Cork fascist thwarted from paper selling / recruitment

by Saor Tue Aug 10, 2004 15:33

That this man is allowed to peddle his rubbish is disgusting, and the state should intervene. It is rare that I can go a month or so, without being seeing some graffiti or propoganda in Dublin or in college, from those who wish to 'keep Ireland white', keep foreigners out, deny the holocaust or re-intrepert the holocuaust, the purges, the khmer rouge, the north korean experience. Fascism, Nazism and Communism are responsible for millions of deaths, from the killing fields of cambodia, to Stalinist Russia, Moaist China or the most evil expression of it in the concentration camps of Nazi Germany. Deny all the scum who preach the agendas of destruction free speech - whether they be communist, fascist or nazis - all equally expolitive, murderous and danagerous - no to hisotrical revisionism.

by come on Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:56

Does that have ANY relevance to todays debate on racsism!!!!!

That was just a hangover from the Civil War. From a modern perspective both groups should be seen as paramilitary undesirables.

What made the IRA less racist? Burning down "foreign" owned factories in the 1950s?

by gurley flynn Tue Aug 10, 2004 01:31

Do you think such tacics will work to counter the proto-fascist movement now being developed by Justin Barrett and Gerry McGeough?

by Gilbert O'Sullivan Mon Aug 09, 2004 19:03

No free speech for Fascists. Ever! They want to do away with it. Therefore they can't have it. Fuck them. We should do with all fascists what the IRA did with the Blueshirts in 1930s Ireland- beat them off the streets and beat them out of existence!

by not a nazi Mon Aug 18, 2003 16:56

love the pics,

whats a 'pro third world populist'?

by Ali la Pointe - fite dem back / Never Again! Thu Aug 14, 2003 16:27

It's got the "protocols of the elders of Zion" on it, a classic piece of 19th century jewish conspiracy nonsense intended as a hoax and taken up by the extreme right as a propaganda tool. It's presence, along with other explicitly revisionist and anti-semitic stuff on an Islamic site is disturbing for those of us who take a position against the political project known as Zionism for its genocidal practises against Palestinians. It leaves supporters of Palestinian rights wide open to accusations from right-wing zionists of being anti-semites. The trouble with SOME strands of Arab nationalism and political Islam is that there is a very definite anti-semitic bent to it, going back largely to the ideological and technical infiltration of Arab nationalist movements by German Nazis after the collapse of the 3d Reich. Many of the new regimes in the Arab world, pissed off with the Brits and French, took on German advisors and technocrats(eg The Sufi of Jerusalem, Iran, and Nasser's Egypt hired ex Nazis for their state-building projects).

But this is all deviation from the main point. There is no reason why anyone would exagerate Holocaust figures. It would serve no political purpose.
To cast doubt on the veracity of the Holocaust, or the Shoah, on the other hand undermines the memory of it and the reason for remembering it; to ensure it never happens again.
The person who put up the last posting is a nazi apologist, posing as some kind of pro-third world populist.

by not a nazi Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:33

Ray,
stop trying to paint me ot to be some kind of subversive raving nazi skinhead hiding behind a 'faux-innocent act' trying to 'fool you'. Im NOT.
you ask me whats the difference in killing two million or four million, answer; not much.
The issue I AM interested in is why numbers were exaggerated, IF that was the case, IF IF IF that were the case I would like to know by whom and for what purpose.

by Fintan Lane Fri Aug 08, 2003 03:24

There are some interesting comments on this thread and some that completely miss the point. Brian Wallace HAS freedom of speech to promulgate his nonsense, but we also have the right, nay the duty, to articulate our opposition. Short version: Nazis will be confronted whenever they appear on the streets of Cork and if they choose to scuttle off, then that's their problem. If they don't scuttle off then we will have no qualms about making their lives an absolute misery (in a non-violent sense, of course!).

by Phuq Hedd Fri Aug 08, 2003 00:51

which is that it was the NAZIs identification of individuals as being members of a group which was important. Whether one accepts or rejects an identity becomes irrelevant when a powerful outsider decides what you are. The ability to choose one's own identity and not have it forced upon one from outside is one of the violations of which people of the fascist persuasion are guilty. In any case, the NAZIs were firstly concerned with eliminating political opposition as "communists" and only later turned their attention to "jews".

by kokomero Thu Aug 07, 2003 22:14

Phuq Hedd it is fair to say that many prominent communists were also Jews, so it may be difficult to seperate the 2 categories and say which came first.

by Ali la Pointe - fite dem back / Never Again! Thu Aug 07, 2003 19:09

Just go to the link.

by Phuq Hedd Thu Aug 07, 2003 19:02

and the "authorized" quote by Niemoller's widow is a little more political than the dubious congressional record (can't be reminding the US public that the main opposition to the NAZIs was Comm-YOU-nist, can we?!):

First they came for the Communists, but I was
not a Communist - so I said nothing.

Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I
was not a Social Democrat - so I did nothing.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, but
I was not a Trade Unionist.

And then they came for the Jews, but I was not
a Jew - so I did little.

Then when they came for me, There was no one
left who would stand up for me.


Of course this leaves out the gypsies and the homosexuals and the slavs - but it does make the point that political opposition was led by the communists and that they were among the first exterminated.

by Mr. Sofa Thu Aug 07, 2003 13:35

According to Harry W. Mazal, the exact text of what Martin Niemöller said, and which appears in the Congressional Record, 14, October 1968, page 31636, is:


When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church — and there was nobody left to be concerned.

by Ray Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:38

Why do you think there is a big difference between nazis that worked millions to death in slave labour camps, and killed (for example) four million directly, and nazis that worked millions to death in slave labour camps and killed (for example) two million directly.
The only purpose served by the attempt to question or reduce the number of people killed in the Holocaust is to say the nazis weren't so bad, and the Jews are bad for lying about it.
Your faux-innocent act isn't fooling anyone.

by eoin Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:29

the question thought, is your quest for 'truth' solely related to refutation of the holocaust, or do you seek truth in all areas of life?

I'm interested to here your opionion of Fritz Stangal, Rudolph Hoss, Adolph Eichmann, all of whom have confirmed that the 'Final Solution' was an extirmination plan.

No matter how much you delude your self with the pseudo-history spread by David Irving, Leuchter, Zundel et al the simple truth will win out....

by not a nazi Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:01

please ray, im not a nazi apologist.
I am not denying the holocaust, although some go that far - I definitely do not.
What I am interested in is the fact that many things alleged to have happened during the Holocaust did not, or at least to put it more accurately and honestly, evidence exists to the contrary.
What i am interested in is the truth.
Why does contrary evidence exist?, if they are lies, and the conventional history is the complete and accutrate truth, then there is nothing to fear from asking questions, it can only result in celebrating your version of events...and so be it.
I am not a Nazi apologist.
Contrary evidence exists, and cannot be intelligently refuted if you choose to suppress it.

by Ray Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:42

Its a damn sight more convincing than nazi apologists.
There's also the testimony of the Auschwitz camp commander. Presumably he was an undercover Mossad agent.
The testimony of SS men stationed there, of the camp doctor, another SS man. All Jewish agents.
And then there are all those millions of missing people. Hiding out somewhere in Israel are they?

Why don't you take your pathetic arguments somewhere else?

by not a nazi Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:05

i see military evacuations, forced emigration, workcamps, forced sterilisations, etc etc, but NOWHERE do i read plans for death camps and gas ovens. the 'final solution' is described as a forced expulsion of jews from germany throughout the document.

by Ray Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:01

The Holocaust happened. Millions of people were killed. That's a fact.
The ongoing attempt to deny it happened, or (when that proves impossible) to get the numbers down as far as possible, serves no purpose but to try to excuse the nazis, and foment more anti-semitism. IMC Ireland policy is to delete deliberate falsehoods - like Holocaust denial - and also defamatory posts - like the allegation that the Holocaust was cooked up or exaggerated by Jews. This policy will continue to be applied.

by eoin Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:56

what about the Wannsee Conference and Protocol?

by not a nazi Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:53

Ray, fair enough ray for editing my previous post, but no-fair banning a subject becuse you dont agree, and why do you think revionism is historically unfounded, stupid, infactual, deliberate lies.? just because you were told?
I understand that holocaust denial is plain stupid, but nobodys denying that (well maybe that guy in cork was) but what do you find so offensive about unravelling the truth from the propaganda relating to the most important period in modern history.. ?
I am not a nazi, and i do not take revisionism as gospel. Who put you in charge of whats true and false, do you think youre protecting site users from nazi mind control by deleting material? the deleted comment outlined some well established lies that have been circulated and subsequently flushed down the memory hole because they no longer held up to scrutiny. There is nothing to be afraid of, we all *know* and agree that a great crime against humanity was perpetrated, but what interests many is how this crime has been twisted and used for political purposes since.
Another crime, this time aginst history, is being perpetrated by thise who will not allow the facts to be assessed in the light of new and additional evidence.
I AM NOT A NAZI, i do not believe in the inherent superiority of the aryan race, i do believe in allowing people access to all points of view, EVEN those that may be distasteful or repugnant. How the hell can you say that revision of history can be wrong in itself?
Im sure those skinhead thugs who preach nazi idealism either deny or excuse the holocaust but that really is a different kettle of fish.

by Independent Thinker Thu Aug 07, 2003 01:30

It just goes to show how weak the Holocaust story is if it wont even stand up to debate.

Im far from a Nazi but I do think noone has a point, if it did happen them why is revisioism banned in many countrys, also the fact that no Nazi plans to kill jews were ever found neither were gas chuambers.

No revisionist has ever said no jews died in WW2 but the Fact is the HC didnt happen its like WMDs and santa clause it doesint exist.

by run out of town Thu Aug 07, 2003 01:28

why did the prime eg of aryan nazi filth manhood run and hide, thats noway to conduct yourself, have some pride nazi filth. stand and fight, don't hide behind mammy's skirts again.

by eirepunx Wed Aug 06, 2003 22:15

if u use the state provided means of political cencorship, then it's not going to be as easy to be opposed to it. Used against SF it was a bad thing? But against Nazis a good thing.. and what if the state are using it against you?

I think nazis should be allowed to have their say, but people should counter leaflet them and if the nazis should get hurt on the way home afterwards well no1 wud mind..

by kokomero Wed Aug 06, 2003 18:12

What exactly is your point?

My point is that the state has extensive leglislation which it used to deny Sinn Fein a voice for over a decade which could also be used to silence nazis and other undesireables.

I for one think it is only fair that if such legislation exists that it be used to silence the extreme right, given it has already been used to silence the Republican left, fair is fair after all.

BTW I am no West Brit as you would know if you checked your facts before shooting your mouth off and voted Sinn Fein last time round!

by me - in a personal capacity Wed Aug 06, 2003 17:05

You can bicker away about exactly how many Jews were killed and where they were killed and even how. It's totally beside the point.

The fact is that the ideology of Nazi Germany like aparthied ideology in South Africa were based on the basic principal of one race being superior and having the right to repress, hurt and kill other races.

You can come on here and cut and paste a little bit of your 'revisionist' propaganda but dont come here and tell people we are being duped.
You read your 'revisionist' literature and take it as gospel. You dont question that maybe these books are wrong, are written by hate filled people with an agenda. You say we are foolish for believing history books (which I'm sure few people here do without thinking seriously first) but you read and believe your propaganda unquestioningly.

Maybe it is you who is being duped, ever think of that?

by not a nazi, Wed Aug 06, 2003 16:18

The Holocaust: Let's hear both sides


Ray - No, let's not. Holocaust revisionism is historically unfounded. Its only purpose is fascist propaganda. And its not allowed on this site. Any more attempts at sneaking it in will also be deleted (as infactual and obviously false posts - see the guidelines).

Holocaust revisionism is not just offensively stupid, its plain offensive. The millions of people who died in the camps, the survivors, and their relatives deserve better than to be insulted by idiots. Now fuck off.

(edited by Ray, 6/8, 16:10)

by An Broc Wed Aug 06, 2003 15:45

Some fucking West Brit "leftist" wrote:

Deny these people the oxygen of publicity! The state has done it
before under section 31

Oh what a giveaway!

Musn't let these damned Irish make their own minds up, eh? Next thing
you know, they'll be taking up arms to fight for their freedom!

by Lone gunman Wed Aug 06, 2003 14:10

Why dont you lot just tool up and kill each other off? You are no different from each other,and you would be doing us in Ireland and the world a big favour.

by reo Wed Aug 06, 2003 13:23

Have any of you bigots ever read any revisionist books?
(edited by Ray. There will be no adverts for Holocaust-denial sites on indymedia)

by Ali la Pointe - fite dem back Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:58

Better watch yourself man, I've just had a dispatch from Simon Wiesenthal and you're number one on my shitlist. I've been instructed by him and the Zionist Occupation Government to set my Moslem brothers on you to bugger you while your sister is forced to marry a black man and produce mixed race children. Your mother is already initiated secretly into a Roma pagan lesbian love kabal as instructed by the Comintern and funded by Jews. Your father is going to find his true meaning after taking five hundred grams of mescalin and enticing a syphillitic pensioner to shit in his mouth.

by Peddle Phil - fiddlers Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:40

If only the German left had reported Hitler to the police, things could have turned out so differently... really!

by Fergus - anti-bolshevik communist Wed Aug 06, 2003 01:48

As soon as they can they will beat the left to death. Stamp it out while it's weak, or let it crush you: it really is as simple as that. There is no other political movement which operates in the same way that I know of and this is the only circumstance when I would contemplate violence against political enemies. As soon as somebody declares that they are part of a fascist movement, they have already declared war on the left - it's in their programme in black and white (no pun intended). They start the violence, we don't. If some violent criminal on your estate declared that he was going to kill you and your family, and he had a track record of doing so, would you sit back and watch him knocking at all your neighbours' houses trying to intimidate and cajole them into helping him kill you and your kids? No, of course not, you'd have a go while he's still weak. Any other answer makes you a moron in my book, with some responsibility for the deaths of your family. It's all very well having your abstract principles when somebody else is getting beaten to a pulp by the nazis - just plain old liberal hypocrisy.

On the other hand, this "double-O anti-nazi, licence to use violence" must be used with extreme caution if we don't want to become what they are. We must be quite sure that they really are fascists before we get the boot in. Even when we know they are fascists, we only want to crush them if they are a realistic threat. It seems to me that these revisionists are morons and therefore not a threat at the moment. I mean denying the holocaust as a way of recruiting??? You have to be a right eejit to believe anything along this line - I suppose the auschwitz survivors were hobgoblin actors trained by the illuminati? Some of those ones who are still alive today are fucking good actors you must admit!

Even though these revisionist morons are probably not a threat, you don't want to risk complacency. Who knows they might find a bunch of half wits to join with them and before you know it they start kicking your comrades' heads in. So for now the right tactic is very visible surveillance and harrasment. Let them understand that you know who they are and if they try _anything_ they will pay dearly. Fair play the corkies, don't let these langers out of your sight.

by Paul Tue Aug 05, 2003 22:12

All you 'good' socialists saved the people of Ireland from this 'Nazi.' Congrats, lads. I mean, he was about to turn Irish children into Irish Spring soap, because that's what Nazis do!

What fools you lot are. Go check under your bed for 'fascists' and 'right-wingers,' because they're infiltrating you!

My goodness, you socialists need a hobby; quickly!

You still believe the lies about soap and lampshades, eh? How about the original plaque at Auschwitz about the "4 million murdered" there that had to be changed to 1.5 million?

Do you fellows get periodic newsletters from Simon Wiesenthal about what exactly to believe about the 'holocaust.' Because your fear of revisionism or research leads me to the conclusion that you have no clue about history.

Do your master's bidding, servants.

by kokomero Tue Aug 05, 2003 19:04

On the example of kiddyporn it is not necessary that someone peddles it on the street for it to be offensive.

You can easily imagine some pervert campaigning on the street about liberalising anit-childporn laws and extolling the merits of not bottling up the perversion.

I suppose Seanin and the other pseudo-liberals would be all in favour of such a hypothetical monster having free-speech?

Relying on the law which is very slow moving and ineffective in many cases due to the large prision population is very naiive, and in any case the Gardai and the lawyers in this country are on the same side as Noone & Co.

Just like the kids with huge strings of convictions, Nazis will simply laugh at a court case and use it as publicity. Remember Hitler was a nobody before he was put in jail?

I agree with people who take direct action against these people while they are on their own or in small groups, the alternative of letting them gain ground is too terrible to contemplate!

It is already happening as Aine Ni Chonnail and the ICP have been given a platform by TV, radio and the newspapers because it causes controversy and helps to sell more advertising. Isn't it wonderful how the free-market works?

by Seáinín Tue Aug 05, 2003 18:39

Boring.

If a guy is peddling kiddyporn then you would go to the police and report him. You don't take the law into your own hands because you are not the law.


Similarly, if you believe Noone is disseminating material which contravenes the law then report him to the police. Don't take the law into your own hands. If the police find he has not broken any law then you must not yourselves break the law by harassing him. If you're not happy with the laws, campaign your TDs to get them changed.

Simple, really.

by free speech Tue Aug 05, 2003 18:12

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out — because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out — because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out — because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me —
and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.

you can vocally disagree with the man, but do you not think that your silencing of him makes his position more glamorous? more interesting? convinces his fellow travellers that there is something of truth in what he is saying that the people who stopped him speaking are trying to hide?

by Pedlle Phil - fiddling about Tue Aug 05, 2003 17:41

I would like to hand out some of my choice pictures of naked children in various positions outside some of our primary schools at 3.30 in the afternoon. Anybody there want to jump to my defence and protect my right to freedom of expression?

by Deridre - Catholic Worker/Fairview anti-war Tue Aug 05, 2003 17:31 dee_clancy at yahoo dot co dot uk

Actually, just today I saw some of Wallace's material, along with a dossier of information about his activities, and it's very MUCH in breach of the anti-incitement laws. The guy is full of hate. So maybe you should give the Cork activists the benefit of the doubt and get your facts correct, rather than jumping to conclusions. They've done more research than you could imagine.

by jeff Tue Aug 05, 2003 17:13

..."Truth above freedom of speech"

Sounds like you want to send this boy to a Maoist Re-education camp.

I hate nazi filth as much as the next person. Just the other day I saw some blond midget with a runic symblo tatooed on one arm(ulwaz, I think) and a swatika on the other and a facial expression that said @Cut me and you'll get flem instead of blood." And of course he was wearing one of those Replay tops Johnny Adair is fond of.

Yuck.

That said, if you want to challenge one of these pr*cks, you should do it one on one. But then they'll probably stab you. But at least you were nicer to him, than say if it was the other way round, ie; one SWP paper seller and ten members of C18.

What is best to do is check the stuff and see if it contains stuff in contravention of incitement laws. If no, well unfortunatly it is freedom of speech. You seem like decently motivated people, but the point is this ; Who watches the watchers?

There are days for example where I would love to kick in the skull of that pro Israeli law lecturer in UCD who was ranting on tv during Gulf War 2, the little prick. But if I went out and bait him for egalitarian reasons, then I'd be breaking an ever greater law of protection, a law affored to us all, that is, freedom of speech.

If anyone knows the horrible little dwarf( ie; the UCD lecturer)the will know what I am talking about.Maybe I will see him in a pub one day and start a fight with him when I'm drunk enough. Oh, ho, ho, 'till be funny, unless he knows judo.

by kokomero Tue Aug 05, 2003 16:59

To hell with freedom of speech when this sort of activity is concerned, by extension they'll be looking for freedom of speech for paedophiles next.

Deny these people the oxygen of publicity! The state has done it before under section 31 and has more than adequate incitement to hatred/racism legislation so why aren't they doing something about it too.

Cork seems to be a real hot-bed for this type of activity. I wonder if there's a tie up with Aine NiChonnaill and her racist ICP?

by Lola Tue Aug 05, 2003 15:24

Truth above freedom of speech
Solidarity over Hate
Knowledge above Ignorance
PRIORITISE YOUR PRINCIPLES

by Matt Tue Aug 05, 2003 15:20 mattt at oceanfree dot net 087 2275657

Fair enough, you stopped some sad bastard selling rubbish. No need to make it sound like the Battle of Stalingrad.

by Malatesta Tue Aug 05, 2003 13:23

No censorship.

by Myles Tue Aug 05, 2003 13:06

No in fairness well welldone to the anti revisionists. The right wing filth should not have a platform