Galway Greens to launch local election campaign

by pat c Wed Sep 17, 2003 13:07

I hope you will let everyone know that you support bin taxes, to be paid for by weight, regardless of income. Whether you are a millionaire Green TD, a tax dodging Green computer consultant or a shop assistant you pay the same amount! Now thats equity!

by Revolver Wed Sep 17, 2003 13:17

Isn't there a waiver scheme for publicly-run bin collections? Better than that for other essential services like electricity?

by Joe Wed Sep 17, 2003 13:24

There is currently a waiver in Dublin which means that the very poor don't have to pay. But someone earning 20,000 pays exactly the same as someone earning 200,000 which is the point Pat is obviously making. Also elsewhere once local anti-bin tax campaigns were defeated the councils often privitise the service, then the cost raises (its around 500 euro in several areas) and waivers are not respected by the private companies. In short this is the start of a bigger agenda.

by Revolver Wed Sep 17, 2003 13:28

Someone earning 20,000 is earning enough. You should pay for the waste you produce like you pay for the electricity you use. By volume. Paying by the bag is best, better than an expensive bin or a yearly charge.

I don't agree that any important service should be privatised. Wouldn't it be better to fight to keep the service public instead of fighting against the charge?

Why is it an ESB "bill" but a bin "tax"? At this stage, pretty much every house in Dublin has power coming into it - it's not a luxury like a car or a TV. For safety and hygiene reasons, having the electricity in your house is just as important as having your rubbish taken away.

by Joe Wed Sep 17, 2003 13:53

Good man revolver, of course Tony O Reilly should pay exactly the same charge as the guy who collects his bins. That way the rich pay almost no local tax (as a percentage of their income) while the low paid pay 3-5%. How could anyone see this as unfair, even if the low paid guy has already paid to have the bins collected through income tax.

Seriously you nicely indicate the class war* nature of the bin tax and why non-payment and resistance is high in Cabra or Mulhuddert but low in Howth or Ballsbridge. And also why high earning journos and editors in the media don't see why this is an important issue.

I don't expect to convince you on this as which side of the argument you will be on is so obviously related to how much you find in your pay packet. Flat rate local taxes make sense for the wealthy, they are crazy for the rest of us.

* - unfortunately while the rich deny that the class war exists they happily fight their side of it by dumping high taxation on ordinary workers.

by pat c Wed Sep 17, 2003 14:19

and present it to the Glorious Leader. Weigh it first though!

by pat c Wed Sep 17, 2003 14:47

Dont forget the Greens also want to meter water so that Millionaire Green TDs and tax dodging Green Computer Consultants will be able to afford as much as they want. In reality the Greens want to introduce water rationing for the poor.

So, do a Chumbawumba on Sargeant!

by ec Wed Sep 17, 2003 14:53

I think the strongest argument against bin charges is that made by joe above. In my opinion those campaigning against the charges need to get 'on-message' with this argument.

Opportunities to put this argument clearly through the media are being wasted in the campaign as far as I can see because anti bin-charges campaigners are being constantly led up the blind alley of arguing about 'the environment' so their critics can paint non compliant households as environmentally unfriendly.

A leaflet showing clearly that the essence of the tax is shifting the burden of paying for a necessary public service onto those on PAYE and low incomes - using real wage amounts in a comparitive way - might be a start.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin - Green Party Wed Sep 17, 2003 15:41

It is wonderful to see that here in Ireland we have produced an individual of an extraordinarily high calibre called pat c who has at last found the answer to world poverty.

His solution is so obvious that nobody had ever thought of it before. He is so bold as to suggest that the answer to world poverty is simply, not to charge for waste to be collected.

He is so convinced by this argument that he comments on virtually every indymedia story regardless of its content, and relates it to waste charges.

While George Bush invaded Iraq as part of a war on terror, pat c is mounting an attack on waste charges as part of a class war.

Unfortunately we have yet to hear his solution to the problem of dealing with waste itself. Does he support recycling or would he prefer his waste and the waste of the good honest working people of Ireland to be incinerated.

This we don't know.

Does he have views on renewable energy, public transport, the removal of trees, the curtailment of freedom of speech and the right to assemble.

This we don't know.

Luckily it appears that none of these things matter because nirvana will be reached as soon as bin charges are abolished.

As for me I foolishly thought that there was more than one genuine issue in the world. I also assumed that pat c being the extraordinary individual that he clearly is would get his facts right but then I saw the error of my ways and realised that he doesn't need to. He knows more about the Greens and our policies than we do ourselves.

I shall now sit back in a state of awe to await pats next great nugget of wisdom to arrive.

by pat c Wed Sep 17, 2003 15:53

The Greens support flat rate bin taxes. It doesnt matter if you are a millionaire green or a low paid shopworker, the Green Party wants you to pay the same amount.

The Greens support the metering of water, so you will pay the same rate if you are Tony O'Reilly or an office clerk.

The Greens support a flat rate income tax. A factory operative would have the same allowances and pay the same rate of tax as Michael O'Leary. (Not even the PDS have the nerve to propose this.)

Niall, you would be better off dealing with these issues instead of pretending that you are somehow progressive.

Niall, you are a true Class Warrior on behalf of the Rich.

by pat c Wed Sep 17, 2003 15:56

http://www.iol.ie/~niallob/recycle.html
"5. The introduction of a weight related waste collection charge with free collection for minimum weight of waste per annum per person in a household. This would reward efforts made at household level to reduce the amount of waste presented for collection. "

This from Nialls own site. He is going to reward working class people who behave themselves!

by ec Wed Sep 17, 2003 16:22

. . . is again showing his talent for flushing out the opinions of the wildlife.

You are ignoring and avoiding the argument Niall - and sounding a lot like Joe Duffy.

The Greens always were on the wrong side of this argument. It is an argument not about HOW waste is disposed of but about WHO PAYS for waste to be disposed.

These charges shift the burden of payment onto the lower paid and PAYE workers - and thath still holds true even if said lower paid workers were to minimise their waste.

by pat c Wed Sep 17, 2003 16:26

go to:
http://www.greenparty.ie/Pressroom/gvjun22003.htm#NATURAL

and will see a favourable review of "NATURAL CAPITALISM: THE NEXT INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION"
This could be an IBEC site!



The Greens pretend they want to get rid of tax emptions for the rich but here we see their TD Gogarty supporting a €100,000 tax free allowance for artists! Well an artist is more important than an electrician, you do realise that dont you?


"179. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for Finance if he will consider introducing an income threshold of €100,000 for the exemption that exists for artists who produce works of artistic merit, with additional revenue gained being ring-fenced for investment in the arts. [14013/03]"

With the Greens only the little people pay taxes.

by Joe Wed Sep 17, 2003 16:37

I'm so bored with the Green Party 'environmental' crap as an excuse for taxing the poor that I've decided to write them an alternative policy.

---

1. Handle the double tax argument by dropping PAYE 1% and creating a service based local tax of 1% of PAYE income.

2. Tweak this 1% local rate so that those who generate little waste on a per person basis can get this down to 0.25% or less while those who more waste end up paying 1.75% or so.

3. Make sure that builders, farmers and companie pay there share, at the moment they are subsidised by household waste charges

---

I'm not advocating this as alternative (I'd have to put more thought into it first). Just demonstrating how easy it is to create a local tax that encourages recycling/waste reduction but doesn't fuck over the ordinary worker. Any Green who gave a shit about the low paid should have been able to come up with a similar counter proposal 3 or more years back. Draw your own conclusions as to how they did not but just supported a tax the poor package in the name of the 'environment'.

Incidentally the above scheme also means that even Tony O Reilly would have an incentive to reduce waste. Someone on 1,000,000 a year would end up paying 17,500 if they failed to reduce waste or 2,500 if they did it very well. A bit more of an 'incentive' for them then the bin tax which they probably don't even notice

by Paddy Wed Sep 17, 2003 17:04

Niall knows very well (or else he's totally clued out) that most of those activists heavily involved in the Bin Tax campaign are also involved in other issues such as the anti-war movement. In Dublin, for example, the Greens, as opposed to the radical left, have only played a minor role in the Anti War Movement. No one is arguing that the Bin Tax is the only issue around, but with non collection starting in the Dublin local authorities it has obviously become a major issue especially in working class communities.

Now its obvious wo me why the Green Party are so hostile to the campaign, rather than just putting forward their arguments for the Bin Tax. The Party and its support base is overwhelmingy middle class, so it has no real contact with or understanding of working class communities. This is not to say that the Greens dont take a progressive stance on many issues, indeed some of their reps such as Patricia Mc Kenna are highly respected by all activists. I am simply pointing out an obvious reason why the Greens have taken such a hostile stance.

What is disturbing is the kind of disparaging tone of Niall attack on Pat C, especially his reference to class. It seems to indicate a contemptous attitude to working class people. Niall if you think this is only an issue for a bunch of wannabe revolutionaries you should check out the public meetings that are happening weekly in working class areas of Dublin. Paddy knows the left's penchant for exagerating numbers but I have never seen anything like this in twenty years of activism.

Niall instead of being holier than thou with Pat C you might ask your TDs and cllr.s in Dublin to come along to these meetings and put their case directly to the people. But then again that would be a bit too much like direct democracy, something you've abandoned along with not having a 'leader' etc. So much for thinking globally and acting locally.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin - Green Party Wed Sep 17, 2003 17:30

To ec

You said,
"You are ignoring and avoiding the argument Niall - and sounding a lot like Joe Duffy."

Have a look at the top of the page and point out to me where I mentioned bin taxes. I am not avoiding your argument you are avoiding mine.

The Greens policy on waste charges is outlined below by the extraordinary pat c.


To pat c

How do you derive, "The Greens support flat rate bin taxes"

from

"5. The introduction of a weight related waste collection charge with free collection for minimum weight of waste per annum per person in a household. This would reward efforts made at household level to reduce the amount of waste presented for collection. "


To Joe,

Thanks for the help on the policy front. I'll put your suggestions to our National Council.
Just to let you know that Paul Gogarty's suggestion is just that, a suggestion. It is not policy. Press releases are not the same thing as policy.

Strangely enough, Tony O Reilly fears the Greens more than any other Irish political party.

by pat c Wed Sep 17, 2003 17:39

niall

no matter what your income is , under the greens policy you pay the same per kilo for refuse.

That is a flat rate tax.

A green party millionaire pays the same per kilo as a shop assistant.

thats whats known as a regressive tax. as joe pointed out, you could have devised a tax which shifted the burden on to the rich, but instead you decided to wage war on the poor.

as for me inroducing the topic of bin taxes to this thread: you announced that sargeant was going to launch your election campaign. are you saying that he was going to avoid mentioning bin charges?

by pat Wed Sep 17, 2003 17:41

Gogartys comments were not in a press release, they were in a Dail question. Funny no other Green TD disagreed with him or pointed out that he wasnt reflecting party policy.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin - Green Party Wed Sep 17, 2003 17:43

What I'm hostile to is pat c turning everything I write into a tirade against bin charges. The article above has nothing to do with bin charges. Nor has an article I submitted recently about the removal of trees from Eyre Square.

If people want to play the screw everybody else up game, fine, but expect hostility...

In Galway we tend to find that far more is achieved by working with each other.

by Joe Wed Sep 17, 2003 17:45

Actually Pat one problem with my scheme is that it doesn't shift tax onto the rich. It is tax neutral in comparison with PAYE. But the Greens coulcn't even come up with a tax neutral alternative, they went straight to backing a tax the poor option as the only option.

Niall you might submit my musings to your national counci if you wish. However I was simply pointing out how easy it was to come up with an alternative proposal that in fact would provide a much greater envirnomental incentive. The fact that you and no other Green did this three years back speaks for itself.

Oh and check back through the archive if you want to find out what Joe did during the war.

by pat c Wed Sep 17, 2003 17:50

"What I'm hostile to is pat c turning everything I write into a tirade against bin charges. The article above has nothing to do with bin charges. Nor has an article I submitted recently about the removal of trees from Eyre Square. "

I do not comment on everything you write, the only other piece of yours I commented on was the Eyre Square piece. I would have left it at one comment on that but you were disingenuous about your support for bin taxes.

This article has everything to do with bin charges, its about the Greens Election Campaign and you support the imposition of Bin Charges. If you want to use Indymedia to electioneer on behalf of the Greens then your dirty linen is going to be exposed.

Anyway, I hope Sargeant gets a Chumbawumba Preston welcome in Galway.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin - Green Party Wed Sep 17, 2003 17:57 niallob at esatclear dot ie

I'd like to invite you guys down to Galway to a public meeting relating to Bin Charges. I'd be happy to take part in the debate and I'm sure that some people would be interested.

We have a charge of E350 per year and there has been no major anti-bin charge campaign in Galway. There was however a large anti-incinerator / pro-recycling campaign.

If you are interested, please email me.

by Joe Wed Sep 17, 2003 18:04

I'd have welcomed such a chance even a few months back. But right now you have to understand we are a little busy with more urgent matters! Maybe when things quieten down.

by pat c Wed Sep 17, 2003 18:30

then to debate with someone who want to wage class war against ordinary people.

whats the point?

you support:

a flat tax on income
a flat tax on water
a flat tax on refuse

i'd rather spend my time building campaigns against tree-huggers who represent the rich.

by Dawes Wed Sep 17, 2003 18:56

Niall makes a good point about the ESB. These days electricity is no longer a luxury, it's a necessity. And yet the poor are charged the same rates as the rich, there is no waiver scheme of any sort, and privatisation is very much on the agenda.

So why no anti-electricity-charges campaign?

by Chekov Wed Sep 17, 2003 19:00

Because it is easier to fight against an injustice that is new than an injustice that has been around for a long time. And, sorry I can't resist, but 'Daw'.

by pat c Wed Sep 17, 2003 19:00

off u go and start up the campaign.

at the moment we are fighting the bin taxes, we are up against all the establishment parties including the greens. but maybe the electricity campaign would be a runner.

anyway see what you can do.

unless of course you are a green troll who would do anything to see bin charges being paid by the poor instead of taxing green millionaires or artists.

by Dawes Wed Sep 17, 2003 19:17

Nah, I don't think I'd get much support for that campaign. I do think there should be more effort put into staving off privatisations which are definitely on the cards, such as Dublin Bus, rather than those which are potentially on the cards, such as Dublin's bin collection.

By the way, who is "tax dodging Green computer consultant" supposed to refer to? What juicy gossip am I missing out on?

by Krustie Wed Sep 17, 2003 19:20

I will be there to greet Trevor with a Custard Pie. Come on all you Pied Pie'ers. Show that the Wests awake. Trevie deserves a pie as much as Bertie does. So give him plenty of pies to match his lies.

by Poll Tax Wed Sep 17, 2003 19:27

Maybe you should ask a Green Computer Consultant.

by sidekick Bob. Wed Sep 17, 2003 19:31

someone is going to pied.

by Sideshow Mel Wed Sep 17, 2003 19:32

Or kicked in the side.

by Dawes Wed Sep 17, 2003 20:04

But I know loads of Green computer consultants: I want to know which one is dodging tax! I'd ask them all but I don't want to appear rude.

by Greenie Thu Sep 18, 2003 02:33

Everything you write Niall is about the bin charges.

It wasn't so long ago that Trevor Sargent was claiming that Clare Daly and other anti-bin tax protestors would be responsible for the privatisation of the bin collection service in Fingal.

Your party has been the acceptable face of the FF/PD privatisation agenda. You will be reminded of your disgusting right wing policies every time you or your party try to use Indymedia as a message board.

by Jolly Green Giant Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:10

Dawes, nudge nudge, wink wink, ask a Galway Green Computer Consultant.

by John D. Thu Sep 18, 2003 15:04

There are now just nine months to the next local elections - the first since Indymedia went live. Are we to have hundreds of candidates clogging up the pages of Indymedia with launches and using it as a springboard?

There is a danger that Indymedia will be used as an extra tool on the part of election candidates. The Indymedia collective must act now to prevent this. If people really want to read the various candidate's manifestos and statements then I suggest that a separate section be created for this purpose and that the normal Indymedia newswire be kept election campaign free.

Anyone agree with me?

by 1 of Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Thu Sep 18, 2003 15:09

As the above debate has showed, indymedia is not exactly the ideal vehicle for electioneering. Too many people who use the site know too much about what the parties actually DO, rather than what they SAY, and are only too happy to point it out!

by pat c Thu Sep 18, 2003 15:38

Nialls attempt at electioneering blew up in his face. let them come in their multitudes! they will be asked tough questions.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin - Green Party Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:39

Dear Pat,

I sincerely doubt that large numbers of election candidates will post their messages on Indymedia. There is clearly little support here for anyone involved in electoral politics.

As for yourself, you have asked me no tough questions at all. You merely pointed out in an entirely inaccurate manner what I think and what I stand for. Shame on you.

Regards,

Niall.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin - Green Party Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:40

Dear Pat,

I sincerely doubt that large numbers of election candidates will post their messages on Indymedia. There is clearly little support here for anyone involved in electoral politics.

As for yourself, you have asked me no tough questions at all. You merely pointed out in an entirely inaccurate manner what I think and what I stand for. Shame on you.

Regards,

Niall.

by pat c Mon Sep 22, 2003 15:38

I posted info from your own website and that of the Greens.Do you disagree with the policies you propose on your own website????

Do you disagree with the GreenParty poicies on water charges and flat rate of income tax?

I have distoted none of your views. You are the one who is being dishonest and you should be ashamed of yourself.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin - Green Party Mon Sep 22, 2003 19:15

Below are a list of statements you made in this thread. These are followed by two questions that I have answered with ease. They are not hard questions as you suggest. As to your new set of questions. I will answer them here.

(1) Do you disagree with the policies you propose on your own website????
NO.
(2) Do you disagree with the Green Party poicies on water charges and flat rate of income tax?
I BROADLY AGREE WITH THE GREENS POSITION ON WATER CHARGES. OUR ECONOMICS POLICY IS MUCH MORE DETAILED THAN YOU SUGGEST IN RELATION TO INCOME TAX.

Regards,

Niall Ó Brolcháin.




STATEMENTS

1) I hope you will let everyone know that you support bin taxes, to be paid for by weight, regardless of income. Whether you are a millionaire Green TD, a tax dodging Green computer consultant or a shop assistant you pay the same amount! Now thats equity!
Dont forget the Greens also want to meter water so that Millionaire Green TDs and tax dodging Green Computer Consultants will be able to afford as much as they want. In reality the Greens want to introduce water rationing for the poor.

2) The Green Party Class War On Behalf Of The Rich

3) The Greens support flat rate bin taxes. It doesnt matter if you are a millionaire green or a low paid shopworker, the Green Party wants you to pay the same amount.

4) The Greens support the metering of water, so you will pay the same rate if you are Tony O'Reilly or an office clerk.

5) The Greens support a flat rate income tax. A factory operative would have the same allowances and pay the same rate of tax as Michael O'Leary. (Not even the PDS have the nerve to propose this.)

6) Niall, you are a true Class Warrior on behalf of the Rich. Greens Favour The Rich

7) The Greens pretend they want to get rid of tax emptions for the rich but here we see their TD Gogarty supporting a €100,000 tax free allowance for artists! With the Greens only the little people pay taxes

8) No matter what your income is , under the greens policy you pay the same per kilo for refuse.That is a flat rate tax. A green party millionaire pays the same per kilo as a shop assistant. thats whats known as a regressive tax. Green Party Election Campaign Does Involve Bin Charges

9) I have better things to do with my time then to debate with someone who want to wage class war against ordinary people. whats the point? you support: a flat tax on income, a flat tax on water, a flat tax on refuse, I'd rather spend my time building campaigns against tree-huggers who represent the rich


QUESTIONS

(1)
Q. Well an artist is more important than an electrician, you do realise that dont you?
A. NO I DON’T.

(2)
Q. As for me inroducing the topic of bin taxes to this thread: you announced that Sargeant was going to launch your election campaign. Are you saying that he was going to avoid mentioning bin charges?
A. TREVOR SARGENT DIDN’T MENTION BIN CHARGES WHEN HE WAS IN GALWAY. HE KNOWS FULL WELL THAT THEY ARE NOT SUCH A BIG ISSUE HERE. WE HAVE BEEN PAYING THEM FOR YEARS.

by pat c Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:02

1. How can you claim that it was wrong of me to introduce Bin Charges to the thread? The Green Party support bin charges. The fact that Sargrant didnt mention them when people are being injuncted and imprisonec shows what a thoroughly middle class party the Greens are.

Are you seriously suggesting that Bin Taxes are not relevant to a local election campaign?

2.The Green Party Economic Policies certainly encompass more than a Flat Income tax, but that is the central tenet.

Can we take it that you are happy for Factory Workers to pay income tax at the same flat rate as Doctors, Barristers and Accountants?

3. You tried to disown the Gogarty Dail Question, you even tried to pretend it was a press release. But its on the Green Party Website and has been there for 5 months.

If the Green Party dont believe that an Artist is more important than an Electrician then why do they believe that an Artist is entitled to earn £100,000 free of tax?

by Niall Ó Brolcháin - Green Party Tue Sep 23, 2003 15:56

Firstly, what is your real name?

Secondly, what organisation do you belong to?

Thirdly, please name the tax dodging computer consultant you were refering to above. (Just to let you know I'm a PAYE worker, married with 3 children.)

Come to Galway and I'll demonstrate that there is no serious anti-bin tax campaign here.

Find me any mention in any Galway Media outlet about bin taxes.

My own view with regards to Economics is that those who earn more should also contribute more to society regardless of their profession. That is also the view of the Greens. As you are probably aware, we also support guaranteed basic income. Do you?

Paul Gogartys statement is not party policy. However, I freely admit that you are right about it being submitted as a Dáil Question.


As for your contention that I am wrong to complain about bin charges being introduced to this thread, I disagree. Bin charges may be a local election issue as are thousands of other issues. However, bin charges are not a big issue in Galway. Perhaps they will become a big issue, I don't know.

At present the big issue in Galway is the prohibitive bye laws that Galway City council is proposing, preventing people from handing out leaflets and restricting the right of assembly.

I feel sympathy for Joe Higgins, Clare Daly and other protestors who have been sentenced. I think that to impose such severe sentences on genuine protestors is entirely wrong. However, I cannot accept that the issue of the bin charges is a big issue in Galway. It isn't.

We can go on like this for ever if you wish but at the end of the day, until you can prove that bin charges are a major issue in Galway, your presence on this thread has little or no credibility.

Try typing galway into the search enginge of indymedia and see how many postings you get on bin taxes.

by pat c Tue Sep 23, 2003 16:31

"Firstly, what is your real name?"
As is well known on indy, Pat Corcoran.

"Secondly, what organisation do you belong to?"
Independent, am active in Bins, AFA etc.

"Thirdly, please name the tax dodging computer consultant you were refering to above. (Just to let you know I'm a PAYE worker, married with 3 children.)"

i think you would know more about tax dodgers than I do, plenty of self employed members of the Greens. Are you saying that there are no tax dodging green computer consultants?



"Come to Galway and I'll demonstrate that there is no serious anti-bin tax campaign here. "

And?

"Find me any mention in any Galway Media outlet about bin taxes."

On your website you support refuse charges, THAT IS A BIN TAX.

"My own view with regards to Economics is that those who earn more should also contribute more to society regardless of their profession. That is also the view of the Greens. "

The Greens call for a flat rate tax ie 15% of income. Michael O'Leary pays 15 % and a bin collector pays 15 % under the Green Party tax.


"As you are probably aware, we also support guaranteed basic income. Do you?"

I do, I think it would get rid of a lot of bureaucracy but supplements would be required, some people as a group are more prone to poverty.

"As for your contention that I am wrong to complain about bin charges being introduced to this thread, I disagree. Bin charges may be a local election issue as are thousands of other issues. However, bin charges are not a big issue in Galway. Perhaps they will become a big issue, I don't know."

The meeting was to launch the Green Party local election campaign. The Green Party supports local charges for Water and Refuse collection. On your own website you support refuse charges. As you will see from the comments above, I am not the only person who thinks bin charges are relevant to this thread.

"At present the big issue in Galway is the prohibitive bye laws that Galway City council is proposing, preventing people from handing out leaflets and restricting the right of assembly."

Well done, I acknowledged the work done on this by Labour and Greens on another thread.

"I feel sympathy for Joe Higgins, Clare Daly and other protestors who have been sentenced. I think that to impose such severe sentences on genuine protestors is entirely wrong."

By supporting bin taxes the Greens share responsibility for their imprisonment.

" However, I cannot accept that the issue of the bin charges is a big issue in Galway. It isn't."

So? You still have pro bin tax policies. Nuclear Power is not a big issue in Galway at the moment but you would still oppose any party that supported it in its policies.

"We can go on like this for ever if you wish but at the end of the day, until you can prove that bin charges are a major issue in Galway, your presence on this thread has little or no credibility."

This isnt just about Galway, if you go electioneering about the Greens here then bin charges are going to come up. I think more people have supported my point of view than yours.

"Try typing galway into the search enginge of indymedia and see how many postings you get on bin taxes."

They will appear everytime you electioneer on behalf of the greens.

Missing you already.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin - Green Party Tue Sep 23, 2003 16:56

You can't find any reference to bin taxes on any of the Galway media outlets, can you?

by pat c Tue Sep 23, 2003 17:00

what would it show? that you hide your pro bin tax policies.

anyway, bin taxes are relevant to ANY electioneering any party does. anytime you appear here electioneering you will be confronted on the bin tax issue.

and not just by me.

by Joe Tue Sep 23, 2003 17:01

Any answers to the rest?

by pat c Tue Sep 23, 2003 17:06

Your question was:

"Try typing galway into the search enginge of indymedia and see how many postings you get on bin taxes."

if you do that you will get the indymedia mentions of bintax & galway, not outside media outlets. but its mentioned on 3 threads.

my point is that from now on whenever you electioneer on behalf of the green party, you will be confronted with the bin tax issue.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin - Green Party Tue Sep 23, 2003 17:11

I will give them to you as soon as you have proved your credibility on this thread by answering my one serious question. I have answered many of yours, so let's not be lazy, shall we?

I repeat.

You can't find any reference to bin taxes on any of the Galway media outlets, can you?

by pat c Tue Sep 23, 2003 17:15

The Greens support Bin Taxes, you personally support bin taxes. Mentions of bin tax in the Galway media are irrelevant to that.

Whats relevant is that Clare & Joe are in prison and by supporting bin charges the greens share responsibility for that.

Now, you have left a lot of quetions unanswered and your bluster isnt fooling anyone here.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin Tue Sep 23, 2003 17:16

That's the answer I got from your suggestion.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin Tue Sep 23, 2003 17:19

Dear Mr. Corcoran,

Your credibility is zero. Until you can answer my one serious question you deserve nothing.
Here it is again.

You can't find any reference to bin taxes on any of the Galway media outlets, can you?

by pat c Tue Sep 23, 2003 17:26

You wont get away with doubletalk on indymedia. You will be confronted here everytime you try to electioneer.

charges are on this thread, the trees and the confrontation at galway city council.

they will appear every other time you crop up here in your green guise. if you want me to take the battle to galway media outlets - no prob. i'll write some letters.

by Pat C Tue Sep 23, 2003 17:30

I said it was irrelevant.

You have left a lot of questions unanswered. Your lack of support on the thread speaks for itself.

by Niall Ó Brolcháin Tue Sep 23, 2003 17:39

Dear Pat,

You still can't answer my simple question. Here are the email addresses for the main Galway papers. Let's see if you can get a letter published.

Why not try to sling some more mud at myself and the Greens.

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]


You can have the last word on this thread if you wish. I'm signing off for now. I'm sure we will cross swords again as you are clearly capable of relating every issue to bintaxes. A rare gift.

All the best,

Niall.

by pat c Tue Sep 23, 2003 17:59

I dont relate every issue to bin taxes; but when a party that supports bin taxes comes electioneering on indymedia then they are going to be confronted on bin charges.

Only a fool would accept that the Green Partys policy on refuse charges wasnt relevant to the launch of their Galway Local Election Campaign.

You have left a lot of questions unanswered.

by Mags Tue Sep 23, 2003 18:31

Pat C has pretty comprehensively demolished all the points Niall has made.

What is this obsession about bin taxes and the Galway media? Niall seems to be telling us that he is only interested in issues that appear in the papers and radio in Galway. Only issues that the media care to cover or be interested in!

I don't have a Galway paper to hand here just now. I do have today's copy of The Star.

Page 1:
Main article about a handbag belonging to the Attorney General's wife being snatched.

Picture:
Rear view of two naked women and some crap about 'World Class Beach Bodies' (go to page 3)

Picture:
Re: article about Arsenal and Man U scuffling.

Page 2:
Man and Son killed in crash in Tyrone
Braun workers facing job losses in Carlow

Page 3:
Two more pics of barely dressed females
Article on finding of lost episode of 'Only Fools and Horses'.
Article stolen from some celeb mag about Kian (from Westlife) being a 'lowlife' according to his ex-girlfriend.
More crap about David Blaine.

Now, my point is that this is what a random paper chooses to cover. Only two articles are of interest or use to anyone; the sad car crash and the jobs threatened in Carlow. The rest is utter pap.

I genuinely did think that the Greens had a bit more to their politics than media whoring. I actually thought they had a national view of policy and distained the parish pump, etc. Obviously not, from what Niall says. I even voted for the Greens the last time, but I won't again.

by Niall ÓB - Greens Fri Oct 10, 2003 15:04

Actually I was on about the launch of our local election campaign.