SEA to Contest Euros

by Michael - SEA Mon Jan 19, 2004 17:03 seaderry at hotmail dot com Derry

Please - give the full story, not your version of it....Am I right in thinking that the mythological Janus was a two-faced creature, so maybe this is a piss-take. Below is the letter which the SEA has sent out to all and sundry on the broad Left in the North. Let people make up their own minds. As to why we decided to announce that Eamonn is willing to stand and that we will go ahead if no unity slate if forthcoming? It is because of the long months spent last spring and summer up and down the road to Belfast trying to get some unity on the Left only to find it scuppered by the parties of the Old Left which chose to ignore the overwhelming majority of non-aligned people who want to see some political movement on the Left. Their minds need concentrating, so we thought best do it. Please note that we are upfront in saying "If no one else is willing to come along with us we are minded to go forward on our own. In that circumstance, Eamonn McCann is willing to stand. However, we realise that a broad alliance covering the North would be hugely preferable." We mean it. The Convention is open to all who are anti-war and anti-capitalist and reject both nationalism and unionism. Read the letter below and get a flavour of what we're about.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

We are writing to invite you to a Convention of the Left to be held in Derry on February 14th 2004. The purpose is to discuss a united Left slate in the June 2004 European election. The SEA sees it as an imperative that there should be a left alternative in the field in June. If no one else is willing to come along with us we are minded to go forward on our own. In that circumstance, Eamonn McCann is willing to stand. However, we realise that a broad alliance covering the North would be hugely preferable. We are very open to argument from others as to how best we can jointly achieve this.

We envisage an electoral alliance of different parties, campaigning groups and individuals offering voters a radical, anti-sectarian alternative to parties based on one or other of "the two communities." The results of the SEA interventions in Foyle and East Londonderry by Eamonn McCann and Marion Baur make plain that a credible, united left campaign can attract a level of support which cannot be derided or ignored. Without such an intervention, the European election, for practical purposes, will amount to yet another "dual referendum" to determine who will champion each community vis-a-vis the other. It will take a united, broadly-based campaign to make a Left intervention credible.

The issues bringing together socialists, environmentalists, defenders of the public sector, anti-racists, women's rights campaigners and anti-war groups in other countries affect us here too. Millions of Europeans rallied to these issues in 2003, particularly in anti-war demonstrations on February 15th. Our Convention marks the first anniversary of those huge protests - which saw one of the biggest ever marches in Belfast that did not reflect sectarian divisions.

We must break out of the circular argument which holds that Northern Ireland is so polarised along communal lines that there's no point trying seriously to challenge its communal politics. A June campaign would offer a chance to link day-to-day local concerns to major issues being fought out at European level. Issues of water charges and environmental protection cannot be understood other than in a European perspective. The rise in racism on our streets is connected to the "Fortress Europe" project. Local civil rights issues now arise in parallel with the crack-down across Europe associated with the "war on terror." Privatisation schemes in our schools and hospitals are entangled with European directives on freeing market forces. And so on.

It is only in the context of the fight for a social Europe and against a neo-liberal Europe that we can pursue these issues in Northern Ireland. The notion that a better Northern Ireland and a better Ireland is possible is an element in the broader notion that another Europe is possible. As to when and by whom a serious political effort is to be made to bring this about---if not now, when? If not us, who?

The Convention will be held at the Verbal Arts Centre, located on the City Walls at Bishop Street, Derry. A crèche will be provided. A more detailed Agenda will be issued shortly.

Yours sincerely

Marion Baur and Eamonn Mc Cann

by RBB4MEP? Mon Jan 19, 2004 17:08

It seems that the SWP are running Eamonn McCann for the 3 seat Northern Ireland constituency in the European Parliament Elections. Is there any truth to the rumour that they will be running Richard Boyd Barrett in the Dublin constituency? Even though Joe Higgins will be the main man in terms of the anti-establishment vote. If not in Dublin will they be running elsewhere in Ireland?

by Michael - SEA Mon Jan 19, 2004 17:13 Derry

The SEA is NOT the SWP. Yes, the SWP makes up about one third of its membership but there is a strong and vibrant non-SWP element that does not allow them to dominate. Actually, they don't try - bend over backwards not to - and we all work well together. Yes, Eamonn McCann is a member of the SWP - do you think the rest of us should cold-shoulder him cos of this? Cop yourselves on and enter the real world.

by RBB4MEP? Mon Jan 19, 2004 17:20

Eamonn McCann would be an SWP candidate as he is a member of that party. He is running as an SEA candidate, I fully accept that. When the SWP had a member of theirs running as an MDC candidate in Zimbabwe that person was still an SWP candidate, and when elected be was an SWP MP (he went on to loose his seat getting under 100 votes at next election.)

by John Meehan Mon Jan 19, 2004 17:29

The SEA initiative is welcome - it would be good if named identifiable contributors could express their views, and a constructive discussion unfolds on this thread.

My advice to Michael and other SEA supporters is to ignore and boycott anonymous shit-stirrers.

One question :

Has the SEA discussed linking the proposed 6 County candidacy with the EU wide campaign of the European Anti-Capitalist Left (EACL)? I previously posted the text on this site - the Irish Socialist Party signed the platform.

It is also endorsed by the Scottish Socialist Party, the English/Welsh SWP, Portuguese and Danish anti-capitalist left alliances and the Ligue Communiste Révolutionnaire (LCR) of France (section of the United Secretariat ofthe Fourth International).

The platfrom expresses strong opposition to the draft EU Constitution.

The French electoral scene is specially interesting for the left at the moment; a joint platform of the LCR and another Trotskyist organisation, Lutte Ouvriere (LO), is showing very well in opinion polls at the moment, following on from the 11 per cent vote for far left candidates in the last French Presidential Election poll.

An early test of the LCR-LO platform comes on March 20 when local elections take place in France.

by Janus Mon Jan 19, 2004 17:54

Hmmm, calm down Michael. Take deep breaths and think happy thoughts.

Firstly, I welcome the SEA decision, more the merrier and so on. As for giving the full story, I provided the link, it's what it's there for.

I do think however that naming McCann as the candidate unless another can be found means not a great deal of effort will go into finding another, not necessarily out of political conspiracy, but simple human nature that a goodish candidate exists and so should be backed. Whether it is conspiracy politics or not, the point stands. The chances of the SEA running someone other than McCann are somewhere between zero and none.

As for SEA domination by the SWP, I have neither met nor spoken to a member of the SEA as far as I am aware. I can only make a judgement based on what I have heard from people I respect and on my observations of SWP activities over 15 years of political activism.

I am still interested as to whether the SEA would consider trying to draw together a national platform as well. A common national platform that would have Joe Higgins contesting in Dublin and Eamon McCann contesting in the Six Counties would be a massive achievement.

by boggler Mon Jan 19, 2004 17:58

If not him then Ed Horgan

or Mary Kelly perhaps?

by Mary Tonner - student, dublin Mon Jan 19, 2004 22:45

The radical left keep telling us just how bad the Norths and Souths Parliament is and even the European Parliament but why on earth do people like Higgins and McCann give it legitimacy by joining running in their elections. I don't understand it? Surely time would be better spent outside on the streets condemning it and bringing it down around their knees.

When I read about revolution and the way in which radical parties you would think at least someone is on our side.

But then you look at the comfortable jobs, positions and lifestyles that these people lead, why would they want to change things?

by Carlos Mon Jan 19, 2004 23:09

"I am still interested as to whether the SEA would consider trying to draw together a national platform as well. A common national platform that would have Joe Higgins contesting in Dublin and Eamon McCann contesting in the Six Counties would be a massive achievement."

Seem to recall it is the SWP that is pro socialist unity and Socialist Party that refuses all advances.

by iosaf - ipsiphi Mon Jan 19, 2004 23:50

Her excellency Mary (1) is presently in India as you know for the World Social Forum, and is accompanied there by Caoimhe Butterly and Mary Kelly.
Just for a moment, ponder the present odds on whether Caoimhe or Mary (Kelly) if in Ireland at the protests doing the thing they do, saying the things they say, and hanging out with the people they love, they would be subject to political harrassment by the Garda Siochana.
I think those odds appear to be quite high.
The Gardaí having demostrated consistently over many years that they do not like "political activism".
Some would term them with the "C" word, which doesn't stand for Caoimhe but something else, something so terrible, so awful that men get lost there. Meanwhile, her excellency Mary (2) has "let it be known", that she is thinking of "seeking another term".
Now for your extended political erudition, "let it be known" is a euphimism for "gossip" and chess playing. The usual parlour games.

I would like to second the nomination above-
and thus "am letting it be known"...

Mary Kelly for Her Excellency Mary (3).

{sorry Ed, but it's a woman's job}

by The Jackal Tue Jan 20, 2004 00:24

The SWP is so "pro-socialist unity", that it stood a candidate against Des Derwin in SIPTU and its members have spent the last week spreading lies about the Socialist Party's candidate in Dundrum no longer being active in the area.

The SWP are full of words about "socialist unity". Their actions speak differently, and that's why nobody else wants to touch them with a long stick.

by mockle Tue Jan 20, 2004 02:04

Maybe it's just me, but during the last elections most of the Derry Anti War Coalition were roped into McCann's election campaign, and there was no more word of DAWC since. Suddenly there was a meeting called last week, at the same time as McCann an Baur issued the above statement.

It must be another of them coincidences.

by Jim Monaghan Tue Jan 20, 2004 09:33

Granted the SWP are the most obvious anti unity force for all their lip service. But and it is an important but, the SEA and McCann are not that bad. There are genuine non SWP people in the SEA. Besides McCann is one of the better SWPers. Success ( as in a reasonable vote) for the SEA may cause a healthy development in the SWP. Remember their manouvre against Derwin failed. I am sure that the good people in the SWP have learned lessons form it. For all their faults they are not as hardened as the ols Stalinist parties or even some of the Trotskyist sects.
A pity Joe Higgins did not put himself forward as a unity candidate in Dublin, still he is the voice of the radical opposition and the SWP should not oppose him.
What of the other Left parties, the CP ( It still exists), the stickies of the WP etc. What are they up to.
With a drive for unity we need a honest debate on the way forward.I accept that the National question is to a degree on the back burner but it has not gone away. But this and other debates should be had on a friendly non denounciatory way, accepting that the holy grail of the one true way is not as obvious as it seems to some.
And this should include the WSM and GNAW, unity is not just electoral.

by Janus Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:45

From my reading of various pieces of correspondence on the internet it does seem as if the SWP make the approaches for setting up an electoral pact and the SP require them to admit that every criticism they ever aimed at the SP for contesting elections was wrong before negotiations can begin.

Frankly, I think that has a lot more to do with the SP knowing that forming a electoral pact with the SWP would, from party grounds, be a mistake in that it would give the SWP access to resources, credibility and personnel they don't have. It would also give them a say in things like candidate selection and the like. How much do you think the SP want a situation where their local election candidates in Fingal need to be cleared with the SWP?

I think however, the European Elections create a space where something could be done to move in that direction. Leave the Locals aside, the best that can be hoped for is that people do not run against each other. But if Higgins was willing to run on a platform, not necessarily called the SEA, with McCann in the Six and maybe one or two others elsewhere if it can be managed, and if this was done SOLELY in terms of Europe, it would be a small enough, but highly significant first step.

by Hebe Tue Jan 20, 2004 12:02

"Frankly, I think that has a lot more to do with the SP knowing that forming a electoral pact with the SWP would, from party grounds, be a mistake in that it would give the SWP access to resources, credibility and personnel they don't have."

That certainly would not be the case in the Occupied Six Counties. The SWP would be lending much needed credibility to the SP there. McCann got 2,257 votes the SP got 167 and 176. The SP would also only have about 30 members in the north and thats paper members.

by Janus Tue Jan 20, 2004 13:13

No one is going to convince me the McCann vote was anything, ANYTHING, but personal. And people trying to convince others of this are either extremely dishonest or so politically naive they believe their own propaganda. The SEA vote in East Derry suggest a more accurate reflection of SWP/SEA support would be about the same level as the SP polled. Neither the SP nor the SWP should be thinking about fighting for bragging rights on this one.

by Hebe Tue Jan 20, 2004 13:41

I agree that the McCann vote is largely personal but so is the Higgins vote in the South. The odd thing is that the SP insist that McCanns vote is personal but claim that the Joe Higgins vote is a party one. But anyway, the SP have no one in the North who can even get a personal vote. Even a leading trade union figure like Barbour could only get 167 votes.

No matter what spin is put on it, 2,257 is still bigger than 167. But none of that addresses the drop in SP membership, they are now down to about 20 active members in the 6 counties.

by belfasta Tue Jan 20, 2004 13:42

Part of McCanns vote was personnal but another more important factor is the growth of left republican opposition in Derry.

by Janus Tue Jan 20, 2004 14:31

I risk a swift kicking from McCann partisans for this, but I think Higgins' vote could more genuinely be said to be something other than a personal vote.

No insult to McCann, but electoral politics has hardly been his focus over the last number of years as it has been for Higgins, for well over ten years now.

While McCann was writing articles for the establishment press, Higgins was getting his hands dirty in Dublin West and helping to build an organisation that now has a TD, two councillors and a decent chance of having two TDs and several councillors in five years time.

McCann and Higgins have contributed to the Left in different ways, Higgins through campaign work on the ground in Dublin West and electoral politics, McCann through his writings.

The SP built their vote, and in my opinion, politicised some part of it to a party vote. McCann's vote was no such thing and if the last contributor thinks the growth of a left wing opposition in Derry has more to do with the SEA vote in Foyle than the candidate, then I think he or she should remain annonymous to protect oneself from ridicule.

If the SWP are going to forge ahead in the Six on the basis that their support is around 5.5% in each constituency on the basis of McCann's numbers they're going to make a shambles of it.

As for membership, I don't care frankly. A pissing contest over who has the most members merely obscures the fact that neither has any support. A united front might generate something that could be politically relevant in an election.

And yes, this means the SP putting up with thr SWP but since it means the SWP putting up with the incoherent lunacy of Peter Hadden I suspect they might be giving up more.

by In agreement Tue Jan 20, 2004 14:35

But christ I can hear the puppies chomping at the bit. Hang on tight - it could be a bumpy ride.
Watch how all the positive stuff will get ignored.

by Hebe Tue Jan 20, 2004 14:43

But in that case it would point to the McCann vote being a more political one. McCann has not held clinics or carried out the parish pump activities that Joe did. It would be interesting to see the result if the SP were to run Kevin McLoughlin instead of Joe Higgins. Then we would know if itwas a personal vote or a party vote.

by Herbe Tue Jan 20, 2004 14:56

It would have been interesting to see what SEA would have got had they run Goretti.

by Hebe Tue Jan 20, 2004 15:36

The SEA would have gotten a much lower vote if Goretti had stood. My point was that the vote gained by McCann was more political because he doesnt have a history of fixing up peoples problems with the welfare.

by Janus Tue Jan 20, 2004 16:28

How many times have we all seen Joe Higgins on prime time television? I can assure you, you're not going to have to use all your fingers and toes.

How many times has Joe been given a column of his own in establishment papers? I would suggest a limited number of times, if ever.

This is about PROFILE. It is about NAME RECOGNITION.

Look at Royston Brady, does anyone know what his personal politics are? Does anyone care? He's playing for name recognition, column space.

If McCann had written everything he has written and done everything he has done, and been on television every time he has been on, as a member of the CSP, or as a fashion correspondent, trust me, he would have still picked up a massive personal vote.

What people, especically on the left, fail to appreciate is that the majority of votes cast in elections are not based on political beliefs. They are based on clientilism, work rate, geography, family and friend connections, recognition and profile. The sooner the extreme left begin to understand how and why people vote, the sooner their election results will appear even slightly credible.

by Hebe Tue Jan 20, 2004 16:36

What McCann got was an Anti Imperialist Left Republcan vote and to a lesser extent a Socialist vote. He got the vote largely because of the campaigns he has participated in. McCann has always pushed an Anti Imperialist and Socialist line in his public appearances. Even his sports columns lean to the left.

McCann certainly did not have the media attention that Jim Barbour had in the year leading up to the elections.

by Janus Tue Jan 20, 2004 17:03

This is actually quite worrying. I think you need to think about this.

I am not trying to do down McCann. Nor am I trying to do down the SWP or the SEA or anything like that. I am not trying to denigrate the vote got in the elections. This isn't some sort of sectarian bitch-fest.

But, and seriously, seriously think about this, a political party cannot, cannot deal in anything but reality if it is to plan ahead in a sensible fashion.

If you go forward from here on the basis that McCann's vote was an endorsement of his politics in anything other than a minor way, you're making a mistake so huge, that the very fact you could think of making it reminds us all again of why the extreme left does so bad in elections.

I can understand the SWP pushing the line for propaganda purposes, but I hope, that whatever stance you feel you need to take on Indymedia in opposition to what you think is an attack, you privately, are paying some sort of attention to what I am saying.

Were some of the people who voted for McCann radical, militant, revolutionary, republican, socialists? Undoubtedly, and in the absolute best case scenario, this could have been as many as 500 of them.

But don't try and pretend this is something it's not. Good? Yes. A hopeful indication for the future? Absolutely. Ground on which something serious might be built? Quite possibly.

But no more than that. Realising this, accepting it, dealing with it and building on it is not a defeat, nor does it minimise the achievement, it is a serious and rational examination of what has been achieved, and the progress that can be made on top of it.

I hope that whatever response you make on indymedia, you at least think about it privately.

by Hebe Tue Jan 20, 2004 17:23

I am not a SWP member. Go back and read what I actually wrote. You will see that I have few illusions. I just dont think that McCann got his votes because of his sports writing. Neither do I think that 2,257 Derry voters now agree that the former USSR was State Capitalist.

by Jim Monaghan Tue Jan 20, 2004 17:29

A left candidate in each constituency North and South would be great. McCann in the North and Higgins in Dublin would be a start.
But it is a pity that this looks impossible across Europe with the collapse of the French LCR unity push. The Italian Refundis have opted for an alliance with the old CPs.
I wonder will the CPI put someone up. There is European money to be got.
Elections do effect consciousness. Maybe not as much as we would like.Strike waves probably have a deeper effect as least for a while.
A leftwing campaign that does something different to the Royston Brady crap would have an effect. This would be small, but if anyone is hoping for a flash of magic and an instant change in attitudes or consciousness they are going to be disappointed. There is no short cut. There will be the usual opportunities like the antiwar movement, strikes, elections etc. but the road to breaking the hold of the bourgeois parties, nevermind the left fakirs will take a lot of time and effort. In fact the problem with the SWP and many of their rivals is that they predict the great breakthrough on a monthly if not a weekly basis, exhausting their memberships in the process.
Even at this late stage an alliance built around McCann and Higgins would be a modest and heartening step forward.Both have some creditability. Perhaps Seamus Healy, or the other candidate in the later byelection, could provide a Munster element
I beleive that there is a vote out there. I, also belive that there is a silent majority which is antiwar, distrusts Bertie and Ian Duncan Kenny (what is his first name) et al but does not have much of an idea where to go from there.Given the alphabet soup can we blame them for being enticed back to the Labour Party or worse. Personally I find Michael D almost as awful as the current imcumbent in the Park. A pretend leftie if ever there was one.

by belfasta Tue Jan 20, 2004 18:08

McCann has a very high left republican standing inDerry and an extremely high profile mainly around the bloody sunday enquiry. In a euro election his vote is likely to be squeezed by SF particularly outside Derry as there aremore illusions in them in other areas of the north but his Derry vote alone would be a good start to rally a serious republican left opposition.

by William Millar Tue Jan 20, 2004 18:17

Come on the CWI!!
I don't live in Belfast and I want a candidate to vote for - not that trendy leftie McCann.

by Realist Tue Jan 20, 2004 18:55

Be serious for a moment. There is no prospect of a joint SP/SWP slate for anything.

The SWP have nothing to offer the SP except for McCann's personal vote. The SP know that, and therefore they know that an alliance with the SWP isn't in their narrow interests.

If the SP got a sudden unlikely burst of political altruism and agreed to an alliance, it would take all of about ten minutes before the SWP shafted them on some issue or other. It's in their nature and all but the blindest optimist knows it.

by Watcher Tue Jan 20, 2004 19:10

That personal or otherwise vote of the bould Eamon is 2,000 votes more than the SP would get. Seems to me it would be taken into account. Or else the SP will have to advise their supporters to abstain in the European elections or vote for David Ervine.

by Duncan Tue Jan 20, 2004 21:23

and there is the little issue of the SWP and Sp not agreeing with each other on political questions!