BNP coming to UCC

by 20 something - student Tue Jan 13, 2004 17:54

can anyone in UCC stop them under insitmenet hate and bringing the college into disrute. The college authorities banned the BNP in Trinity.

by Murf Tue Jan 13, 2004 18:12

UCC authorities have no intention of or desire to stop this meeting going ahead as far as I can see. They were aware of the invitation to the BNP that was originally intended to lead to a meeting in Dec and they did nothing. They took no action to prevent the invitation to Irving in 1999. I imagine there is no chance of their doing anything other than mouthing platitudes about 'free speech' and then suspending the left-wing societies that disrupt the meeting.

by Acid Tue Jan 13, 2004 19:45

Is it a debate or a speech? Two very different things to a number of people.

by news Tue Jan 13, 2004 21:19

sp and sy are running the anti bnp camping NEWS TO THE MANY OTHERS AT THE MEETINGS

by Sorry Wed Jan 14, 2004 03:00

Maybe you should read a little more closely. The article said that the SP and SY are running "a" campaign against the BNP visit and have taken the initiative to launch a broad based coalition.

In other words it clearly distinguishes between "a" campaign that SP and SY are running and a "broad based coalition" that they took the initiative to set up but are not running.

by Cork Anti-War Campaign Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:31

At last nights meeting of the Cork Anti-War Campaign we received confirmation that the Law Society of UCC has announced (very quietly) that the Tony Wentworth meeting will go ahead on the Thursday (evening) 29th January in the Boole Lecture Theatre.

CAWC is once again astounded at the short-sightedness and arrogance of the Law Soc. We call on them to withdraw the invitation at once. Failing that, we have decided to support the call from the SP and others to prevent the meeting from taking place.
We are now caling on all interested parties (Gay rights, Travellers, 'ethnic minorities', the left and all civic minded people) to organise for the protest.

A meeting will take place upstairs in The Phoenix bar (second next door to the Lobby bar) next Tuesday night at 8pm.

The protest itself will assemble at the main gates of UCC on Thursday 29th at 6pm. It is hoped that some activists will travel from other cities and towns for the protest.

THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE TO HELP:

1 Contact anyone you know in UCC and Cork and tell them about the meeting and protest.

2 UCC staff could organise a petition of staff similar to the Kissenger letter.

3 UCC General Services (SIPTU members) could withdraw their services for the night.

4 Bring banners and sound to the protest -the oil drum barrels were very effective during the Kissenger protest.

5 Organisations could issue press statement on the issue to the Cork media in particular.

6 Lobby the Law Soc or UCC to cancel the event.

7 Organisations could add their name to the list of groups opposed to the event.

8 UCC students and soc's who are opposed tot he event should contact the CAWC (no below).

etc. etc.

If you would like to get more involved contact the CAWC at 087-9290950 or any of the other groups involved.

by jaywalker Wed Jan 14, 2004 15:03

For any of you travelling to the protest, here is a map of UCC.

by murf Wed Jan 14, 2004 15:30

its a debate

by Drbinoche Wed Jan 14, 2004 21:31

They could only really be inciting hatred if they said something that was truely horrible. I mean they can outline their plans all they want and people will listen. Some out of intrigue, some out of disgust and others just out of boredom, either way people will attend, and I don't think anyone has a right to say if they can speak or not, except the Uni or the people who invited them over. If you guys don't agree with what they say or preach, then don't attend and don't listen or read anything they submit. Your choice. If others decide to follow them, its not your fault, its what they WANT to do. I don't see em threatening anyone with violence if they don't attend the debate.

Or why not bring along a bunch of the people they hate the most to sit in the crowd and stare at em. That way you don't ruin it for people who are interested in what they have to say, even if its to use against em later, and you will probably unnerve the speaker. You don't always have to do a loud protest to get your message across.

by murf Wed Jan 14, 2004 22:40

Drbinoche, what you are saying is nonsense and only serves to betray a complete lack of understanding on your part of what fascism is and what the BNP represent. Those people in Cork and in UCC, myself included, who oppose the invitation to the BNP, do not do so simply because they are racist or because we disagree with them. Aine ni Chonaill falls into both of those categories but no effort was made to actually prevent a meeting involving her from going ahead. The reason we oppose the BNP meeting going ahead is that it will be used by the fascists to attempt to recruit a few people in Cork and establish a group here - and if that happens then minorities a la blacks and gays as well as the left are under threat of physical attack.

by golda Thu Jan 15, 2004 18:14

the BNP are evil, and very ignorant and stupid like all other Fascists. So are you underestimating Irsh peoples intelligence enough to think they would actually join this organisation?

firstly, THEY ARE SASANACH. so u really think irish people would join a British party?
well, if they came here we could expose the
fact that

1. they believe the irish have no right to nationhood, they think we are racially the same, and we have no culture of our own.
WRONG.
With hamoglobin 1 blood testing (used to identify different strains of the Caucasian race) done on irish males a few yearrs ago, it reveals we have a 90% rating, unlike the English and Scots who have only a 445% rating. Our closest relatives are infact the Basques and Welsh.

2. They believe in Imperialism
well, when they realise that we Irish were subjected to Imperialism for hundreds of years, they will realist they won't fit in here.

3. they want a united federal "nation" of the British Isles.
NOT A CHANCE. need i elaborate on that?
do u think we would link back up with a state that inflicted so much pain and suffering on the Irish for so long, and attempted to destroy our culture, religious beliefs, and language?
Sounds like what the Nazis did to the Jews to me.......

4. [contentless insult edited out by R Isible - 1 of IMC editorial].

so, come on over BNP, if u dare. we will put in front of you a black man, a Jew, a victim of British brutality in the North, and we'll see how brave you are. go back up to your friends in the LVF and UDA if u want to go anywhere on this island that will give u a warm reception.

by Drbinoche Thu Jan 15, 2004 20:11

My point is not that they are not fascists. I am not saying they are not pricks. I think they are all morons. They have nothing worthwhile to talk about. Nevertheless, they have been asked over to take part in a debate by the UCC Law society. What the Law Society hope to accomplish I have no idea, but nonetheless, they have been invited over and they have the right to come over as they have commited no crimes in Ireland.

If you guys wanna complain and hold a protest, the go right ahead, but do it a bit more imaginatively than normal and put members of the public that they dislike into the crowd. I won't be there as I gain nothing from going.

They are not trying to form an Irsih wing. If someone goes along and decides they speak for him, then thats their decision and you guys can do nothing about that. When that person decides to start their own facist organisation, then protest that group. Will Ethnic minorities face problems, maybe. Do ethnic minorities face problems in some parts of Ireland anyway. Yeah, but thats not only the BNPs fault. In fact the majority of racism in this country has nothing to do with the BNP. So them coming over is not gonna stop racism at all. Its just gonna ruin the Law Societys night. I have to ask again, are you sure the Law Society are not trying to ambush em or something??

by murf Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:28

I see - so you can state categorically that they are not trying to start an "Irish wing" can you? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by Irish wing but I expect you are correct if you mean they are not interested in setting up an organisation called "Irish BNP". If you are suggesting that they have no interest in recruiting people to a fascist organisation and would not be happy to offer support, advice & assistance to such a group then you are quite simply talking crap.

I would love to know what you consider their motivation in coming to UCC...the love of free speech, for whose defence they are so noted? A belief that they can win this debate and be accepted and loved? I doubt it's either of these. On the other hand it would make a lot of sense for the organised far-right in Britain to be angling to establish a similar group here at a time when there is increased racial tension, wouldn't you say? And if you allow these fascists to be introduced to their target audience then they have the opportunity to directly recruit - and I need hardly go into the likely consequences if that were to happen.

And what value, exactly, do you imagine there would be in putting people the BNP don't like into the audience? Do you imagine that Tony Wentworth, organiser of BNP youth, is a sensitive soul who would be deeply touched and troubled by such a thing?

And with re peaceful protest allowing the meeting to proceed - do you imagine that the BNP would so respect such a dignified move that they would consciously decide not to attempt to recruit, in a sort of homage? Or maybe they would be unable to believe their luck at getting a clear run?

by Umar Fri Jan 16, 2004 23:39

Why were the BNP banned from Trinity? This was not over the issue of bringing the college into disrepute or incitement to rascism. College authorities were unwilling to pay the security expenses for such a visit. If you are intent on negating free speech then learn from what others have done. Ensure that college authorities believe that a sizeable crowd will gather to demonstrate and inform college authorities that not all individuals protesting are reasonable persons, and quite possibly there are a couple of hotheads in the group who may attempt to cause some trouble. Hype it up even if there are only 3 of you, or less as the case may be, so that security costs begin to spiral. With the Minister for Education severely cutting back on college funding, the excercise of free speech hardly seems an efficient use of scarce college resources. In the end college authorities will always put their wallets before their values. Left groups can use this to their advantage if they are so inclined.

by Umar Fri Jan 16, 2004 23:43

On another note: I am waiting for the day when right wing groups in Irish college begin attempts to have far left groups banned from speaking on college campuses. That would include revolutionary socialists since are they not openly calling for mass treason or so the right wing would rightly argue. I suppose free speech is always a dangerous tool as someone will almost always be chipping away at your theories which nobody else is supposed to understand because they have been blinded?

by Drbinoche Sat Jan 17, 2004 16:53

Well fo course they are gonna try to recruit. Its what parties do. Jesus even when the Anti-War movement marches through town during a protest, they are attempting to recruit more people to their ideas and to their group. But they have the right to recruit. As I have said providing they do not incite racism, which can be done quite easily, they should be allowed to speak.

As for looking at history, I might just point out that that is bollox. To state that by allowing them to get a foothold here we'll have another rise of facism, is completely unprovable. It might happen, but there is as much chance that it won't happen. Your forgetting that there was alot of otehr reasons why Facism came to the front during the 30s and 40s. It was not a simple sweeping movement. It was building. Maybe it will build here, maybe not. I would say its highly unlikely, as conditions then are not the same as nowadays.

Lets twist it over, do you guys think you should have your right to speech. I think you should and yet I disagree with the majority of the things that the Anti-War movement and alot of the other movements represented here claim and do. I still think that providing you are not hurting anybody in the process, you can speak all you want. People will either follow you or not. When you attack someone, or attack something they own, then you have broken the law and should be punished. But until then you can protest all you want. You would br screaming blue bloody murder if they would not allow someone of the Nation of Islam or Louis Farrakan to speak. Even though their beliefes can be as racist as the BNP.

Also as for essentially blackmailing the college into postponing it or forbidding it, thats just wrong. You are removing peoples right to choose to either attend or not. They can either attend or they can protest, or they can go home and get a cup of tea. Either way the have the RIGHT to choose what they want to do and by you guys getting rid of the debate you are getting closer to becoming like the BNP. Essentially you guys are saying that if you don't agree with someones politics, they should not have the right to speak it.

My point of putting minorities and gay people into the crowd, was to see if the BNP had the balls to stand up and say what they say with these people present. If you can confront em and make em say exactly what they think of Gay people and Ethnic Minorities, in front of others, you might stop people from joining em or from agreeing with em. Show someones insanity and people are less likely to follow em.

by Cabhog Sat Jan 17, 2004 22:42

Communism enslaved the people of Russia for 70 years, the people of China for 50, Eastern Europe for 35 and many other places in the world.

Abuse of communists ideology has allowed tens of millions of people to die throughout the world form Stalin's purges, to Mao's Great Leap and Cultural Revolution, Pol Pot's Year One and so on. far more people have dies from the abuse of communist and marxist ideology than have ever died from similar abuses of fascism.

therefore not only should we ban those proponents of fascism, the BNP and their ilk, we should ban those proponents of communism and marxism.

If you ask Haider's lot, they'll claim that they have no truck with fascism, yet it is clear that if they got their way the road to the holocaust would be re-opened again. Similarily the denials of the BNP of their fascist pre-tensions should be treated as fluff.

They should be banned immediatley and forwith. OPPOSSE ALL PROPENENTS OF IDEOLOGICAL TERROR>

Despite the protestations of the SP, SWP, and their ilk, it is clear that if the 'revolution' of the working class occured, thepossibility that the resulting regimes would be throwbacks to those of Mao, Pot and Stalin is quite high. Therefore we should ban all propenents of Communism and marxism as well

by murf Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:54

It is clear, cabhog, that the SP & SWP would introduce Stalinism/Maoism if they ever gained any power? Funny, it sounds like a load of shit to me! Maybe you could elucidate the whole 'clarity' thing for us? Then again....no, you couldn't could you?