Today in Tulla, Banner confidcated and Tim ordered out for Inappropriate Tshirt

by Informed Thu Jun 26, 2003 13:39

Judge Mangan has refused to allow John Devane to present evidence in court today in the case of Jenny Hannon and Martin McGowan, Good Friday Resistance because it is political.

Judge Mangan later threatened to have Mary Kelly arrested for laughing in court.

by Informed Thu Jun 26, 2003 13:54

Owen Rice (the Black Pope) has been ordered out of the court as he was recognised by Judge Mangan as being one of the people who had earleir held banners outside the courthouse.

by Informed Thu Jun 26, 2003 14:50

Now Judge Mangan has ordered a female supporter out of court for wearing a Pitstop Ploughshares T-shirt.

Who is next, what will face the wrath of judge Joseph Mangan?

by Informed Thu Jun 26, 2003 15:05

Tim Hourigan and Owen Rice have been arrested for holding a banner outside the courthouse in Tulla.

by Informed Thu Jun 26, 2003 15:13

Tim,Owen and some others were holding banners outside the court when they were all brought in to court by order of Judge Mangan who had Tim an Owen held at the local Garda Station until they are needed for the court cases that are before him.

Mary Kelly's Trespass, Jenny Hannon and Martin McGowan's case and Eamon Murphy's cases are before Judge Mangan.

by Chekov Thu Jun 26, 2003 15:14

Remember article 46A of the constitution:

Members of the judiciary and the gardai are entitled to make up laws to arrest bothersome individuals who they deem to be troublemakers.

And article 46B:

The public shall enjoy all democratic freedoms
(except when exercising them could be annoying to the great and good)

I'll say one thing for those unionist scumbags: "Banana Republic" is not far wide of the mark.

by Informed Thu Jun 26, 2003 15:24

Tim and Owen were holding a banner a distance from the courthouse. When brought in to the court by order of judge Mangan it was claimed that the were interfering with the court this though they could be neither seen or heard from the court house.
They are in good spirits and hope to be released later this evening

by Informed Thu Jun 26, 2003 17:16

Tim and Owen have been released again, it did need Judge Mangan to come back after all had left to give the order to have them released, seems he had forgot he had them arrested.

by Eoin Dubsky Thu Jun 26, 2003 17:22

Best wishes from Turkey to everyone who was in court today! What was the outcome from today's hearing(s)?

Sounds like Kafka wasn't far off either Chekov... ;-)

Owen and Tim? Are they alright? Arrested for having a banner and a t-shirt?? (meanwhile World Airways, FBO, Aer Rianta, the airport cops, et al, are gun-running for America's imperial wars through Shannon Airport right under J Mangan's nose)

by Tim Thu Jun 26, 2003 22:43 at liberty despite the best efforts of the state

This is all so weird.

I had expected to go to court to see Inspector Kennedy gloating at Judge Mangan convicting four anti-war activists. As it was all cases were adjourned and the Judge made a farce of democracy and law.

Eamonn's case was adjourned because the state had forgotten to bring a report.
Mary Kelly's case was adjourned because her solicitor had not been given a copy of all reports by the prosecution.
Jenny and Martin's case was adjourned because the judge was too busy having people ejected and arrested to get through all the witnesses.

I was sitting in court wearing my "Wanted -George Bush T-shirt". I was sitting in the back quietly.
I've worn this t-shirt in court several times with no complaint from judge mangan.

I went out for a while to help Owen do the vigil outside.
I saw Sergeant Saunderson taking the banner off him.
I asked what was going on and I objected to the confiscation asserting our right to hold it in public outside the court. but alas the Sgt took it in. He hadn't even given us a caution but he folded it up and walked away.

Later, Eoin was holding a placard. The Judge popped out to the shop and saw us. shortly after he returned he sent the Sgt out again to seize the placard.

I told the Sgt that he couldn't have it because we had every legal right to hold it outside court.
He said the judge had ordered it.
I asked him if he was willing to arrest us if we refused to surrender it.

A few minutes later he came out with two other gardai and snatched it before we could stop him.

I then went in to watch a bit more of the proceedings.

The judge had adjourned Eamonn's case and was onto Mary's.
He interrupted that to say "that gentleman who has just come in I want to talk to you. Were you holding that banner"

"No judge" I said as I stand up "but I was with the man who was". I sounded surprised that he interrupted court for this.

"Did you not study civics in school? You are dressed inappropriately for court. I do not allow the DPP or the Taoiseach to be partisan in this court. You'll have to remove that T-shirt or leave."

I tried to reply to this abuse but he wouldn't allow me a word.
Civics? yes, I knew about the right to peaceful expression. And anyway this was not a "free mary kelly" t-shirt being worn before a jury.
George Bush has never been before Mangan
I was also confused that another supporter (who was wearing a Pit Stop Ploughshares t-shirt was not bothering him at this point) wouldn't have pointed her out though.

The judge asked me if I was a defendant or a witness.
"I'm not a defendant. I may be a witness"
"ARE YOU OR AREN'T YOU"
"I don't know yet, the defence may or may not call me"

Devane said this was a possibility.
The judge said I had to leave and could return when needed WITHOUT the T-shirt.
I asked that, in due course he would give me a written reason for this ejection. He snapped that he was not a "short hand typist"
So I left and started ringing the media.
At this stage we've lost a banner a placard and I've been chucked out. We got onto a barrister who was amazed and told us there was no legal grounds for any of this farce. He sounded appalled.

Later Owen Rice went in and sat quietly at the back (no funny t-shirt) but I saw him outside a few minutes later telling me he'd been ejected because he had been holding the banner earlier (which is not a crime)

This I found utterly farcical. I was annoyed at missing the cases and outraged at having my rights to protest curtailed twice in 5 days.

At lunch break Owen and I were standing outside the pub across the road holding our last remaining banner while the judge scowled at us. He was on the phone on the street.

At lunch-time a bunch of reporters and photographers turned up and they were brought up to speed.

After lunch John Devane asked for us to be readmitted. The judge was having none of it.
Owen started typing up a press release and I went to get air and spotted another supporter who had ejected from court. Mangan had finally spotted the ploughshares T-shirt that was being openly worn.

We finished the press release and decided we would stand quietly with the last banner and let the photographers see the cause of all the commotion.
Next thing you know the Sgt tells me that he "has to tell the judge about this"
"do what you must, please do what you feel you must but we're not going to stop exercising our rights"

two minutes later, he emerges, snatches the banner and tells us the judge wants to see us. The photographer is away snapping shots.

I walked in calmly. nobody was talking. it was very quiet so I addressed the judge.

"I was told you wanted to see me judge"
The judge said nothing.
Owen was still outside. He had apparently said that if the judge wanted to see him, that he could come outside. Owen was dragged in by Sgt. Saunderson.

The judge asked us if we were holding a banner.
We each said we had.
He said we were going to the Garda Station.
I asked why.
He said "you were interfering with the court"
"That's impossible I said. You could neither hear nor see us from inside here.I was merely exercising my rights under article 40 of the constitution to peacefully assemble and express myself"

The judge told the Gardai to arrest us. He told Devane that if we were needed as witnesses we would be brought back.

DS. Houlihan arrested us and escorted us out the back to the blue ford focus that he had followed me and Conor to Limerick in.

I asked why we couldn't walk the short distance to the court as we had no intention of absconding.
"You're in custody now mr. Hourigan"
Yes, Detective I understand, but as an environmentalist I'd rather walk than make an unnecessary car journey. The female Gardai seemed unaccustomed to calm manners from the recently arrested.

We got to the station but had to wait for Sgt. Saunderson to get the keys to open it up. (Tulla is a town of 300 people. the Garda Station has no cells and is not open 24 hrs a day)
We were brought in and we sat down in the public office.
After the Sgt had finished asking for backup to keep an eye on us we started asking to be read our rights. The Sgt said he didn't have to because we weren't being put in cells.
Owen asked to be shown the sheet which lists an arrestee's rights.
The Sgt said he didn't have to do that either because we weren't being put in cells.
In fairness Sgt. Saunderson was probably thinking it was too farcical too bother.
I asked to make a phone call.
Sgt. Saunderson asked who I was ringing and why I should be given a phone call etc.
"Sgt, in all respect, I have a RIGHT to a phone call to inform a friend or family that I have been arrested. I don't actually have to justify that, it's a right".
So I rang a friend who made many of the postings above.

After a while we were brought back to court to face the judge.
"Do you wish to leave town or spend the rest of the court session in the Garda Station?"
"No" I replied politely.
"Which one" he said.
"I don't wish either" (as if I would say I WANT to be punished for no good reason! I was leaving it all in his hands)

he put the same question to Owen.
"I don't see why I should do either he said"
"take them away".
So we filed out past the eager photographers and went back to the station where we had tea and slices of brack and a very amicable chat about Shannon and Iraq with the Gardai.
I was telling them about D.S. Houlihans rude remarks to Nuria Mustafa at the last demo, when he arrived in the station.
"I was just talking about your conversation with Nuria" I said.
He pretended not to know what I was on about.
"Nuria Mustafa Dunne"
"Ah, the Iraqi woman." he said and tried to play it down.
he told us court was over, we could go but they were keeping the banners.
I asked under what law. They said the judge ordered it.
"That's very arbitrary" I said as I left and walked down to Minougues where the activists were in the front room, and the judge, cops and Airport Police were in the back. Interestingly, it was the activists in the back room in the morning. We took this as a good omen.
I eventually got filled in on the court proceedings and went home wondering how on earth a District judge could order people arrested for holding a banner in the street.
I also wondered why it hadn't sunk it to mr Mangan that neither myself nor Owen Rice would back down on a fundamental human right just because a District Judge was in a bad mood.

Any let's hear it "Now, we respect people's right to protest but..."

"look, if it wasn't for the US military, ye wouldnt' be able to protest. If ye were in Iraq ye'd all be arrested for it"

Do judges not understand irony?

by pc Fri Jun 27, 2003 00:52

is it on indymedia, re iraqi women?

by Acidburn Fri Jun 27, 2003 02:59

report Tim. More of this please.

by Jiminy Cricket Fri Jun 27, 2003 09:23

Hi Tim,

Have a look at the material in the link for the current law.

by Courtier Fri Jun 27, 2003 13:21

Civics class, June 24th. 2003

As any good civics teacher knows taking pupils to see how a court works is a far more valuable learning experience than merely reading about it in books.

The following valuable lessons were learnt in Court yesterday.
1. The gravity of the offence of allowing one’s mobile phone to ring in court is in direct proportion to the social or official status of the owner of the said phone. The higher the status the lesser the offence.
2. It would appear that judges shout at people in court. (NB. Remember to tell pupils in civics class next week that this is not true of all courts.)
3. Solicitors may wear whatever colour they wish in court but members of the public would need to be most circumspect about their dress code. What is acceptable one week may not necessarily be so the following week. Indeed, mores change from hour to hour.
4. While a judge is free to comment on the perceived discourtesy of others he may stretch the bounds of courtesy to accommodate his own discourteous language. The following is an example of such use; ‘and the next time you slam that door lady you’ll hear another door slam behind you’.
5. Judges frequently ask questions, which are quite evidently not rhetorical questions, but any attempt at response on the part of the person questioned are quickly stymied.
6. Judges can overrule the right to peaceful protest outside the court. The punishment is to go to jail or leave town.
NB. Must amend the chapter in the Civics Textbook on freedom of speech and the right to protest peacefully to fit in with current court practice.

by Judge "M" - old boys network Fri Jun 27, 2003 15:56 ill_send_you_down at judge dot ie HALLS OF JUSTICE, CLARE

Judge M pronounced recently that there was an "arrogant, egotistical minority who take the law into their own hands."

"They may be on the street or they may be sitting behind a judges bench somewhere wearing a black robe" he said before stating that they may be "in league with the reds under the bed and the toothfairy"

He accused "some people" of placing themselves on a higher plane than other citizens. "Those who profess to seek peace in the world should begin by behaving peaceably at home," he declared as he bullishly shouted and abused mild-mannered people who had been sitting quietly.

by dont take their crap Fri Jun 27, 2003 16:34

In Re Pollard,LR 2 PC 106 (1868).
the Judicial Committee stated that:

“no person should be punished for contempt of Court, which is a criminal offence, unless the specific offence charged against him be distinctly stated, and an opportunity of answering it be given to him.”

by Justin Morahan Fri Jun 27, 2003 18:01

I'm in shock all day after reading the above accounts of Judge Joseph Mangan and Tulla Court.
A few thoughts come to mind
1) Would it be possible to have the Judge charged with ordering an unlawful arrest for the unfurling of a banner?
2) How far outside his courtroom does Judge Mangan think his jurisdiction extends and how far does it really extend?
3) Is it an offence at law to laugh in court?
4) Is courtroom apparel designated by Irish law?
5) If the unfurling of an anti-war banner interfered with the administration of justice in that particular case, (Cf Irish Times report, IT June 27) how did the Judge arrive at the decision that the conduct of the war could not be invoked as a defence?
6)When Judge Mangan said in a previous court that anti-war activists who took the law into their own hands were "an arrogant and egotistical minority" was he not judging beforehand other anti-war activists who had still to come before him, and was he not rendering himself by his comments unfit to judge any future such cases?

by Roisin Ni Ghairbhith - Totally disorganised Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:17 Garynagry, kilnamona, co. Clare 086 1043528

Ok so the judge has obviously completely lost it. but his reactions dont surprise me at all i dont know why it's a big deal this is what judges do and who cares, i think it's gas that tim went straight out to ring the media, this is not a circus or a melodrama lads dont waste ye're energuy in such trivia which is probably whatthe judge wanbts, focus on your goals and conserve your energy for things worth fighting about. A little diplomacy goes along way sometimes, call me soft or accuse me of conforming but when i work with the travellers i learn a bit of their cant and they use less around me so i can understand and things work out pretty ok, a little give and take goes along way.