UDA progressives

by Not Surpirsed Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:20

... are we surprised that they are attacking non whites considering they cant stand an awful lot of whites. Biggots.

by bewildered Thu Jan 08, 2004 13:30

A member of the SP posted here to tell us that the UDA are "progessive", which of course implies that attacking fenians might come under that heading. My point is that there is no way in which organised attacks of this nature in South Belfast could take place without the direct involvement or approval of the UDA.

by SP member Thu Jan 08, 2004 13:48

The UDA are not a progressive organisation. Loyalism is not any kind of political alternative for working class people. Before this thread gets out of hand with SP haters this has to be clarified. Just because the SP are not left republicans it doesn't mean they are loyalists!

by bewildered Thu Jan 08, 2004 14:11

A person calling themselves Gregory Carson and claiming to be a member of the SP posted on a thread concerning loyalist prisoners in Maghaberry in which he claimed that the UDA had (a) prevented sectarian attacks; (b) played a progressive role in opposing Adair, and (c) physically run fascists out of their areas.

Other members of the SP have denied that the UDA have had anyhting to do with the mounting level of racist attacks in the areas that they control by terror. You could'nt run a bingo in South Belfast without those scum being involved so how could these attacks be taking place without their imprimatur?

And there are other examples of the SP defending loyalists. Unfortunately they keep letting you down in your elusive search for left leaning sectarian sociopaths. I so believe, however, that there is a tendency in the Church of Satan that is open to the ideas of Marxism.

by SP member Thu Jan 08, 2004 14:23

Lets make it quite clear: the SP do not believe that the UDA are progressive.

Anyone can put up a posting with a name and party affiliation on Indymedia given the nature of the website.

This is my last posting on this thread.

by Belfast Thu Jan 08, 2004 14:45

Loyalist paramilitaries are of course behind these attacks, this is not only common knowledge but is acknowledged by all the ethnic community representatives, mainstream political parties, human rights groups, trade unions, the media and indeed even by loyalist representatives themselves.

IF the SP have stated that loyalist are not behind these attacks then their heads are up their arses emerged in the planet 'talk-shit'. It would be of no surprise however that they would have stated this as most people are now aware of the SP bizarre stand on these manners {haddenism}. If they have stated that loyalist are not behind this then they are wrong., for fucks sake even loyalists are saying that loyalists had done it.

So if true that the SP said this then this is one of the most bizarre statements that I have heard the SP make and I have heard them make many bizarre statements

by Mike Thu Jan 08, 2004 15:42

Maybe the SP don't believe that the UDA are progressive but they do think that convicted murdering thug Billy Hutchison of the UVF/PUP is. They have put him on platforms. In this they are not alone. The trade union movement in Dublin has acted as host/chair of meetings in Dublin were Hutchison paraded his wares. The same thug who told the RUC to get the "fucking fenians off the streets" in reference to children and parents from Holy Cross School in Ardoyne.

The platform that most of the left gave to Hutchison is a disgrace and while he might not being the rounds now, many still think Billy and his band of murdering sectarian thugs are progressive.

by hs - sp Thu Jan 08, 2004 16:45

This thread is the nastiest piece of sectarianism I've ever seen. People are being brutally attacked for the colour of their skin and the only thing someone called "bewildered " can do is use it as a petty sectarian attack on another party.
Bewildered whoever you ever might be better off in actually supporting some of the anti racist work in NI rather than using the suffering of innocent people in a riducals micro squabble. (which is exactly what it is)You may not like the politics of the sp or anyone else but this kind of opportunism is really the worst. (i can see why you won't write your name or affiliations).
Our position on the north is well known and unpopular with nationalists and republicans. you don't need to steep this low to make petty points.
As for talks with the pup we did it becuase there was a small cahnce something might have come from it. It didn't but we tried. I don't know about the debate and what the SP was supposed to say about racist attacks, or other individuals who may or may not be members or supporters. But never in my life have I heard anyone from any left tradition describe the UDA as progressive as Bewildered well knows. For the sp official view visit www.socialistparty.net.

by Mike Thu Jan 08, 2004 16:54

so you did indeed talk to a bunch of murdering sectarian (in the religious sense) thugs because something might have come of it. What? Here is an organisation that believes in the division of the working class along sectarian lines, that believes in protestant supremacy, that believes in discrimination and you thougt something might come of it. It that is your logic, well then maybe there is a section of the National Front (well know loyalists, by the way) that is worth talking to.

The SP don't get it. Why would the UVF/UDA not attack non whites? We have a sectarian state and the sectarian GFA which the SP supports. It not even a small stretch to start attacking non whites. You can't have a sectarian state where there is no racism. Your mates in the UVF who were worth talking to are sectarians and racists.

By the way you didn't just talk to them you toured them and championed them as the voice of the protestant working class when non sectarian councillors like Mark Langhammer are being bombed by these thugs. They never represented anything of the working class or rather they did in the same way that nazi mobs and NF mobs represent them. But still you tried. Tis a strange world we live in.

by hs - sp Thu Jan 08, 2004 17:15

something that southern hard nationalists have a hard time remebering about the north is that there was two sides. It may suprise you to hear this but there was a war and thousands died. Many IRA bombs killed innocents and drove members of the prodestant communities into the arms of the paramilitaries in the same way that british bullets drove people to the provos. Pretty much every political movement on this island realised the way out was through talks not by driving prods or taigs into the sea. The vast majority of the republican movement believed
(including the ones who actually fought and served time) talking to prodestant paramilaries was better than continuing the war. The only groups against peace were the cira and the rira who planted the omagh bomb. You may wish to continue the war but the rest of us don't.

by hs - sp Thu Jan 08, 2004 17:24

the only nationalist groups who wanted to continue the war were cira and rira.

by Tiocfaidh Armani - Na Fianna Éireann Thu Jan 08, 2004 23:24 info at fiannaeireann dot com

The Continuity IRA ( Óglaigh Na hÉireann ) had no part in the Omagh bombing, and have always stated this publicly. It was was carried out by, and claimed by the "Real" IRA.

Infact, Republican Sinn Féin was one of the first political organisations to condemn the bombing.

by Marc Mulholland Fri Jan 09, 2004 13:21 marc.mulholland at stcatz dot ox dot ac dot uk

I have blogged some comments here, if anyone is interested:

http://marcmulholland.tripod.com/histor/

Best,

Marc.

by Jenny B Fri Jan 09, 2004 15:59

The initial post is not based on fact, wildly blaming the UDA, without any real evidence or proof.
The facts of the matter are the UDA is not behind the racist attacks, it did not organise or sanction these racist attacks.
If you would take time to study the situation you will see that the area within in which these attacks are occuring (the lower Donegall road) is controlled by the UVF. You have mix of various factions of loyalists within this the Donegall rd, village and lisburn rd areas. So to make wild assumptions that the UDA is behind the attacks is just ignorant and at worst sectarain point scoring.

Lets look at WHO REALLY IS BEHIND THE RACIST ATTACKS, we find it is the MAINSTREAM tabloid MEDIA such as The SUN, DAILY MAIL/EXPRESS/telegraph and the BRIT GOVERNMENT through its zenophobic asylum seeker policies, all encourage racist attacks upon people who look foreign. With a small minority of die hard fascist neo nazis jumping on the bandwagon, and targeting ethnic minorities for racist abuse and attacks. The Government and mainstream tabloid rags are the real instigators through their rascist portrayal of the asylum situation and are responsible for the current wave of racist pogroms.

The village area of belfast has been notorious for many years for vicious sectarian and racist attacks. Culminating in the murder of Ballygomartin protestant Margaret Bell who was mistaken for a catholic and beaten to death at the Bad Bet Inn band hall, not to mention the racist beating and murder of a chinese man, on the railway tracks near Belfast city hospital in 2001.So why the HE would rehouse ethnic minorities there is beyond comprehension.

t is also an area where many mainland english nazi snobs choose to relocate to, bringin with them their vicious pathetic race hate. If we look at the area itself you will find it is mostly upwardly mobile, with the majority of parents/adults in work, mainly in the security and service industries. This wealth and economic security brings territorial snobbery and a desire to perserve district properties with a view to resale. Thus you have racist and social snobs who don't want ethnic minority neighbours because they wish to market their shitehole area as exclusive.

Last year there was near uproar, in the shitehole ballynafeigh area, as snooty residents got whiff that the HE were planning on moving ethnic minorities into Annadale flats, a cesspit dump that you wouldn't house dogs/single alcos in, nevermind whole families. Yet meely minded ballynafeigh snobs begrudged rehousing ethnic minorities within their cesspit shitehole dump that is ballynafeigh/annadale. How mean and nasty can you get.

by hs - sp Fri Jan 09, 2004 17:39

i should have said: the cira. And the RIRA (who planted the omagh bomb)

by cleo Sat Jan 10, 2004 00:42

Due to the racist attacks, an exclusive and unknown belfast estate agent William Faulkner, has said that his landlord clientele have asked him not to rent out their private properties to ethnic minorities.

How very christian and humane of these caring landlords, who don't mind renting out their properties to noisy drunken student vandals, who wreck and destroy their properties every year, but won't dare take the risk of renting to ethnic minorities, in case of race attack damage. This racist attitude of these landlords is just adding insult to injury.

by BNP=bigots, nobodies&perverts Sun Jan 11, 2004 22:42

The UVF have identified 4 individuals from the Donegall Road/Village who are suspected of having links to far right neo nazi groups like the BNP, White nazi party, grey wolves etc and are currently interrogating these individuals.

Nazi infiltrators who use the cover of loyalist organisations/communites to incite, and perpetrate racist attacks, are ultimately working to their own sinister brit state funded agenda which damages and discredits the reputation of loyalists.

Nazis are working to their own agenda, and have in the past infiltrated, influenced and curried favour with groups such as the extreme right wing LVF and C company sparking numerous loyalist fueds, attempted take overs and internal power struggles.

Nazis ultimately hope to rise to power on the back of loyalism, and must be resisted at every opportunity.

by pat c Mon Jan 12, 2004 18:58

You might be interested in this.


Loyal Women by Gary Mitchell.
======================
A play about a group of working-class women, members of the UDA womens
section in Protestant North Belfast.
90 mins.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/ram/playofweek.ram
Listen online with the link above or go to
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/playwk.shtml

by Socialist Party Mon Jan 12, 2004 23:31

Stop Racist Attacks

A six foot wooden plank thrown through the window, spraying shattered glass over an area where a family have just finished eating.

This attack on the home of a Pakistani man and his eight and a half month pregnant sister-in-law is just one of the latest of a series of sickening racist attacks.

The Donegall Road/Village area of Belfast has seen a concentration of attacks. Just before Christmas the homes of a Ugandan couple and two Chinese families were attacked, and the families were forced to flee the area.

But South Belfast is not the only area to have suffered. Last year, according to the PSNI, there were 226 reported racist incidents, spread across much of Northern Ireland. Muslims have been threatened or attacked in Enniskillen and Craigavon. Pipe bombs were recently left outside the house of South African families in Belfast. Other incidents have taken place in Ballymena and Coleraine.

Most of the attacks have taken place in Protestant areas. However there have also been incidents in Catholic areas. Chinese and Bangladeshis have recently been assaulted in the Antrim Road district of Belfast.

Most of this activity is organised and co-ordinated by far right groups who are trying to use the issue of immigration to gain a foothold in Northern Ireland. Groups like Combat 18 and the White Nationalist Party, as well as the British National Party (BNP) are trying to scapegoat immigrants in order to build a base for themselves. The BNP have even announced that they intend to contest the next local government elections.

Other less known groups have also surfaced. The "Knights of the Invisible Empire", made up of former members of the Klu Klux Klan, have been handpicking middle class fascist "intellectuals" in an attempt to gain a foothold.

These groups may be small but they represent a real threat. The time to deal with them is now, when they are small and isolated. A serious campaign needs to be launched to stop the racist attacks and to stop the far right from organising here.

As well as demonstrations and publicity, an effective campaign needs to go into the areas and, alongside the local community organisations, organise to stop the attacks.

The racists play up people's fears about housing, low wages, lack of jobs and amenities, trying to point the finger of blame at immigrants. But poverty is not caused by immigrant workers who get the worst housing and worst jobs. Patients are lying on trolleys in hospitals because of the cuts in the health service, not because immigrants have jumped the queue. Low wages and poor housing are the result of a system run for profit instead of need, and by the policies of the political parties who up hold and defend this system.

A campaign to stop the attacks and to stop the far right from organising should also be a campaign to unite workers, whether Catholic, Protestant, Indian, Chinese, African or whatever in a common struggle for houses, jobs and proper services.

From: Voice January 2004