Indymedia Newswire peppered with "Troll" comments

by activist Wed Sep 03, 2003 19:50

You come to this site, perhaps you upload to this site, maybe you become involved in the site by joining and reading the batch or single mails that are sent out to the various lists, possibly you visit other imc collectives representing other cities and countries, and you wonder what place Seanin has?

You go to the "about indymedia" section on the site which tells you about some bunch of activists in Seattle, you think "Seattle??", how is that relevant to ireland?

Well for some time in Europe there has been developing as rift or division between Indymedia collectives (readers/tech support/editors/contributors). This division has interestingly been brought about by it's success, in several years a website and "ethos" known only to a few hundred has grown to a parallel newsservive a type of "online newspaper" and as it has developed those within it have sought to impose their vision. This is natural. But what is most interesting is that the division is now called by some that of "old europe" versus "new europe".
By "old Europe" is meant those cities and countries with a tradition of protest, alternativism and internet inspired leftist thought. By "new Europe" is meant those cities and countries that joined the family later on.
Ireland is indeed one of the "new Europe" sites, only being online for less than two years and formed in a different way to other collectives such as (the oldest in Europe) London, Barcelona, Nederlands and Italy.
Indymedia has never been without politics, and some of the centres (naturally perhaps) thought to extend the "effects and benefits and joys" of the indymedia family to new and more exotic cities and sites. Barcelona for example is thought by many to be instrumental in the spreading of new indymedia communities throughout the Spanish peninsula, south America and most recently the Maghreb. London soon after it's start in the late 90s became UK imc and prompted other imc communities in places as far apart as Bagdad and Australia! Italy found common ground with the impressive technological possiblities of the disobedient movement and explored sattelite TV. Austria soon after it's start took a very idiosyncratic turn and produced some of the most controversial graphic art in recent protester political activism.
In the last week an activist of "old Europe" has sought to make a short "definition" of what indymedia is about, I cut and paste it here for the information of many in Ireland who might have missed the subtle remit of the project they read, volunteered to, edit or even give tech support:

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from a nederlands imc woman invovled before ireland even got a page on indymedia.org
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Indymedia is many things to many people; it is
no ONE thing.

_ an international news organization;
_ a participatory media production and distribution platform;
_ a decentralized social and digital network;
_ a tactical media catalyst;
_ a people¹s CNN;
_ an activist communications network;
_ an experiment in global democracy;
_ a social phenomenon;
_ an advocacy network;
_ a bulletin board;
_ an organizing tool;
_ a chat room;
_ a laboratory for social and technological innovation;
_ an incredible experiment in self-governance; and
_ a pioneer in the communication landscape.

it's obviously an incomplete list. what are other ways people
describe or "define" indymedia?

another tension within indymedia that has to do with our
diversity/differences is between those who see our primary raison
d'etre to facilitate media (this was our motivation for the seattle
imc during the wto) and those who see it as producing media. i think
this is a very interesting point because it gets at the heart of a
lot of different things. here's another excerpt that talks about
this:

In a recent email from an IMC Germany member, a more generalized
tension between definitions was made: ³We¹ll never solve our
conflicts or contradictions about whether Indymedia is a network of
already existing and quite experienced independent media groups
trying to present the best possible work, or whether it¹s platforms
to empower as many people as possible to publish their view of
things. To me it¹s many things, of course, but the aspect of helping
people making active use of media, becoming media, making them
accessible is very relevant[to our times], and this is connected to
working on invisible things; making structures work so that a lot of
people can participate, can make decisions, understand why, how and
which decisions have been made before.² She goes on, but you get the
picture.

One of the tensions present in what she describes is between
facilitating media or producing media. I believe we can be all of
these things and still function, but it probably means much more
dialogue. She goes on to discuss the problems of geek culture and
lack of communication about the technology. This brings up teaching
and training and passing on the knowledge of technology. Her
critique is not an isolated event nor is it something only Indymedia
is experiencing. I¹m interested in solutions and how we can shift
these things. We are still a model and what we learn can be useful
to other networks.
**********************************************
**********************************************

The mutterings of seanin, the erudite ramblings of others, often _do_ have a place in the indymedia "experience". It is though worthy of comment that the lower emphasis placed on "funding" the experience, means that deletions on grounds of memory usage drop. Many naturally feel indymedia projects to be "thier concern" they think of their constant contribution, of their many hours spent of their euros in donation, and try to shape indymedia in their vision, but that was never the intention of those who started the project.
************************************************
What made the EZLN zapatista break onto the world was the freedom offered by the emerging technology to communicate an anarcho-snydicalist collective understandable to the greater world.
Indymedia thus at heart of conception is an "anarchist" project. There are and have been many who resent this. Perhaps they should start their own alternative news sites. One thing that joins all of the wide "anarchist" church together however is the rejection of irrational prejudice and fear, of ignorance, and thus the revisionist has no place in this world.
*************************************************
Enjoy indymedia, but be aware that many of the criteria above "chatroom", "message board", are relagated in Ireland imc as being not part of the needs or wants of the site. In Ireland the newswire rules, and articles that slow the readers access to "irish topical news" are quicker to be lost. This is often at the expense of new forms of protest, of new extension of the "anarchist" dream, that each member of society may contribute something, that even language itself find new forms in creative expression.
**************************ipsi************phi*****

by iosaf Wed Sep 03, 2003 17:44

you have surely exceeded the hopes of your creator, I only wish I had made you. But somehow I think the character (who is one of the IMC staffers) goes over the limits of good taste in the attempt to keep general Irish attitude on the newswire.

by crabadán linbh Tue Sep 02, 2003 23:16

Sure, making a whole article thread about seánín will surely discourage him from continuing to post, you numbskulls! It's easy to be leftist when your brain cells disintegrate from all that vegan food and the mary-juanita that you lads love to smoke "for world peace and against apartheid". Real men tell it like it is. Haven't any of you read that it's proven that the only efficient form of government for a population over 200 000 people is a dictatorship? Let me quote the great Denis Leary --"Whiny f**king maggots"

by david Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:48

what topics do indymedia censor?

it would only make sense to moderate certain opinions if they had a certain agenda to push, and if those opinions were indeed censored then most people would not be aware of what they were, so could you please enlighten us

by Mandy Mon Sep 01, 2003 13:03

Indymedia.ie has a track record of censorship, every kid on the block knows that! And I thought Uncle Sam was the only lying propaganda machine in town ...

by Lone Gunman Mon Sep 01, 2003 12:48

Of a person suffering from total brainwashing.To be found in all totalliarian,fundamentilist,religious societies as well as the US democrat and republican party.
Mostly delusional and harmless,because they are incapable of autonmous action,without their glorious leaders say so.

BTW KIMFAN.You must be working in the glorious N Korean govt.No one else has acess to the evil captailist,internet.

by david Mon Sep 01, 2003 11:31

I can't believe that this KJIFAN guy isn't just taking the piss. Nobody could be that idiotic.
Kim Jong II is no more working class than George W Bush, I doubt he's ever endured a moment of manual labour in his life.
He's not even the leader of N Korea, his dead father still is, so even the branwashed cant get the propaganda right.
Did Kim Jong II the scientist invent the question mark?

by KJIFAN Mon Sep 01, 2003 08:43

"I'm in NY and lately the media here is hard at work selling the idea that Kim Jong II is selling human meat in butcher shops"

This is another one of the capitalist media lies spread all over by the class enemy. Don't believe these lies.

by berniebird Mon Sep 01, 2003 03:59

hey, i've been complaining for months to the indymedia staffers at the sorts of seanin, iosaf, and such. I've begged for a moderator... i've offered my time to be a moderator, anything to rid these negative, vexatious beasties. IMC sticks to its guns though- no censorship- and fair play to them for that....
Only thing is, as i've read from numerous troll-like contributors, is that i've seen that they have, quote, "nothing better to do at work than piss off you idiot indyheads."
Well, so much for positive and productive dialogue... the trolls can indeed fuck off back to their caves.

oh, and what's this N. Korea ongoing banter? I'm in NY and lately the media here is hard at work selling the idea that Kim Jong II is selling human meat in butcher shops to cushion his own pockets.... it's hard to know who to believe anymore, true enough, i've seen with my own eyes homeless people eat roasted dog in downtown LA...

by >>>>>Seáinín Mon Sep 01, 2003 02:44

Who needs enemies with friends like KJIFAN. Any passerby surfing through here will very quickly form a neat judgement of the credibility of the anti-American fanatics posting here.

Go KJIFAN, you rock!

by KJIFAN Mon Sep 01, 2003 01:32

It doesn't matter what the gift was. Our leader Kim Jong Il is not a materialist person, he is a thinker and a philosopher, a scientist. This gift given to my favourite leader by chinese people shows us that working class people all around the world love and respect leader Kim Jong Il. He is truly a great leader and gives hope us all, maybe someday we all fave the priviledge to live under juche type socialism and Kim Jong Il's leadership. He is also a great anti-imperialist too. This is the biggest gift and he got it even before he was born from his father's semen.

by no 6 Mon Sep 01, 2003 01:10

These are I swear to god genuine news story from the Korean central news agency (check the link).

KIJAN this fails to fill the criteria of "news" because by the time you finish reading them article you are no better informed than if you'd never read the piece in the first place.

really mate when they were handing out brainwashings did you stay and get seconds?

--------------------------------------------
Foreigners visit various places
Pyongyang, April 11 (KCNA) -- The economic and commercial councillors' corps here visited the Korean Revolution Museum Thursday on the occasion of the Day of the Sun and the 10th anniversary of Kim Jong Il's election as Chairman of the National Defence Commission of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Being briefed on the fact that Kim Jong Il has successfully carried out the cause of perpetuating the memory of President Kim Il Sung and made an immortal contribution to the building of a great prosperous socialist power and the global cause of independence with his unique Songun revolutionary leadership, they looked round relics and mementoes on display.
On the same day they visited the Taedonggang Beer Factory.
That day officials in charge of cultural and friendly relations of foreign embassies here visited the Chongsan-ri Revolutionary Museum in Kangso district, Nampho city.
-----------------------------------------------
Gift to Kim Jong Il Pyongyang, April 11 (KCNA) -- Kim Jong Il received a gift from the visiting Chinese government cultural delegation. The gift was handed yesterday to Yang Hyong Sop, vice-President of the Presidium of the Supreme People's Assembly, by vice-Minister of Culture of China Zheng Xinmiao who is heading the delegation.
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You muppet censorship is so bad that you can't find out who these people are? or what the gift was? Or does the Korean news agency not want to let the starving pathetic masses know what a bloated corpulent decadent corrupt fuck like your "Glorious" leader lifestyle is like.

by phrodo Mon Sep 01, 2003 01:00

right here.

LOL Just wanted to get some agreement, as well as providing a space for people to purge their Trolling tendencies.

KJIFAN the anticapitalist

by KJIFAN Mon Sep 01, 2003 00:51

I dont see Indymedia being "democratic media without censorship" because news about my favourite leader, the lodestar of 21st century, mr Kim Jong Il are often being censured. Indymedia says it is part of the global anti-capitalist movement and Kim Jong Il is clearly the biggest leader this movement has. He is also the leader of democratia Korea, a land that is admired by anti-capaitalists around the world. If you want to see real democratic news media go to www.kcna.co.jp and you will find the truth about socialist Korea and the truth about my favourite leader Kim Jong Il. This is the truth that is being hidden from us by the capitalist media, dont believe theyre lies! Immortal juche idea will live forever!

by Sean Russell Mon Sep 01, 2003 00:41

If you want people to ignore him,why are you writing about him?

by comedian Mon Sep 01, 2003 00:19

but what if i can think of a really witty comment that will put him in his place and make him see the error of his ways?