Bin Tax meeting in Ballinteer

by swatcher Sat Sep 20, 2003 20:24

No you are wrong 'busy bee'. Now is very much the time for discussing tactics and strategy, if we wait until after the fight is over we may well discover that we adopted the wrong tactics and were defeated because of it.

by Busy bee Fri Sep 19, 2003 16:18

Any discussion of who did what during the campaign can wait until after the campaign is over, not during the struggle.
We should all be aware by now of the efforts being made to divide and disrupt us. There are a lot of vested interests at stake on the bin tax issue.Don't let the efforts of the trolls succeed.
Don't let anything get in the way of us all putting in the maximum effort to defeat the bin tax. Don't let anyone divide us.

by activist Fri Sep 19, 2003 14:47

I was talking to a SP member from the South Dublin area. They were telling me about how they did some door-to-door canvassing in the SWP's 'heartland' in Dundrum. There was cleat evidence from talking to people that no work was done by the SWP in that area.

By all accounts the SWP are not co-ordinating any camapign on bin charges in any area. They are putting forward the disenpowering arguments of protests outside depots. Why? it's easier for them, it's easier to hand out the placards and give the impression they are doing work on bin charges.

They are opportunistic by jumping on the bandwagon, and are sectarian for putting the narrow interests of their own group (ie a bus to paris) ahead of the need to beat the government on bin tax.

by Anonymous Fri Sep 19, 2003 13:16

http://www.rte.ie/

Rte interatctive poll - should residents have to pay bin charges. Poll as at 12:10pm:-

60.27% (361 votes) - Yes
38.73% (232 votes) - No
1% (6 votes) - Maybe

by Busy bee Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:35

Swatcher has been putting those comments on a couple of different threads, using different names. Swatcher, or swp watcher's (or whatever is their latest incarnation) intention is to cause divisions among activists. He/she was exposed on one of the other threads where he/she had posted within a few minutes of posting on this thread.
Don't waste too much space on him/her, just be aware of the tactic being used.
Hopefully the editors will get busy with their scissors and put a stop to these trolls.

by a person worth their salt Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:17

The SWP not involved in the bin tax campaign! the SWP not used to working in the communities! The SWp opposed to Blockades! Pure horsehit, and stale with it. Get a fucking life and stop your mentally ill rantings or are you just working for the council. Bye the way Joe Higgins rang the SWP last week to congratulate them on their work in building solidarity for the fingal protests. Most people on the left seem to be able to work together on this. Then again your probably not on the left are you?

by Eugene - SWP Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:08

What an attempt to troll with that last comment! I was at that meeting last night and I agreed with Brian’s posting. What is the problem here, I'm f**king furious to see a comment like that. Yes I shouldn't rise to the bail but it’s unavoidable. It’s my first reply to anything on this site in a long time.

The SWP in the Dundrum area took the initiative late last week to go ahead with organising bin meetings as time was short and put up the majority of the posters and distributed the leaflets. No disrespect to Lisa Maher as the Secretary of the campaign in South Dublin in any way here OK.

How can this "resident" say that the SWP haven't done anything with the bin tax in the Dundrum area. We for our part like the SP in other areas have done our best to help coordinate the campaign in the Dundrum/Ballinteer and before with the water charges campaigns in the mid-90's. We had organised meetings of a similar size circa 1996 to build the water charges campaign, I was there at the time. A march of 200 people to the council offices occurred at that time in Dundrum village.

Yes the SP are playing a leading part in Fingal, what the is the issue there, Joe Higgins was well know there since the early 90s and before I'm sure when he was elected an councilor in 1991. Clare Daly took the lead in Swords, there was no one else there to do it properly. And we in the areas we are based have done so to the best of our abilities.

This campaign across Dublin is being lead in the most part by the radical left, that is why there is such a red scare being attempted by the media and by comments by this so called "South Dublin resident".

And why the hell not try to bring the ESF into the equation? I tried in a contribution to the meeting, a bit over long I'll admit, to bring the issue of the EU directives on privatisation on this and mentioned Dublin Bus and all that. Of course you need to relate to the issue but you have to try to move from pure economics to politics. Everyone knows this. Its hard I know, I had to speak completely off the top of my head.

There are many tactics that should be considered to win on this issue and none should be seen in opposition. Please don’t start a thread on our supposed tactics at this time like earlier posts. The meeting last night issued a call to anyone in the room to attend Saturday’s meeting.

I wont be there as I have given responsibility to leaflet a shopping center for the anti war demo on September 27th.

by Terry - Not a member of any organisation Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:01

I have been at most of the Ballinteer and Dundrum bin tax public meetings in the past year, and these statements about the SWP not doing any work in the campaign in these areas are pure bogus.

The comments by both 'Swatcher' and 'South Dublin Resident' are designed purely to divide the campaign and scare people away. The government and council must be very proud of you, and I would not be surprised in the least if, in fact you work for them or are both of the orchistrated campaign to discredit the campaign. It fits in with the wider strategy to red-bait this campaign. And I would say to others, don't be so dismissive of this sort of sinister strategy, because there are hundreds of millions of euros riding on this campaign, for the multinational waste companies and the whole armoury of the government is basically at their disposal.

In the case of Dundrum & Ballinteer, both the SP and SWP have worked hard and well together, putting up, posters, organising meeting rooms, and sending out thousands of leaflets. They have consistently encouraged residents to help get involved and in many cases much of the leafleting has been done by ordinary individuals willing to help out and get involved in the campaign.

As for the low turnout in Dun Laoghaire, this is part of the wider problem with the way people all over this country are: -They feel isolated, shy and yes -afraid to go or be seen at such meetings. And the continual lies by the council that most people have paid plays into things as well. Low turnout has a lot to do with apathy. The campaigns do not have their luxury of advertising venues on the radio, TV, teletext, or newspapers. And why because none of the media sources would permit such information to be published or broadcast.

This last statement by D.S.R that they were promoting lobbying bin workers and down playing the role of local communities in blocades is also bogus. They were in fact promoting both strategies. It was agreed to put together a phone tree for street blockades.

And your statement about kicking out the SWP from the campaign is pure rubbish, since both they and the SP together make up the backbone of it, in terms of organising things. And I might say that it was stated by Lisa Maher (SP) and agreed by the SWP, that this campaign will only be won by people power and as she reported in the Fingal area, 100s, absolutely 100s of local people are now involved and the protests have now begun to get their own momentum.

Only I was there last night, D.S.Rs comments might look sincere, but at best I would say you misunderstood some things last night, but at worst I would say you are very cleverly and efficiently trying to totally destroy the campaign.

And lastly, I speak for what I know from my own area, whatever comments one has about others in other parts of the city can only be judged by those on the ground. Sure the SWP have come in for some criticism, but the way you combine this with outright lies mixed with other stuff makes me very suspicious of your motives.

by swatcher Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:56

The SWP are by no means the hardest working activists against the Bin Tax. No person worth their salt will admit this. Yes, I aknowledge that they have done SOME work in areas such as Ballymun, but in Dun Laoghaire their record is very patchy. The SWP are only now taking a turn to bin tax work after a week of publicity in Fingal, prior to Fingal they have being doing nothing on the issue. The sWP simply have identified the bin tax at this moent to be the biggest issue so they are jumping on the bandwagon. Their complete lack of experience of work in the communities amongst workers is highlighted in their completely wrong strategy. Activists must be very wary of the SWP, I am not being 'sectarian', quite the opposite. The SWP's tactics on this issues could well lead to the defeat of the campaing in areas where they have control of the campaign, it is the duty of activists that see this to point this out.

by south dublin rsident 2 - bin tax campaign Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:46

Sorry, but i spent three full days last week putting up posters and dishing out leaflets with swp members in Dun Laoghaire. the swp have also been teh main organisers of the protests at bin charges in loads of areas around dublin city, p. Out here they have helped the campaign to organise meetings and demonstrations on countless occasions
and at the meeting the other night we decided to protest at Sandyford etc. As far as i can see the swp and the other socialists are the hardest working activists around. Which makes me wonder what motivates the malicious slanders above.
Anyway Victory to the Bintifada and keep up teh good work all involved

by South Dublin Resident Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:31

The reason why the Dun Laoghaire meeting was far smaller than the Dundrum one was becasue the SWP have done absolutly NO WORK WHATSOEVER on bin charges in the area.

In Dundrum the SWP has done NO WORK WHATSOEVER on the bin charges, and it has been the SP and other community activists doing the work.

The SWP are putting across the incorrect ideas and methods on the bin tax. At Dundrum yesterday night they were putting forward the wrong ideas in relation to 'lobbying' bin workers and trying to play down the role that local communities will play in blockades.

For the SWP it's all about selling papers and recruiting. Rory Hearne is on record saying that the bin tax would be beaten by a few bin tax activists getting on a bus to Paris with the SWP!!

The more interaction I have with the SWP the more I am convinced we should kick them out of the Campaign. This is not 'trolling' it's all about whether we will win or lose on the bin tax struggle.

by conor (wsm personal capacity) Fri Sep 19, 2003 09:57

Balinteer meeting sounds a bit better then ours - brief report for what its worth below

news talk had mention of protest in Ringsend and blockade in Stoney batter - keep the pressure on !

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Report on Bin charges meeting Kingstown Hotel Dun Laoghaire

The attendence was really desperate considering the media coverage – about 40 people – we can only hope it picks up
The council have issued letters and will start non collection for those owing more than 200 euros ten days after recipt of letter
Surprisingly Dun Laoghaire has by far the highest rate of non payment in Dublin which has increased as charges advanced to 275 euro/year
A council worker reported that workers were very sympathetic but unlikely to disobey direct orders from supervisors and that we must be very careful to so solidarity rather then hostility SIPTU has not given any instructions – it officially has anti service charge policy – so the position is slightly better then with IMPACT workers instructed to obey council by their union in Fingal

Agreed – 1. Lobby of Sandyford depot 7 am Monday

2. Blockades – if they refuse to pick up bins in any area. As the letters won’t arrive until next week and they give another 10 days this means at least 2-3 weeks till any blockade attempt. I felt this was useless for areas like Fingal that need solidarity now. I argued for immediate blockades. I found myself in a minority of one !

We then divided into smaller groups to look at collection times in area and swap phone numbers etc. So at least the principal of blockad4es is accepted. Further local meetings to follow in Shankill, Sallynogin, Monkstown, Ballybrack – anyone who wants to go e mail me [email protected] (actually won't be able to reply till Monday !)

3. Solidarity action next week – we will coordinate with any Dublin wide action from Dublin wide meetinmg in Teachers Club (next Saturday 12 pm) – likely to be some sort of bin dump at Dun Laoghaire council offices

Thats it numbers and caution disappointing – hopefully more resolve at local meetings

Conor

by Damien Fri Sep 19, 2003 02:34

You asked "what do others think?"
I think you should stop trying to divide the campaign. PFO.

by Swatcher Fri Sep 19, 2003 01:52

If the SWPers are allowed to push their false and incorrect tactics on the anti bin tax movement we WILL be defeated. I am more and more coming to the conclusion that the SWPers should be completely isolated from all bin tax campaigns.

What do others think?