Ahern joins the attack on SF's IRA connection

by Jonah Thu Jan 29, 2004 15:20

Still waiting for the evidence. The unquestioning obedience with which the Irish left believes anything written in corporate establishment media about SF is one o fthe more bewildering aspects of their virulent anti-republicanism.

by pat c Thu Jan 29, 2004 15:31

why not produce evidence?

imc daleks zap this!

by Canteen Kevin Thu Jan 29, 2004 16:06

.....our own axis of gimme gimme (FF/PD/FG) are turning on Sinn Fein yet again. Hardly news. These parasites are posturing pre-local elections in a pathetic rallying call to their version of grass roots, the rural conservative and urban west brit vote. We'll be hearing a lot more of this type of shite in the future but logically they should produce the evidence or shut up. They will do neither as they have f*ck all else to campaign on bar the negative.

by Righteous Pragmatist Thu Jan 29, 2004 18:05

The "grass roots" support the largest political groupings in the Dail, Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour and the Progressive Democrats. The majority of the electorate of Ireland voted for these representives in free and fair elections.
Sinn Fein, The Socalist Workers Party and other independent T.D.s. are in the minority.

The vast majority of people do not support you simply because your policies and ideas are not popular.
You are not liked by the majority of people.

The majority of people in Ireland are opposed to violent Republicanism and are greatly anxious about the connection between Sinn Fein and the IRA who have not decommissioned their weapons stockpiles.
Bertie Ahern as leader of the goverment representing the majority of the people of Ireland is merely voicing their concerns.

If Sinn Fein/ IRA continue to hold onto weapons it can only be for coercing the majority against their will to accept the will of the minority of people in Ireland who support Sinn Fein.
That is wholly undemocratic.

If you fail to criticise Sinn Fein/ IRA and rather give them support against the will of majority of the people of Ireland you are by definition anti-democratic.
That is why the majority of people do not support you.

by pat c Thu Jan 29, 2004 18:08

evidence proof that sf is funded by ira jobs. please be pragmatic and supply it, bluster and allegations are not proof.

by kokomero Thu Jan 29, 2004 18:13

I'm fed up with this sort of self-serving sanctimonius shite from the parties who brought you the planning tribunals, corporate sleaze, and national debt.

If you've got the information which proves SF is funded by the RAH then out with it. I'm sure the DPP would be only too happy to prosecute them.

If not then don't waste your breath, we don't believe you!

SF will defeat you at the polls that's what this rubbish is really about!

by Canteen Kevin Thu Jan 29, 2004 19:31

"who" was I calling pathetic? - I was calling the FF/FG/PD anti-republican rallying call pathetic so -"WHAT are you calling pathetic? " would have made a more logical heading to your spiritedly sychophantic defence of the real gangsters in this state.

Note the repated of mantra of "democracy", "minority", "minority" -as if by repetition the "good" labels will stick to the right and the "bad" to the left . If you check your statisitics mate, you'll find in most of urban Dublin FF/PD/FG get a minority of cast votes. Look at the PD's -0.6% of the national vote and more or less 50% of the power. Sleazy vote manipulation and clientelism-not to mention a near monopoly of the media- have in the past ensured they get a number of seats disproportionate to their support.

They all know, FF especially, that they will be savaged in June, this is just the start of their pathetic (remember to read and think before posting now) grasping campaign to retain a stranglehold on power for their own benefit, not ours.

by c Thu Jan 29, 2004 21:30

evidence is there, 'slab' murphy doesn't smuggle petrol to the north from south? yeah right.

the allegation that ira funds sinn fein? i don't know haven't looked at their accounts! one thing for sure ira ddoes fund itself through illegal activities and raising money from members and supporters. there more thn likely is some overlap in funding but methinks the provos are a bit smarter than just planting the signposts in the front yard.

of course the corporate media and establishment of both ireland and britain are playing up the allegations and using it as propaganda, most clever and/or intelligent people on left can see this. but, we also have to look for the truth.

ira like all the paramilitaries in ireland helps to fund itself through illegal activities, at least their not selling heroin in ballymena like the lvf!

if you don't believe this maybe your the same kinda person that thinks the continuity ira never gave anyone a gun in limerick i mean no way no way never their freedom fightersdon't ya know!!!!!!!

by -I've just realised that I have spent the majority of my - life under CCTV. ( in a chat earlier) Thu Jan 29, 2004 23:56

Eugenio Etxebeste, "antxon" has been released on two thirds served of his sentance. I thought you'd have noticed what with the "terror" theme and stuff, been about a while eh old "antxon", did the peace negotiations with Spain in 1989, having been accredited with organising ETA through the 80s, and then was pursued by the French to the Dominican republic from whence he was extradited to serve his sentance. His release coincides with "the news" (you know about the news because you were in Spain this week- so I shall not bore indymedia readers and SF fans with it), terrible what's happening with all this "dialogue" republican stuff eh? Well, you and I know, interlocutors are the cleanest way to do that sort of thing. Don't get your hands dirty Bertie.
I suggest you make a "rumbing" "manipulative" "anti-terrorist" statement this week,
oh sure you just did.
Good Old Bertie, milking the barren cow.

by matt Thu Jan 29, 2004 23:57

You mightn't have seen them but a number of journalists have. Mark Hennessy of Times was one and he wrote a piece a number of weeks ago in which he basically said; "Put up or shut up". ALL SF electoral funding is subject to public scrutiny and there is no evidence that it comes from illegal activity.

As for the so-called "left", they are just as anxious to beleive this crap as the right because of their jealousy and hatred of the republican movement.

by john mcdermott - R.F.F.P Mon Feb 02, 2004 01:05 ashtown dublin 15

I get the feeling that Berties boys -who know more about corruption than all the other parties combined will ever learn-are more fearful of Sinn Fein inroads into their vote than any other party?There are many "republican"votes out there who may be thinking of a change...and the only party with a hope of picking them up is... Sinn Fein.

by padraig - a new hope Mon Feb 02, 2004 01:23

unless you shinners and supporters have been hiding under a rock...on mars...with your fingers in your ers for the last 40 yers,didnt you notice sinn fein and co murdering and killingall those people,for what? so they could take power.simple reason simple answer.

anybody that beleives that one of the smallest partys in the country is the highest funded,and doesnt beleive that this money gas anything to do with the fact that its military wing is known to engage in mafia style extortion and drug dealing,along with cross border fuel smuggling.

I am on the left,and i am sick and tired of this republican rennaissance thats going on in this country,sinn fèin purport to be marxists and socialists,and at the same time they are nationalists,they deny any involvement with the ira,and every body can see that they are the same.if thewy wanted to be taken seriously,they should just give up there guns and bombs,and thugs,but that is never going to happen,as then they will lose their finance making abilitys aswell.mark my words

hasta la victoria siempre

by padraig - a new hope Mon Feb 02, 2004 01:33

Also,try demonstrating against sinn fèin politicians,try shouting at sinn fèin to gat off to the anti war marches,you get thugs looking at you in the most serious manner,and every body trys to hush you up,because that is like "suicide"

I wonder why

guns have no place in either the politics of this country,or in the hands of the dissiluisioned lumpen proliteriat that make up the ranks of irelands largestcriminal organisation,the provisional sinn fèin/ira

by matt Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:29

What are left? Left out of the pub after a few too many, I'd say judging by the quality of your prose. Like the quote from Che. Now there was a man who would have been appalled by the use of violence!!!

by Jonah Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:41

Padraig, if you want to protest, you can drop by our offices at any time with your homemade placard. Our office on 44 Parnell Square is on a number of major bus routes and has easy access to the city centre. While I regret that from your perspective working class people look like thugs (It would be so much nicer if they read Chomsky, ignored sports and didn't drink wouldn't it?) but I can assure you the only looks you will attract will be of amusement and the only emotion you will provoke will be hilarity. Let me know when you plan to turn up, it's been ages since I laughed at people who picket out offices, one of the most memorable being the anti-immigrant campaigned Aine Ni Chonaill. Maybe youse could mount a co-picket?

by exposer Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:45

Everyone knows that SF have an element in them that consists of demobed IRA men. They will protect what they see as their 'patch' from other political parties. Ask any independent activist or small political party about how SF do this, they will tell you that they use all sorts of dirty tricks, even intimidation to keep rivals out of what they see as their areas.

by Tom Murphy Mon Feb 02, 2004 14:13

One obvoius thing you have all missed here is that one the Deputies setting in the Dail as a SF member is a convicted gun runner for the IRA, just ask the Irish Naval Service who arrested him onboard his ship. Its tipical of some people here, selective recall

by matt Mon Feb 02, 2004 14:32

This is such a dark secret that Ferris puts it in his election literature!!

Ferris has never denied his past, and infact everyone in Kerry knows, and over 25% of the electorate in Kerry North voted for him. So, Tom you are definitely up there in the O'Reilly school of invesitgative journalism.

by Bill Mon Feb 02, 2004 14:40

They voted for him not in spite of his previous activities, but because of them. He stuck his neck out for Ireland, and the people showed their appreciation.

by watcher Mon Feb 02, 2004 14:44

He stuck his neck out for Ireland my bollocks! What about fighting for his class!

The IRA did much much more for the maintainence of the union than any loyalist, unionist or British soldier.

With there terrorist tactics which targetted civilians they drove the British working class and the northern protestant working class into the hands of reactionaries like thatcher and Paisley. If the IRA wanted to get their goal of a united Ireland they need to win over the British working class and the protestant working class to their position.

by justin watcher Tue Feb 03, 2004 00:45

If people voted SF because of their connections to the IRA why is it that fuck all people voted SF at the height of the armed struggle. It was only after the ceasefire and the agreement that SF started to poll more than 500 votes.

by T.J. Tue Feb 03, 2004 04:18

"only after the ceasefire and the agreement that SF started to poll more than 500 votes"
Hmmm, I suppose that explains how Bobby Sands got elected.

by Padraig - a new hope Tue Feb 03, 2004 08:18

On the ring around the dail protest,last year,when the robocops all started pulling peaceful protestors out off the street,at one stage i had to go ask martin ferris to assist us and get his people to sit down with us and link arms. in Fairness the man was completely complicit,and immediately ordered his troops to do so.

some while later on,i was lettin him know,what was happening,and got talking to him and two guys that where from his side helping him.It was pretty obvious that they where his security.now these where a pair of boyos if i ever saw them.all they could talk about was how they wnated to "Blasht that bashtard garda helicopter out of the fockin sky!" and how they would love to kill garda.no lies,they creeped me out big time.these are the "soldiers" that will be freeing our proud nation from the scourge of the sassanach.
and i have protested against sinn fein,well ògra sinn fein,last years RTS was the venue.also shannon last march,and it wasnt a home made banner,just a wee protestant boy from north dublin making use of his right to free speech while he still has it.

and che guevara used military methods when the revolution was at hand,and imperialism had to be challenged,not when innocent men women and children had to be blown up for the sake of "irish nationalism"

murdering bastards...i dunno about dissilluisoned working class people who where celtic jerseys and grow fuzzy taches that look like they wiped theirmouthes with an phoblacht,but i wont be forgettin omagh,eniskillen or any of the genocidal atrocities that took place in our country,by a bunch of cronies who take it upon themsleves to decide whats best.

and if any of you shinners dont like it,just do what you do best...blame the english.go on,you know itll make you feel better

oh and sorry about the spelling last time,i was just a little angry matt,but yould know all about anger wouldnt you

by matt Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:43

The incident you describe involving Ferris never took place, except in your over fertile imagination. Yellow Pages contain help son.

As for the SP rant about winning over the working class, I'm afraid even the very best psychotherapy have no cure for you. Growing up and listening to real people instead of dubious characters like Hadden (what is his real name by the way, and why doesn't he use it????) is probably the best we can recommend.

by cabhog Tue Feb 03, 2004 13:06

The one thing the whole ENRON scandal showed up, was that within organisations ahring the same aim, chinesse walls can not successfully exist. The practisce of one arm of a bank ~(the stockbrokers) encouraging outside forces the purchase of ENRON share and another arm (the insurance investors genreally) profiting by selling ENRON share to the encouraged punter from the increased value of the shares highlighted this. Even though Bush is in the pocket of Wall Streets finest, and that substantive evidence is difficult to prove these allegations, efforts have been taken to split up companies where obvious conflicts of interest take place.

Similarily with SF/IRA, i do not believe that when a bank or post office is robbed or when smuggled diesil or cigarettes are sold or protection money sought, that the proceeds of that money is never re-diverted from the IRA criminals to SF activities, even when one and the same person are involved in both activites.

The argument is put across that the SF accounts are open to all, but so what??
Imagine if you are canvassing in the General Election, you need to get leaflets out quick, whats to sya that the few hundred quid you give to a few kids to drop them will be put through the books?

Similarily, the expense of busing canvassers from the north down south, during the election might be paid from monies that never go through accounts.

It would not be difficult to spend a lot of mnoney in an eleciton and for that money to never go through the bank accounts of that party.

Sinn Fein should be audited by the Revenue and the CAB immediately. Since of course they have nothing to fear, i expect that gerry adams will ask for this to be done asap, in order to cast aside any slights on SFs good name.

by history Tue Feb 03, 2004 15:03

Sands didn't stand as a SF candidate. SF were even opposed to him standing.

People were not voting for SF or for the armed struggle. That byelection was essentially a referendum on thatchers policy towards the hunger strikers. Of course people would turnout en-masse and support him.

by bored Tue Feb 03, 2004 15:36

SF have already shown their books to journalists. As for paying people to canvass and deliver leaflets, is that whatever sad group you support has to do?? Never hear of party members who do work voluntarily?

by leafletter Tue Feb 03, 2004 15:53

Do SF really pay people to do their leaflets?

If they do that would in my mind indicate a lack of support on the ground (at least active support) or that they are a very rich party.

by kokomero Tue Feb 03, 2004 18:08

Ever since these allegations were invented by the
mainstream parties SF have been calling for a full investigation.

FF and Co. operate on the principle that if you throw enough
muck some of it is bound to stick.

These allegations have as much substance as WMD in Iraq
and probably come from the same "intelligence" sources.

Unless perhaps FF and the blueshirts could get Hutton over
to stitch them up with another whitewash!?

by cabhog Tue Feb 03, 2004 18:22

Rubbish, Sinn Fein don't want an inquiry into their links with IRA criminla activity. Indeed two weeks ago, MCGuiness told Ahern and McDowell that continuing to highlight any possible link in funding could cause serious damage to the peace process.

As with regards to FF throwing mud and so on, don't SF do the same?? After all for the past 15 years they have repaeated the mantra that Maggie Thacther was a Direcotr of Terrorism in Northern Ireland. This despite the fact that no evidence has ever come to light suggesting she was aware of an activities in NI that could be considered terroristic. Similarily, SF go on about widespread corruption in the main parties in the Irish republic generally with no supporting evidence.

Okay, if SF do not get money from the IRA, then to what purpose does the proceeds of smuggling and robberies go (especially considering the IRA have no need in peace times to train members or purchase weaponry)?

by still bored Tue Feb 03, 2004 19:01

If you think SF pay leafletters why don't you join the party? They would probably give you some drugs to sell as well.

by Tom Luby Tue Feb 03, 2004 19:05

Join the SP instead. They pay their papersellers union rates. They are so active in South Dublin they have cornered the drug trade in Tallaght. You'll make more money working for them.

by kokomero Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:10

funny that you claim McGuinness doesn't want an inquiry when Mitchell McLaughlin publicly challenged FF and FG to bring their evidence through the legal system on RTE 's primetime.

The Republican leadership in recent years (ie since 1994 at least) has not been known for splits, perhaps you are party to inside information?

In any case the absense of any legal proceedings against SF, and the transparency in terms of their accounts gives no indication that there is any basis to your claims, and thus they must be disregarded as an electioneering ploy!

As for why people smuggle it is for personal gain, and has always been so. If you knew the border area then you would know that this activity goes with the territory and is not allied to any political or paramilitary grouping.

by conor - yfg Tue May 04, 2004 22:44

But does Martin Mcguinness recognize this legal system that he wants to put fg and ff through? It would be nice if he did