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national |
bin tax / household tax / water tax |
news report
Wednesday October 15, 2003 10:27
by Anonymous
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Comments (24 of 24)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24Let us know the result - i can't hear the wireless from here...thanks
Yes currently running at 75%.I take it this means the SWP and Sinn Fein will pull the plug on the protest.
SWP are trying to do it anyway. They are not in favour of any protests today and instead favour more 'meet and greet'.
For christ sake RTE polls are always bogus!
They are an effective tool for FFers all over the country. Doesn't anyone remember the polls they had around the War and issue of Shannon! they always went in favour of FF policy suprise suprise!
Who are the majority with time to listen to M. Finnucane and access to a phone, certainly not ordinary workers who are most affected by this unjust tax!
Phone-in polls should not be taken seriously as they they are very unscientific and easily manipulated. The best that can be said about them is that they reflect the views of people who like (have time) to respond to phone-in polls.
The one area where it is of concern is the way they are manipulated by lying politicians to make a pretence at public support for whatever dubious/devious activity they are pushing. This is particularly the case with RTE polls where there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that the main political parties (esp. FF) organise members/supporters to flood the station with calls. The problem is that RTE have no interest to reveal this to the public and the results of these polls are presented unchallenged.
I find it very hard to believe the 13,000+ people phoned in to a one hour programme.
The Pat Kenny show has just had Mammy Harney on pontificating on about how 'democratic' the bin tax is because the majority of elected councillors voted for it. And how we must all obey the laws and that no one can avoid tax. Well, maybe in her world...
If the councillors on Dublin City Council have any balls perhaps they just might point out how 'democratic' the vote on the renewal of the bin tax was. It only happened last January, they can't have forgotten.
The government well know the massive anti-bin tax publicity yesterday has damaged them, most seriously the support we have received from Council workers in the depots. SIPTU (the leadership) is now wavering. Hence a big guns rolled out to patronise us. Bertie is on about being opposed to 'escalation'. Pat Rabbitte has called on protestors to stop the blockades if the council agrees to collect all Bins. I really loved the Labour 'stating the bleedin' obvious'!
Keep plugging away folks, we have them under serious pressure.
Mary Harney, Martin Cullen, Brian Hayes and John Fitzgerald all being rolled out to face down the protestors. You can always rely on the right wing to get their message across.
You of course wouldn't know that the Labour Party and the unions are supposedly opposed.
Get off your arses and open your mouths.
Say what you like about polls, but I'd like to know what the final result was.
Anybody know?
should people pay to have their bins removed?
shouldn't the question be
should people pay TWICE?
or
should we let successive governments off the hook for a disasterous and unsustainable waste policy which led to a massive crisis which they put on the long finger - and are know trying to put all the onus and pressure on the ordinary citizens and at the same time pave the way for privatising the service?
to vote no. type NO.
to vote YES, ask your psychiatrist to loosen the straps on your jacket so that you can reach the keyboard.
The Telepoll Results
Question: Do you think you should pay to have your bins collected?
The result...
74% voted YES
26% voted NO
Will all anti-bin protestors now go away and not spoonge off the responsible and environmentally concerned citizens who have paid their bin tax?
"13,000+ people phoned in to a one hour programme"
An auto-dialing machine. They have a few in the council.
...but that works out at about 216 calls a minute.
Somebody has been busy.
Yes Paul, the actual figure would be 216.6666666666 to infinity
Just like the governments arguments, they also go on to infinity
Thanks "Paid me bin tax" for the outcome of the poll.
Ireland is the most inequitable society in the Western world outside the U.S.
We will "go away" when tax is spread equitably and fairly across all Irish citizens and when the most vulnerable and those that are in need most are taken care of.
Regards,
OK if the powers that be are so confident, lets have a city-wide referendum on the Bin-Tax!
What a joke these bin tax protests are.I have been paying for bin collection for the last few years.You pay by the bag and as a result i,ve at least halved my rubbish since the charge has come in.Bottles and cans are now brought to the bottle banks which are free.Plastics and cardboard can be recycled too.The problem with the Irish is that there lazy and wasteful in comparison to the rest of europe and indeed the world as regards recycling.It will be amazing to see how many more people start using bottle banks etc.when the alternative is to pay to get them dumped.
Of course then theres the usual political groups jumping on any bandwagon passing to sell a few papers or get a vote or two,SWP and SF spring to mind.Grow up.Theres more important things going on in the world than a couple of quid to get uneccesary rubbish collected.
as someone who recycles when I can, I have a question.
The nearest bottle bank to me is THREE miles away - I have no car. Thankfully, I can now and then get a lift with my bottles to the botlle bank.
But the whole principle of the bottle bank assumes that you have a car (or other means of transport) to get your bottles to the actual bank.
Personally, I think if everyone DRIVING to bottle banks, polluting the air with their exhaust fumes, kinda defeats the purpose, no?
The question is thus, what measures are in place to help those who do not own transport to recycle bottles?
"You pay by the bag and as a result i,ve at least halved my rubbish since the charge has come in"
So you waited till the Bin Tax to change your recycling habits then?
Where people like me who haven't paid have changed years ago and still not going to pay double tax.
"The problem with the Irish is that there lazy and wasteful in comparison to the rest of europe and indeed the world as regards recycling."
I think i would most likely agree with you on that point.But we are not the worst in the world.
"Theres more important things going on in the world than a couple of quid to get uneccesary rubbish collected."
It may be a few quid to you but to others it could be alot.Don't only think of yourself.
Ciaran
I tried to take part in the poll but kept getting the engaged tone just after the '1850'. Gave up as I had to go to work.
Overloaded with FFers probably.
recycler,
Indeed you have raised a good question and the basic answer to what measures have been put in place for .... is none.
The reason is that the plan by the government all along has been to make only a token effort at the recycling. That way it's setup to fail. You will notice in many of the so-called national debates in the corporate or state media that the waste issues is always posed as: Landfill vs Incinerators. They nearly always have someone then pose the question -but what about recycling? And the answer is generally some form of: -ah sure that all well and fine and would be nice, but it has been shown not to work. In a certain sense they are right -it can't work when you don't put a proper infrastructure in place.
The objective is not to reduce waste volumes. If that was the case, then we would have a proper recycling structure, which by the way would include deposit schemes for cans and bottles, -only though the 'free market' types wouldn't like that. Nor has any effort been made to tackle what I think is the central issue -Excessive Packaging. That is probably the key to reduction. Instead it's left intact.
As you well know, there are 6 incinerators planned for this country, with the biggest for Dublin at 500,000 tonnes per year. BTW the Dublin Corpo refer to it as the 'Thermal Plant'. Well if you were serious about reducing and recycling waste, how the heck could you feed a beast such as this big incinerator? It simply wouldn't make sense nor pay. I can hear someone already saying, yes, but the quantities of waste are well over 500,000 tonnes. True it is, but it's more likely consists of stuff that doesn't burn, like glass, metal, rubble, concrete. I am sure you will find the engineers behind it, have all the figures on the stuff that will burn and have sized the plant accordingly.
Of course in such a scenario, the recycling rate would stall and fall. This is what happens whenever this 'solution' is imposed.
But the beauty is: Private companies, get to charge you for the excessive packaging when you pay for the products, then you will get stung again with the bin charges, and then private operators get to make more money running the incinerators from the govt, paid via our taxes. And then again, when the toxic residue left over is landfilled.
It makes so much sense.
What do you expect,the government to send people into your house and pick up your bottles for you?
If it was going to save you a few quid you'd find it pretty easy to cycle or walk to the bottle bank every week or even couple of weeks.Which just about sums up my argument.Lazy paddies. Unless theres a few pound to be saved.Check your bin and i bet over half of it doesn't have to be thrown out.I'm sure beetween you and your neighbours someone has a car that could take a trip to the bottle bank every week.I often collect my neighbours cans when I'm going up.Much easier to fuck it in the bin though,isn't it?
Where do you get off, referring to us as 'Lazy paddies'? Those kind of racial slurs don't belong on indymedia.
Bin Had: "Lazy paddies"
Look Mr. 'I'm Great Aren't I', I work 10 hour days, shift work and you call me lazy!?!. The only free time I have is at the weekends and usually I like to pop up to Dublin (at extortionate prices) to see my mates. I hardly know my neighbours, in fact I hate the ones next door. But your point about neighbours is a good one.
By your reckoning, it should be on communties' heads to ensure recycling facilities are accessable to all? Neighbours *should* help each other out. Why should it be like this, why should I have to rely on the generousity of others? If the state cared so much about recycling, they would implement collections, maybe every two weeks for bottles and cans and paper etc. But as Terry, and others, have pointed out - the agenda here is privatisation. It seems to me that it would not make 'economic sense' for private companies to make several runs for different bins, when all could be collected at once - and then shipped off to those nice incinerators/landfills.
"I often collect my neighbours cans when I'm going up"
Aren't you great?
"Much easier to fuck it in the bin though,isn't it?"
As I said, I do recycle when I can. And there is no paper recycling facility where I live, which is a shame because I read a lot of papers.
I've never needed to recycle and I'm never going to need to. The nugatory E700 per year doesn't make that much of a dent in my income and so I shall bask in a sickly green glow of self-righteousness whilst simultaneously attacking other people for not being "green" and throwing all my waste in the bin.
(Oh yes, I forgot to mention -- I feel very in touch with the planet and as I drive in to work and eat organic vegetables with minimal packaging flown to me on a plane I just can't understand why these poor oiks don't understand they have to do their bit to save the planet too. I can't be just me!!)