Irish Activist Too Busy Fighting With Each Other To Actually Do Anything

by Andrew Tue Jun 04, 2002 16:01

The idea that activists are too busy fighting with each other to do anything else is false and more seriously could make people afraid to debate and discuss. Many of those taking part in the debates on indymedia are spending far more effort builidng grassroots campaigns around issues from the bin charges to shut Sellafield. Blind activism of the 'shut up and do something variety' apperently advocated above will do far more damage to the movement in the long run.

Socialism failed in the 20th century not because of a lack of activism, there were many, many mass movements. It failed because too many activists did not give enough consideration to what they were fighting for. So endless lifetimes were spent building organisations like the Labour parties, the leninist parties and radical nationalist parties that today are exposed as counter productive.

The worlds ruling class have countless meetings big and small. There is no point thinking that we have something to gain by picketing every one of these. We will not create a free society in that manner alone. We may create the occasional 'spectacular protest' that opens up a brief space for us in the media but even this means nothing without a movement to build on that publicity.

There is a place for spectacular protest but the real important activity is grassroots organising of ordinary people (what we mean by the term working class) to fight in their own interests. Alongside this we need to develop a hard critique of the reasons socialist movements have failed in the past. A free society can only be built by the mass of the working class engaged in self-activity towards creating a free society armed with an understanding of What is not to be done.

by ph - socialist party Tue Jun 04, 2002 16:39

Well observer old buddy what excatly are YOU doing about it. Your problem is you see this as something SOMEONE ELSE should do. The point of activisim is doing it yourself and not depending on other people. If you feel strongly about this you can get on the phone ring the alphabet soup and people will go. Stop whingeing and organise!!!!!!! If you need flyers printed any of these organisations will help you. Or better still do it yourself. The left in Ireland is tiny so we need as many people as possible doing things. You might find it hard to believe but we are involed in alot of grass roots campaigning that takes alot of time. As well as those of us who go for elections (but we won't get into that debate now andrew!!!). Either way the point is organise it yourself and you'll get support.
Build it and they will come!!! (a few at least)

by Loz Tue Jun 04, 2002 18:33 graswrmpireland at hotmail dot com

I'm setting up a new party to unite the left. Anyone who wants to join is welcome as long as you follow the rules:

1. We refuse to sell our newspaper.
2. There is no leader.
3. We never have meetings.

The name of the party shall be:
Grass Roots Anarchist Socialist Workers Republican Movement Party Ireland.
Can someone do up a banner please!

by col - swp Tue Jun 04, 2002 19:18

sadly, i think that there is a point to this -- the bickeringmust end - which i precisely why i didn't respond to half the posts in here- lets grow up and stop the bickering - which means nothing to nayone but the "activists" in indymedia

by GluttonMan - Brotherhood of Bickerers and Begrudgers (Local 402) Tue Jun 04, 2002 19:46

There can never be enough bickering: so I welcome the parent post by "Observer". Nice bicker Observer!

by badman Wed Jun 05, 2002 00:16

Or do I smell the SWP role-playing? The inclusion of themselves in the list of sectarian groups would be a master-stroke of black propaganda. However, I reckon they fell down with the 'observer' tag. The thing is that if the author was really an observer of the left, rather than a participat, they would hardly have the cheek to give out to the various activist groups for not organising a welcoming committee for this meeting. If you wanted to stop any criticism of the SWP however, you would want such calls to come from a neutral, an observer rather than an active participant.

Next time folks, just make up a name. Brian's a nice one.

Do you guys have to go to school to learn this shit? Hat's off, you throw some mean mud!

by vert-et-noir Wed Jun 05, 2002 12:02

Observer, did you learn of this meeting from the previous post on the newswire? I learned of it on the radio this morning, again too late to do much about it except bitch. Stil perhaps all this negativity will cause someone else to organise a big conference that you, I and all the other net-nerds who hang around indymedia can go to and meet up face2face. Then someone else could tell us how to change the world, maybe we could als set up some kind of emergency protest team with people on 30 minute standby all round the country. Won't it be great, commitees, lists, dogmas we can all rally round being led to freedom (in chains)

by Old Timer Wed Jun 05, 2002 14:12

Just as well nothing was organised. If it had our usual pythonesk figures would have accused someone else of hijacking it; organising a front, blah, blah blah
Time to grow up lads, the capitalists are running rings round ye

by Raymond - NKVD Wed Jun 05, 2002 22:01

I think we can assume from all these crys about "bickering" and "sectarian" that the S.W.P. make decisions by NOT discussing and NOT debating.

by Rose Thu Jun 06, 2002 15:54

"Time to grow up lads, the capitalists are running rings round ye"
Yeah right. Whereas sending messages like this to indymedia will smash capitalism!