Disturbing Anti-Immigrant Comments from Councillor

by ec Mon Jul 14, 2003 16:24

GOVERNMENT policy to deport families with Irish born children provoked a protest rally outside the Dail last week.

Residents Against Racism was joined by TD Joe Higgins (SP) during the demonstration on Thursday (July 3) organised by the pressure group's founder Roseanna Flynn and her colleague Mark Grehan.

Labour Party justice spokesman Joe Costello (Lab) TD has also been critical of Justice Minister Michael McDowell's Immigration Bill, claiming amendments have been introduced by the Minister at such a late stage it signals a “flagrant contempt” for the Dail and the legislative process.

Residents Against Racism marched with immigrant families from the Central Bank at 12 noon demanding that all children born in Ireland be given equal access to rights and the law.

“ All we ask is that the descendants of the new community in Ireland are given the same chances,” a spokesman said.

Deputy Costello claims the changing face of the Immigration Bill - 14 pages long, with 32 pages of amendments - is a "chilling assault on the right to asylum and are in flagrant breach of the Geneva Convention on refugees.”

He added: “The Human Rights Commission has been completely ignored by the Minister despite this being a vital human rights issue.”

Meanwhile, Fingal councillor Jon Rainey warned racism will thrive if the Government persists along its current policy of integrating immigrants and Irish nationals.

He claims the Government is treating Irish nationals as second class citizens to immigrants, which will inevitably "sow the seeds of racial unrest in future years”.

The controversial statement is based, he claims, on recent census figures which suggest almost six per cent of the county's population is non-national.

Cllr Rainey has demanded the Government come clean on what additional benefits, grants and assistance is being given to immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers as "many appear to be living a live of luxury compared to struggling young Irish people”.

" I have had many discussions with constituents in recent months, with many individuals highlighting the obvious ease non-nationals have in obtaining a house, a car, car insurance, medial cards and the latest fashions all without the need for a job," he said.

" At a time when young Irish taxpayers are struggling to own homes, educate their children and wrestling with the spiralling costs of car insurance and increased taxation, it is clear some non-nationals are either multi-millionaires, heavily subsidised by the state or fleecing the system at the expense of taxpayers."

The councillor's forthright views were expressed to The Northside People this week with the argument that Irish immigrants are prepared to work hard and contribute to the communities in which they adopt, while many of the non-nationals arriving in Ireland do not.

This is disputed by Bowale Oluwole Arisekola, from Nigeria, who moved to Ireland in 1999 and has been the publisher of the Street Journal since June 2002, a newspaper that provides information to immigrants trying to adapt to their new surrounds.

Mr Arisekola, who welcomed in December plans by the Justice Minister Michael McDowell to adopt a more selective immigration policy similar to America's and Australia's - so only those who can contribute to society gain entry into the country - believes most people who come to Ireland want to work.

“ If you cannot contribute to the country, you should go back to where you come from,” he said. “Otherwise, what point is there in being here? They should be able to contribute to the economy but the Government must give them this opportunity – they must allow people to work.”

Alleging there is a discrepancy in favour of immigrants when it comes to local authorities allocating houses for families, Cllr Rainey insists he will seek clarification from the Eastern Health Board and Mr McDowell to assess "how the present immigration policy is affecting existing stable Irish communities".

He claimed: "It is so unfair Irish people remain on housing lists for months and years while others get housed at the speed of lightening."

by iosaf Mon Jul 14, 2003 17:46

that Irish people stay on housing lists for so long.
On average Irish people stay seven years on housing lists, and some never get that London Authority House or flat ever ever never.

Because it is so so terribly unfair,
that Most Irish people (75%) on housing lists
are on housing lists in the UK!

why is that?

Because they realise early on that they are not "Irish" enough to stay.
so they opt for the "Diasporia" option.
here is how the "Diasporia" option goes....

You leave. You don't come back.
You arrive in London, Liverpool or last choice Scotland.
You visit the local council you put your name on the list.
I put my name on the list seven years ago.
I broke the rules.
I put my name on several lists.
Lambeth, Hackney and Chelsea (coz I'm snobby).

NOW if you are "on the list" and have a baby you go up the list.
If you are "on the list" and you're earning _earning_ you go down the list.
(you are then maybe maybe welcome back in ireland, a country that likes _earners_)

If you tire of the "list" you can go
SQUAT!
Now if you SQUAT! you don't stay on the list.
You go on another list.
the "don't give that known organised squatter a home" list.
If you have a baby, you go the special "don't give that organised and known squatter a home unless it's a shelter first" list.

I tired of being "diasporia".
I tired of being on the list.
I tired of being evicted.
I even tired of SQUATTING!

I will never forget the night I realised after talking to the nice [they do good nice in Streatham] housing assoc. rep.
I was informed I was on the "known organised SQUATTER list" and as such, if my house on "i am homeless but welcome in Britain list" came up, I would be refused it within 48 hours of beurocracy.
48 hours is the length of time it takes British beurocracy to put the "homeless and obedient" list together with "HOMELESS AND DISOBEDIENT" list.

Which are you?
homeless and obedient?
or
homeless and disobedient?

by Sean Keegan Mon Jul 14, 2003 19:43

I don't like the PDs, but this guy is right. What he is saying is just common sense. If you are here illegally, and have been asked to leave, you should go. If you don't go, you should be forced to go, at the very least by having all your benefits withdrawn.

by iosaf Mon Jul 14, 2003 21:49

how do you suggest people ought be forced leave?

do you suggest planes be chartered?
you will have problems. The plane workers won't do that anymore.

do you suggest bringing them up the Swords road and leaving them just south of Newry?
you will have problems. The people of Newry have had enough of the Irish dumping their problems on County Down.

do you suggest perhaps housing these people in purpose built non leisure camps till room is found for them out east somewhere?
you will have problems.
People think that is fascist for some reason or other.

No Mr Keegan you will really have to _·think·_ a little bit harder before you ever ever
agree with a PD.

by kate Mon Jul 14, 2003 23:27 cork

What a complete play on the 'race-card'. Seems to me that when he uses the term immigrant what he really means are asylum seekers and refugees. Fact of the matter is that those groups make up a small minority of the immigrants that move to Ireland. Im Irish born of English parents, how come they dont wants to send me 'home'.

What annoys me the most is how anyone has the right to tell someone else where they can and cant live. Can anyone argue that I deserve a better life and better chances just because I look the same as everybody else. Alot of indymedia reader I think would agree that the affleunce of the north is built on the surpression of the majority world. The phased introduction of an open borders policy world-wide would soon have national governments sitting up and taking notice of the forgotten billions.

by Richard Tue Jul 15, 2003 00:54

The PD Cllr is right to question the system - if he's wrong we can all be sure everything is ok - however if he's right it will give the Government the push to change it.

by - Tue Jul 15, 2003 02:07

I'm sick and fucking tired of people thinking that the PDs are in some way the 'good' guys in the government and they are in there preventing the naughty and cavaleer FFers from excessive bad rule.

This is of course not the case. The PDs are Tories. They are ideological right wingers, consciously represent the interests of the bourgeois and should be absolutly and tirelessly opposed by all on the left.

These racist rantings by the PD councillor are a disgrace and he shoudl resign. He is playing the race card in order to shift the blame from his corrupt and rotten system and onto fellow workers. The PDs are clearly trying to set Irish workers agains immigrant workers, they are doing this very consciously. What we need is a common struggle involving all workers regardless of race, religion or nationality for decent housing, jobs and social welfare for all.

by Seáinín Tue Jul 15, 2003 04:24

He's just voicing the concerns of the people who voted for him.

It's you PC Nazi's who make a big deal about race and this causes the minorites to go around with a chip on their shoulders.

by MG Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:18

...you're perfectly entitled to fuck off.

by Lone Gunman Tue Jul 15, 2003 12:55

Deport them via a charterd jet from Baldonnell.Armed area and no trade unionists to whinge .Tents and chainlink fence and razor wire are pretty cheap.As is armed security.Set up the camp and processing centre[with all the approved liberal PC requirements of course.Like ethnic meneues,24hour cable TV ,etc etc.] on Baldonnell or the Curragh.Those that are cleared in 21 days after a thorough check are given a green card for a year into irish society.That entitles you to work.You must stay at one address After a year if you have no job or a court apperance or left your place of living.Back on the plane to Africa or where ever you came from

by Observer Tue Jul 15, 2003 19:04

This Rainey has his own website at http://www.jonrainey.ie where he gives lots of ways of contacting himself, if anyone should be so inclined....

by Seáinín Wed Jul 16, 2003 04:05

that the negro populations of the US and UK are responsible for a disproprtionate amount of the street crime, housebreaking and rapes in terms of their numbers in the general population.

I don't want my parents to be attacked one night by some negro high on crack. Statistically, that's more likely if more of them come to stay in Ireland.

You can say 'ugh, racist pig' all you like but the numbers are there to prove it. In fact, you liberal whiners make it worse, repeating the lie that negroes are the downtrodden in society, giving them an almighty chip on their shoulders.

by Chekov Wed Jul 16, 2003 16:11

Seanin, stating that black people are responsible for a disproportionate amount of various crimes in the US and UK and then implying that this proves that they are genetically pre-disposed towards criminality might convince you, but only if you are indeed as simple as you seem.

To mention a few obvious problems with your 'thesis':

1. To prove your point, that race is a significant factor in criminality, you would have to eliminate all other possible causal factors - especially in this case economic class. Blacks in the US and UK are, overall, poorer than whites. So, to even begin to make an argument, you'd have to do a comparison with another group in a similar economic position. Otherwise you're could just as well make the claim that smoking causes liver failure (people who smoke are more likely to die of liver failure but the two are unrelated - people who smoke are also more likely to drink excessively).

2. You would also have to factor out systemic racism. It has long been claimed, with very plausible evidence, that one of the reasons for the over-representation of minorities within prisons is bias among the cops and courts. This is a very difficult thing to factor out, but unless you do so, your claims are pretty much scientifically worthless.

3. You would have to deal with significant anomalies. For example, in Ireland and elsewhere, black people have been to date significantly under-represented among criminals. Is this because, although whites are less criminal than blacks, everybody is less criminal than the Irish.

4. You would have to address the genetic issue - in that although black people may share a relative skintone, genetic variation within people called 'black' is as wide as it is between black people and white people. Looking at a handful of specific genes and saying that these alone determine behaviour is not something that you will find supported by too many geneticists.

To sum up. Your argument is stupid. But you probably don't care. I suspect that you are a racist, you're not interested in the truth, you're interested in 'facts' that confirm your racism, no matter how moronic they are.

by LOL LOL Lol LOL Wed Jul 16, 2003 16:26

very amusing you must admit

by Sean Russell - Fianna:Defenders of Ireland Thu Jul 17, 2003 00:37

No referendum has been held with a YES vote for the Colonization of Ireland and the Genocide of the Indigenous Irish population.Therefore the current Plantation of Leinster,Munster,Connaght and Ulster is ILLEGAL and should be resisted.

by Seáinín Thu Jul 17, 2003 03:44

Chekov, you're talking shite and you know it. Spend some time in a large city in the US and UK and you'll see it for yourself.

Negroes also do poorly on IQ tests. This has been tested exhaustively and the tests always show them to be about 20 IQ points below all other racial groups. Some say this is caused by 'reduced expectation' ie. thinking they'll do badly so they do badly.

Anyway, that doesn't bother me and crime does. I don't give a fuck about the CAUSES, I just don't want a negro crime wave in Ireland and the best way to prevent this is tough immigration laws.

by Balor Thu Jul 17, 2003 13:36

I'm sick and tired of every time that some comment is passed on Immigrants the Commenter is branded as Racist.

The Majority of "Refugees" here don't continue their asylum applications after they have a child here, reason beeing the application is usually fraudulent. Ask Any Customs worker in Dublin Airport how many forged passports/work permits/birth certificates etc etc. are seized by customs on request of the GNIB. They have a list of Countries that they check all the Post and packaging for and usually do find illegal documents. One Nigerian Recently arrested had 5 passports with his photo on them for 5 differnet countries, this is common practice. When 1 ID is rejected, you just use another and move house.

Anyone who drinks in Dublin can see the amount of Oriental Lounge staff there is. All these people are working Illegally. They Don't have work permits and are over here on Student Visa's They don't pay tax. Their Employers pay less tax. They also have grants paid for by the Tax payer!! How many Coloured Doormen do you see around the Country?? To be a qualified insured security guard in this country you need to have an SII licence. To get one here you need to be an Irish or EU citizen or resident here for 10 years! So uninsured "Bouncers" are enforcing the will of Pub and Night Club Owners Nationwide!

Its not a racism issue its to do with people comong to this country specifically becasue we have leniant Immigration and asylum laws. and becasue Our Social welfare system is so kind to immigrants and refugees, Where they abuse it. They Work and Don't pay taxes! They Claim fraudulent Social welfare Benefits. They use Fake Identities. They cost the Irish Taxpayer €6 Billion last year alone. The effect on the Economy is unknown. but the Fact is these "refugees" are not putting any money back into the country. I know a Romanian woman who claims the Dole, Works, and sent her Daughter Back to Romania (at 6 months old) yet still claims the Childrens allowance and sends it western union back home where her whole family live off it. are you saying this woman has a right to stay because she was a victim of Chauchescu's oppressive regime?? Bollox she can stay because Ireland is a soft touch and no one in the Government will go after these scammers because of the "Racism" Backlash!!!

by Mags Thu Jul 17, 2003 14:07

Balor, stop talking bollix. When people spread myths and lies and use these to provoke opposition to immigrants they ARE guilty of racism.

The persons working in the pubs are students. They are legitimately here on student visas. Under such visas they are entitled to work 20 hours per week. Non EU students DO NOT get grants. These students from China and Malaysia have to pay much more than Irish or EU students for their courses, in addition to the costs of travelling here, living, accommodation, etc. Anyway who else is going to collect your glasses and sweep up your shit in the pubs?

Given the widespread dodginess of the 'security' industry, which has been going on for years, it is interesting you zero in on the few non-national bouncers. I assume you mean the Black ones. I have spoken to some of these and they are not African, but English. But you would not make a judgement based on the fact they are 'coloured' (isn't everyone?), since you claim not to be a racist!

It really is too wearying to constantly point out that asylum seekers are entitled to 19e per week and bed and board. That is it. Refugees (who have status) are entitled to work, benefits, etc. on the same basis as any other Irish resident.

But you are more interested in spreading myths about whole Romanian villages living it up on the Irish childrens allowance.

by Ray Thu Jul 17, 2003 14:08

But apparently anyone who isn't white is automatically a refugee or an illegal immigrant.

Refugees aren't allowed to work when their claims are being processed. "Balor" criticises refugees who work illegally, and also criticises refugees who don't work. But that's okay, because Balor isn't racist.

Refugees who have children here often drop their refugee claim, and apply for residence instead. They are/were advised to do this by the people processing their claims. Balor criticises this, but that's okay, because balor isn't racist.

Balor makes shit up (refugees costing 6 billion a year, this Romanian woman he knows, grants to overseas students), but that's okay, because Balor isn't a racist.

You're not fooling anyone.

by Tiocfaidh Armani - Na Fianna Éireann Thu Jul 17, 2003 17:40 info at fiannaeireann dot com Dublin

Seán who you stop using the name Na Fianna to spread your racist bile.
You and your crew have being banned from our site and you seem to have an anti Republican agenda also.
Asylum seekers are welcome here and you and your cronies only wish to spread lies about to promote your hatred of them. You live sad lives.

by Chekov Thu Jul 17, 2003 18:41

Academic bullshit? Just a little elementary lesson in cause and effect. You can't state that a is a cause of b, without isolating factor a. Probably too complicated for you though.

Having abandoned your 'evidence' based argument, you opt for the anecdotal. I have spent much time as an immigrant worker in cities with large non-white populations and I can tell you that this proved nothing to me. Indeed I am certain that such anecdotal experience can't prove anything to anybody. At least if that person is interested in finding out the actual situation and not just confirming their own racism.

Also, since your not interested in the causes of crime, how on earth do you propose to stop it. Surely you can only stop something by stopping the causes. Again this is obviously because your not really interested in stopping crime, you just want to use it as a means of whipping up racism.

Your evidence about IQ tests is bullshit by the way. Lets have some links to the 20% discrepancy. Your account of the liberals' reasons for the discrepancy is also horseshit. The argument is actually that IQ tests include cultural biases towards those who compose them. US "Ghetto IQ" tests, using different cultural assumptions show negroes scoring above whites. Also, according to several UK papers, Irish folk score significantly lower than Brits on IQ tests, again probably due to cultural biases in the tests.

But I'm sure that you aren't interested in evidence, or 'academic bullshit'. You know very well that blacks are inferior, fuck the evidence. You don't like them, you are afraid of them and that's all you need to know. You are a racist muppet and that's all I need to know.