Shannon Warport update.

by Tim Mon Feb 23, 2004 21:02

not the airport.

by DMAN Mon Feb 23, 2004 21:59

Keep up the good work !

by Lone Gunman Mon Feb 23, 2004 22:08

As an EX paid killer for pay[AKA member of an army]
You seem to have forgotten the basics of putting together an intelligence report.
Who,what,when where,how,many.
Makes for better and professional reporting.the emotive comments and propaganda do you no favours.

Err.Isnt it more likely Tim that the fighters would be now likely based closer to Iraq to go on their bombing missions.Like Saudi or on a carrier in the Gulf or the Med?Could you supply please a recent link to an airstrike in Iraq?Like within the last month?I,and the worlds media must have missed that one.
Funny thing about that road at the back of the airport.
Alot of the Shannon natives still use it every day with no problems!So what gives?Are you saying a public road is being closed down anytime you plane spotters show up?

by R Isible Mon Feb 23, 2004 22:34

What exactly are you asking for? Are you asking for proof that fighter jets passed through Shannon?

You've been around this site long enough to know that the transport of troops and munitions and other logistical supports through Shannon are considered to be aiding and abetting the US military and that Ireland is thus acting as a complicit party in this and not a neutral one.

This has been explained to you many times before. Are you pretending not to understand this (again) or do you have an actual new question?

by Edward Horgan - PANA, Peace and Neutrality Alliance Mon Feb 23, 2004 23:12

Lone gunman seems confused with his peace activists, and his armies, and his knowledge of Middle Eastern affairs, and even his military affairs, not to mention his confused knowledge of the back roads around Shannon, some closed, some open.

by Black Pope supporter Tue Feb 24, 2004 08:57

Tim, most, in fact nearly all of what you say is true.
The road to which you refer is now officially airport property, I have checked it out and the council has signed it over to the airport. Mind you, the new viewing area is a disgrace. Youn cant see planes coming in from the 24 end because of the tress, clowns all.
There were signs on the back road behind SIFA warning about the new gate some langer was too pissed and drove through them in broad daylight. He didn't pursue it with the council and there was no settlement. You are doing a good job Tim, but just the facts in future please.

by Lone gunman Tue Feb 24, 2004 14:18

Ex Komdt Ed[my apologies to you both for getting you confused.You both pontificate so much the same propaganda it is abit confusing] described his article as a "report"

A report is Factual.Put on the lines of Who,What, Where, When,Why,how and Many.
Adding emotive wording,andself opinion factual or otherwise,makes for harder reading and making the author who obvisouly doesnt know much about the aircraft he is reporting on look like an idiot.

Facts are folks you are REALLY deludeing yourselves if you think you are living in a "neutral" country.Personally I couldnt care less if there was a squradron of F18s based out there and the airport was a USAF base.Money talks ,peace&neutrality walks.
No matter how much raving and frothing at the airport or in your bought & paid for press and media you do.You aint going to change it ONE ioata so long as Uncle Sam if footing the bill for the use of the field.Which is about the only profitable income out here.Since Dublin is trying to hog everything as usual.


As for not knowing much about military affairs well Ed.Maybe you should teach your outfit somthing about proper report writing. Would you have accepted a observation/intell report like that?Proably.

by Anonymous Tue Feb 24, 2004 15:29

Great work, as usual, Tim. Many thanks for your update.

Lone Gunman,

"Constitutionally" we are a neutral country.

If the government of the land will not uphold the constitution of the country - are we the people just supposed to sit back and let them do whatever they want to do? - Especially when their actions are abetting the killing of thousands (you saw how horrendrous it is when just 5 of our own people get killed) of innocent people.

You might answer we can vote them out - but this issue is only one of many and most citizens do not care enuf to make too much of a fuss about it.

The government cannot be allowed to do whatever it wants to do. It is bound by the constitution of the people.

Best regards,

by maalox - several unarmed men Tue Feb 24, 2004 18:31

Combat aircraft are a rarity. They usually just pass transport aircraft carrying troops and/or munitions through. Of course they are BASED in theatre, but they have to get from the US to Bulgaria, Turkey, Diego Garcia and Qatar somehow You must know that the US, as per OBL's demands, are moving all their forces out of Saudi, and have been since before last year's war. And as for the "recent link to an airstrike in Iraq?", i believe that the bulk of the combat aircraft are in use in Afganistan, which is still effectively at war outside Kabul.

by Lone gunman Tue Feb 24, 2004 21:01

If you think ANY govt and especially the Irish govt is beholden to its people,you are more naive than I would give you credit for!!
Any govt has broken its constitution to suit its own agenda.
Ireland;
neutrality,has never been neutral since ww2,where it allowed covert repatriation of allied personel to NI.Yet never allowed the AxisPOWs the same freedom to escape.
Has allowed NATO to instal backdoor radar defence in the cold war on Irish soil,places like Woodcock hill,Gabriel hill,which was blown up by the INLA in the Eighties.Ireland has also allowed the transport of Russian equipment to Cuba and Africa via Shannon.
Money is the talker here.Dollars or Russian Avgas.Thats how Aeroflot is paying in Shannon
Lets see other examples I can give you in day to day life.
Education;the downes syndrome kids having to fight for education which they are graunteed under the constitution.
Freedom of expression &opinion. Remember Section 30 of the Broadcasting act?
In an utopian world we would all obey our laws our govts would do what they are supposed to do and we would be all happy.In reality,life and human nature interfers.money,political expediancy,votes gaining&losing cynicsim and indifference overrules lofty ideals.
For us to be truely neutral,we would have to be a country that could ward off militarily,and ecnomically any outside aggression.Somthing on the line of Switzerland.

[At this point i would like to ask Ex Comdt Ed;What is ,or was the plan for Ireland if we were ever to be invaded by the,Russia ,US,or the UK in the event of ww3?This must have been thought about.Or was it going to be;we meet the invading force and say "hiya lads.we are neutral Yknow.Could ye all go somwhere else please.But any chance of an oul job?"]

You are right,we the Irish people dont give a toss about Shannon,or very much else for that matter.Why should we?The US is paying God knows how much to the Irish govt in monies and "favours" to use it.We are making money out of multi national capitalist companies in Ireland which allow us to survive in this overpriced corrupt rock. We arent being bombed or live under a dictatorship.Altho we are going that way under Furher Bertie.So why should the man in the street give a toss what is happening in Afghanistan or Iraq?We didnt care much when we were blowing the shit out of each other in N ireland,until it arrived in Dublin.Cynical?No just realistic.

Malox
true the US is pulling out of Saudi for the following reasons;
The bases were only brought up to full strength when gulf war 1 occured and the Saudis were worried that Saddo was going to be in Riadah by the time he had finished with Kuwait.
[Which incidently has more fighter bases than Saudi and no one is leaving there too quickly]. getting the planes there?Well carrier them there fly them there,refueling via tankers from Weisbaden,or Mildenhall perhaps.?

Thatere of operations has moved to Iraq and Afghanistan,so it makes more sense to have your aircraft closer to the operations than having them three hours plus flying time away.Pre GW2 it made sense to have the aircraft and ground forces closer to iraq to enforce the UN sanctions.

Terrorist threat?Somwhere down the list of pirority,like after having moved the coke machines upfront!
War zone outside Kabul?Goodness me,where is that happening?Apart from the shooting down of an unarmed civillian chopper carrying aid workers who wanted to build a school .I havent heard of very many ferocious style Tet offensives from OBL or his Taliban boys.Maybe I missed somthing?

by Amused Tue Feb 24, 2004 21:02

“record details”
“Recently spotted at Shannon”
“Also spotted”
“At 11:20”
“At 12:05”
“continued to observe the airport through our binoculars”.
“We watched and noted”
“Having seen all we needed"

I mean what the hell are you doing wasting your time hanging around Shannon spotting planes and writing down all these observations?
Are you going to testify to some Warren Commission?
Are you going to be there on a stand behind a microphone as flash bulbs exploded and your point your finger at Bush and Blair as they stand trial for freeing 50 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan from tyranny?

by iosaf Tue Feb 24, 2004 23:27

3 little thingys:-
first thingy:- Axis prisoners were afforded as much opportunity as Allied prisoners to escape, if that is the interpretation to be put on the common practise of allowing all WW2 POWs to wander around the Curragh at will. If you enter Stephen's Green at the Leeson Street end you will find the German Government's monument thanking the gov. of Eire for such nice treatment of it's prisoners and merchant naval personel during the emergency. If more allied prisoners made it back to join their units, it is only because the emergency state of Eire shared a border with Northern Ireland which was actively commited to the allied war effort. The little myth you spread is as dangerous as the equivalent unionist myth, that emergency ireland surviving on an average third of UK rations at the time, somehow thought to refuel Nazi submarines. It is a lie and a myth.
2nd thingy:-
Switzerland has never tested it's neutrality in a miltary sense, Swiss military have acted at various times in other European theatres of interest most notably Italy but at no stage have they fought a defensive war, thus their capablility to defend themselves is unproven. Nor can we really accept that simply because "lots of money" is hidden away in Switzerland, somehow the swiss are above war. It would take less than a week to transfer all such accounts to Lichtenstein. What really has kept the Swiss out of war, is the convenience of their neutral zone, rather like "pax" in a schoolyard game of tag. It's helpful to have a hideaway. Ireland only exercise such a role in the immediate post WW2 period until 1947 during which we assisted many "paperclip" and "non-paperclip" former employees of the 3rd Reich find new homes, names and careers in mostly North and South America.
3rd thingy:- (I'm indulging myself)
the accepted plan for Irish defence in the very unlikely event of "nuclear war" was to "lose" quickly followed by extended guerilla warfare against the invader. This is the favoured option of military weak states facing aggression from larger more powerful foes.
You may think of such examples as occupied France under both the maquis and De Gaulle's free french, Greece 1944-1945 under two different factions both stocked by the ever wise British, Vietnam, or indeed contemporary Iraq.
4th thingy (slightly personal- being a pacifist I don't really like guns or gunmen, so I need to ask you; Why do you call yourself a "lone gunman"?)

by eeekkk Wed Feb 25, 2004 00:07

named after a kennedy assasination theory/phrase?

by Grassy Troll Wed Feb 25, 2004 02:20

The US army in Iraq , who are a bunch of losing failures, are at present trying to carry out the rotation of 120,000 sandbaggers. Peaking in a week or two.

by All praise OBL Wed Feb 25, 2004 02:34

I hear the body bags are being flown back to the US through Shannon. The newly liberated Iraqis are blowing the shit out of them day and daily while they delude themselves they are winning . Ha ha. Winning like Viet Nam ha ha ha

Sure isn't the US great. They're not a bunch of half baked wannabe warriors with fat bellies getting their arses kicked by Mohammeds Army. No way, they're the world's No.1 superpower about to put men on Mars!

HA HA HA

by R Isible Wed Feb 25, 2004 03:41

I can only assume that the person writing this is trying to smear the Irish Anti-War Movement by seeming to associate themself with them.

The PEOPLE coming back in the body bags are humans that went into the army for a variety of reasons. Some of them may be morally guilty of supporting Bush, the war etc but that doesn't mean they deserve to die.

Your "praise" of OBL and guff about "Mohammed's Army" are also obviously either a cynical attempt to smear those that are against this illegal war and occupation or else the deluded ravings of a nutter.

Stay off the internet and stick to poison pen letters scrawled in green ink and screaming at the little children in your neighbourhood.

The fact that the USA is steadily and surely facing mounting casualties doesn't mean that they're losing the war, only that the price paid in human blood mounts higher. That's not a cause for celebration.

by Anon Wed Feb 25, 2004 04:01

I don't actually see any mention of the IAWM in the disgusting posting about body bags. Anyway, that group is fairly sharp at discrediting themselves and hardly needs help. I reckon R Isible intended using lower case not caps: the Irish anti-war movement. Different thing entirely.

by seaners Wed Feb 25, 2004 07:51

US objective in Vietnam- stop formation of a functioning economy and society that doesn't conform to US economic interests, and provides a potential example for other states to follow.
Mission - achieved. Country destroyed for at least thirty years, no hope of successful reconstruction without conforming to the empire's wishes.
Human Cost - think anyone in the US elite ever gave a fuck?

by All praise OBL Wed Feb 25, 2004 08:40

Not everyone here is an IAWM "associate".
Do we have to be?
Do we all need to post a message disclaiming any "association" with the IAWM/SWP?

I am not now nor have I ever been a member of the IAWM or any or political or pseydo political group. So you are spared an embarassment by my support and association with a nation seeking freedom!

I do howevr fully support and even "associate" with the war of National Lieration being waged against a cruel Imperial invader . I am on the side of the innocent Iraqis . I am "associated" with all those who love justice and shout full-on at the US schoolyard bully, in words they can understand;

"bring it on assholes, you'll go home in bodybags"

by Glen swizer Wed Feb 25, 2004 13:12

----
first thingy:- Axis prisoners were afforded as much opportunity as Allied prisoners to escape,.... If more allied prisoners made it back to join their units, it is only because the emergency state of Eire shared a border with Northern Ireland which was actively commited to the allied war effort. The little myth you spread is....
---

I'm afraid you're flat out wrong. Axis aircrew were not allowed to return to Germany. Period.

With the exeception of those who arrived very early in the war and one US citizen allied aircrew were
allowed to 'escape'. This usually meant being driven to the border and then left alone in the back of a truck with a union jack clearly visible in the distance. Strangely enough they 'escaped' every time - on one occasion they even dragged the trailier with the remains of their aircraft with them!

As the war went on the lack of neutrality in this area became ever more blatent. In 1943 a B17 bomber full of US generals made a wheels up landing on a beach in co clare. All the generals were allowed to continue on their way to the UK.

Ireland also adopted the practive of annoucing the presence of aircraft flying over the south east coast on a known medium wave radio frequency. Ostensibly this was so the crew of the aircraft in question would hear the message and know where they were. In practice this was a death sentance for any luftwaffe crew as the RAF would immeditly send spitfires from wales.

All of this is well documented. Before you start spouting on about neutrality you might want to consider reading a few books....

by Lone gunman Wed Feb 25, 2004 14:00

Well unfortuneatly there is quite abit of circumstanial evidence to suggest that there was a U boat base in Donegal.Like it or lump it. No doubt it was no such thing like a Uboat pen in St Naziare.Proably a deluded IRA man with a few spares and supplying the Uboats with Players and locally Irish made fags.How would you explainGerman U boat men being pulled out of the Atlantic with a few packs of Irish fags?
Funny that NONE of those German POWs could have not presented themselves at the german legation and have sat the war out in the Embassy or be repatriated to Germany via neutral Spain or Portugal[who had very strong facist sympathies].or be flown out to the up to 1941 neutral USA via Foynes?How many abwehr and allied spooks came thru Foynes with the Irish govts knowledge?
Considering that the Swiss spend more of their monies in putting together a viable defence plan ,using their terrain,their resources,their pouplation,and actively hold manouvers every year.I would say that they have a 100%better chance of defending ,and repelling anyone than this smug defenceless little rock.BTW Lichtenstein is included in the Swiss defence plan,and it really is a strawman arguement on your part. for your info the 3rd Reich decided against invading Switzerland in1941.but decided against it due to the difficulty of terrain and resistance.They went off to take on Russia instead.Unternehmen TANNENBAUM it was called.When was Switzerland recently involved in European warfare?The Swiss are actually one of the masters of modern guriella warfare.TOTAL RESISTANCE by Major Von Dach.Is the classic text of modern gureilla warfare.required reading in ALL the worlds military acadamies,[with proably the exception of the irish army.]
Oh! you are a military expert on Irish affairs as well?Odd thing for a peacenick!
Well sonny you must not have been around in the Seventies and Eighties.When Nucelar war was not an "unlikely event".I remember doing the "duck &cover" drills in IRISH Primary school in the seventies.Funny thing to be teaching kids in lovely "neutral"Ireland.
You really show your ignorance of military affairs Re gureilla warfare.Most small countries are so overrun that it takes an outside influence[IE the Allies in ww2] to organise,equip,and train them.Thats if they are not ambivlent,or collabarating with the enemy[Vichy France,Quisslings in Norway]. de Gaulle ran off toAlgeria to reorganise the remains of the Free French colony units.He didnt run a gureilla war.For your info gureilla war is unwinnable for both sides.It has to be used in conjunction withregular forces.IE the allied invasion of europe. to use your own example Iraq.It is now down to an irratant to colation forces.Same as NI was to the British.
Even Al Quieda are losing faith going by the post on the letter from Iraq.

After a total or limited nuke war who was going to do this for little ol neutral ireland??
We would proably have been under a military command of either Russia,the remnants of NATO or the UK.Everyone would have been so sick of radiation or hungry we wouldnt be able to mount a protest,not to mind a gureilla war.Anyway I was asking somone who is supposed to have military experiance ,not a self indulgent opinion.

Fourth thing. Thats my own affair.Go figure.Why do you call yourself Joseph in a dead langauge?Cant say much for pacifists.They are usually a self righteous noisey bunch.But shut up pretty quick when somone is standing over them with a big whip .Then they are howling for somone else with to come and get the boot off their necks.

by Joe Wed Feb 25, 2004 14:15

What evidence is there of a 'U boat base in Donegal'? Apart from anything else this would have been the MOST STUPID location for it as Donegal was flown over constantly by U-Boat hunting seaplanes out of Lough Swilly and U boat hunting bombers out of other airbases in the north. A bit like deciding the safest place to hide a bit of steak was in the dogs bowl!

by iosaf Wed Feb 25, 2004 16:02

cool enough. You've answered my questions and I was going out on a bit of a leggy there, to use the term "bullshitting" might have been appropriate, and to say "i was trying to get up your nose" would be more accurate. (If only to see how you'd react). Simply because you seem to be doing your level best to get up Ed Horgan's nose, and I'm wondering why.-
Oh & I think you're slightly mistaken on the "dead language thing" regards my choice of "iosaf" over "joseph". Iosaf is on my EU passport as Irish gaelic and as such has been recognised throughout the union and I think it is the closest transliteration to both the hebrew and arabic form of the name. Though that is also why I use i.psi.phi as well being generally more interested in qabalistics and cryptology than military things. I knew a girl in London who used stand over people with a whip, but she had a UVA tattoo on her cranium and died of cancer.
So would you describe yourself as a violent man?
[this is the closest to trolling I shall allow myself go]

by Lone gunman Wed Feb 25, 2004 21:15

Joe,
Ever hear of hiding a pebble amongst pebbles?As I said, if you read the post properly,it more than likely was some IRA or Nazi sympathisers chacters with a few spare parts,and supplies or a cove with some sort with a cache of parts predeposited
.Somthing you could throw a bunch of cammo nets over and not be observed from the air.Remember it was hardly likely that any planes crossing the"neutral irish"air corridor could start orbiting around any suss objects.It was hardly some sort of secret huge base with armed gaurds ,major overhauling facilities etc as was in occupied France.
Second ,British admilitary reports on captured German U boot crews towards the end of the atlantic war],reported Irish brand ciggeretts among the captured crews.As well as findingfood stuff packaging from Eire among the flotsam.

Now,how often this happened is debatable.
but it would suggest that either[1] there was some base in Donegal or the west coast,[so the Donegalers wont feel too put on]
[2] There was some interaction between the Irish and the Uboots.
Cant see any any Uboot komdt being insane enough to surface next to a Irish trawler for some fags and groceries.But maybe a few of these lads bringthe boot into a cove to effect quick repairs before going out again.
Take it as you will.but it is possible considering that Ireland was supposed to be neutral.
isoaf
I am not trying to get up Ed Horgans nose.I am trying to get an answer from somone who was professionally involved in defence of this country regarding HOW they /we are /were supposed to defend our neutrality.As well as pointing out that to win anything in this peace campain it should be fought like a military campain.intelligence clear and factual is important,and that Ed ought to put his military experiance to good use to shake up this outfit abit.So that at least you are getting factual information.
Not a diatribate on cops and rentacops in Shannon,[which you should be now smart enough to avoid by now.]
Irish lingo,
well I consider it a dead langauge,considering I was forced fed the damn thing throughout my school years,and am proud to say I have not spoken a word of it since my leaving.Do you intend to force all our european neighbours to learn it as well?
I would really have liked to learn two more european langauges when I was in school and able to absorb such much easier.

A girl with a whip eh?Was she a dominatrix or do you like S&M?[She must have liked pain getting a tattoo on your scalp is very painful ,or so I am told.would make her a "switch"?].Oh well whatever cranks your crank.Pardon my ignorance but who or what are UVA?
Violent moi???
Gentle when stroked,fierce when provoked.

by Joe Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:33

Lone Gunman I'd be somewhat willing to believe the story of a U-Boat pulling into a cove in Kerry or Cork for a few fags. I'm just pointing out the obvious problem with Donegal, even apart from the enormous quantitiy of British airpower overhead there were huge numbers of free state troops there as well. But if you have any evidence for this Donegal claim please provide it.

by Earl Warren Thu Feb 26, 2004 14:12

where are the facts, the how many's? the who? When? where?

tut, tut.

about as credible as your disclosure of where the WMD were....

by io Thu Feb 26, 2004 15:53

she wasn't a dominatrix she was a sex worker who was very well paid to whip merchant banker types without the sticky viscous stuff normal sex stuff.
And yep cranial tattoos are very painful.
UVA tattoo isn't the proper term, but it meant that the ink used glowed under flourescent light, something most tattooists wouldn't even think of using.
perhaps If you had been taught irish using a different methodology you would have found it much easier to learn other european languages. Personally I feel granting euro-language status to Catalan is more arguable than gaeilge since 10,000,000 speak it as their first language. And it would be very unfair if gaeilge got upgraded to official and catalan continued to be completely unclassified.

by barry Fri Feb 27, 2004 20:08

The only plan I ever remember for wee old Ireland in case of a MADness outbreak was.......DIE.

Both the yanks and the russians had us (shannon) targetted, we were in multiple targetting waves, since both sides had us down to be taken by airborne forces as a forward base, both sides also had us down for first strikes, and follow ons to whack whoever got here first.

(since I grew up in limerick and clare, during the 70s and 80s this seemed enough for me to know. I don't remember the duck and cover drills though I did hear they happened here during the cuban 'crisis' but I do remember that if they nuked shannon, it probably wouldn't matter to me what the plans for say, longford were. I had a kids typical self-centric view of the world, looking back on it now, it's strange to remember how pervasive that was but I'm glad to say I've gotten over the feeling that we are all fucked all the time. Of course fighting for things I now believe in has exposed me to just how fucked we may all be, for all time, cf lots of the other posts on this newswire)

by Lone Gunman Fri Feb 27, 2004 22:40

Earl
what the Hell are you on about???What WMDs???Read the post again I gave as much info as there was on this matter.sorry I cant get into secret Uk admilitary files to prove my arguement.
Barry
Yes,it was a feature in our school in the seventies for about a month.[Maybe it was our teachers way of quieting down a bunch of hyperavtive kids?]

BTW Indymedia staff.Thanks for you know what!

by mr eugene donovan - writer Sat May 07, 2005 23:04 carrig2 at juno dot com

I've always been intrigued by Ireland's neutrality. I'am writing about Ireland and German relations during WW2.

I don't understand how Ireland can be part of the UN and still maintain their neutrality. What if the UN demands use of Irish airports for foreign countries?

Also, why did Ireland allow use of Foynes Seaport to the Allies in ww2 if it was a neutral country?

by A10 Mon May 09, 2005 01:11

If the one world burrocraccy of the UN demands that we jump in good ol Ireland.[We being the govt and looney lefties of all hues ] will just say "how high and for how long?"We bought into the UN myth so long and for so much.
As for W W2,the use of Foynes ,it was just part of Irelands selective neutrality.If we had been genuinely neutral,it would have been shut down or the 3rd reich would have been using it as well.[.Not that they really needed flying boats anymore as they had the first trans atlantic,non stop aircraft,eight years before the Allies.The FW2000 "condor"]No doubt we got somthing out of the deal.[Proably a US liberty boat of chocolate,nylon stockings and other black market goods .]

by in the know Mon May 09, 2005 16:40

GWB is to stop over in shannon tomorrow enrout to US from Moscow

sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh its a big secret but unfortunately its true