Guards have taken footage from RTE using search warrant

by 8den Thu May 23, 2002 13:34

TV 3 just contacted Indymedia they're also been served with a warrant to hand over their footage (pure Indymedia), The Gardaí will be arriving this afternoon for it.

by Joe Sheehan Thu May 23, 2002 13:54

Someone might know the answer to this, will the Gardai want all the footage they (RTE and TV3) hold or a copy of the footage they hold?
I do not want to seem paranoid but anyone else worried if the Gardai hold all the footage?

by Mary Thu May 23, 2002 15:01

I think people should really stop freaking out about the way the gardai are dealing with the aftermath of the protests. The Gardai are not fascists or underground criminals. I am perfectly sure that there is a logical reason for seizing the tapes, probably to be able to investigate better the situation and decide who really is at fault.
Although others would love to believe otherwise, we are not living in a dictatorship! R.T.E. can keep copies of the tapes (even if it is done so in secret...they would be pretty silly not to). Sorry to disappoint all of you who have wild conspiracy theories, but welcome to 2002, welcome to democracy, where the police are out in the open.

by Stephen Rigney Thu May 23, 2002 15:18

Any group which restricts the rights of people are fascists such as an Garda Siochana. As for "Welcome to 2002", I think "Welcome to 1984" would be a better phrase.

by Leon J Thu May 23, 2002 15:51

Mary you may be right that people shouldn't freak out about the Gardai getting copies of the Indymedia /RTE footage. I don't think that you can really blame people, however, for being scared of the police after they have been battered by them. You may think in a democracy the police are accountable but the Gardai kind of aren't (no convictions from complaints, no full time internal investigators etc.) I think that it is more likely that the Gardai want the tapes to organise a cover up/ whitewash than that they want them to try and identify those Gardai who ran amok 3 weeks ago. I don't think that an honest and full investigation is impossible but I think a cover up is alot more likely.

Stephen it isn't true to say that anyone who tries to interere with your rights is a fascist. You don't have the right to do whatever you want whenever you want.

Even in a society where the state has been destroyed where the sun always shines and where all men and women are siblings jugglers will still be parasites and the appropriate response to juggling will still and always be a sound battering.

by Mary Thu May 23, 2002 16:35

1984, now surely that's going a little too far. Fascist is a word people love to bandy about every time someone as much as uses strong language. Do you even know what you mean when you say Fascist?

Is every thief on the streets in Ireland a Fascist because they interfere with right of property?

You are being rather ridiculous.

Silly boy!

by Phuq Hedd Thu May 23, 2002 18:33

Given that the Gardai have been involved in the murder of a mentally-ill man at Abbeylara, the setting-up of alleged "republicans" in the northwest, have a history of illegal activity (the Heavy Gang), have engaged in wire-tapping all at the behest of whatever gombeen-man you and your ilk voted into office at the time, then I think suspicion is justified.

Now, when you add to that unenviable "professional" history the police riot of May 6th, the police/private security riot at the Burlington PPP protest last year and take into account the fact that many establishment figures (that a naive, credulous and authoritarian person like yourself might believe) have stated that they are concerned that the Gardai are acting upon orders from the highest political levels to disrupt protest activities in Ireland (look for Quinn's Dail statements) then I wonder where your complacency is coming from? Stupidity? Smugness? A lack of education? Only you know the answers, but until you have them, then stop telling other people to be cautious.

by Brian - Anarchist Federation Ireland Thu May 23, 2002 19:29

"I think people should really stop freaking out about the way the gardai are dealing with the aftermath of the protests"

Why, lets recap mary, they havent released any CCTV footage, they have started harrassing members of the public who made complaints against them, they are investigating the entire matter themselves, tell me again why people shouldnt be worried?

"The Gardai are not fascists or underground criminals"

Perhaps not, instead they are overground above the law pigheaded bureaucrats. Sounds very circa 1930's in my opinion.

"I am perfectly sure that there is a logical reason for seizing the tapes, probably to be able to investigate better the situation and decide who really is at fault. Although others would love to believe otherwise, we are not living in a dictatorship!"

We're living in a capitalist lie, capitalist lie or dictatorship, i cant really see the difference.

"R.T.E. can keep copies of the tapes (even if it is done so in secret...they would be pretty silly not to). Sorry to disappoint all of you who have wild conspiracy theories, but welcome to 2002, welcome to democracy, where the police are out in the open."

No Mary lets think about this. How much do you actually know about the decision your "democratic" government makes on your behalf. None, we know nothing to. And to say that this is democracy where every 5 years we get the privilege of voting in a new set of rulers then seriously you have to get your head out of the sand.

As for the garda being open, please, once again i say to you, they havent released any CCTV footage, they have started harrassing members of the public who made complaints against them, they are investigating the entire matter themselves, tell me again why people shouldnt be worried?

Perhaps stephen was wrong in saying 1984, but correct me if you wish when i say 1983, the run up to 1984.

by Stephen Rigney Thu May 23, 2002 20:01

"Do you even know what you mean when you say Fascist?"

I mean any group that tries to oppress our civil liberties

"Is every thief on the streets in Ireland a Fascist because they interfere with right of property?"

It depends on who the thief is and what type of property. If the people try to 'thieve' back the streets which belong to them that doesn't make them a thief but when the police try to protect the streets which the government has taken control of, that makes the government a thief.

"You don't have the right to do whatever you want whenever you want."

The only rights that I don't have are the rights to attack another person or oppress their rights. Everything else is a civil right (whether the states permits it or not)

"1984, now surely that's going a little too far"

OK, maybe not 1984 yet but as Brian said definately the run up. Look for example at the Echelon system of tapping every telephone call you make, every e-mail you write etc. Look at the growing totalitarian movement throughout the world under the banner of "War on Terror" and the simultaneous attacks on anti-globalisation/capitalism protests throughout the world (It is almost as if it is state policy to attack these protestors now). The times of totalitarianism are coming.

by Windy Bottom Thu May 23, 2002 20:18

www.whatreallyhappened.com open your eyes

by Mary Fri May 24, 2002 00:40

It looks like it's me against the world, however I am confdent in my beliefs and unafraid and will respond to each of you.

Brian, of the anarchist federation: Well that says it all, that you are clearly out to cause trouble and are anti-establishment whatever the establishment may be

If you had ever worked in your life, you would understand that it takes time before you can release video footage. It has to be passed by a lot of people first, and the danger is, if they do release it, people like you longing to live in James Bond Land will find secret messages that prove that the gardai are the Irish Big Brother to be...

And try telling the people of the late 1930's that you think you're living in a dictatorship...no further comment..

I have voted for my democratic government along with everybody else who exercises their right to vote...if you're so mistrusting, why don't you become a politician? No, let me answer that, because you're all talk...Every five years? Look at the past couple of decades and retract your statement.

Stephen Rigney

Take back the streets...Oh Stephen,how boring that slogan has become...

Civil rights, according to you appear to be determined by Stephen Rigney. Thank God you're not in government!

"tapping every telephone call you make, every e-mail you write etc."
I take it you've seen "Conspiracy Theory"? Stephen, my friend, IT WAS ONLY A FILM, FICTION...Try living in the real world!

"The times of totalitarianism are coming."

Go to your local library-to the history section...that happened back in the 19th century!

My advice to all-Stop making mountains out of molehills!

by Alice Fri May 24, 2002 10:38

Mary is obviously a piggy-wiggy or else she's taken a huge dose of some mind bending drug where selected articles in news reports become reality. My bet is that Mary has to be a copper or else married to one because no one could be that selective and I haven't come accross any drug which could induce the particular type of hallucination contained in her statements.

by neogeo Fri May 24, 2002 11:54

The word facism is being thrown about quite a bit here.

Nazis and fascists are totally against democracy. They do not believe in elections or free speech or in allowing the existence of political parties or trade unions, but in establishing totalitarian states which take charge of all parts of people’s lives. They attempt to achieve power by violent and militaristic means, and do not tolerate opponents. They are ultra-nationalistic, and have very sexist ideas about women’s place in society.

from:

http://www.anl.org.uk/01-fascism.htm

by Brian - Anarchist Federation Ireland Fri May 24, 2002 12:08

"It looks like it's me against the world, however I am confdent in my beliefs and unafraid and will respond to each of you."

So am i so here i go.

"Brian, of the anarchist federation: Well that says it all, that you are clearly out to cause trouble and are anti-establishment whatever the establishment may be."

Tsk, Tsk, Mary the Anarchist Federation is of course anti-establishment and anti-government we seek to overthrow capitalist governments and replace it with a society built on equality a society that you would also benefit from, this society is anarchist communism. Now im not going to go into a debate on how you see anarchist as trouble makers as if this is your opinion you are obviously ill-educated on the ideas of anarchism. If you would like to read more on anarchism and the theories involved point your browser towards www.struggle.ws and www.afireland.cjb.net. These site will show you that anarchists arent in fact your average masked terrorist. This belief in itself shows how much freedom of thought your capitalist government gives you.

"If you had ever worked in your life, you would understand that it takes time before you can release video footage. It has to be passed by a lot of people first, and the danger is, if they do release it, people like you longing to live in James Bond Land will find secret messages that prove that the gardai are the Irish Big Brother to be..."

"ever worked", please this is pathetic, i have worked in a variety of jobs and am working right now to put myself through college. dont be so low as to attack people in this manner please. As for video footage being prepared, i presume this in relation to CCTV. If this is the case you really havent been reading IMC ireland that much, read up. The garda wont release the footage it will be used in the internal investigation so the garda can cover up there stupidity. As for James Bond world, what are you on, if i live in James Bond world you got to get your head out of mainstream censored media land.

"And try telling the people of the late 1930's that you think you're living in a dictatorship...no further comment.."

I said that the dictatorship we live in now is a dictatorship but not of the same manner, capitalist lies instead of fascist lies. All in all it leads to an erosion of freedom and domination of our minds, your living proof of that mary.

"I have voted for my democratic government along with everybody else who exercises their right to vote...if you're so mistrusting, why don't you become a politician? No, let me answer that, because you're all talk...Every five years? Look at the past couple of decades and retract your statement."

What difference has your vote made Mary? Who are in power? Same power hungry corrupt politicians thats who! And no i dont agree with you that if i voted i could have made a difference, think about it, all parties are the same, power first, policies second and dropping down the list. No party makes a difference. Look at the greens in Germany, your deomocracy does not work. What about the last couple of decades nothing has changed, control has been strenghtened, capitalism has a grip stronger than its every had, so no i wont retract any statement, whatever one your talking about, clarity please.

Stephen Rigney

"Take back the streets...Oh Stephen,how boring that slogan has become..."

Whats your slogan Mary, sit at home let the steets be something you have no say in.

"Civil rights, according to you appear to be determined by Stephen Rigney. Thank God you're not in government!"

And why not, shouldnt we all be in control of our own civil liberties instead of the though police?

"tapping every telephone call you make, every e-mail you write etc."
I take it you've seen "Conspiracy Theory"? Stephen, my friend, IT WAS ONLY A FILM, FICTION...Try living in the real world!

Actually mary its quite known that this is very true, so again welcome back to the real world and point your browser towards
http://www.aclu.org/echelonwatch/
and
http://serendipity.magnet.ch/hermetic/crypto/echelon/echelon.htm

Regards,
Brian
AFI (personal capacity)

by acab Fri May 24, 2002 12:10

Hi, I am from holland and i live in Dublin for a yr now. I don't know whats happening but seizing video-footage from the press does harm to the freedom of press, as I believe is part of EU-rights. Next time there is something going on, it can happen dat more groups will wear hoodies/baclava's or someother thing to hide there faces or it can even go as far as people getting agressive towards the media, why? Well if everything recorded by the press goes directly to the garda why would I want the press to be in my demo/direct-action or anything else. I saw this happening in Holland before. People in demo's always tell me that I am paranoid wearing a hoodie and scarf in a demo, or they even end up calling me a black-blocker or whatever, but the thing is I don't want my picture ending up in some police files.
Lots of people will start going ow my god he is so paranoid, well in my home country there is a complete branch of cops continually keeping track of all activists using video-footage and much more media devices.

Please believe in a free-press and don't let the cops seize anything it's bad for the objectivity of the press!

by kitty-kat Fri May 24, 2002 12:19

Mary, you are an arrogant, smug, narrow minded fool. How dare you assume that because someone is a member of the Anarchist Federation they have naturally, never worked and are only "out to cause trouble". What ignorance! It's not trouble for the sake of it; because there's nothing good on TV. You are immediately dismissing a huge number of very disgruntled intelligent, active individuals with sincere and genuine criticisms of the state and it's minions. Unlike passive, uninformed individuals like yourself, who roll along to the ballot box every few years and forfeit all important decision making over to some fat cats with vested interests, we believe in an alternative people like you are too blinkered to see. Your blind faith in politicians (the suggestion of Brian of the ANARCHIST FEDERATION becoming one I find hilarious) and the shicaloonees is typical of the the unreflective, misinformed individual you prove yourself to be.

Do you honestly believe that an institution whose members (high ranking included) have behaved abominably, are capable of objectively investigating themselves? oh yes heads will roll, the great purging of the Gardai will start about now!? People have every right to feel threatened and in fear. For chrissake the very people we are supposed to turn to when we are vulnerable were/are attacking us when we are vulnerable!? I have never had any reason to distrust the Gardai or to resent them - until May 6th. What I saw was a gross abuse of power, denial of civil liberties and such unwarranted violence i hope never to be witness to again.

Though many would beg to differ, Cops ARE HUMAN TOO. A different form maybe, but there's some convincing scientifc evidence out recently to suggest that they are from a similar genetic line and just as capable of being corrupt, dishonest violent and self-serving as any human, particularly politicians and priests. But no the tapes were seized, the CCTV inaccessible, the complainants harrassed all for legitimate reasons.

Are you comfortable up there in cloud cuckoo land, with your liddl lamb? I really hope PC Plod doesn't come along and crack your skull open with his "self-defence" apparatus next time you peacefully stand up and represent the wishes of you and hundreds of others. That would be a rude awakening. But then you don't need to take to the streets, the politicians will take care of it all for you, and flush out all those krusty bloody hippies to make the world a safer, trouble free, place.

by Mister E Fri May 24, 2002 18:24

To everyone who has video evidence, I'd recommend taking a few copies of your footage, unedited and keeping them along with your original at different locations other than your home. It's st a matter of time until they'll be doing house calls. While it may be perfectly legal that our 'protectors' can obtain a warrant and seize all the videos they can, we should make it as difficult as we can for them; at least until they release their own CCTV footage. What they are trying to do now is compile as much evidence as they can against the protestors,not their colleagues.
Their excuse for their violence will be the car at Burgh quay and people who were throwing empty cans and other objects in response to protestors getting the shit beat out of them. Any faces they can get doing anything that may be construed as provoking the Gardaí or doing anything 'unlawful' will be added to their files and will most likely be singled out at future protests.
'Unawful' could be anything from shouting at the Gardaí, drinking a can in the streets or people trying to defend themselves or others. They're simply getting their story straight before it all gets to court.
I believe that all they will find after seizing the tapes is victim after victim getting beaten. They're going to be more worried than before. If there was any footage showing aggression on our part it would have been aired by now.

We are winning

by Stephen Rigney Fri May 24, 2002 23:29

Echelon is a widely known theory that has been proved to exist.

Another link http://fire.net.nz/echelon.htm

As for civil liberties, we are all able to choose our own destinies so why let someone else do it for you.