USI Cash Crisis: Officers to be made Redundant in March

by surprised Tue Jan 27, 2004 13:33

i'm surprised that no-one has commented on this.

by Parva Tue Jan 27, 2004 14:42

It's because nobody gives a fuck about USI they are completely irrelevent. They have doen NOTHING at all this year and then they wonder why the various colleges SUs aren't running to their rescue now. Why dont they get off their arses and make themselves relevent to the SUs and students, maybe if they did this people would not be wanting to dissaffiliate/not pay fees and would be even willing to up their affiliation fees.

I think if USI do go whallop or decrease their Officers to just 2 this could provide an oppurtunity to set up a new national fighting SU. I reckon moves should be made to maybe set up a 'union within a union' with its own staff and officers so effective actions can actually be organised on a national basis.

by The Insider Tue Jan 27, 2004 15:15

How would you stop this "new national fighting su" becoming just like USI?

How would you pay for this "new national fighting SU"?

by former member Tue Jan 27, 2004 17:21

...from the sale of shares in USIT. USI made millions when Gordon Colleary bought them out, anout £12m if memory serves??

by run away administrator? Tue Jan 27, 2004 17:34

I thought it fishy when their administrator Hugh Doogan left without much notice in the Summer. I'm sure he knows where the money has gone.

by The Insider Tue Jan 27, 2004 18:02

Sept 11th put paid to that. USI were awaiting payment of this money when Osama's boys struck. Hence USIT goes belly up, USI recieves very little.

by poor student Tue Jan 27, 2004 19:12

Tonight it looks like the Labour Party will be voting in 'Top-Up' fees. What are the USI doing about it? USI have members (and future members) that will be effected by this in Northern Ireland. I have not heard a single word from Will Priestly the USI President. All I've heard from Will is that he wnats to sue one of the most progressive SUs - UCDSU.

And while we're at it what do Labour members think about their sister Party voting for the introduction of further financial problems for students? If in Government could we see Labour getting 'concessions' on the fees plans of FF. Will we have Labour hacks saying "At least there will be a review of the impact of fees in a couple of years, Pat did a good job there for the working class..."

by ucd owe Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:09

To be fair if all the SU's who owe money would have paid their dues it mightn't have come to this.

by UCD Hedd Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:21

What about the back dues that UCDSU owe to USI? Why dont you pay them? Your attitude is like that of the US towards the UN.

by scraper Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:25

Because of the situation in the North both NUS and USI work under the same banner as NUS-USI.

The two national unions organised a mass rally against top up fees in Belfast. At which stage every MP in the North were convinced to vote against top up fees and getting the parties to agree on anything is amazing. Also the Northern Convenor was over in westminister lobbying on the day of the vote.

by hack hater - ucd student Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:36

The USI have done nothing all year. The only thing ye did do was that national demo- and ye parked a big juggernaut across molesworth street so that we couldn't even see the dail!

What else have you done? Why should UCDSU give money from last year? Aonghus didn't pay- that was his year, why should this year have anything to do with that guy. If UCDSU do pay will you give us more delegates at the Congress and UCD only had half a delegation last year.

USI: get off your arses and do some work!

by shinner watcher Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:39

Sinn Fein didn't vote against top-up fees by the way.

by SPySPotter Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:44

As you well know. Ever hear of abstentionism? Go stir it elsewhere.

by UCD Hedd Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:47

Affiliation fees must be paid unless you disaffiliate. Its bizarre to attack USI for inaction while at the same time refusing to give them funds to organise action.

by ucd left Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:50

usi beware: there is talk on the left to disaffiliate from the usi and set up a new national union. usi had their bacon saved by the ucd left- youre lucky to be getting any cash from us this year! now it looks like they could disaffiliate from you.

piss off ucd any more and you'll be up shits creek without a paddle.

by UCD Hedd Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:54

Wow! The neck of USI, how dare they ask for fees which are more than a year late. I suppose Oisin is too busy redecorating his office with new Trotsky posters to confirm or withdraw the above threat.

by The Insider Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:00

Question - how will this "new national union" be set up?

The only answer I've gotten to this is "with USI's money" which is so stupid an answer it's hard to believe. You will ask USI for it's money to set up a rival organisation? How likely do you think that is of happening?

And nobody has explained how this glorious "new national union" will not become filled up with hacks like USI. If you're going to have a democratic organisation then someone like Aonghus will be running at some point.Unless - of course - you make an undemocratic organisation with membership only open to trots and anarchists.

The best thing to do is reclaim USI, just as UCDSU was reclaimed last year. Setting up an alternative is not an option. Is the left afraid of this?

by student Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:46

i accept that sinn fein oppose top up fees. however i have to question them choosing not to vote against it.

i understand abstentionism- they dont in my opinion. abstaining was meant to be done to set up an alternative parliament. this was done in 1918, but they cant do it now, so why are they abstaining yet still getting the pay, perks and MP title?

they say they are showing their opposition to british rule in ireland. fair enough, but why then are you in government in the north. martin mcguinness was one of her majesties ministers. if you want to be consistant why not also abstain from stormont and from leinster house.

i think that sinn fein should be consistent and take their seats in westminster, it means they can vote against things like top-up fees that will mean poverty for students in the north and in britain.

don't have a go at me saying i'm a shit stirrer. i think these are valid points. if sinn fein voted it would have meant that blair would have only won by a single vote.

by SPySPotter Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:54

Are not going to change a position they have held for 100 years just to vote on University fees. Anyone who suggests otherwise is either a stirrer or of below average inteeligence and in any case not a suitable candidate for third level education.

by goodidea Wed Jan 28, 2004 13:44

A new union could easily be set up, there are plenty of spare offices in the unis and there is enough cash in the SUs for a few full time officers. Any new union even if it not completely broken with the USI would be far more active a relevent that the current incompetant USI. It would have far more respect and credibility. UCD and other lefts that are pissed off with USI should give it serious consideration.

The stuff on SF is obvious shit striiing. People shouldn't take the bait

by UCD Hedd Wed Jan 28, 2004 13:51

How would it be easily set up? Would it only represent the interests of the left? Would members have to take a test to determine their politics? I dont see how a new union would in some magical way be different from USI.

The vast majority of students are not trots or anarchists, the splitters seem to forget this. Members of a new union are just as likely to support policies and elect officers that the "left" do not approve of.

by Dave25 - USI Western Area Officer Wed Jan 28, 2004 14:13 dave.gmitsu at ireland dot com

It is interesting to note all the comments made in relation to USI and that they do nothing. Just to clarify - USI is not an officer board of ten members, twelve members or 100 hundred members. USI is a union of students - and unlike individual students' unions it is not an executive committee. USI is all affiliated Unions and their students.

If USI 'does nothing' then the finger should be pointed at all students' unions and students who do nothing.

In relation to the financial situation - USI as a national union is essential to all the smaller SU's. I am an officer based in the west and my job is to give back up and support to my unions and to develop their campaigns. There is no alternative to USI - it is the only recognised body to the government and so its representatives are represented on gov committees.

If you want to change USI, all local unions can bring motions, constitutional amendments and any such items as they see fit. They can then persuade all unions that their idea is the best. It is students' unions accross the country who will decide its future direction.

There is also an onus on everyone interested in the student movement to stop glorifying some fictional demise of USI and get involved and change it. You change USI as individuals by becoming involved in your local union - who are officers of USI. USI does nothing is a fallacy - do people not remember the effect of student mobilisation last year...this demonstrated all students working together.

This is the beauty of democracy - it is more a case of 'not what usi can do for me, but what i can do for USI'.

by The Insider Wed Jan 28, 2004 15:19

"A new union could easily be set up, there are plenty of spare offices in the unis and there is enough cash in the SUs for a few full time officers"

Oh right. So this brave and wonderful new union will have enough money for "a few full time officers". Whoopee!!

What about money for campaigns, what about money for staff? You will need staff, whether in terms of administrators or research, or publications. These are all things which are needed and which USI has.

Unless you expect your officers to sit around twiddling their thumbs, then a new Union will cost a lot more than just a few full time officers.

And nobody as explained how this wonderful new Union will not end up electing some Aonghusite or Priestlyite in the near future. UCDSU elected Aonghus and loads of FFers and FGers, but I didn't hear the left calling for its abolition. instead, it was reclaimed, which is the same thing that should be done with USI.

Answers on a postcard please...

by USI Press Office - USI Wed Jan 28, 2004 15:37

In reference to the above story it is important to make a number of clarifications.

1. No decision has been made as to how many officers are to be elected for next year, this is a decision that will be made at USI’s Annual Congress in March
2. USI do not owe the Revenue Commissioners a 6 figure sum, any money owed is in relation to this financial year
3. No proposals have been made for the cancellation of LGB Conference
4. In regard to officer resignations the following officers have resigned this academic year
 Disability Awareness officer
 Irish Language Officer
 Equality Officer
 Chair of Women’s Right Action Committee
 NOT the Environmental Awareness Officer

by scraper Wed Jan 28, 2004 15:39

If we want to change USI there is a way, go to your student council meetings and demand that YOUR SU takes a stance.

Remember that usi's National Exec is National Council, where all members of usi sit and control whats going on in the coming months.

Your Union sits on National Council and makes these decisions. If they are not representing your view, make them your their boss!

by spider - IT Tallaght Wed Jan 28, 2004 16:29 william_patrick8 at hotmail dot com

In reading the comments I find it amazing that USI is constantly referred to as some unattainable entity, something detached from the real world, something that we have no control over. WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP! USI consists of a pack of colleges who all meet up at national council, from my reading of it, it is those colleges that determine USI policy and are charged with the duty of ensuring that USIs officers do their job. If USI isn't doing its job it's because your local students union is not doing its job in representing you at a national level. If you believe that this is the case then you should be calling for the immediate impeachment of your student union because they have fails YOU! I pay the bones of three euro to the USI, I pay a hell of a lot more to ITTSU and if they don't do their job then I get pissed off. I'm off to ask my union what they've been doing to further the student movement nationally. I suggest you do the same. I've been about for six years there has always been questions over USI's finances this is the first year anybody has ever bothered to do something Well Done!!

by UCD Hedd Wed Jan 28, 2004 16:37

Good man. There is another set of "left" careerists behind this splitters movement. They think the jobs of officers should be theirs and their appointees should be administrators and researchers. Their ideal is a New Union which would have a constitution which would discriminate against the political views of the vast majority of students.

Ancient ones inform me that this is how USI operated when the WP were in control. Its ironic that the Trots now want to have absolute control. Well, maybe not ironic, is there any real difference between the WPs Stalinism and the Trotskyism of the SP?

by Ben Archibald - USI and NUS (NUS-USI) Wed Jan 28, 2004 17:02 ben.archibald at nistudents dot org

In addition to my duties as the senior student officer in Northern Ireland, I invited all political parties to volunteer their opinions on the proposals for top-up fees in the summer of 2003.

All political parties responded that they opposed the fees. Will Priestley was fully involved and instrumental in the campaign, which we won, ladies and gentlemen, with every political party representing the North voting against the government, includign the SDLP, who sit on government benches.

Any queries about the campaign should in the first instance be addressed to me,

Ben Archibald,

[email protected]

by Ben Archibald Wed Jan 28, 2004 17:15

I should add, to counter a bizarre argument further up the board about Sinn Féin, that Sinn Féin are fully committed to oppose top-up fees, and the reason they didn't vote against is because they don't sit in the UK Parliament.

Sinn Féin has been fully supportive of NUS-USI in this campaign, as have:

Ulster Unionist Party
NI Women's Coalition
Alliance Party of Northern Ireland
The Conservative and Unionist Party
The Progressive Unionist Party
The Social, Democratic and Labour Party,
The Ulster Democratic Unionist Party
The Northern Ireland Unionist Party
The Worker's Party

Ben

by Tommy - ITB Wed Jan 28, 2004 17:15 tommy233 at hotmail dot com

What does it mean to be a lefty? I have a feeling that these 'lefties' are no more than D4 prodigies who are rebelling against daddy...they command the support of no one but the guilt ridden terraces of Donnybrook and raheny.

Their parents vote green, they're against incinerators (in their backgarden)..the lefties vote for the socialist party until they graduate and start making money...then they confuse the left with labour...same old story.

God bless the college years so these people can get all the campaigning out of their system before they face the real world.

Unluckily for our leftie friends their parents don't quality for a grant - so they confuse this with poverty and social exclusion...but the marshmallows and coffee are still available at the weekend (they may also get a naughty look at daddies financial times)...

The 'Left' in political terms believe in the rights of the individual, including healthcare and education and social inclusion. I consider myself to be left but i also believe in the individuals right to a higher standard of living and a higher level of services for my euro.

The idiots that i'm referring to are nothing but Johnny Rotten loving establishment bashing buffoons who mistakenly believe they have wide support.

These lefties are anti-europe and they stood at the gates of the Dáil in 1972 when we joined europe - which has made Ireland into a striving economy with improved infrastructure and an educated work force envied throughout the world. Our public services have improved...etc

There is nothing to fear from big business either. All big business came from small business with big ideas.... the times they are a changing! Be gone Lefties!

by Open your eyes - Long time on the ground Wed Jan 28, 2004 17:26

In relation to USI Press Office, you are hardly going to admit to negative press.

1. No decision has been made as to how many officers are to be elected for next year, this is a decision that will be made at USI’s Annual Congress in March -

IS IT NOT TRUE TO SAY TRUSTEES AND THE LACK OF FINANCES WILL DETERMINE FUTURE?

2. USI do not owe the Revenue Commissioners a 6 figure sum, any money owed is in relation to this financial year

IT IS HARD TO BE CONVINCED HERE - ARE USI'S ACCOUNTS ON THEIR SITE? OR ARE THEY AVAILABLE TO ANY STUDENT WHO IS A MEMBER?
- PERHAPS STUDENTS AND SU'S SHOULD BE ASKING FOR BACK DATED A/C'S TO SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE.
HOW MUCH DO USI PAY IN TAX A YEAR?
- HOW WOULD THAT CHANGE IF GRANTED CHARITY STATUS?

3. No proposals have been made for the cancellation of LGB Conference

I CAN ONLY IMAGINE HOW UNPOPULAR USI WOULD BE IF THEY CANCELLED THIS EVER GROWING CONFERENCE

4. In regard to officer resignations the following officers have resigned this academic year
 Disability Awareness officer -

CONSIDERING THE POOR QUALITY CANDIDATE AND ELECTED OFFICER (ADMITTING HAVING NO CLUE, NOT VERY INSPIRING) , IT IS EASY TO SEE WHY THE OFFICER RESIGNED.

 Irish Language Officer

TERRIBLE WHEN AN EX-TRINITY OFFICER BELIEVES THE HYPE ABOUT THEIR GREATNESS.


 Equality Officer

A WEAK CANDIDATE FOR THE POSITION.
LACKING IN ANY TRUE SENSE OF COMPASSION AND TOTALLY OPPOSED TO MAIN ELEMENTS OF THE EQUALITY OFFICERS WORK - SHAME ON YOU FOR BEING IGNORANT IN RELATION TO YOU PEERS CAMPAIGNS (lgb, womens rights, disability) AND EVEN MORE CLUELESS IN YOUR OWN ROLE.

 Chair of Women’s Right Action Committee

SINCE THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF AN INNER DUBLIN UNIVERSITY WAS ELECTED, THEY DID NOTHING TO BENEFIT THE CAMPAIGN.IN FACT THEY WERE ALL FOR DOWN GRADING THE OFFICERSHIP TO BEING A CHAIR.


 NOT the Environmental Awareness Officer

THE LACK OF WORK BEING DONE BY THIS OFFICER, WOULD MAKE YOU IMAGINE THEY RESIGNED. I DONT THINK WORKING TO BUILD YOUR OWN SOCIAL LIFE CAN BE DEEMED PART OF THE JOB DESCRIPTION.

-----
AS FOR THE COMMENTS MADE ABOUT THE FORMER GM OF USI, I AGREE AND FIND IT A DISGRACE THAT HE HAD HIS CONTRACT EXTENDED.

USI HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE A GREAT ORGANISATION, BUT WILL CONTINUE TO SINK FINANCIALLY AND IN PEOPLES OPINION AS LONG AS POPULARITY = GETTING ELECTED.

---
ALL THE COMMENTS ABOUT UCDSU WOULD MAKE YOU THINK THEY ARE THE ONLY MEMBERS.
AS SOMEONE ALREADY SAID, YOU HAVE TO GIVE SOMETHING IN ORDER TO GET A GREATER RETURN.

by tintin Wed Jan 28, 2004 17:26

SF supported cutbacks in Government. If SF were in Stormont they would be supporting top up fees. NUS/USI dont fight the fees they just suck up to Labour hoping to advance their careers.

A fighting union can be built. There is no need for administrative staff or researchers. There will be plenty of volunteers. all officers should be subject to immediate recall. This would keep the careerists out.

by random ucd student Wed Jan 28, 2004 17:29

The current ucdsu , mamely Paul and Aidan saved USI`s ass last year when they ran the referendum for UCD to stay in USI. Id say they are wondering to themselves now as to why they bothered, USI are the most inactive , useless organisation that exists in the student movement across Europe. They have done nothing and plan to do nothing during the Irish Presidency to highlight the dangerous road public education is going in Europe. They have spent the whole year whinging about their finances, if they got up off their arse to campaign and make the union relevant to students across the country then they might recieve some sympathy, but until then most of us in UCD would like to see it go into liquidation and have the organisation built from scratch. The only reason UCDSU are still in USI is that they value the ideological need for a national union but the current officer board are a laughing joke with Priestly topping the list. Also the front page of the college Tribune claims that Priesly ( ungrateful prick) plans to sue UCD for not paying last years affiliation fees, cop on to yourself man , you are walking a very thin line as it is and they are the only ones who are capable of saving USI from inevitable collapse. Get your priorities right and dont bite the hand that feeds you.

by Ben Archibald Wed Jan 28, 2004 17:30

Unlike anybody on this message board, I had to live through the nightmare shit-train that was January 27th.

Running around like a headless chicken, grabbing MP's from all parties and demanding that they stand up for students, doing everything that could be done to make yesterday a success, only to see the dickhead Brown play his sickening little part in the labour party leaderhsip battle. He screwed students over and laughed all the way to the bank for a whole lot of so what.

And watching Lorna Fitzsimons, a former chief lefty and President of NUS, stand up and nauseatingly scuttle to the caverns of the fast-track to a ministry, I felt physically sick.

I threw up yesterday. Seeing Charles Clarke and Stephen Twigg dance on the grave of free education has given me a new lease of life.

Ladies and gentlemen, USI's Northern office petitioned every Northern Ireland MP and got a committment out of every one of them to oppose the government, and that is exactly what happened. USI won the argument.

Your Union needs you now more than ever.

There will not be a new alternative union, because the fact is that USI is the only union that can effectively represent the whole island's students. FUSU won't, no Lefty parasite will, no stitch up between your parties will.

Only the students together can represent their own interests to the wider world. You owe it to USI and to yourselves, to your students and to your country, to secure the National Union, its democracy and all it stands for.

Everything else is just running away.

Ben

by A Red Block Wed Jan 28, 2004 17:32

And the SP don't troll - eh?

by The Nort Wed Jan 28, 2004 17:33

Sinn Féin don't support fees. And more important than a fighting union is a winning union. USI is just such a union.

Nort

by The Insider Wed Jan 28, 2004 19:11

"A fighting union can be built. "
Totally agree. It was done in UCD by reclaiming the union there, it can be done on a national level with USI. There is no structural impediment to USI becoming a fighting union, it just needs the right people elected (again, like UCDSU).

"There is no need for administrative staff or researchers. "

Who is going to manage the books, pay the bills, do the research and all the groundwork? If you just leave it to officers then they'll be spending the whole year doing that stuff, with no time for campaigns!

"There will be plenty of volunteers"
that's a recepie for someone running off with money if ever I heard it"

"all officers should be subject to immediate recall"
They already ARE at the moment. It's easy to recall an officer, just that the so called lefties don't have the intellect to check it out.

Well done on your hard work in the North, Ben.

by Campaign for Free Education Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:49

A quick note for Tory boy Ben Archibald. Yes you and USI managed to, "petitioned every Northern Ireland MP and got a committment out of every one of them to oppose the government, and that is exactly what happened. USI won the argumen", well then accept defeat because this was obviously not enough. It is not a difficult task to win the ideological battle for free education. Unless you engage your members in direct action against these atrocious fees then you achieve nothing. Every politician will give you there support no matter what your arguing for. Lobbying is not enough and maybe now you will realise this. The CFE were the only group in Britain to have any direct impact. Had there been what you call lefty parasites fighting the battle then perhaps you might have won.

by pat c Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:17

Does the CFE stand over that personalised attack on Ben Archibald? Perhaps some of the CFE luminaries would enlighten us as to what actions they carried out in the North.

by The Insider Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:27

It's a valid point to wonder what they're doing in either the South or the North. In the ROI they were never more than a UCD only group, in the North they didn't exist at all. Pity Really.

AS for lobbying MPs, it was a lot more than CFE ever did. A successful campaign relies on both Direct Action and Lobbying. CFE's have done neither this year.

by DiscoDisco - SA Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:36

DAVE 25, a USI man says:
"
It is interesting to note all the comments made in relation to USI and that they do nothing. Just to clarify - USI is not an officer board of ten members, twelve members or 100 hundred members. USI is a union of students - and unlike individual students' unions it is not an executive committee. USI is all affiliated Unions and their students.

If USI 'does nothing' then the finger should be pointed at all students' unions and students who do nothing.
"

Well dave. Its the job of the officers (who's allowance , is ample) to ORGANISE the students.

Do you expect 5 students in an alienating universityto do all your work for you?

When students DO organise (independant of the USI), e.g. the cfe, we get garda collusion by FF/Labour heads of usi, fucking up any chabnces of success, or empowerment, AND we get articles in the (cash strapped) USI magazine CONDEMING us in a darned patronising fashion.

When students occupy buildings at the behest of the USI, only to be phoned up and told they are on their own, they have little confidence in it.

When students see the officer board full of anti USI carreerist shits,and assorted gobshites, they have little confidence in it.

Fuck off back to the western area DAVE, and stop posting bullshit comments where they are not wanted.

http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/display/4

"Let them eat cake"-Will priestly

by Ray Thu Jan 29, 2004 13:13

All of the criticisms made about USI could have been made about UCDSU at various times.
Right-wing officers?
Patronising articles in the union press?
Union officers ignoring protests?
Its all been done in the past, and doubtless will be done again in the future.
If you're going to criticise USI (and its hardly above criticism) how do you think the situation could be improved?
More democratic structures - how, exactly, should USI be made more democratic?
Better people in charge - how do you ensure that the 'right people' are always in charge, unless you personally get to appoint them?
Or is the idea of a national union always doomed to failure?
If you think UCD should disaffiliate, do you think anything should be set up in the place of USI, and why would it work any better?

by The Outsider Thu Jan 29, 2004 13:14

I wouldn't put much stock in "disco"'s (or should that be Conor's) whiny rant, most of it has already been exposed as nonsense. He just likes to complain!


"we get garda collusion by FF/Labour heads of usi, fucking up any chabnces of success, or empowerment"
- No Collusion.

"AND we get articles in the (cash strapped) USI magazine CONDEMING us in a darned patronising fashion."
- Did not happen. The Article was headlined "march on student soldiers!" - does that sound like condemnation?

"When students occupy buildings at the behest of the USI, only to be phoned up and told they are on their own, they have little confidence in it."
- Did not happen - in fact as everyone knows, USI officers were in those occupations!

by Harry Stanton Thu Jan 29, 2004 15:47

I was just chatting to Ben Archibald, the Northern Area officer. He refused to comment at all on the finances of the USI, on the basis that all financial matters are being dealt with by the President. He is of the opinion that Will is doing a great job.

He was a bit amused by the 'Campaign for Free Education' rant earlier, and wanted to set the record straight on the Top-up fees vote.

He says that the CFE lot were important in keeping people apprised of what the hell was going on, but that in reality it was a massive team effort, with everybody on stream and on message to attack the UK government. He seems to have qa bit of respect for CFE, but he still says that the NEC action, the mass lobby and the work being done by students through the E-mail and postal systems are what really brought the vote close.

He insists that the fight goes on, and doesn't think that it's helpful to label the vote a defeat. He points out that the government majority was reduced massively, that the bill now moves to committee stage where further concessions will be won, and reminds me that the House of Lords is unlikely to allow the bill though without giving Blair a bit of a kicking.

H

by Dave - Western Area Officer Thu Jan 29, 2004 17:50

Disco Stu? is that you?....yes i am in the west where things are haromonious and wonderful..you sum up your whole political ethos when you say 'fuck off back to the west'...unfortunatly for you the vast majority of people believe in a national union not some trotskyite committee that serves no one but themselves.

by antrophe Thu Jan 29, 2004 18:57

Talk of setting up a new national union is ridiculous, and even if the logistic impossibilities of trying to get togther all the facilities that have been mentioned as seemingly neccesary to a union were overcome. We'd still essentially eb at where we are at; that is a bunch of student officers sitting in their offices, and thats it.

'Reclaiming' USI is a wholly different affair to 'reclaiming' a local union, and even then what does this reclamation really mean and contribute to, how successful are these? Reclaiming USI would require a utopian situation arising where all the local colleges suddenly woke up to find student conciosuness has miraculously found itself at an even level throughout the country.

The reality is, that the student movement is characterised by three year cycles which mean that any gains won by one generation of activists are in many ways lost and forgotten by the next. Student activists don't have ten years to reclaim USI, but two or three. At best their can only be a situation where it is peppered with left leaning types here and there, in the same way the country is peppered withn left leaning unions here and there every few years.

What we should be concerned about though is the lack of a national movement. The best and easiest way to overcome the problems of USI is by ignoring them and concentrating on our own efforts. That means using their structures for what we can and doing what we need to anyway oursleves. Why do we have such a reliance on USI officers to do everything for us anyway? Are activists on the ground that helpless? Maybe its time USI was circumnavigated as the forum in which we seek to make contact with and co-ordinate our efforts with other colleges.

This would mean creating our own forums; participatory discussions open to all involved in the student movement at all levels. Where those within the movment who want to mobilise against government cut backs and attack can discuss strategy and call action above USI's head. Where we can co-ordinate our efforts towards a national movement made up of the active involvement of the masses of student.

Society as a whole is becoming increasingly depoliticised, as people are encouraged away from participatory communal responses to their problems and towards individual responses; student take loans and work as opposed to organising and fighting etc...People bemoan the seeming political inertia of USI, how now it seems to be turning steadily into some sort of a state paid service agency provided to students, but that only reflectst the depoliticistion of the colleges and students.

Again, people seem to forget one thing, it doesn't matter what the fuck USI does, if there are no students to do it. People are talking about recaliming unions; but who's gonna do the reclaiming? The real issue here is the creation of grassroots student activism and not so much the antics and fuck ups of successive USI officers.

Its time for talk about encouraging activism in our colleges, reapprasial of our movement and some sort of idea of what it is we are actually fighting. But its not just dialogue and discussion we need, but autonomous organisation whcih favour diredct democracy within the colleges so all students affected by an issue have potential access to direct ownership and input to the campaign through open meetings etc. If a strategy wins, it doesnt neccesarily mean its the best, ideally we need strategies that not only win, but which also empower and produce new generations of activists.

by ucdsu member Thu Jan 29, 2004 20:13

Dave McCoy's last posting says alot about his ilk in the USI. First of All- DAVE I PAY YOUR WAGES how dare you attack your paymasters for thier politics.

Dave McCoy is the Western Area officer who has not done anything. He's not alone on USI offierboard. Most of the Area officers are gobshites that swan around Ireland's public transport system getting our money for expenses. Please excluse Kenny Kinsella from this as he sits in an office in Dublin all the time and doesn't even pretend to visit colleges.

Will Priestley is of the Aonghus Hourihane school of SU President. ie very very conservative. He even tried to DISAFFILIATE from USI last year at the same time as Mr. A. C. Hourihane. Now he has the brass neck to say he's sueing UCDSU. What a Bastard. Last night UCDSU Council passed a motion CONDEMING priestley for his disgusting threats.

Glen Guilfoyle (welfare officer) has been saying that he won't have a disability congress. UCDSU said they would do it instead. Why do we pay thousands on affiliation fees? Brighid Breathneach hasn't done too much either.Lyndsey Jones and some part-time officers have resigned without replacement, this is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The only half decent ones are Tadhg O'Brien and Gareth Keogh.

I disagree with disaffiliating. I remember back to the USI vote last year. From what I remember the SP clashed with Dillon and Cian O'Callaghan over them not criticising the USI leaders. Now it seems the SP were right. The USI needs to be changed, that is done by getting the absolute inactive fools like Dave "I hate the trots- even those that saved the USI in UCD last year" McCoy, Will "Tory Boy" Priestly, Glen "Fianna Fail" Guilfoyle, Brighid "No Work" Breathneach, Ken "Loser" Kinsella, and Fine Gael's Finest JP "I wanna be President" McArdle

by the usi cynic Fri Jan 30, 2004 05:05

" If USI isn't doing its job it's because your local students union is not doing its job in representing you at a national level. If you believe that this is the case then you should be calling for the immediate impeachment of your student union because they have fails YOU!"

This is grand in theory... however, National Council has become a joke from what I've heard. The two most vocal SUs have tried in vain to represent their students. When Officer Board members disagree with a point made against them they hiss en masse and tut like back benchers in the House of Commons. When one of their own speaks out against a CO a chorus of "hear, hear" can be heard from their row.
They seem to believe in the "them against us" mentality, and take every suggestion (critical or constructive) as a personal insult, resulting in snide remarks fired back at whoever they see as the enemy of the moment.

Thus very little is ever achieved.

Rather than being a productive executive meeting, National Council inevitably becomes a circus of incomplete officer reports (and this is kind... ) and defensive rants. When SUs have tried in the past to present alternatives and solutions they are met with sighs and stares. Minutes are rarely accurate, agendas are pointed and the pub seems to be the only end the meetings ever strive to meet.

USI could be great. If they had foreseen these difficulties and slimmed down Officer Board as TCDSU suggested at the last National Congress they may have found it easier to overcome many of their current problems. However, even if they were in the black financially, USI would still be far from productive these days. Infights, personal agendas and careerism cannot easily be overcome from outside their inner circle (for, however ideal it may seem, USI IS NOT run by its constituents). I only feel sorry for the likes of Gareth Keogh, Tadhg O'Brien and even Will Priestley who have tried to work despite the negativity.

If students want their own SUs to represent them efficiently, they should ask them to focus on their own colleges and forget about USI. It's a drain on officer time and union resources, both of which could be far better spent on relevant local issues.

by UCD lefty Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:58

How dare Priestly come oput ant threaten to take UCDSU to the courts. He has a cheek. IOt was the current 'left' leadership of of UCDSU that saved USI's ass last year in the dissaffiliation referendum, intrestingly at the same time of this referendum Priestly was leading a disaffiliation campaing in TCD. He's a hypocrite. Priestly and the whole officer board has done fuck all this year. All they managed to do was organise an ineffective photo opp on Molesworth St. These people are careerisits that see USI as a springboard to their political careeris. Everybody knows the real motivation behind Priestly's threatened legal acvtion, it is political. Priestly is a FGer, UCD is a left wing union that has been to the forefront in opposing government cuts in the colleges. Priestly feels upstaged and wants to go on the attack. Essentially like FG in general he is doing the governments job by proxy.

For various USI officers to come onto this site and have a go at the 'left' in UCD is a disgrace in my opinion. The left in UCD has shown more backbone and commitment than these spineless USI careerist bureacrats. Some have even gone to prison in their opposition to cuts, Priestly and the Western Area Officer hasn't even left his office.

Another thing that needs to be nailed. This myth that the UCD left are all middle class liberals whos parents vote Green. This is bollocks. The vast majority of the UCD left are from working class backgrounds, there are obviously some more middle class types but they are certainly not privileged D4's like Priestly and the USI officer board.

BTW
Pat c, Ben Archibald is a member of the British Conservative Party. And is on record praising Thatcher's rule especially her dealings with the trade unions and miners. This type deserves NO apology

by Arts Student, Belfield. Fri Jan 30, 2004 13:37

I think that Dave McCoy should be harrassed big time at the next National Council for his disgusting comments on this internet site. I'm going down to Paul, Oisín and Aidan now to make sure they go for him. He should apologise. UCD students, in particular left activists, have saved USI last year. This year we've done far far more than any USI officer. They have done fuck all on cuts- except on poxy photo op. They have sit around thinking themselves important and have talked about money. On the other hand UCDSU have fought and won on many cuts in UCD and are fighting on Res Rights. One left activist was even jailed for opposing cuts in public services. USI officers just sneer at this work.

You should be ashamed of yourselves (in particular Dave McCoy). We pay your wages and get no help from ye. You should be all made redundant, at least then you wont be paid by us for doing nothing as you have been doing all year.

by Paul Fri Jan 30, 2004 14:06

I think that UCD should not disaffiliate from USI. I don't think anyone on the left is saying that. What people are saying is that most of them are useless and should be kicked out. They are full of rubbish and are very inactive. For example you have muppets like Dave McCoy who go on anti Trotskyist rants on the net. Ken Kinsella who is always moaning about something. And then JP McArdle who spends his time plotting his career in USI and FG.

I think it is right to attack these gobshites. It's also important to realise that if we are to seriously fight the government we need to do it nationally. USI officers need to be on the ground campaigning on the issues and winning the support and respect of their members. I have to say that I have found that Gareth Keogh and Joyce Power were good on a few issues and I have at least seen them here in UCD. I'm also told Tadhg O'Brien is good. Other than them the rest of them have not done much and should be given the boot.

by Paul Fri Jan 30, 2004 14:07

I dont use anonymous names on the net. My name is Paul, I'm a UCD student. I am not Paul Dillon. I am not a class rep and dont hold any position in the SU.

by UCD lefty Fri Jan 30, 2004 14:10

Our primary goal is to establish a fighting national union. That can take the route of recaliming USI or possibly through establishing a new national union. We shouldn't develop a fettish of always staying in USI, sometimes under certain conditions it might be right to make that break, with this in mind we should think about what organisational form the USI left takes. This is many people on the UCD left are saying.

by Dave Fri Jan 30, 2004 14:24

You can't beat the old free speech...pity people use pseudynoms though..

by Ed (real name) Fri Jan 30, 2004 14:30

Who ever said that you shouldn't have the right to freedom of speech?

It is you that opposes democratic freedoms. You and the rest of the right winger on the officer board are the crowd that supported the jailing of David Murphy despite a unamanous motion calling for USI action being passed by UCDSU council.

Wait until the congress you will be verbally attacked by nearly every UCD delegate.

by Dave Fri Jan 30, 2004 14:37

I'd be delighted to take questions and get harrassed at the next national council...any chance of support for my quest in becoming president?

by Ed (real name) - UCD Fri Jan 30, 2004 14:42

Why did you support the jailing of David Murphy?

by Dave Fri Jan 30, 2004 14:49

Ed - seriously - of course i didn't support the jailing of anyone for peaceful protest.

I don't agree with the Bin protests in general - i don't think its an issue for a student movement....people in the country have paid bin charges for years and it is paid as a necessary evil.

I'm also mandated by my region to oppose the involvement of Officers at the bin protests..but if the majority of USI want to support such a move then i would be 100% behind it. I'm a great believer in democracy.

by Ed (real name) - UCD Fri Jan 30, 2004 15:00

First off, the UCDSU never took a position of opposition to the bin tax. It took a position of opposition to the jailing of protesters. UCD were not looking for USI to oppose bin tax or to be involved in bin truck blockades, they were looking for a USI organised national demo in opposition to the jailing of David Murphy. Please get your facts straight.

You spout on about democracy well what about the fact that a vast majority of people in Dublin don't pay their bin tax and the fact that not one of the cllrs that voted in bin tax said they would do so at election time? Bin Tax is not democratic.

Bin Tax is not a neccesary evil. There is enough money in this country to pay for proper recycling facilities and for waste collection. The point of the bin tax is that it is not about recycling. It is about putting a 2nd tier of local taxation on working people. This is another government cutback. It is very much the business of the student movement to oppose all cutbacks, not just those on education. As how do you think cuts will be defeated if we don't link up with trade unions and community groups that are opposing cuts. Anyhow students have to pay bin tax too.

This country vrs Dublin argument is bizarre. It is quite a silly idea if you think about it. If you carry this argument o its logical conclusion you would say that if tomorrow the Irish government decided to abolish elections that we would have no right to object because most people in the world don't have the luxury of elections! It was a deliberate tactic of the government to pit country people against Dubliners in this dispute. The reality is that the Dubliner that doesn't pay bin tax has an ally in the non Dublin resident, it is in the interests of the non dubliners that bin tax be defeated in Dublin. It would be a blow to the governments plans of cuts and privitisations and it could see the restoration of free bin collection across the country. This is what happened with the water tax.

by Paul - UCD Fri Jan 30, 2004 15:07

DAve what party are you affiliated to? I think that people observing this post should knwo this info in order to have a proper balanced understanding of where you are coming from.

by Dave Fri Jan 30, 2004 15:09

i'm afraid i have to go now...but in response - you can make analogies like the one you refered to about any situation.

The reality is that the vast majority of people oppose any tax at all... we have one of the lowest tax brackets in Europe. I agree when you infer that everything should be paid for by the exchequer. However the Irish public do not want higher taxes as has been revealed in numerous surveys incuding those taken by the ESRI the most recent in the Irish Times.

I would support the payment of everything including education, healthcare bin taxes to be from public finance such as the systems that operate in Canada and in the scandinavian countries. The trick is to convince the Irish public that if they wnat these things then the tax rate will have to be raised.

by Ed (real name) Fri Jan 30, 2004 15:21

You are dead right to say that Irish workers don't want any more increases in taxation. But you are completely wrong to say that this means they support stealth taxes such as the bin tax. What people want to see is big business paying their fair share. Currently approx 85% of taxation comes from the PAYE worker, big business pays just 15%. This is when nearly 60% of wealth produced goes to profit and onlt 40% on wages. People want taxation justice. With a just taxation system where business pays their fair share public services could be funded WITHOUT raising taxes on PAYE workers.

You didn't adress the flaw in your coutry Vrs Dublin argument. The hypothetical example I used can be extended to the bin tax. Free bin collection at the point of use is a gain that Dublin workers have, just as is the right to vote. Country people should not be opposing this free bin service but be agitating for free bin collection throughout the country.

by Dave Spotter Fri Jan 30, 2004 17:34

Dave McCoy is it true you are a FF member? The Students you represent deserve to know. We also deserve where you got this "mandate" to oppose bin tax protesters even when they are thrown into jail unjustly.

Dave McCoy: would you break a High Court injunction that is taken out to prevent students from protesting? If you had any balls you would and you would be willing to go to jail.

Please answer the question Dave McCoy: would you break a High Court injunction that is taken out to prevent students from protesting?

by Harry Stanton Fri Jan 30, 2004 18:02

I think it would be the height of irresponsibility to encourage students to commit an offence, particularly against a basically trivial issue like the bin tax.

The problem with the bin tax issue is that you should bloody well be paying it, because if Ireland continues its 'out of sight, out of mind' approach to waste disposal, then the environment will suffer. The rest of Ireland pays it. What is so special abotu the big smoke that it deserves to be different?

So the issue is about stealth taxes, is it? The issue of stealth taxes is one you deal with in the Oireachtas if you have lots of members returned to the Dáil.

What's that, lefties? You don't? God, that must mean the majority of people oppose your ideology. That is shocking, that people would rather go about their business and be constructive about the environment and their responsibilities to the state than, say, get locked up by An Garda Siochana for violent protest.

I am satisfied that you guys are an irrelevance. I'm satisfied to the extent that I could conceivably walk up to a man on the street and say "you know those guys I thought were an irrrelevance? Well, I'm now satisfied to an extent about the whole thing."

Then we come to the issue of opportunism, don't we?

You guys make me laugh, in the same way my wife does.

Harry

by Harry Stanton Sr. Fri Jan 30, 2004 18:07

Below is somthing that Harry's father wrote 20 years ago:

Nelson Mandela is just a common criminal. Whay the hell are all these lefties looking for his release. For heaven's sake he broke the law.

If he does not like it why doesn't he just get more people in the Parliament. Of course, he's just an irrelevance.

Mandela should just stop his antics and stop encouraging people to break the law.

Damn lefties are irrelevant!

by as4 Fri Jan 30, 2004 18:28

The law on the bin tax is crazy. Just in the summer it would have been illegal for the council to leave behind uncollected waste, in theory a householder could have sought an injunction to force the council to collect waste even if they had not paid the tax. Then all of a sudden the government change the law to reverse the situation. The law is not some kind of eternal truth, it is made and changed to suit the ruling powers. To make a statement that it is irresponsible or morally wrong to break any law is stupid. Dave McCoy and 'Harry Stanton, what do you say to our great grandparents and grandparents who broke the law in the process of winning the right to vote and independence. James Connolly 'broke the law', the Chartists 'broke the law'. Even the founders of USI broke the law.

Regardless of how you feel about bin tax, the fact is the laws used against the protesters were draconian. The injunctions taken out essentially ban the anti bin tax campaign Any leaflet, any meeting, any speech and protest that is carried out in opposition to the non collection policy is in breach of the injunction. technically if you attend a public meeting about the bin tax you could be thrown in prison for a month. How can any democrat support these laws? How can anyone say this is just?

these same laws could be used against the USI and the student movement. Say next year the government bring in fees and in reply the USI organise occupations and demonstrations. The government could go to the courts and take out injunctions on the SUs that would mean jail if the SUs participated in occupations. What would you do if tis happened? Would you break this precious 'law' of yours?

BTW
The bin tax is not a trivial matter. The movement against the bin tax and for taxation justice is massive. It is something that the establishment has seriously underestimated, FF/FG even have started to believe their own propaganda and will be given a rude awakening on the 11th of June I'm sure. Obviously USI bureacrats are very removed from the working class areas of Dublin so share the establishments view of bin tax.

On recycling. Bin Tax is not about the environment. The real polluters are big business. The householder only produces a little under 2% of waste. Only 15% of what goes into landfill comes from the householder. The real polluters are big business, the packaging industry, the building industry and Agriculture. Yet who gets the brunt of waste taxes? Of course it the householder, while big business gets away with tax amnesties and tax breaks. If this government were serious about recycling and the environment why will they not invest in recycling? Ireland has one of the lowest levels of recycling facilities in Europe. Look at the way the government let Irish Glass Bottlers go bust. Bin Tax is not an environmental tax.

by A Red Block Fri Jan 30, 2004 18:37

"Regardless of how you feel about bin tax, the fact is the laws used against the protesters were draconian."

Agreed. All those who felt the full rigour of the law understood its draconian nature.
Of course this does not include the signers of undertakings.

by tactics Fri Jan 30, 2004 19:04

Choosing not to be sent down was a tactical question as well as a personal one. Some people had family and work commitments, I don't blame these people for signing undertakings not to breach the injunction. It was also tactical, would it have been worthwhile for people who had very close relations with the bin men to be sent down? Would it have been worthwhile to be sent down while there was absolutly no media attention and the councils were about to retreat in a few days time?

by UCD leftie Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:33

USI officers especially the western area officer and Priestly have no backbone. They have no principles other than looking after themselves. Actually doing something effective on fees and cutbacks would mean harming their own FG/FF careers and would mean a bit of hard work on their parts. I reckon its a good thing that USI are in financial meltdown, bring on the recievers!!

Lets build a real union that will take on the government!!

by pat c Sat Jan 31, 2004 18:48

my point was: was the poster representing CFE. also if ben had broken any USI mandate then that should be pointed to.

by Icantunderstand Sun Feb 01, 2004 15:42

Pat why do you always feel the need to leap to the defence of the bureacracy (USI officers/LP bureacrats) when they are under attack from the left?

by The Insider Sun Feb 01, 2004 18:54

...Just a thought.

A significant number (though certainly not all) of critiques of USI are based on nonsense and lies, like "discodisco's" earlier comments.

Critiquing someone on the basis of something that is not true shows a weakness in your argument.

by UCD left Mon Feb 02, 2004 15:05

It seems Davy 'FF' McCoy has been defeated in debate by the USI left and has retreated off indymedia!

by toryboi Tue Feb 03, 2004 00:49

"maybe he believes criticism to be based on facts, not garbage. "

Well it is well documented FACT that Ben Archibald is a member of the conservative Party. Contact the man himself, he will not hide it, he is open about his membership of the tories. So Pat is not defending some idea of 'good journalism', he is defending disgusting bureacrats

by Working Class Hero - none Wed Feb 04, 2004 15:27

I mean who are you anyway? No one has even heard of you...
Seriously, if ya all spent as much time tryin to get over yourselves and not be bitter against the whole "System" and learned to accept your middle class upbringings, instead of creating things to give out about cause ya all had nice, comfortable upbringings than maybe you wouldn't have to be so angry all the time. IU mean, have ya ever listened to yourselves, really. You're all the biggest shower of moaners I've ever heard in my life. Go get a part time job or do work for charity. There's more to life than being bitter. Especially if ya have no reason to be....

by trinity gossip Fri Feb 06, 2004 16:47

Hear nominations are now open for anyone who wants to run for USI positions (even those that won't exist at the end of March.)Does anyone else think this is a bit crazy? Know a few trinity sabbatical officers were rumoured to be running, but doubt they're stupid enough to work for free for an organisation that seems to be in real trouble.

by holy fuck - the holy fuck church of holy fuck Sun Feb 08, 2004 18:35 plagueofmankind at yahoo dot ie

USI is fucked! now does anyone really give a toss, other than who was not considering going for a position in USI this year. most SUs got along fine all year without any help from USI and spent more time thinking bout how they could have spent all that money for affiliation on something more effective. Seriously, all SU should be up in arms and destroying USI, we gave them money to help us as an umbrella organisation and they had to use it to pay ever mounting debts and not actually to do some work. If i had inherited USI in the state Will Priestley did I would have thrown it all out in the open and resigned. SUs deserved to know their affiliation fees this year would be a waste as the USI was never going to last the year. SO ALL IN ALL HOLY FUCK ITS THE LONG INEVITABLE COLLAPSE OF A SHABBILLY RUN ORGANISATION< HOLY FUCK

by Johnny Bananas - [email protected] Sun Feb 08, 2004 22:32

I presume your joking....

by holy fuck - holy fuck church of holy fuck Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:48 plagueofmankind at yahoo dot ie

ummm, NO!

by magic_norhan Sun Feb 15, 2004 18:05

I think that Will Priestly has done an excellent job and it is a credit to him that he didn't resign that he stood back and tried to manage the financial situation. We need a national union, a strong one that can work on behalf of students USI is this and can conitinue to be this

Well done to all of this years officer board for working in these circumstnaces

by cynical student Mon Feb 16, 2004 00:36

are you crazy? USI is SO weak this year. yeah, maybe will has done a good job, but as for the rest of them....

and do you honestly think USI will be so great when its down to two officers? I think not. The organisation needs to radically reform if it is to be a proper national union. Just don't see that there's enough belief in USI among students to make this happen. My local SU has done way more than USI this year to fight cutbacks. Situation is hardly likely to get better with only two officers.

by holy fuck - holy fuck church of holy fuck Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:31 plagueofmankind at yahoo dot ie

why do USI, an organisation in financial trouble continue to run expensive poster campaigns?
why do they send these posters to colleges by costly express post when there is no hurry and normal post would do fine?
why have USI not set up a company to help put structure and protection on its financial activities?
why are members of finance committee often the last to know about the crap financial situation?
why did USI not learn from the past?
why have they not done a better job to reassure students and SUs around the country that although they are up shit creek, they will be back down soon, rather than many presuming they have built a mud cabin up there and will slowly cease to exist ???????????????

by not a ucd student Thu Mar 04, 2004 17:37

As former president of a small college, I have taken an interest usi, and you seem to be asking all the correct questions, to your own mind any way. Here is the real challenge. Do you have the answers?