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 Friday May 31, 2002 00:59 by Jan
 Some tips for the uneducated How To Score Points Whilst Avoiding Debate Central to point scoring is the ability to disguise point scoring by giving the impression of genuine debate. Audience members can be alienated by undisguised attacks, so all point scoring needs to be disguised. To disguise point scoring, comments need to seem to be logical, and to follow from what was said before. For the Israel activist, it is important to be aware of the subtly different meanings that well chosen words give. Call 'demonstrations' "riots", many Palestinian political organizations "terror organizations", and so on. World Union of Jewish Students Influencing Public Opinion The first aim of Israel advocacy is to influence public opinion. Public opinion is very important to Israel, and Jewish communities around the world. Firstly, in the field of international relations, foreign policies are heavily influenced by politicians' perceived electoral interests. If politicians detect public support for Israel, they will be likely to support Israel themselves. Secondly, Israel benefits from public support economically - in terms of willingness to visit Israel and buy Israeli goods. Influencing Public Leaders The second aim of Israel advocacy is to influence public leaders. It is possible for citizens to influence public officials and leaders directly. Politicians respond to public pressure. If politicians receive dozens of letters calling upon them to support Israel, they will be more likely to do so. Israel benefits from political support abroad, because it ensures a more sympathetic response to Israeli policies. Influencing the Leaders and Opinion Formers of the Future Campuses are the breeding ground for the next generation of politicians and opinion formers. For this reason, the third aim of student Israel advocacy is to influence campus leaders. Student union leaders might end up as government ministers, student journalists might end up as national newspaper editors. Because people often form and refine many of their political ideas at university, it is important for the long run security of Israel to try to influence student leaders and journalists to understand Israel and to be favourable towards her. In the years to come, Jewish communities will be glad this has been done.
There are two main approaches to Israel advocacy that allow Jewish students to achieve the aims outlined above. These approaches apply to everything Israel activists are trying to achieve in their advocacy for Israel. These approaches can be called "neutralising negativity" and "pushing positivity". "Israel is not bad because…." "This action was justified because…" This often involves arguing over sequences of events, attempting to reframe debates to focus on different issues, and placing events in a wider context, so that the difficulty of Israel's situation is understood in a more positive light. For more on this point see Communication Styles: Point Scoring and Genuine Debate Neutralising Negativity is usually reactive and responsive. Pushing Positivity attempts to demonstrate the good things about Israel's case. The aim to is make people see Israel in a good light and have sympathy with her. "Israel is a democracy" "Israel wants peace" This often involves setting the agenda, focusing on some of the more positive features of Israel, and taking the lead in attacking the Palestinian leadership in an effort to allow people to view Israel favourably in comparison. For more on this point see Being Proactive and Promoting Israel
Much of Israel advocacy concerns being reactive and defending Israel against unfair accusations. However it is important that Israel activists are proactive too. Proactivity means taking the initiative and setting the agenda. It means being on the "attack", trying to create positive impressions of Israel. Audiences who have a favourable general impression of Israel are likely to respond favourably when specific issues arise. It is a mistake to only try to promote Israel when she is being strongly criticised in the press.
Agenda Setting The person who sets the agenda will usually win the debate. Reactivity forces Israel activists to be constantly on the defensive ("no, Israel is not all that bad"). However by setting the agenda Israel activists get to determine what to talk about, and can therefore discuss the things they feel help promote the pro-Israel message. Being proactive keeps the right issues in the public eye, and in the way Israel activists want them to be seen. It is much easier to get Palestinian activists defending Arafat against charges of being a corrupt terrorist than it is to explain to disinterested students that Ariel Sharon didn't kill anybody at Sabra and Chatilla (which of course he didn't). It is much easier to feed students falafel at a party than to explain why Zionism isn't racism to a student who doesn't even know what national self-determination is. For more on this point see "How to score points while avoiding debate" in Communication Styles: Point Scoring and Genuine Debate
Uncritical audiences believe something if they hear it first and hear it often. People tend to believe the first thing they hear about a certain issue, and filter subsequent information they hear based on their current beliefs. Once people believe something, it is hard to convince them that they were wrong in the first place.
There are two major approaches to communication to use during Israel advocacy. These two approaches are used in different situations, and are designed to achieve very different things. These two approaches - 'point scoring' and 'genuine debate' - require different techniques, and the Israel activist must know how to use each technique at the correct time. Point Scoring Point scoring is a method of communication that prioritises making certain points favourable to the speaker, and attacking opponents of the speaker by trying to undermine their positions. Point scoring communication ought to give the appearance of rational debate, whilst avoiding genuine discussion. The aim of the Israel activist point scorer is to try to make as many comments that are positive about Israel as possible, whilst attacking certain Palestinian positions, and attempting to cultivate a dignified appearance. Point scoring works because most audience members fail to analyse what they hear. Rather, they register only a key few points, and form a vague impression of whose 'argument' was stronger.
Central to point scoring is the ability to disguise point scoring by giving the impression of genuine debate. Audience members can be alienated by undisguised attacks, so all point scoring needs to be disguised. To disguise point scoring, comments need to seem to be logical, and to follow from what was said before.
Point scoring needs to be focused. Because the people listening to 'point scoring' are only paying partial attention, only two or three points have a chance of 'sticking'. For this reason, focus point scoring on a few points supporting Israel, and a few points pointing out weaknesses in Palestinian positions. These points should be made again and again, in as many forums as possible. If people hear something often enough they come to believe it. Attempts to make too many different points will result in the audience remembering nothing.
Where an act might have been motivated by Antisemitism, but this is unclear, it is often worth expressing some form of disapproval, but refraining from levelling public charges of Antisemitism. Depending upon the local situation, it is often worth expressing personal upset, saying that one was "hurt, as a Jew" by the controversial act.
Propaganda is used by those who want to communicate in ways that engage the emotions, and downplay rationality, in an attempt to promote a certain message. To effectively present Israel to the public, and to counter anti-Israel messages, it is necessary to understand propaganda devices. This article applies a list of seven propaganda devices to the Israeli situation, and by doing so allows an understanding of some of the ways in which public opinion is fought for in the International arena. Name Calling Through the careful choice of words, the name calling technique links a person or an idea to a negative symbol. Creating negative connotations by name calling is done to try and get the audience to reject a person or idea on the basis of negative associations, without allowing a real examination of that person or idea. The most obvious example is name calling - "they are a neo-Nazi group" tends to sound pretty negative to most people. More subtly, name calling works by selecting words with subtle negative meanings for some listeners. For example, describing demonstrators as "youths" creates a different impression from calling them "children". For the Israel activist, it is important to be aware of the subtly different meanings that well chosen words give. Name calling is hard to counter. Don't allow opponents the opportunity to engage in point scoring. Glittering Generality Simply put, the glittering generality is name calling in reverse. Instead of trying to attach negative meanings to ideas or people, glittering generalities use positive phrases, which the audience are attached to, in order to lend a positive image to things. Words such as 'freedom', 'civilization', 'motherhood', 'liberty', 'equality', 'science', and 'democracy' have these positive associations for most people. These words mean different things to different people, but are used to gain the approval of an audience, even when they aren't used in their standard ways. Consider the use of the term 'freedom fighter', which is supposed to gain approval for terrorism by using the word 'freedom'. Or, consider why it is so beneficial to bring home the point that Israel is a democracy. Enemies of Israel will be keen to cast doubt on Israeli claims to be democratic, to guarantee freedom for all, and so on. In place of these 'glittering generalities' favourable to Israel, they will associate Palestinian behaviour, including terrorism, with terms like 'anti-colonialist' and 'freedom'.
Transfer involves taking some of the prestige and authority of one concept and applying it to another. Jewish student groups in the Diaspora can use the flag of their own country side by side with the Israeli flag, where appropriate, to lend support to Israel. In a sports-loving country (such as Australia), students can make people aware of famous Israeli sportsmen and sportswomen, in order to transfer positive feelings (about a football team) to Israel.
Testimonial means enlisting the support of somebody admired or famous to endorse an ideal or campaign. Testimonial can be used reasonably - it makes sense for a footballer to endorse football boots - or manipulated, such as when a footballer is used to support a political campaign they have only a limited understanding of. Whilst everybody is entitled to an opinion, testimonial can lend weight to an argument that it doesn't deserve: if U2's Bono condemned Israel for something that it didn't do, thousands would believe him, even though he was wrong. Obviously some celebrities are more useful than others. Students are probably a little too sophisticated to be affected by Britney's opinion on Israel, but those associated with intelligence like professors, actors, radio hosts, sports managers and so on can be asked to offer testimonial. A celebrity doesn't have to fully support Israel to be useful. Quotes can work as testimonial, even when they might be old or out of context.
The plain folks technique attempts to convince the listener that the speaker is a 'regular guy', who is trust-worthy because they are just like 'you or me'. Often politicians present themselves as being from outside the standard 'political cliques' and above political bickering, and then call for tax cuts to help the 'regular guy'. More often than not these politicians are multi-millionaires financed by large corporations, but the plain folks technique allows them to obscure that fact by presenting their 'common' characteristics.
Care must be taken when adopting populist positions. There are some ethical boundaries that ought not to be crossed - for example tapping in to general anti-Arab feeling, or Islamaphobia. Remember that Israel can be supported without resorting to mass generalizations or racism. === [ WUJS WOULD NEVER ADVOCATE ' tapping in to general anti-Arab feeling, or Islamaphobia ' would they????? That's why they say ' Call 'demonstrations' "riots", many Palestinian political organizations "terror organizations", and so on.' in the NAME CALLING section above! 'Remember that Israel can be supported without resorting to mass generalizations or racism.' Based on this how can any Zionist student club affiliated to WUJS be justly affiliated to a student organization on any campus around the world?? This is a racist HATE GROUP. ] === Fear When a speaker warns that the consequences of ignoring his message is likely to be war, conflict, personal suffering, and so forth, they are manipulating fear to advance their message. Listeners have deep-seated fears of violence and disorder, which can be tapped into by creating false dichotomies - 'either listen to me, or these terrible things will happen'. Listeners are too preoccupied by the threat of terrible things to think critically about the speaker's message. Fear is easily manipulated in a climate that is already steeped in fear by the threat of global terror. Fear can be successfully utilized by pointing out the consequences of terror.
Most people, when in doubt, are happy to do what other people are doing. This is the bandwagon effect. People are happy to be part of the crowd, and subtle manipulators can play on this desire by emphasizing the large size of their support. Although it is reasonable that people are given a chance to find out how many other supporters a speaker or movement has, often it is possible to create the impression of extensive support - through gathering all supporters in one place, or through poorly conducted opinion polls - in an attempt to persuade people who are keen to follow the crowd. Israel activists can commission opinion polls amongst groups who favour Israel, and use these to give the impression that Israel is the 'team to support'. Demonstrations, and even photos that give the impression of large numbers can help to create the impression that Israel is even more popular than it is. PERSONAL POLITICS IN ISRAEL ADVOCACY There is an argument that Jews living in the Diaspora have no right to get involved in debates about Israeli policy, and ought instead to support Israel's every action. However, the fact remains that Israel activists are used by Israel for an important purpose, and this means that Jewish student activists around the world are involved, in some way, in the Israeli political process. RUNNING A CAMPAIGN Organized campaigns allow Jewish students to exert a huge influence on public opinion and the political process. RESEARCH Once a general idea of what the aim of a campaign is going to be has been obtained, and the organizational infrastructure for realizing the campaign is put together, one of the first things that needs to be done is research. Although campaigns generally aren't conducted like intellectual arguments or debates, they do need to be backed up by facts and expertise. Before a campaign is launched, start gathering information from trust-worthy sources. AUDIENCE It is important to define clearly who the audience is for a campaign. Different audiences need different approaches, and are accessible in different ways. The audience or audiences that are targeted in a campaign should be worked out by looking at the aims and objectives. For example, if a campaign is seeking to get a certain piece of legislation passed, the primary audience has to be politicians, because they have the most influence over this. Secondary audiences might include any group that can influence politicians, such as the general public or Jewish political organizations. The decision about who the primary audience for a campaign is determines what methods should be used to meet the campaign objectives. Once the audience is set, the methods can be worked out. There are, broadly speaking, two potential audiences for campaigns. The first is the public, including students and perhaps the wider community. The second audience is a more limited audience of public and corporate officials. These two audiences are reached in completely different ways. If a campaign aims to get Pepsi to refuse to join the Arab Boycott of Israel again, then the primary audience needs to be people working at Pepsi, and handing out leaflets at college is useful only so far as it creates pressure on Pepsi.
Student support for Israel is valuable in and of itself. Try to get student support, and the support of the general public, in the following ways: Give out leaflets. Remember to go off campus to get support from the general public. Often it is possible to work with schools, or near schools, to get support of children. [THE SUPPORT OF CHILDREN!!!!!!]
Before engaging in a campaign to influence a certain politician or company, it is first necessary to do a bit of research. There is nothing worse than organizing a boycott of a company when they didn't even do what you thought they did. Next, once you are sure that they really are as bad as you suspect, approaching them formally and ask them to change. Although in many situations there is little chance that there will be a big change in behavior just because you ask, a polite approach at the start of a campaign keeps things civil. Student support for certain issues can also create pressure on decision makers. Once student support has been obtained, work to demonstrate the strength of this support. If a campaign aims to get student support in order to show leaders that their supporters want them to take certain action, it is important to show people how strong this support is. Take photos of events, and send them to leaders, with short write-ups of what took place. Approaching Officials Directly Most democratic representatives, including student leaders, are accessible to voters and other interested parties. It is possible to write to, and to meet with, most leaders, in most countries. Follow the general guidelines for approaching officials when approaching them directly. Primarily, this means being polite, making it clear that you are approaching them as an individual, being factual, and being clear about what action they are expected to take. We have detailed information about approaching public officials as part of a campaign.
Encouraging support for Israel on campus, and limiting anti-Israel activity on campus relies heavily on the ability of Jewish student groups to form strong alliances with other groups on campus. Support can then be traded on key issues, ensuring that Jewish students' interests are met. PROCESS Mobilise Students to Get Involved on Campus Before a Jewish student group can consider forming alliances, it is necessary to mobilise students to build the strength of the group. As many Jewish students as possible need to be encouraged to get involved in campus life. Jewish students ought to attend student union meetings. As many Jewish students as possible ought to be encouraged to join clubs and societies that are active in campus politics. Jewish students should be mobilized to vote in every campus election, to stand for election as student representatives for any and every forum, and to write letters to campus newspapers.
Mobilisation of Jewish students is a question of creating a culture where involvement in campus activity is seen as the norm, and of persuading students individually to get involved on campus. This takes time, but is essential in the long run for defending Jewish students and Israel. Jewish students who are already involved on campus, but who might not be closely involved with Jewish student activities, ought to be approached and befriended in an effort to include them in Jewish student mobilization efforts. Try to explain the need for Jewish student solidarity, and encourage them to help other Jewish students as necessary. Support Active Students Once Jewish students are involved in campus activities, they need to be supported. It is important to check that people are coping in their positions, to deal with any difficulties that might arise, and to ensure that they are enjoying things at least enough to stay involved. It is important to stay in touch with Jewish activists, so that when it is necessary to mobilize Jewish students for some reason or other, contact is considered normal and doesn't come 'out of the blue'. Meetings or mailings for Jewish activists, or even a special party can ensure that they feel wanted, and remain happy to work for the good of Jewish students.
Jewish student involvement on campus needs to be recognized by mainstream campus groups. This is done by making Jewish student presence visible in a subtle way that other campus groups understand. For example, Jewish students can sit together, hold a visible 'caucus' meeting before a student council meeting, or if the situation on campus if comfortable, turn up at a meeting wearing 'Jewish' T-shirts. Concentrate on Personal Relationships Build personal relationships with campus leaders and opinion formers. This can be done in a variety of ways - extend invitations to key students to attend Jewish events, such as Friday night meals, speaker meetings, or parties. If you have the money, you could even sponsor a trip to Israel for student journalists or such like. Meet individually with campus leaders and befriend them. Listen to them; find out what they believe is important. Whenever a student leader does something that went well, consider dropping them a note to say 'well done'. Don't leave managing your relationships with campus leaders to chance. Be methodical. Make a target list of the key students that you will need as allies. If you want, even keep records of your conversations with them, and about them. Spread your net wide, and target students whom you believe are likely to become leaders on campus in the future.
The point of mobilising Jewish students to get involved on campus, and of befriending campus leaders, is to allow the forging of alliances with powerful groups on campus. If Jewish students work together as a strong electoral block, if Jewish representatives in clubs and societies are busy trying to strengthen a pro-Israel agenda on campus, and if Jewish leaders are friendly with the leaders of other campus groups, it ought to be possible to form strong alliances. Student leaders will recognise that Jewish support on key issues could be helpful. Where these same student leaders have no strong opposition to a 'Jewish agenda' - such as support for Israel, support for ethnic minorities, and such like - they will likely be willing to support these issues in return for support on other issues by Jewish students. Which groups to try to form alliances with obviously depends upon the situation on each individual campus. In general, alliances should be made with groups that are either natural allies or else neutral towards Israel and the Jews. For example, middle-of-the-road political groups, some moderate Christian groups, and ethnic minority groups where these aren't dominated by radical Moslems. The more powerful a group is on campus, the more useful an ally they will make. Take a long-term approach to alliances - it is often worth giving support to a group even when it doesn't give any immediate benefit, just to build reliance and obligation on their part.
Once an alliance is formed, and there is a general understanding that support will be exchanged on key issues, begin to exploit this relationship. Use the fact that Jewish students are highly active on campus to deliver support to allies on certain issues; in return for Jewish support, ensure that allies deliver votes and support on issues that are important to Jewish students. It is possible to be pretty open about trading support, but of course it is important to keep in mind university and student union regulations.
THE NEED TO PREPARE Even the best public speakers need to prepare. In fact, the best public speakers are good because they prepare. Especially in a particularly charged area, like hasbara (explaining Israel's positions to non-Israelis and non-Jews), it is important to prepare to speak, both in terms of content, and in terms of style. RESEARCH THE AUDIENCE A well-prepared speech given to the wrong audience is as bad as a terrible speech given to the right audience. It is vital to learn who the audience is going to be, and tailor speeches to them. There is a big difference between talking to a group of Christian Zionists and talking to a mixed group of Jewish and Moslem students. Adjusting to the audience means delivering a speech at the right level; telling the audience, roughly, what they want to hear; and allowing the audience to feel that you care about them. Before planning a speech, find out the following information about the audience (or expected audience) from the organizer of the event, or from people who are familiar with the setting: Numbers expected to attend This information will allow a speech to be written and delivered in the right way. Because there is such a big difference between speaking to a big hostile audience and a small friendly one… find out which you will be talking to, and prepare accordingly. When talking about Israel it is likely that the audience will consist of three main groups - allies, neutrals, and opponents. Opponents, where these are people who are deeply anti-Israel or anti-Zionist, are unlikely to have their minds changed in any sort of public venue. In a mixed audience, it is generally more important to motivate and reinforce allies, and persuade neutrals, than to answer the charges of opponents.
Hasbara is not about factual argument. However, it is still important to prepare strong arguments and points, even if they wouldn't really stand up to closer examination. Hasbara is not the same as an International Relations or philosophy essay. However, although hasbara is often more about the emotional than the factual, it is important to be prepared with facts and figures.
Hasbara speakers need to be familiar with the topics that they are going to be dealing with. It is important to read before preparing to talk about Israel - if you don't know what the Lebanon War was, you won't be able to say why Israel wasn't directly responsible for the Sabra and Shatilla massacres. Collect information about the subjects you are going to be talking about, take notes, and make sure you are generally familiar with the background to things. Use Inclusive Language Try to use language that allows your audience to identify with the pro-Israel cause. For example, instead of saying 'Palestinian terrorism is a danger to stability in the Middle East' use the more inclusive 'we all understand what a danger to Middle East stability Palestinian terrorism is…' PURPOSE OF SPEECH IN ONE LINE The first step in writing a speech is to work out, in one line, what the speech is intended to convey. This line should bring together all of the arguments and points that will be made in the speech. For example, the purpose of a speech given to a neutral but interested audience of students about Israel's attempts to make peace at Camp David (2000) might be 'To persuade the audience that Israel has made extensive attempts to make peace, and that these have failed has not primarily been Israel's fault'. This one line purpose will then drive the rest of the speech. Everything in the speech should be based on driving home the one simple message ('Israel has tried to make peace, and the fact it hasn't managed isn't Israel's fault') that the purpose contains. The message a speech gives should be agenda setting, and not a response to the arguments others bring. Once the purpose of the speech is clear, the rest is much easier to prepare. Working out the purpose should be done before too much work is done on writing the actual speech, in order to keep the speech sharp and the message simple. Remember that the purpose of a speech is dependent upon the audience. It is possible to convey a more complex message to a sophisticated audience. Where an audience will consist of many people who are opponents of Israel, remember that the purpose and message of a speech is better aimed at neutral listeners and allies.
Powerful speeches engage the emotions. Personal stories, or stories told from a human dimension, can often do this well. What better way to make a point about victims of terror than to tell a story about them? More powerful than telling a story about a child in hospital who might never walk again is telling a story about one's own visit to see that child in hospital, and how sad it was to see it. This, rightly or wrongly, gets the audience to tune in, listen, and take notice. It is much easier to listen to a story, especially an emotionally charged one, than to listen to abstract concepts. Stories make powerful points and get the audience's attention. (Just think - would Martin Luther King Jr's 'I have a dream' speech have been as powerful if he had said 'many people rightfully demand'?) Jokes can often liven up a presentation. Obviously remember that not everybody is good at delivering jokes. For those people who aren't, it is often better not to bother. A bad joke is definitely worse than no joke at all. Moreover, jokes aren't always suitable - don't tell jokes about terrorism, Palestinian children, or other sensitive subjects, unless (or even if) you are sure that the audience will be receptive. Finally, avoid making fun of the audience. Although it might get a laugh from some people, others are bound to be offended. PREPARE VISUAL AIDS AND MATERIALS Particularly in the field of hasbara it is important to use any possible avenue to get one's point across. Use overheads, slides, pictures, flyers, and handouts to reinforce the message conveyed in a speech. BODY LANGUAGE AND GESTURES Successful communication involves verbal and non-verbal parts. Effective speakers use body language and gestures to project the right image and make their speeches work better. Make eye contact with members of the audience. VOICE Vary one's voice to retain the interest of listeners. Vary the speed a speech is delivered at and introduce pauses. Try to feel emotion whilst talking to convey feeling with one's voice. Lower one's voice to draw the audience in, perhaps whilst telling a personal story, and then raise it again to make a point. QUESTIONS In an area like hasbara where it is very unlikely that the audience will be fully satisfied by a speech, it is inevitable that questions will be asked. These will generally divide into three types - genuine questions (somebody wants to know something, or the speakers opinion on something), supporting points, and hostile points. (For example "But don't you think that Israel is actually racist?" - which is more of a hostile point than a genuine question.) It is important to remember that questions should be anticipated and prepared for. Not all questions can be anticipated, but many can. Hasbara is about setting the agenda. If somebody uses a question to make a point, it doesn't need to be answered, only addressed. Always stay friendly and keep smiling, especially when being asked hostile questions. Body language is particularly important during confrontation, and neutral audience members will tend to side with the person who kept their cool the best.
REASONS TO WRITE TO POLITICIANS Politicians consider each letter they receive to be representative of 100s of voters' feelings on a subject. If a politician receives a handful of letters in support of Israel, they are likely to believe that their voters support Israel. Grassroots pressure won't get a politician to radically alter their views, but it might well give them the confidence to act on their pro-Israel feelings. Thanking a politician after they do something to help Israel will encourage them to continue in the same vein. Conversely, grassroots pressure on politicians who are generally hostile to Israel might persuade them that they will be punished by the electorate if they don't moderate their actions. HOW TO WRITE TO POLITICIANS Identify as a Concerned Citizen Politicians are quick to discount letters that they see as part of organised campaigns conducted by pressure groups. For this reason, letter writers should identify themselves as concerned citizens, and not as members of organisations.
Handing Out Leaflets. Unlikely as it may seem, it is possible to be good (or bad) at this seemingly simple task: Dress in a usual way. If dressing unusually, make sure it is as something with a friendly and light-hearted image. Better to dress up as a clown than a skeleton. [Finally...] Jewish students at Durban show how PR should be done 'Some of the contingent members did reassure their worried parents back home, disturbed by images of their sons and daughters handing out flowers to Palestinians, that it was just a public relations stunt.' [WELL ISN'T THAT A RELIEF!] www.wujs.org.il/activist/features/campaigns/hasbara.shtml |
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Comments (13 of 13)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13( However we're NOT interested in more criticisms of the site or editorial comments!! )
Indeed, obviously not!! Perish the thought that minds might be open to some constructive criticism and/or feedback. Down with that sort of thing!!
Just one question for you though. How is an ordinary user supposed to discuss editorial policy? When I attempt to discuss editorial policy on the editorial list, I don't get any response there to reasonable and polite queries. (eg when I queried why I was banned)
You might get a lot more respect around here - but of course you and your fellow Pro-Child-Murder Pro-Torture Zio-Nazi apologist friends always manage to slip in a few lies into every comment thread.
Personally I think the editorial teams are way too tolerant of you Zio-Nazis. You lot have no intention of sticking to the truth. Essentially you're all a bunch of lying shitbags
Why should anyone here have to tolerate people that lie all the time, or support Torture of children, support the murder of children, like you and your friends do?
It isn't just that though - it's the complete inability to be honest that you all display - you're all feckin psychopaths.
You are quick with your accusations of lying. Slower to back it up. Can you even instance ONE lie I have ever posted here on Indymedia? That's LIE as in demonstrably factually inaccurate statement rather than opinion I don't happen to agree with.
Off you go - you have previously demonstrated a basic ability to use a seach engine so it should be no bother to you to find my lies, eh? As a little incentive for you, I hereby promise to piss off and never post on indymedia.ie ever again, if you can find even one lie ever posted by me. Except you won't. Cos I haven't told any.
You see, unlike you, I fact check and double check everything I post here. I have to; if I didn't and I made even an inadvertent mistake, idiots like you would jump all over me saying "hah, see the lying zionist, etc, etc" (Actually, you do that anyway, but still..) And of course the censors would delete my post ìf there was even a whiff of factual inaccuracy about it. Mind you they can always find some spurious reason anyway, but that's another story.
@ the idiot who thinks Zionism is identical to nazism even though it's been demonstrated to him that it isn't
you've "demonstrated" absolutely nothing at all. Zionist similarity to and actual political links to Nazism have been amply documented on this site countless times. The fact that you still keep denying it is actual evidence that you are an actual liar. Every time you deny it you merely prove you're nothing but a blatant liar. Q.E.D.
" And of course the censors would delete my post ìf there was even a whiff of factual inaccuracy about it. Mind you they can always find some spurious reason anyway, but that's another story."
yeah, like your repeated support for a group of scumbags that have institutionalised the Torture of adults and children, and your support for that same group of psychopaths when they repeatedly deliberately murder of children?
Yeah, that would pretty much do it every time, IMO.
Your problem is that you cannot be honest. If you were everyone would clearly see you for the sick torture and murder loving psychopath that you are. But the fact remains that whenever you are simply asked to just even acknowledge that the Zio-Nazis torture adults and children, something which has been documented by both Israeli and international organisations, you can't even manage that much.
So it's clear from that alone that that simple basic level of honesty is not something you're even capable of
Zionism convicts itself. On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis:
“Zionism has no illusions about the difficulty of the Jewish condition, which consists above all in an abnormal occupational pattern and in the fault of an intellectual and moral posture not rooted in one’s own tradition. Zionism recognized decades ago that as a result of the assimilationist trend, symptoms of deterioration were bound to appear, which it seeks to overcome by carrying out its challenge to transform Jewish life completely.
“It is our opinion that an answer to the Jewish question truly satisfying to the national state can be brought about only with the collaboration of the Jewish movement that aims at a social, cultural and moral renewal of Jewry–indeed, that such a national renewal must first create the decisive social and spiritual premises for all solutions.
“Zionism believes that a rebirth of national life, such as is occurring in German life through adhesion to Christian and national values, must also take place in the Jewish national group. For the Jew, too, origin, religion, community of fate and group consciousness must be of decisive significance in the shaping of his life. ”
Clearly the Zionists are saying to the Nazis "We Zionists are just like you Nazis"
By 1936, the Post ran a news flash, “German Zionists Seek Recognition”:
“A bold demand that the German Zionist Federation be given recognition by the Government as the only instrument for the exclusive control of German Jewish life was made by the Executive of that body in a proclamation today. All German Jewish organizations, it was declared, should be dominated by the Zionist spirit.”
Zionist factions competed for the honour of allying to Hitler.
By 1940-41, the “Stern Gang,” among them Yitzhak Shamir, later Prime Minister of Israel, presented the Nazis with the “Fundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi) Concerning the Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe and the Participation of the NMO in the War on the Side of Germany.”
You will of course ignore or deny all of this because you are incapable of being honest about this subject
how the Zionist leadership cooperated with the Nazis is documented by historians, many of whom were Jewish and/or Israeli
See for example :
Yet you have not yet had the honesty to acknowledge any of that despite having many many opportunities to do so over the course of the last few years on this site.
You will as usual ignore or deny or try to justify this obvious collusion between the Zionists and the Nazis, Just as you will deny or ignore the documented torture of Palestinian Adults and children by the Zio-Nazi State of Israel
SO stop pretending to be honest - because you are clearly incapable of even the most basic level of honesty required to simply acknowledge, let alone denounce, the documented history of Zionist-Nazi collusion nor the documented Gov't sanctioned torture of adults and Children.
Only a sick psychopath would support the torturers of children - and here you are
Where do I start with you? First let's etablish a little reality. YOU claimed that Zionism was IDENTICAL to Nazism. I pointed out a litany of important significant differences. You have now retreated to claiming that Zionism is somewhat SIMILAR to nazism. Quite a lowering of the bar, eh? I have chosen NOT to deny your argumentative and selective claims that (some, a small minority) of Zionists had links with Nazism precisely because it is argumentative and tendentious. Yet you cite my imagined denial of this as "proof" that I lie. This is simply twisted and nonsensical non-logic.
You cite a Zionist document from July 1933. You DO know what was going on in Germany in`1933, right? Hitler's rise to absolute power. The Reichstag fire. Jews expelled from Civil Service and police employment. Two million Nazi SA thug stormtroopers unleashed with full Government approval to "settle scores" with the Jews. The 1st April "boycott" of Jewish businesses enforced by the SA. Hundreds of Jews murdered, thousands brutally beaten, kicked, publicly humiliated by head shavings and beard cutting for the amusement of the SA thugs. Thousands more imprisoned in Dachau where they were subjected to malnutrition, beatings, torture and death from disease and destroyed health.
Against this background, you BLAME the Jews for concluding that they had no future in Germany and trying, pathetically and grovelling, to engineer a way out of their nightmare via emigration to Palestine and the creation (as mandated by international law) of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. You think the Jews should be FAULTED for trying to couch their proposals for a Jewish state in terms the nazis might actually understand. Get real.
And if you're really interested in seeing who collaborated with the Nazis, then look to the Palestinian people. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, the spiritual leader of the Palestinians, had quite a record including:
- supporting pro German elements in Iraq and Iran
- fleeing to Berlin and meeting Hitler, Himmler and Mussolini
- (According to some sources) visiting Auschwitz
- writing his famous letter to Hitler admiring Germany's solution to its Jewish question and requesting help to implement similar methods in Palestine.
- broadcasting pro-Axis propaganda to the Arab world from Berlin
- recruiting a Muslim division of the Waffen SS
Meanwhile the Jewish brigade of the British Army was busy fighting against the Nazis; Moshe Dayan lost an eye and gained an eyepatch fighting against the pro-Nazi Vichy French forces in Syria. When it comes to the Nazis, I think we all know what side the Jews were on. We also know who the Palestinians were supporting. (For the sake of pedantic accuracy, exceptions on both sides allowed for.)
The Jews are only back in Palestine because Europeans tried to wipe them out.
The mind poison of religion means they fight against ,rather than compromise, with the locals.
Thanks - the thread-move gave me a good laugh.
The liar never stops lying
YOU claimed that Zionism was IDENTICAL to Nazism In it's CORE-Philosophy, that relating to the "purity of the race" "the superiority of the race" "the right to misappropriate land" it is IDENTICAL. It is it's core-philosophy, that of "Jewish exceptionalism" which gives it it's distinguishable character. In it's mixing of Right-wing themes with left-wing themes it is also closely resembles the nazis - they did exactly the same - that is why the called themselves "National Socialists" to distinguish themselves from "INTER-National Socialists" - they combined elements of actual Socialism, with Extreme Right-Wing to create something which they could fool working class people into supporting
I have demonstrated this repeatedly, using quotes form the Zionists themselves, that Zionist philosophy at it core is IDENTICAL to the core of NAZI philosophy - you have ignored every single instance of that, keeping silent because you could not dispute what I have demonstrated to be truth.
I pointed out a litany of important significant differences.
Not really - you like to Think you, did but you didn't really.
You have now retreated to claiming that Zionism is somewhat SIMILAR to nazism.
The core of Zionist philosophy is IDENTICAL to the core ideas of NAZI-ism. this has been demonstrated using the words of Zionists themselves time and time again
Rabbiting on about "the Grand Mufti" won't change a thing. It won't change the fact that using their own words it has been demonstrated time and time again that Zionists clearly saw themselves as a Jewish version of Nazism -
http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-to-m....html
You need to understand just one principle:
The case for Israel is made of four propositions that should always be presented in the correct escalating order.
That's it. Now you know everything that it took me a lifetime to learn. The rest is details; filling in the dotted lines.
You begin by saying how great Israel is. Israel want peace; Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East; the desert blooms; kibutz; Israelis invented antibiotics, the wheel, the E minor scale; thanks to the occupation Palestinians no longer live in caves; Israel liberates Arab women; Israel has the most moral army in the world, etc.
This will win over 50% of your listeners immediately. Don't worry about the factual content. This is about brand identity, not writing a PhD. Do you really think BP is 'beyond petroleum'?
Then you go into the second point: They suck. Here you talk about the legal system of Saudi Arabia, gay rights in Iran, slave trade in the Sudan, Mohammad Atta, the burqa, Palestinians dancing after 9/11, Arafat's facial hair, etc.
There is only one additional principle you need to understand here. It will separate you from the amateurs. You need to know your audience. If you've got a crowd already disposed to racist logic, go for it with everything you have. But if you get a liberal crowd, you need to sugar coat the racism a bit. Focus on women rights, human rights, religious tolerance, "clash of civilizations", terrorism, they teach their children to hate, etc. Deep down your audience WANTS to enjoy racism and feel superior. They just need the proper encouragement so they can keep their sophisticated self-image. Give them what they crave and they'll adore you! But be careful not to 'mix n match,' because it will cost you credibility.
When you're done, there will always be dead-enders insisting that abuse of gays in Iran does not justify ethnic cleansing in Palestine. Take a deep breath, and pull the doomsday weapon: You suck!
You're a Jew-hater, Arab-lover, anti-Semite, you're a pinko, a commie, a dreamer, a naive, a self-hater, you have issues, your mother worked for the Nazis, Prince Bandar buys you cookies, you forgot you were responsible for the holocaust, etc. The more the merrier. By the time you end this barrage, only a handful would be left standing. For mopping them up, you use the ultimate postmodern wisdom: Everything sucks.
War, genocide, racism, oppression are everywhere. From the Roma in Italy to the Native-Americans in the U.S., the weak are victimized. Why pick on Israel? It's the way of the world. Look! Right is only in question between equals in power; the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. Ethics, schmethics. Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Eat, drink! Carpe diem! The Palestinians would throw us into the sea if they could. Ha ha!
Trust me, that's as far as words can go. If you followed this method faithfully, you've done your work. You should leave the few who are still unconvinced to the forces of order.
Congratulations!
You are now ready to
LIE for Israel like a pro.
(Most of "Contrarian"s contributions to conversations on the Zio-Nazi state are neatly summarised in the article linked above)
What he hides is this: his repeated support for a group of scumbags that have institutionalised the Torture of adults and children, and his support for that same group of psychopaths when they repeatedly deliberately murder children
He repeatedly ignores the documented torture of Palestinian Adults and children by the Zio-Nazi State of Israel
He has had hundreds of opportunities to just acknowledge that the Zio-Nazi State tortures Palestinian Adults and children, yet the sad pathetic fool cannot even bring himself to acknowledge it.
Yet he loudly trumpets his "honesty" -
Someone that is incapable of even acknowledging documented FACTS cannot claim any level of honesty
See this thread for example - http://www.indymedia.ie/article/99915 - despite being presented with several opportunities to condemn this barbarous Jewish Israeli Zio-Nazi practice of Torture on not only adults but also children, astute observers will note that the Zio-Nazi-apologist scum Contrarian refuses to even acknowledge it's existence - not once in the whole thread did he even use the word "torture" preferring instead to avoid the issue completely, trying instead to hide the fact that this is what the Jewish Israeli Zio-Nazi scum do regularly to children, by merely referring euphemistically to "atrocities on both sides blah blah blah etc etc"
He's a Nazi through-and-through - and all he was asked to do was a very simple thing - simply acknowledge that the Israeli Zio-Nazis, regularly torture children and adults
One would think that if one were pretending to be interested in "reasoned Debate", as Zio-Nazi "Contrarian" has so-often claimed, that simply acknowledging such barbarity exists in Zio-Nazi-Land, would be a "no-brainer!" - not for Zio-Nazi "Contrarian" though.
He can't even manage the absolute minimum any non-psychopath should be able to muster . . . . ✡=卐
David Ben-Gurion is an impeccable source. He admits the obvious: Zionists are thieves.
"In our political argument abroad, we minimize Arab opposition to us. But let us not ignore the truth among ourselves. I insist on the truth, not out of respect for scientific but political realities."
Here he is openly acknowledging that it was the Zio-Nazis who were the aggressors:
"But the fighting is only one aspect of the conflict which is in its essence a political one. And politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves.
Militarily, it is we who are on the defensive who have the upper hand but in the political sphere they are superior. The land, the villages, the mountains, the roads are in their hands. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country, while we are still outside. They defend bases which are theirs, which is easier than conquering new bases"
And again:
"If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. . . . . . There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country.
Why should they accept that?"
"Why?" indeed
Even Ben Gurion, one of the main founder and the first Prime Minister of the Zio-Nazi State, admits that the Zio-Nazis stole the land and murdered the inhabitants when they couldn't scare them away.
In this respect the original Zio-Nazis were far preferable to latter day Zio-Nazis such as "Contrarian".
They were at least honest about their behaviour and intentions, certainly far more honest than latter-day Zio-Nazi apologists such as "Contrarian" have EVER managed to be.
Id prefer to deal with an honest racist Zio-Nazi any day ,over a duplicitous scumbag latter-day Zio-Nazi such as "Contrarian".
Zio-Nazi apologists are often fond of dismissing the cries of Zionism by attempting to confine them into the distant realms of history.
But the truth is that the crimes of Zionism are on-going events.
Their Ethnic Cleansing continues today. The illegal stealing of Palestinian land continues to this day.
Palestinian owners barred from Jordan Valley land while Illegal Jewish Racial-Supremacists/"Colonists" profit
- http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/palestini...91546
Haaretz 3 Jan -- Thai workers from the Israeli settlements are allowed across the border fence into the area, while the Palestinians are not; IDF spokesman also refuses to let Haaretz reporters tour the area --
[ Illegal Jewish Racial-Supremacists/"Colonists" ] in the Jordan Valley are farming more than 5,000 dunams (1,250 acres) of private Palestinian land located between the border fence and the actual border with Jordan.
The Racial-Supremacists/"Colonists" received the land from the World Zionist Organization in the 1980s. [By International Law it was not the WZO's to give]
The original owners, some of whom fled in 1967 and returned to the West Bank after the signing of the 1993 Oslo Accords and the 1994 peace treaty with Jordan, are still not allowed to access the land because of a military order preventing them from entering the border area.
[Illegal Jewish Racial-Supremacists/"Colonists"] attack Palestinian farmers near Nablus - http://english.wafa.ps/index.php?action=detail&id=21440
NABLUS (WAFA) 2 Jan – Extremist Jewish Racial-Supremacists/"Colonists" attacked Palestinian farmers, raided their agricultural land and burned tires around it in the village of Jaloud, southeast of Nablus, according to witnesses.
They said Extremist Jewish Racial-Supremacists/"Colonists" wreaked havoc in the village, attacked and prevented farmers from entering their agricultural land to harvest it. Female Extremist Jewish Racial-Supremacists/"Colonists" threw themselves in front of the agricultural trucks to prevent farmers from working.
Extremist Jewish Racial-Supremacists/"Colonists" have been targeting the village for two days now; they attacked on Tuesday a Palestinian in the village, hurling stones at him, causing him severe injuries.
The Zio-Nazi state security apparatus of course does nothing to prevent such behaviour, and in fact usually seems to encourage it by sending Soldiers to protect the Racist "Colonists" while they carry out their Ethnic Cleansing and Land-Stealing activities
Ongoing ethnic cleansing: Extremist Jewish Racial-Supremacists/"Colonists" to take over another Palestinian home - http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/9323/ongoing-ethni...take-
[video, photos] Jadaliyya ...Sheikh Jarrah is a residential neighborhood in the north of the Old City of Occupied East Jerusalem and home to 2,800 Palestinians. Due to its strategic location around the Old City, It has been the site of an aggressive ethnic cleansing campaign ...
More recently, a group of Jewish-Israeli Extremist Racial-Supremacists/"Colonists" young men took over part of the Al-Kurd family home. Nadia Al-Kurd explains that they release their dog on them frequently, which has terrified their children and caused injuries.
In response to international solidarity campaigns aimed at supporting the Al-Kurd family in reclaiming their confiscated property and remain in their home, the Extremist Jewish Racial-Supremacists/"Colonists" poured sewage over the solidarity encampment to drive them away. Today, the Al-Kurd continues to live in constant fear of settler violence and further control of their home.
Once again the Zio-Nazi state security apparatus, including it's pathetic and racist Court system, of course does nothing to prevent such behaviour, and in fact usually seems to encourage it by sending Soldiers to protect the Racist "Colonists" while they carry out their Ethnic Cleansing and Land-Stealing activities