'Disco Disco' - new autonomous centre/zone opens up in central Dublin (with pictures)

by one of many - acs Sun Jul 13, 2003 19:17

On Sunday on Parnell square west go down and check it out
http://www.1978.org/discodisco/

by . Sun Jul 13, 2003 19:40 in crises.

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.
merci beaucoup
danke schön
to da
moltes gracías.

by redandblack jack - the invisables Sun Jul 13, 2003 21:25

it was brilliant to see this happening, well done to everyone involved! an anarchist camping weekend in cork and we still managed to crack a squat in Dublin! we'd want to watch or we'll start feeling like we can actually get things done :)

by Bertie Sun Jul 13, 2003 22:02

Lots done, more to do ;-)

by Chekov Sun Jul 13, 2003 23:05

Really well organised, went like clockwork. I was very impressed. Great first step, now we have to hold it - it's gonna need a lot of support, so let's get down to it.

by Garden of Insurrection Sun Jul 13, 2003 23:32

Everyone: get down there with money, food, anything you think can help the people.

Autonomousity!

by Indymedia Kevin - IMC Éire Mon Jul 14, 2003 00:47

Round 2 of photos
Photos from Disco Disco.

by Indymedia Kevin - IMC Éire Mon Jul 14, 2003 00:53

More images from todays opening.
And more after these boys as well...

by Indymedia Kevin - IMC Éire Mon Jul 14, 2003 00:59

Last of the images from the opening of 'Disco Disco', brand new autonomous zone in the heart of Dublin.
And as I upload these last five images - I hear the crack of thunder outside. Good luck to all of those inside Disco Disco. As many people said today, Dublin needs an autonomous space for people to meet in, hopefully it will be a success.

by 'Disco Disco' - Collective Mon Jul 14, 2003 01:20

Autonomous Community Space
Press Release - Sunday, July 13th 2003

"Happy is the citizen who obeys"
- Latin inscription on Dublin Corporation Logo
AUTONOMOUS SPACE OPENED IN PROTEST AT HOUSING CRISIS
At 3 pm activists from Autonomous Community Space opened up a derelict building on 41 Parnell Square (West) that has been unused and derelict for the last 11 years. The activists are aiming to highlight a number of issues including spiralling rents and the lack of affordable housing. The autonomous space is in the heart of the Taoiseach's constituency of Dublin Central.

Issuing a statement from Autonomous Space Community Cian O'Callaghan, press spokesperson said:
"There are a ridiculous number of empty buildings in Dublin. Boarded up, unused, waiting for the highest price so they can be turned into cramped apartments that no one can afford. Meanwhile people sleep on the streets, students work 30 hours on top of college so they can pay exorbitant suburban rents, and families are forced into unsuitable rented accommodation because they have no hope of affording their own home."

"Every one of us deserves our own space. Somewhere without the burden of ever escalating rent, unsafe conditions, and the threat of yet again having to move on when the money runs out. At the same time perfectly habitable buildings lie idle all over the city. Dublin's obedient citizens are working longer and longer to pay rent. Even our Taoiseach has admitted that the same 20 people own most of the property in Dublin, while his government has consistently failed to control the property crisis in the city."

"Dublin's obedient citizens have had enough! We refuse to have our quality of life destroyed by rent and mortgage costs. We demand free public space, where activist, artistic and social groups have the right to congregate, associate and live. We cannot rely on the state to provide these things so we are creating them ourselves. This is our city and we demand our own space."

For more information contact:
Cian O'Callaghan 086 286 6631

by Cheered up Mon Jul 14, 2003 01:24

Good stuff! More of the same needed by all of us concerned citizens. Nice to see people showing that things can be done. Any details on help needed?

by Karen Mon Jul 14, 2003 02:08

Working Bee this Wednesday!
'Disco Disco' is organising an open 'Working Bee' this Wednesday night at 7pm.
What does this mean? Basically we are asking people to come down with paint, brushes, saws, workbenches, hammers, refuse bags, dust masks, and everything else you think you would need for renovating a premises.

Anything at all you have to donate to the collective would be greatly appreciated - including your time.

It's going to be dirty work; so bring old clothes and prepare to roll up your sleeves! We're going to be cleaning up rubbish, painting walls, repairing doors, and a variety of other messy but fun activities.

The Working Bee will also be a place to meet and get to know the people involved with the space.

'Disco Disco' is being set up as a social centre/autonomous zone/community space for the people of Dublin (and beyond!).

We will be encouraging different groups to utilise the space. Community organisations, activists, charities, collectives, music bands etc are all welcome to hold meetings and get togethers there.

If you can make it down there in the meantime to help out then please do.

'Disco Disco' is located at 41 Parnell Square West.

Hope to see you on Wednesday night!

by Josef Mon Jul 14, 2003 02:20

Loos like a great place to shoot up.

by NO DRUGS Mon Jul 14, 2003 02:45

There wont be a needle exchange at Disco Disco.

The only things being exchanged will be experiences, information, debate, dialogue, humour, life!

Come down and help us out.

by Fire this time Mon Jul 14, 2003 02:51

& congrats to all involved!

out of curiosity, the last pic... what does the sign read?

by Josef Mon Jul 14, 2003 03:19

but my 'face doesn't fit'. You know how it is.

by bernie bird Mon Jul 14, 2003 04:43 berniejbird at yahoo dot ie

Well done lads!
Were I in Dublin now I'd come along and help out, for sure...
Brings me back to the days of the Anarchist Teapot in Brighton...
Hey, as a suggestion, a good place to do an action would certainly be the shady "Landlords Association" on St. Stephens Green, if ye haven't thought of that yet...
Keep up the great work and I look forward to seeing future posts of success...
b

by Joe Sheehan - L4C, Gluaiseacht Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:44

Thank you all involved, the best of luck with the future and I look forward to seeing you all as soon as I can get to Dublin.
Lets hope this is the first of many!

LONG LIVE DISCO DISCO!!!!!!

by pat c Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:55

yeah, it was a well oiled operation. errr. i mean things went smoothly not that people were well oiled emph, err, enough on that.

the first garda was gas, he knew something was going on but wasnt sure what exactly was up. not realising that people were already inside, he stood in front of the door and told us that the "buses went from further up the square."

they are not begging, they are taking action to highlight the fact that buildings are allowed remain empty for years whilst there is a housing crisis.

they are entitled to seek and deserve practical support.

by pat c Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:56

it was more or else as below:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Happy is the citizen who obeys"
- Latin inscription on Dublin Corporation Logo
AUTONOMOUS SPACE OPENED IN PROTEST AT HOUSING CRISIS
At 3 pm activists from Autonomous Community Space opened up a derelict building on 41 Parnell Square (West) that has been unused and derelict for the last 11 years. The activists are aiming to highlight a number of issues including spiralling rents and the lack of affordable housing. The autonomous space is in the heart of the Taoiseach's constituency of Dublin Central.

Issuing a statement from Autonomous Space Community Cian O'Callaghan, press spokesperson said:
"There are a ridiculous number of empty buildings in Dublin. Boarded up, unused, waiting for the highest price so they can be turned into cramped apartments that no one can afford. Meanwhile people sleep on the streets, students work 30 hours on top of college so they can pay exorbitant suburban rents, and families are forced into unsuitable rented accommodation because they have no hope of affording their own home."

"Every one of us deserves our own space. Somewhere without the burden of ever escalating rent, unsafe conditions, and the threat of yet again having to move on when the money runs out. At the same time perfectly habitable buildings lie idle all over the city. Dublin's obedient citizens are working longer and longer to pay rent. Even our Taoiseach has admitted that the same 20 people own most of the property in Dublin, while his government has consistently failed to control the property crisis in the city."

"Dublin's obedient citizens have had enough! We refuse to have our quality of life destroyed by rent and mortgage costs. We demand free public space, where activist, artistic and social groups have the right to congregate, associate and live. We cannot rely on the state to provide these things so we are creating them ourselves. This is our city and we demand our own space."

For more information contact:
Cian O'Callaghan 086 286 6631

related link: http://1978.org/discodisco

by ec Mon Jul 14, 2003 12:22

Obedient Citizens make a happy city

by conor (wsm personal capacity) Mon Jul 14, 2003 12:27

Just to add my good wishes - I was up for a while on Sunday and was very very impressed by how well organised people are - I'll be there on Weds and hope lots more will show up

It might be worth while making a list of what might be required to get the place ship shape

just my own tuppance worth - besides anyone who could help getting water and electricty going the most urgent need seemed to be for torches and mattresses -

Conor

by Deirdre Clancy - Catholic Worker Mon Jul 14, 2003 13:17

Thanks so much all of you. I've been waiting for collective action on this for a long time through years of disturbing encounters with the hands fumbling in greasy tills that consist of the majority of Dublin landlords. I hope this movement grows and grows.

by long hair reprobate and known good for nothing revolutionary - wannabe gardener of delights. Mon Jul 14, 2003 13:36

thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou
gurbh maith agaibh gurbh maith agaibh gurbh maith agaibh gurbh maith agaibh gurbh maith agaibh
merci beaucoup merci beaucoup merci beaucoup merci beaucoup merci beaucoup danke schön danke schön danke schön danke schön danke schön muchos gracías muchos gracías muchos gracías muchos gracías moltes gracías moltes gracías moltes gracías moltes gracías aren't ye lovely aren't ye lovely aren't ye lovely aren't ye lovely.

couldn't this lovely building on historic Parnell/Rutland SQ be used to give the céad mile faílte to
Deireadh Fomhair?

by Deireadh Fómhair - Dublin anti WEF site Mon Jul 14, 2003 13:40 antiwef at dublin dot com

heyas

we havent updated the site in a while - this week loads more stuff will be put up, so stay tuned

the DF four

by King Mob Mon Jul 14, 2003 14:00

The Garden of Delight was a bookstore/coffee shop first and a space second (a space which kicked a pagan group from meeting there because "religion is the opium of the masses") It had funding and a collective.

Just some questions. Who is organising this space? who is responsible? Who decides what it can be used for? and who decides who can stay? Is is a shelter? a Space? what?

by Durutti Mon Jul 14, 2003 14:11

This was a practical example of the Direct Action necessary to highlight the scandal of buildings being deliberately allowed to decay while people are sleeping on the street. As an Anarchist I will samn the Labour Party for doing little to address the housing crisis when they were in office.

But Labour Youth members were involved in yesterdays Direct Action, this should be recognised.

by Red 1913 - SY/SP (Personal Capacity) Mon Jul 14, 2003 14:38

This type of action carried out by people who have no links with either the Working Class or the Homeless achieves nothing. Except publicity for the few "heroes and heroines involved".

A real campaign has to built which includes the Unions, Socialist groups, the INOU, FocusPoint, Community activists and other organisations of the homeless. Setting up a Party Zone will only turn off serious activists and will attract junkie/wino elements.

Smashing down a door may make you feel good, for a while. Smashing down the System takes longer but everybody gains permanently. The trouble is it takes a long hard slog.

Labour Youth are only interested in the photo opportunities they get from these kind of stunts.

by lish Mon Jul 14, 2003 14:39

the grafitti on the wall was already there. we're cleaning up & making the place beautiful.( tho the symbol fits).

by Chekov Mon Jul 14, 2003 14:40

Seanin: autonomous means: "a body that operates without external control". Unless the donations of food / money are exchanged for control of the community, then they have no effect on the "autonomy" of the community. And you call us morons!

Josef: ugly people are welcome too!

by Paul Kinsella - Various Mon Jul 14, 2003 14:56 paulkinsella53 at yahoo dot com 53 Lorcan Grove, Santry, Dublin 9, Eire 087 - 9748511

A line of drelict, but perfectly good buildings at the junction of the Five Lamps/North Strand/Amiens Street/Summerhill (About 5 or 6 in total - including a video shop, chipper and pub among others)) are being allowed to fall into rack and ruin, so that no doubt they will be demolished and rebuilt as luxury apartments for investors while the local people are yet again being priced out of their own neighbourhood where they have lived for generations.

by rhona Mon Jul 14, 2003 15:01

the autonomous zone wasn't set up to tackle homelessness or drug misuse - there was never any suggestion that it was. there will be people living there, and we hope to run an info café, library, rehearsal space, meeting space etc. a photo opportunity for labour youth it certainly was not. quit complaining and go down and help out.

by rhona Mon Jul 14, 2003 15:08

and to ec -
i always thought the motto translated as 'obedient citizens make a happy city' too. i rang the corpo press office to check it out and the nice lady told me their official translation was 'happy is the citizen who obeys'.
but like, either way...

by iosaf Mon Jul 14, 2003 15:09

is approached from the centre of Dublin by walking up O'connell st. At the beginiing of the square you will see the Parnell monument erected to the memory of the leader of the Irish Home Rule party.
it reads....
"we shall never place the ·_ne plus ultra_· on the march of nationhood."

Parnell's dream of Irish Home Rule never happened the country was partitioned between the majority catholic south and presbytarian north.
Parnell (himself an episcopalian protestant) lost his career in a scandal relating to his extra-marital sexlife. The square named after him, previously had been Rutland Sq, and the as such is still honoured by the Orange Order Lodge as their original home. It is one of the curiousities of Irish history that it be so.

A you enter the square you will see the Rutland Maternity Hospital.

30% of new births in Dublin are at this hospital.

As you walk around the square you will see the garen of remembrance. A % of Irish deaths are remembered there.

What does the _·NE PLUS ULTRA·_ of Irish nationhood mean today? it is 81 years since partition, since the Orange left our country and left us that square renamed.

I suggest the _·NE PLUS ULTRA·_ of today
means that 100% of the children born in Ireland enjoy the rights of all Irish citizens.
That _no_ child be deported because of the citizenship problems of their parents.

I suggest the _·NE PLUS ULTRA·_ of today
will fight for homes for all.
as an inalienable right.
if not, then why does that monument remain?

c/f immigrants march to the Dail
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60283

by iosaf Mon Jul 14, 2003 15:12

you born in Ireland? you Irish.
you live in Ireland? you Irish.
you die in Ireland? you Irish.

papers for all.
houses for all.
then we'll work on the food, water and medicine for all.

by - Mon Jul 14, 2003 15:13

and be Irish.

by King Mob Mon Jul 14, 2003 15:22

I'd really like to know how this is going to work those who volunteer time, how will the coffee shop work? Problems with the health board. Management of money etc...

Who actually is running this? Spare me the automous collective crap, who are the people who are going to do the graft and do the work, and unblock the toilet.

And red SY fucking tit, you'd piss yourself if you found yourself on the couch beside a genuine homeless person. You can talk all you want about building a broad network, but thats all it is talk. Get off your arse and do it like this people are, or shut the fuck up.

by Chekov Mon Jul 14, 2003 15:22

I still amn't sure whether the comment by Red 1913 is a satirical parody of the crude workerism of the SP, but the more I read it, the more I suspect that this is a genuine post.

You think that opening up this derelict building as a community centre is a 'waste of space', do you? It was much better when it was derelict wasn't it?

As for "this type of action carried out by people with no links to the working class or homeless" - what the hell are you talking about. At least some of the people involved WERE homeless and pretty much everybody was working class. Ignoring in advance the obvious slurs (you're all middle class hippies) that will be thrown, what closer links could you have? Actually what I suspect you mean is that, in SP speak, 'working class' means the upper echolons of the union bureaucracy. We should have desisted from this adventurism and concentrated instead on lobbying Beggs to put pressure on Bertie to do something, I suppose.

Then you accuse us of seeking publicity for the few heroines and heroes involved. Thanks for the vote of confidence. But, as this action did not involve any party or recruiting organisation, I really don't see what the point of getting publicity for us, 'a bunch of squatters', would be.

The best bit is where you say: "setting up a Party Zone will only turn off serious activists and will attract junkie/wino elements." Who needs tabloid journalists when you have the SP? How did you discover that it was going to be a party zone? As far as I know, none of the people involved are aware of this. They have obviously been duped by themselves into thinking that this will be a community centre which will have no drink or drugs around. Obviously the SP, like the Herald, know much more about the reality of the situation than the people involved. As for the space turning off serious activists. Presumably you don't think that the people who carefully planned and organised this daring action involving some 60 people aren't serious. What makes you serious? Selling papers?

So "a real campaign has to be built..."? What is a real campaign and why does it automatically preclude doing things? What have the SP done about it (and I don't mean high-falutin rhetoric)? To me a real campaign is one that does something, not one which talks a lot of crap about social problems and then says 'vote for me'. Oh and a real campaign needs the socialist parties like it needs fine gael.

Allowing your brain to be washed by the glorious leadership may feel good for a while. You have all the answers. If anarchists do something, you can just repeat the mantra "elitists, no links to working class, we need a real mass movement". You are actually criticising a group of people reclaiming an unused building, and what are you doing - building a cult.

by ec Mon Jul 14, 2003 15:53

For those unfamiliar with the area of the city in which the Social Centre is based - Sinn Fein Office Bookshop is long established nearby -

Parnell Street, divided by the Parnell Monument referred to by iosaf is a historic and futuristic street. It is a truly multicultural street - first in Ireland. The 1916 rising was partially planned in a newsagents on the street. The next Irish President can be found popping in and out of bars and Retail Premises on the street. There are huge caverns under the ground.

Great cheap net access in Infinity.com - previously infinity ventures - Kola is a lovely guy and survived despite his business being subject to the most blatant and organised attempt to drive an African Business out of the city. Smashed up by gang with pool cues. A lady who worked in the shop gave interviews in the immediate aftermath to the national media. The name she gave 'Destiny Warrior'. Translated into Gaeilge and pluralised - Fianna Fail.

Other info for new residents : Bangkok Cafe - grrreat grub say hello to paddy and moe: Swimmies office just up the road: Welcome inn barman John for most info held by any brain in Ireland. Lucky Duffy for all your lotto needs.

by Joe Sheehan Mon Jul 14, 2003 15:58

Does anyone know is the "Disco Disco" the old national ballroom? There is something in Times today about it being scheduled for demolition to build an annex for the Hugh Lane Gallery.

Again congrats to all involved!!

by Red 1913 - SY Mon Jul 14, 2003 16:04

I heard there was a collection to buy booze for the inmates of the squat. Drink parties first item on the agenda. How many of them and their supporters were really homeless or working class? From what I heard it was a bunch of middle class punks, crusties and anarchists.

You lot will skateboard your way to Socialism.

Community Centre? Who are you kidding? Did you contact any local Community Groups to get their views on the action? No! With typical crusty anarchist arrogance you just parachuted in.

Here is a link which gives info on SP work about the Homeless -

http://www.socialistparty.net/pub/pages/voiceoct02.htm#evi

by Durutti Mon Jul 14, 2003 17:10

I suppose you are happy now that your Worker In Uniform chums have helped to illegally evict them?

by justin T Mon Jul 14, 2003 17:14

"autonomous zone" lol :-) seems more like a dirty smelly dump zone

by ec Mon Jul 14, 2003 17:27

This guy is indistinguishable in lingo from the right wing press level of critique of new social movements.

I don't believe a word of the 'drinking' stuff he comes up with.

Have he and his compadres sworn off the booze for their summer camp?

Methinks they have not.

Would he consider the sons and daughters of teachers as unworthy of being involved in political activity due to their 'middleclassness'?

Who else is unworthy in his book?

Do you have to look a certain way and come from a certain background to join the SP or be worthy of being taken seriously?

And Duritti - stick to this thread - I can feel the excitement this will unleash in you - Doesn't mean you can take upon yourself the right to go spamming -

IMC is an 'Autonomous Space' too and you have a habit of going round pissing in the corners of other people's rooms.

by having a good laugh Mon Jul 14, 2003 19:40

to believe that the above posting is from the SP. In reality I think you are just creating postings like these to set up your little attacks on the SP. "Virtual Reality" how are you!

by jc Mon Jul 14, 2003 19:40

the acs group took this action to highlight all those groups who do work tirelessly campaigning and lobbying for social issues, they make progress but the government does little to help

are we supposed to wait for everything we need from the government
we reopened the building to help these very groups we couldn't ask what peopl would think cos that would spoil the surprise

as for no connnections with homeless groups,
white mans guilt doens't mean you can't try and help

if i live in my parents home in the leafy suburbs do im ii not allowed to try and help out which such issues

by Chekov Mon Jul 14, 2003 20:07

That it is pretty consistent with the SP line on all things anarchist.

That it is posted by somebody using a known SP pseudonym.

That it contains links to SP material.

That nobody from the SP has disagreed with its stance.

That, in the absence of a denial, or alternative SP posting, the most obvious answer is to take it at face value.

Given all these facts, I'm guillible enough to believe that it is indeed from an SP member. What is your evidence to the contrary?

by ipsiphi Mon Jul 14, 2003 20:25

Lab 04 evicted in Madrid.
woof woiof woof.

by - - SP/SY Tue Jul 15, 2003 02:16

Are people sure that Red 1913 is for real? He would not be representative of the views of most members of SY.

I think it is good that people are taking action to highlight the issue of the housing crisis and the fact that property developers and speculators are allowed to sit on land while people need houses.

It is importatn however that people do understand the limitations of such actions (which I'm sure most people involved do). Ultimately we need to see action involving trade unions and workers if the housing crisis is to be solved.

by - - SY Tue Jul 15, 2003 02:38

It may come a surprise to you but there are not too many SP members that visit this site any more on a regular basis. I have only just seen the post by 'Red 1913' and have commented on it straight away.

My opinion and the opinion of nearly all (all if Red 1913 is not a member) of SY on this is that those involved in the squat's motivations are very commendable and they should be supported. It is good that these issues are being highlighted. The storming of the building by the cops is a disgrace and goes to show that the cops ultimately will always be on the side of the landlords.

by OK - SP Tue Jul 15, 2003 12:17

I just want to make it clear that 'Red 1913' is not speaking for the Socialist Party or Socialist Youth. I don't even know who he is- for all I know it could be some shit-stirrer.

I'm sure if anyone asked any SP member about this squat you will find that they would be supportive. Personally I think that actions like taking over a building like that is good. It's an action that highlights the housing problem, the complete lack of planning on the part of the Council, and the mad situation where there are derelict houses not being refurbished when there is a housing crisis.

Pay no attention to 'Red 1913' he's a crank that represents nothing.

by roisin - totally dis organised Tue Jul 15, 2003 14:03 roisinnig at yahoo dot com Garynagry, Kilnamona, Co.Clare 086 1043528

Brilliant, Go hiontach,Yipee. horrah well done to all for taking over the building. It's all good. please dont waste time bitchin to eachother.Dont be provoked If someone make s a negative comment dont feed the negativity by lowering yourself to their critical views lets keep the comments clean if possible. cant wait to get to the big smoke now and check out the place. Viva le revolution!!

by Mags Tue Jul 15, 2003 15:02

Answer to Query above.

No, the National Ballroom is on the North side of Parnell Square. It is located between the Hugh Lane Gallery and the Irish Writers Centre.

Incidentally half of the north side of the Square appears to be empty. From the junction of Granby Row to the Hugh Lane gallery there is the massive old Colaiste Mhuire. Interesting to find out who owns this now: Dept of Education?, Catholic Church? City Council? A huge and beautiful building is going to rack and ruin.

Then there is the National Ballroom itself. Opposite the main gates of the Garden of Rem is the old Ierne Ballroom, which was recently sold but is still vacant.

Also walk down O Connell street and look up. The ground floors of most buildings are occupied by retail with offices on the first floor. The remaining two storeys of many buildings are empty and derelict. The reason for this is that the amount of space required at ground floor level to provide for access to upper floors would detract from retail floor space of the shops. Sad, but true.

by Observor Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:56

Red 1913 seems to be a cause of embarassment to the SP, he swallows their line too well and regurgitates it in an offensive manner. S/Hes a member alright, remember Red 1913 posted the notice about the SY youth camp.

Hes just a biy more extreme than the others. Notice the workers /union line creeping in. I cant believe that even OK seriously thinks that the homeless situation is going to be solved by strike action and that a campaign can go nowgere without unions involved.

by OK - SP Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:11

In my last post I did not say anything about the Trade Unions!!

And by the way, in my opinion the housing crisis cannot be solved without the involvement of active and militant trade unions. The struggle to transofrm the Trade Unions is not just something people do to fill up their spare time- it's because the workers' movement has the power to struggle on the questions of housing, unemployment, poverty, education, health etc.

Again I will say that 'Red 1913' could be a shit stirrer. Just because some guy used that name to put up the agenda of the SY Festival, doesn't mean someone else can't use that name to stir it up on another thread.

by Observor Wed Jul 16, 2003 14:54

"Red 1913 Are you for real?!
by - - SP/SY Tuesday, Jul 15 2003, 1:16am
It is importatn however that people do understand the limitations of such actions (which I'm sure most people involved do). Ultimately we need to see action involving trade unions and workers if the housing crisis is to be solved. "

See?

As for Red 1913, how come you didnt disown him when the notice of the Camp was posted? We are not all as dumb as your average SY recruit y'know.

by OK - SP Wed Jul 16, 2003 17:44

No-one knows who 'Red 1913' is! You've no proof that s/he is a SY member, or that s/he is the same 'Red 1913' that put up the agenda for the Summer Festival.

And just because someone also mentions trade unions doesn't mean that they are in the same party as me!

At no point did I say the action of creating a squat is in conflict to the Trade Union movement. And I'll say again: I think that it was a good action to do- and should even be supported by the Trade Unions.

by Observor Wed Jul 16, 2003 18:43

If it wasnt the SP 'Red 1913', we would know about it by now. It has not been disowned by him/her.

There is no reason for suspecting that the person who mentioned TUs is not really in the SP. You never suggested he might be fake until I quoted him.

by Anonymous and will remain so Wed Jul 16, 2003 20:21

There is no facility for registering user names on this site. As a result anyone can post bogus postings under any name and claim any affiliation.

This thread deals with an important topic yet has once again ended up as a he said, she said series of comments. The original comments from "red 1913" were clearly bogus. Just because someone (who may or may not be a member of the SP) posted a notice about the SY Camp, does not mean that every other posting attributed to them is genuine. I could post a bogus message from "OK-SP" and then a bogus reply from "Chekov" and make both sound credible. I could use links etc., but it still would not make it real.

Just because a posting says what you want it to say, in order to facilitate your critical reply, does not make it genuine.

by Chekov Thu Jul 17, 2003 00:19

The working class have completely failed and are incapable of ending capitalist domination of the world. What we need to do is forget all this talk of the working class and put our trust in the middle class intellegensia, they know what the story is. As well as these peole we shoudl go out there and start taking action OURSELVES and forget about trying to mobilise any 'classes', as long as you do your piece to oppose capitalism and all things bad that is all that matters. Everyone else will have to wrestle with their own consciences.

by Some random 'SP' member Thu Jul 17, 2003 00:22

Shut up you anarchist middle class wasters. What we need is a workers army that will come and crush these pesky middle class kids. I have no problem with suppression of democratic rights as long as it is the workers government that is doing it!

by indy ranger Thu Jul 17, 2003 00:24

The last two postings are NOT GENUINE. I hope you could see that. I put them up to highlight how easy it can be to put up ahit stirring material on this site.

Remember indyheads, use large pinches of salt when reading this site.

by Observor Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:26

Look, if it wasnt the SP Red 1913 that put up the comments, then he would have dissociated himself from them by now. Its worth noting that Red 1913 has attacked Labour on two other threads relating to the Occupation. These, more cogent pieces, have not been disowned either by the SP or the infamous Red 1913.

by Curious Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:19

Red 1913 is presently attacking Labour over the occupatiob at: http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60430&results_offset=20

by - Thu Jul 17, 2003 16:50

What's wrong with having a go at the Labour Party?

It would be wrong to have a go a an individual member of the LP who is involved in commendable actions but this does not make the party immune from critisism.

Remember it is the Labour Party that recieves massive donations off property developers and like the politicians of the other establishment parties where up to their necks in corruption around the rezoning issue over the past 20 years.

If they were in any way genuine about the housing issue they would mobilise their members in the unions as well as putting forward a programme that nationalised the building industry and confiscate the property of speculators. Of course they will never do this because they are a capitalist party. All they will engage in is phrasemongering and speechifying about the horrible speculators and will cry on about how young people cant get decent affordable housing but that is all they will do, it might get votes but it wont solve the problem.

by Spitfire Mk III Thu Jul 17, 2003 17:33

Red 1913 is dismising DISCO DISCO as a Labour PR stunt.

This absurd claim is made on the basis that 'writer' has posted an article which mentions both DISCO DISCO and Labour's response to the recent government 'Quarterly Housing Bulletin' & the fact that the current press contact for ACS (Autonomous Community Spaces) is a member of the Labour party.

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60399

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60423

ACS is independant of any political party.
DISCO DISCO may be gone but ACS lives on to fight another day!

by - Fri Jul 18, 2003 02:20

I haven't read all the posts by 'red 1913' but if he is having a go at Disco Disco and not raising legitimate criticisms of the LP than he does not represent the views of SY

by ? Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:29

It seems the SP are no longer willing to identify themselves on indy.

by Clare Fri Jul 18, 2003 17:57

A post above claims that Labour was in receipt of huge donations from property developers and was up to its neck in corruption from dodgy land rezoning.

In fact the Labour Party, Green Party, Democratic Left, Workers Party and Socialist Party have a long record of opposing dodgy land rezonings and refusing donations from property developers.

A look at the voting records of councils around the country support this view. In particular the kind of dodgy dealings that Liam Lawlor consistently proposed were opposed by the parties mentioned above.

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