which way to seville?

by Myles Thu May 30, 2002 16:45

red and red wrote:
"Just returned from Italy you'll be all glad to know the SWP are miniscule there and have absolutely no effect in the social forums. If they tried any silly tactics like they do here over there no one would even notice."

We all know that where the movement is strong the SWP has no impact. That's why they are doing everything they can to smash the movement here. WE MUST DEFEAT THEM!

by Oliver O'Hern Thu May 30, 2002 00:00

I am shocked and disappointed to discover that the brothers and sisters of anarchy in Espana have a working class content, they obviously need some advice from the WSM in order to combat that sort of thing. Even so I still believe that a joint SWP/GR/WSM mission would be fruitful and noteworthy. Just think of the social intercourse between Kieran Allen, Kevin Wingfield and the brothers and sisters of the WSM. They might ever form a unified organisation, suggested name of the new ankar, (remember the Khmer Rouge) could be the Higher Committee (the ankar). The SWP could infiltrate the guerillia gardening campaign by forming a rank and file movement within the campaign. Just think of all the possibilites a combined organisation could present. Hell, they could even form a rank and file group within Ryanair.

by Michael O'Leary - Ryanair - The low fares airline Wed May 29, 2002 23:32

Hey gurrier where did I denounce any Anarchists in either of my 2 earlier press releases. It's terrible that the Stalinists/SWPers/Dossing bums brigade have installed such paranoia amongst you Anarchists. Ps. I am well aware that the Spanish Anarchist movement is mostly comprised of Working Class people. That's actually a good thing because it means that we won't have any trouble from those spolit brat/middle class/SWP/hippy brigade types and again I repeat that it will be an honour and a privilege to carry Anarchists to Seville.

by red and red Wed May 29, 2002 23:05

Just returned from Italy you'll be all glad to know the SWP are miniscule there and have absolutely no effect in the social forums. If they tried any silly tactics like they do here over there no one would even notice. The social forums aren't all sweetness and light either BTW.

by Oliver O'Hern Wed May 29, 2002 22:05

What about a joint SWP/GR/WSM delegation to Seville. It could lay the groundwork for a really fresh, new and exciting unity in Irish politics.

by gurrier Wed May 29, 2002 17:29

You miserable SWP (or maybe SF?) muppet, anarchists have been building this anti-glob movement long before the cynical manipulators of the SWP and their ilk got involved. Is your denunciation of the anarchists for causing the violence already prepared? I'm surprised that you wankers haven't issued a denunciation of the anarchists in RTS for provoking the police violence yet.

Well if you're going to Spain, you might just have your eyes opened. The Spanish anarchist movement is big, based squarely in the working class and will probably mobilise tens of thousands of workers to go to Seville. Unfortunately you ignorant gits have your eyes sewn shut as soon as you sign the party card so you will probably write these people off as petit bourgeois students!

So stick your slanders, we are on the frontline of the battle against global capitalism and we don't need you f**king leaders to tell us what to do.

by tracey Wed May 29, 2002 14:11 bobssista at yahoo dot co dot uk

i want to get in touch with people going to seville but who don't want to go with gr. if your interested email me and we can travel together.

by Michael O'Leary - Ryanair - The low fares airline Wed May 29, 2002 13:26

Many thanks I need a Catheter I didn't realise that we had taken those horrid SWP/Commie/Socialist/Trotsky/Trade Union lazy layabout types to Brussels last December. I guarantee you hear and now that that will never, never, ever, ever happen again and you have my personal guarantee on that. As from this moment at 13:30 Wednesday, May 29TH 2002 I have given a personal order that the politicial affiliations of all passengers flying must be and will be very throughly and ruthlessly vetted and checked. The only Irish passengers from now who will be carried by Ryanair are Fianna Fail/Fine Gael/Labour Party/Progressive Democrat/Anarchist supporters. You have my personal guarantee on that. Again many thanks I need a Catheter.

by Myles Wed May 29, 2002 11:23

So the SWP ringleaders are in business with union bashing Ryanair airlines? That doesn't surpise me at all.

by Andrew Wed May 29, 2002 11:03

I don't think the EU summit in Dublin in 2004 will be unchallenged - even the last one saw minor protests. I took part in one described in the article Friday the 13th: Nightmare on Dame st which is at http://struggle.ws/mexico/img/mb2_nightmare.html The Garden off Delight "was raided by armed police after a banner declaring the EU to be the 4th Reich was hung on the roof during the European summit" http://struggle.ws/garden.html

We do need to start preparing and one that this is needed is a genuinely broad network/organistion that pulls together all the groups involved around globalisation.

Oh and people are going to Seville from Dublin and elsewhere in Ireland. if you actually check the thread you'll see the original question was answered with a number of ways of getting there.

by lost Wed May 29, 2002 10:51

The post asks about a non swp mobilisation for seville, turns out to be an argument about a swp front which doesn't exist.

Looks like the EU summit in 2004 in Dublin will be unchallenged.

Anyone actually going to Seville?

by I need a Catheter - damp damp damp Wed May 29, 2002 03:11

You mean the same non-union, anti-worker airline the SWP took to Brussels?

by Michael O'Leary - Ryanair - The low fares airline Wed May 29, 2002 02:54

Fly Ryanair the low fares airline. Especially those of you who are like me opposed to those Commie/Socialist/Trotsky/Trade Union lazy layabout types who are going to invade the lovely city of Seville and annoy the honest hard working Spanish Police next month. I appeal especially to you good Anarchists, in particular you Libertian Anarchists to join in me and my company's crusade to destroy once and for all those lefties in Seville next month. Make no mistake about it, next month in Seville is the moment of truth and the final showdown between those dossing left wing bums and the forces of Good and Order. So if you can prove that you're an Anarchist Ryanair will fly you Direct to and from Seville for Free and we will give you plenty of Free Food and Drink as well.

by Anonymous Coward Tue May 28, 2002 18:28

Bear in mind that transfers are not guaranteed on the budget airlines. This means that if your flight to London is delayed so that you miss the flight on to Malaga, you're fucked. I had a near miss flying Ryanair Dublin-Stanstead-Perpignan (and on to Barcelona). You are also hanging around London for an age.

Also bear in mind that because they don't recognise transfers, you have to pay the full taxes on each flight segment rather than the journey as a whole. This may not be so much from Belfast as its an internal flight, but from Dublin it was substantially more expensive than the flights themselves.

Iberia are quite cheap to Madrid at the moment, from 190 euro direct from Dublin.

by Me - SWP and I am proud Tue May 28, 2002 18:21

Stop bickering, join the movement.

by Anonymous Coward Tue May 28, 2002 18:17

You can get down to Seville from Madrid in 2h25 on the AVE. This is roughly the same time as the train from Malaga, but the AVE is of course much more expensive, especially with this new 'security tax'. (The bus to Seville is 6h from Madrid). You could well make back the difference however if the flight to Madrid is cheaper than the flight to Malaga, as is often the case.

by badman Tue May 28, 2002 17:39

They say
"We ask you to affiliate to the Irish ESF mobilisation ... contact joe ..."
Small step from an Irish ESF mobilisation to an ISF, I'd say.

Honestly, GR/SWP should really crawl back into their hole and stop doing everything they can to ruin the global anti-capitalist movement. If you want to launch some type of umbrella organisation, here is how you can do it so that it might have some chance of success:
1. Invite delegates from other organisations to a planning meeting (eg. SWP, SP, Gluaiseacht, RTS, RAR, AFA, WSM, interested NGO's etc)
2. Agree on a common definition of the role of the Social forum and a process for decision making between the delegates that is acceptable to all.
3. Issue a public statement advertising the constituent meeting.
4. All of the constituent bodies mobilise their members and supporters to attend the meeting.

The SWP, on the other hand do the following:
1. Decide to start the ISF at a meeting of the SWP leadership
2. Choose SWP people as spokespeople / coordinators of the ISF and give them instructions as to what outcome of the ISF meeting is desired.
3. issue a public statement advertising the ISF meeting
4. Denounce all of the other groups as sectarians when they inevitably refuse to get involved.
5. Try relentlessly to recruit the few new faces that show up to the meeting and eventually wind up the campaign when every non-SWP person has been recruited or driven away.

The party is the way, the truth and the light.

by Prizemaster Tue May 28, 2002 17:29

...win a FREE copy of the Socialist Worker!!!!

All you have to do is state how many times you received the following emails:

"GLOBALIZEMOS LAS RESISTENCIAS!"
and
"GR Forum on the Amazon".

If you got one copy of each...forget about it.
If you got two...try to sign some more petitions
If you got three...hey, you like mailing lists, but there are lots more of them that you can join.
If you got four...you're in the running
If you got more...come forward and you could win our special prize!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Whoever - Irish Social Forum Tue May 28, 2002 17:23

Hang on. They say ESF mobilisation, they don't mention any Irish Social Forum. I don't think that they want to set up one. It would mean joining a global network that the SWP central committee can't control, and they'd rather try to hijack IBEC then do that.

by Myles Tue May 28, 2002 17:13

No, that's the best way to smash a movement.
Who is behind the SWP? What's their real agenda?
We must respond to this sickening behaviour.

by Andrew Tue May 28, 2002 17:10

Here is the relevant section of the mail that is being circulated by GR, (as point 4, they also circulated the RTS meeting announcement as point 2 but deleted the line that read 'Stand up to the Police'!)

---

"INVITATION TO PARTICIPATE IN THE EUROPEAN SOCIAL FORUM

In January 2002 the World Social Forum was held in
Porto Alegre, Brazil....
Out of Porto Alegre came the call for a European
Social Forum to be held in Italy in November this
year. We are writing to you because we need your helpto create this people-before-profit world ...
We want to get as many people as humanly possible from Ireland to Florence. ...

We ask you to affiliate to the Irish ESF mobilisation, so that you can be part of the network helping to publicise the ESF, ...
For more information and resources, please contact Joe at 087 9032281 or at [email protected]
Yours in solidarity,
The Irish Mobilisation for the ESF"

---

So there you have it, the "Irish Mobilisation for the ESF" already exists so you can either join it or be a "nasty sectarian blah blah blah..." As I said not the best way of building a broad movement

by Rose Tue May 28, 2002 17:08

Here is a mathematical question: how many different fake organizations can a SWP member be in charge of?

by Myles Tue May 28, 2002 17:01

Thanks for the information Andrew.
Well I think that it is time to stand up to them.
Reclaim the Social Forum! We can't let them get away with everything.

by Myles Tue May 28, 2002 16:57

Everyone would be allowed to get involved in the Irish social forum. Though, differently from Globalise Resistance, it won't have a spokesperson appointed by the Socialist Workers Party. The Genoa Social Forum is the organization that organized the protest in Genoa. Do you think that we could go along with that? It's happening all over the world and it is up to us to make it happen here.

by Andrew Tue May 28, 2002 16:49

Actually GR/SWP have already claimed the 'Irish Social Forum' as their own, GR emails sent out to numerous lists today give the contact for the 'Irish Social Forum' as being a certain Joe Carolan! First time as farce, second time as tragedy I guess as this is not the best way of gettting if off the ground on any sort of broad basis!

The most sensible way to get to Seville is to find a couple of other people who want to go and book yourself a flight to Malaga (quite close to Seville) or failing that Madrid. The odds are that from three days before hand the Spanish state will refuse to allow demonstrators into the country so go as tourists rather then in a delegation. And get to Seville by the 20th as there is to be a general strike on the 20th which should bring transport to a halt. BTW it starts in the Basque country on the 19th.

If you arrive a few days early there is a massive march through the towns of Andulucia to Seville that you can join. In Seville itself lots of campsites are being set up including a Red and Black one by the CGT. I'll be posting more details on all this to the Ainriail list tomorrow.
http://struggle.ws/mailman/listinfo/ainriail

See you there!

GR are going via Malaga but even if you don't want to go with them for obvious reasons they have worked out a cheap way of doing this which is at the link below

by curious Tue May 28, 2002 16:38

So who would be allowed into this social forum of yours

by conor - ucdsocialistalternative Tue May 28, 2002 16:27 c_mc_gowan at hotmail dot com

the bikessoundgood,butmines nicked
imall forthe socialforum

by Myles Tue May 28, 2002 16:25

In London some folks are trying to set up the London Social Forum. We could try to do the same here in Ireland. Of course SWP/GR will try to hijack it, but if we organize in a democratic way we can deal with their antics.
Does anyone agree with this idea?

by publo Tue May 28, 2002 16:21

well i encourage people to cycle everywhere...