the European Commission has told 10 Downing Street that Britain must either accept workers as full citizens or join mainland Europe in denying them work permits for up to seven years.
It is illegal to grant "work-only" status to migrants and asking them to pay taxes while denying use of the NHS and unemployment benefit. (1)


With the spirit of EU enlargement recently shrinking (2)
+ to get the Conservative opposition off it's back?
On Monday 23rd Feb. the British govt. vaguely outlined how they would discriminate against immigrants from EU accession countries - "If you Register, you can come to the UK to work legally and contribute but you cannot claim benefits." (3)

~However, Keith Vaz, Labour MP and former European Minister dismissed plans for a Work Register.
"doing all this at the last minute is just unnecessary because we've known about this for seven years.
It is totally unnecessary, you see the home office in Britain cannot cope with this registration scheme because there is already a substantial backlog of thousands of cases that have not been dealt with, having new restrictions like this, you know at the last minute is not really going to be the answer." (4)

Antonia Mochan, European Commission, Employment & Social Affairs spokesperson suggested -
"It would appear that by setting up a special register just for people from the new member states, Britain is in breach". (5)


~On Monday, Home (sweet home) Secretary, David Blunkett also threatened -

"You work, you get the entitlement; you don't work, you sustain yourself as a visitor in other ways, and if you become destitute you go back to your own country.
If they lose their job and they do not find another one, then they are not entitled to any of the work-related support... and they return home." (6)


~But.

Under EU law countries cannot discriminate against people from other member states. "They must apply exactly the same regulations to people from other member states as they apply to their own nationals,"

However, Ms. Mochan said she believed that action would most likely be taken first by an individual [not a wave, influx or horde !] from one of the new members who considered he was being discriminated against. (5)



~London Calling, to the imitation zone...

Following Blunkett's claims, Fianna Fail Deputy, Conor Lenihan, speaking from London quickly turned up on RTE radio -

RTE> You've taken an interest in this particular issue, do you think that after David Blunketts announcement today it's inevitable that something similar will be introduced here?

"... traditionally we have mirrored in Ireland, changes in relation to labour law, social welfare requirements specifically in the area of migration because of the single travel area that exists between the UK and Ireland." (7)



~That evening the Irish govt. released sound bites for the media to play with -

Taoiseach -
"I think we will have to do certain things on the social welfare aspect of it, but not on the LABOUR MARKET side of things."

Michael McDowell, Justice Minister -
"I believe it is probable that we will take some pre-emptive steps to make sure that our social welfare system cannot be undermined by abusive use of the right to come here." (3)



~Note: One way of dealing with the 'right to equality' has been to 'equally take away the right'.

Questioned on an RTE radio feature on May 1st enlargement, "one of Ireland's leading economists" [and incidentally, brother of the Justice Minister] outlined his answer -

The difficulty is this - that we're in this community , there is a set of rules (such as 1408/71), which means that we must abide by them, we have a liberal social welfare regime, we are also constitutionally bound in terms of immigration by the Good Friday Agreement and we now find ourselves with people coming in, possibly looking for social welfare, and we will have a choice between either accommodating them or changing the rules for social welfare for EVERYBODY.

Now there will be some people and I will be one of those saying maybe we should contemplate that..." (8)



~On Tuesday 24th at a Cabinet meeting, the govt. 'contemplated' EU enlargement and ways of retreating from EU social policy agreements.



~On Wednesday morning Mary Coughlin, Minister for Social & Family Affairs was questioned on RTE radio -
"We have to look at what eh... Examine carefully what the British have said. I've spoken to my counterpart Andrew Smith [British Secretary of State for Work & Pensions] he has indicated to me what he proposes to look at.

We will evaluate that, I've spoken to my colleagues at Cabinet on the matter and on the measures and eh... We will be within the confines of the Social Welfare Bill introducing changes. I prefer not to say those changes...

RTE > I don't expect you to give the details [?] but will they resemble the British?

"They won't be alien to them or far away from them, but we have different situations. The UK have habitual residence... requirements, we do not."

>Will we have, would you propose to have?

"I certainly would have to say those are considerations that are being examined between myself and the Minister for Justice."

>Is it likely that we would have those?

"Eh... we're not sure because we have to evaluate specifically how this will impact on our own people and other EU nationals... and what we're entitled to do within the accession treaty..."

"What we are saying is that people who are inactive, the INACTIVE group, are not entitled to come here regardless of where they come from if they are a burden on the state."

"I have evaluated what the British have said. I will with my colleagues in Cabinet make a determination after Cabinet hopefully on Tuesday [2nd March] and specifically outline what these issues will be."

"I think it's important to differentiate between INACTIVE and ACTIVE persons.

ACTIVE persons will in working here obtain their benefits, will accrue benefits as a consequence of their participation in the labour force." (9)

~Sound familiar ?

"You work, you get the entitlement... and if you become destitute you go back to your own country." - UK Home Secretary, David Blunkett. (6)


~It also sounds illegal - under 'current' EU laws.


~But.

~Up to now, I haven't heard any politician talk about the "priority" of changing 'current' laws -

Minister Coughlin (along with the Irish Ministers of Health & Children, Labour Affairs and Equality ) are part of the - 'Employment, Social Policy, Health & Consumer Affairs Council.'

And one of their priorities is the reform of Regulation (EEC) 1408/71.

'Co-ordination of Social Security for Migrant Workers' "...In 1998 the EU Commission recognised the need for reform of the Regulation and presented a proposal to simplify and modernise the provisions of the Regulation.

Substantial work has been done by each Presidency since 1999 in their examination of this proposal and the Irish Presidency will actively continue the process of reform with the aim of reaching agreement with the European Parliament before the end of the Parliaments term in May 2004.
In addition the Irish Presidency in co-operation with the Hungarian govt., will host a conference in Budapest in May 2004 involving all 25 member states.
This conference will address both the implications of the reform of (EEC)1408/71 for all member states and the particular implementation challenges facing the new Member states.
This will be among the 1st EU Social Policy Conferences to take place after the formal accession of the new member states." (10)


~I've been paying attention and I haven't heard any mention of reform of Regulation (EEC) 1408/71 in any of the mainstream radio interviews, newspaper columns, television reports etc.

Why not ?

Isn't this planned reform in Budapest the answer to [who's ?] fears of welfare tourism ?


Speculation (Health warning !)

Is it because the govt. first wants to reform the Irish Social Welfare system by introducing 'habitual residence' and more "eligibility criteria".(with immigration as the excuse)
Once that's done - without any argument - then reform (EEC)1408/71 ?

I'll be interested to hear what the Minister of Family & Social Affairs decides on Tuesday 2nd of March.



References

(1) 'The Business', 'Blair plans to deny welfare to jobless immigrants', Sat/Sun. 15/16th Feb.

(2) EU Enlargement - access to Ireland is on a contingency basis.' http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.phpstory_id=63300

(3) Irish Times, Tues. 24th Feb.

(4) Keith Vaz, interviewed on RTE Radio 1, 'Morning Ireland', Tues 24th Feb.

(5) 'Cork Examiner', Tues. 24th Feb.

(6)http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,11026,1154921,00.html

(7) Conor Lenihan (member of the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body) interviewed on RTE Radio 1, '5-7 Live', Mon. 23rd Feb.

(8) Moore McDowell, interviewed on RTE Radio 1, 'The Sunday Show', Sun. 8th Feb. http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.phpstory_id=63413

(9) Mary Coughlin, interviewed on 'Morning Ireland', Wed. 25th Feb

(10) Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs. http://www.eu2004.ie/templates/standard.asp?sNavlocator=4,21

Presidency Priorities Paper in the Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council - http://www.eu2004.ie/templates/document_file.asp?id=2351

Related Link: http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.phpstory_id=63364
author by Dermot Lpublication date Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Couldn't really follow all that was going on in the media with relation to the Government's intended changes so this analysis is really worthwhile. Interesting to see where next this goes?

author by ego sci fipublication date Mon Mar 01, 2004 16:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

you will find the links (the complete text was edited because I over did it that day) to the complete social security entitlements in the EU and beyond.
You will find that transferring your dole to costa del sol isn't quite as easy as regulation (EEC)1408/71at first reading suggests.

This move to tighten social security is a pan-european union policy. As an example of percieved abuse, consider this: The official cencus for Catalonia is 6 million, but the official list of medical cards is 7million. There are an extra million people who use the free pharmacy and free doctor, but not the dentist. It is thought that most of these extra million are in fact from France or Germany with of course British who have second homes in the region but have not taken official residency. It is difficult to argue that we should continue a system which allows for more affluent euro-citizens to avail of poorer euro-region's health and social security services in this way, we ought rather argue a pan-european consistency. Rather like a pan-european minimum wage, and stuff like that.
Same problems different perspective better solution.

Related Link: http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=62842&search_text=magic%20figure
author by %-)publication date Mon Mar 01, 2004 16:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

%-)
Lisbon. Bertie loves Lisbon. don't you Bertie.
Always going on about Lisbon is Bertie, you'd think it was his idea or something.

Related Link: http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/2002-2003/europe/index.html
author by Ferguspublication date Wed Mar 03, 2004 22:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

In fact I can't transfer my "dole" but I can transfer my "stamps".

One feature of Social Welfare BENEFIT in Ireland is that if you’ve been receiving this type of unemployment payment for at least 4 weeks and you want to go to a country covered by EC Regulations to look for work, you can receive payments of this benefit abroad for 3 months.

Ie the weekly payment of 134 euro can be transferred eg to the costa del sol

But with the accession countries joining on May 1st, there is the option of potentially transferring your 134 euro to eg to Bulgaria, where that money would go a long way.

Govt. rednecks don’t want people emigrating to get a ‘luxurious tan’.

I’m speculating that because of this potential situation, one of the priorities of the ‘Employment, Social Policy, Health & Consumer Affairs Council, is to reform (EEC)1408/71

The phrase “welfare tourist” also seems to make more sense if it’s thought of in terms of - EMIGRATING Irish unemployment BENEFIT tourists.

However this potential situation of a ‘luxurious tan’ only applies for BENEFIT.

If you receive ASSISTANCE (dole)

Social Insurance and EC Regulations
Ensure that:
You receive the same treatment in social security matters as nationals of the country where you go to work – in the European Economic Area (EEA).

Eg. EMIGRATING Irish unemployment ASSISTANCE tourists – would only be entitled to the Bulgarian rate of social welfare, ie f..k all.

But in this case govt, rednecks apparent concern is -
IMMIGRATING accession unemployment ASSISTANCE tourists – to whom 134 euro a week might seem more than ’f..k-all’

However, I’m speculating that the real concern of govt. rednecks is to cutback ASSISTANCE payments for EVERYBODY.

Even though the reality is that in Ireland - 134 euro really is ‘f..k all’ with the high cost of living here.


But, those govts. that are backed by big business (in particular the US, UK & Dutch…) are currently selling an ideology called ‘Making Work Pay’ - to all EU govts.

The vocabulary of this big idea uses words like ‘ACTIVE’, ‘INACTIVE’ and “benefit eligibility” .
Words [indoctrination] that the Irish Social & Family Affairs Minister seems to have bought and adopted (see story above).

Here’s the business view of social welfare -
"Particularly in regions with low average wages, unemployment benefits and social assistance benefits tend to have disincentive effects on active job search of their recipients particularly those with potentially low income."

And business is predicting wage costs in Ireland will go down due to immigration.




I don’t know if the move to tighten social welfare is only a “pan-European policy”.

After the recent Blair/Chirac/Schroder meeting the German media warned that - its either an “Atlantic-Europe” or “No- Europe”.

I’m thinking ‘Fortress Europe’ might be a bit of a misnomer.

Instead, EU Enlargement might be looked at in terms of a ‘Schengen Agreement Bloc’.

http://www.eu2004/templates/standard.asp?sNavlocator=4,20,307

Now Ireland and Britain aren't official full members of Schengen but as far as I know they have signed up to certain parts of it


Ireland – one of the ‘avant garde’ of enlargement, moving towards a US style social welfare system – with the rest of ‘Old Europe’ to follow?

Related Link: http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=63681
author by %-)publication date Thu Mar 04, 2004 00:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Lol. ;-) :-)
things is they put the stamps (postage stamps) up here by a centimo every few months without bothering to make any sort of official announcement and loads of my "prisoner of conscience" postcards don't get delivered because of that. bastards.
so where do you reckon is best for a €uro-dole-y?

author by -publication date Fri Mar 05, 2004 16:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

21,000.
Job creation in the dependent territories, commonwealth states, and associated republics of the US. for month of February :-
24
Job Creation in the occupied state of Iraq by the U.S. for month of February :-
loads really they've never had it so good.

Is namhaid an cheird gan í a fhoghlaim.

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