Help needed for Ireland-Zimbabwe solidary campiagn

by rooibos Sat Jul 05, 2008 23:01

Haughey was of course the Taoiseach when Mugabe was received in Ireland and included references to Northern Ireland in his speeches. You would have to have been there I suppose to catch the atmosphere and general feeling his words were received in. Haughey fell from grace afterwards but never having been as much of a hero as Mugabe had been knew to provide his people and party with a successor.

Rifkind was UK minister of defence when the Chinook helicopter Mull of Kintyre crashes happened. The most awkward members of the British intelligence community left around after Airey had left the hall of mirrors which is the lie of the land when we really seriously want to appraise the roles of mi5/mi6 blaa blaa

by Hugh Briss Wed Jul 02, 2008 20:07

John Barry:

What are their suggestions for what we should do in relation to Zimbabwe - turn a blind eye? Say its 'none of our business'?

Exactly John, it IS none of your business, it's an internal matter for the Zimbabweans to sort out for themselves.

What if in 1980 Mr Mugabe had decided that NI was not democratic enough and maybe he should give material support to the IRA? Would you have applauded that decision, John? Or would you have agreed that he should be told to fuck off?

What are the grounds for not condemning the Mugabe regime and supporting the MDC

see above

- its an M15 set-up? - get real folks!

I think it's you that may need to get real John. When you look at who finances Mr Tsvangirai's MDC you find the names Douglas Hurd and Malcolm Rifkind, 2 ex-Tory ministers from the Tatcher era. Consequently it's not a massive leap of logic to suspect MI5/6 involvement.

It's bleeding heart sheep like you John that the media love to stir up in order to generate a groundswell of opinion in favour of 'intervention' (invasion in non-Orwellspeak).
If you're truely worried about 'democracy' then maybe you'd be better off jumping on a 'Force the EU to respect the Irish vote'-bandwagon (something which will accect you personally) rather than the 'Lets all prepare the groundwork to convince everyone that we should invade Zimbabwe'-bandwagon you seem to be more comfortable riding

The hypocrisy of EU people demanding democracy in Zimbabwe while the most basic rules of democracy are flouted here in the EU, is astounding

EU Democracy in action . . .

by Hugh Briss Wed Jul 02, 2008 19:06

the best way to show solidarity with Zimbabwe would be to demand that the Irish Gov't and the EU respect the democratic will of the Irish People when they voted NO to Lisbon. Pots and Kettles and all that . . . .

by Hubris - SMERSCH Wed Jul 02, 2008 15:31

So, still convinced Morgan is one of the good guys?

by Hubris - Smersch Wed Jul 02, 2008 15:29

So, who provides the money to that wonderfully independent and fantastically democratic political party MDC (Millions of Dead curly-haired-people) and it’s inspirational leader Mr Morgan (Can you kill Mugabe for me?) Tsvangirai?

Well, some of the people involved in the Rape of Yugoslavia, that’s who.

http://hubriticanomaly.blogspot.com/2008/07/right-wing-....html

by iosaf Sat Mar 17, 2007 13:45

I'm just not sure what the best strategic way forward is. The Mugabe regime has worried me a long time - more so because he is now so obviously a dinosaur - but most democratic institutional means of dislodging him have failed. I've been thinking about it a bit over the last weeks - the sight of the leader of the opposition with cracked skull was just a vicious reminder of what is unseen. For some reason I thought of Amin's latest movie - "the last king of scotland" & wondered is it time yet to call Mugabe "the first king of rhodesia" - meaning I wondered are people in the west ready to understand where Mugabe's regime came from - and why it is still there. Not that understanding the "Mugabe anomaly" is that important when being horrified at the treatment of the poor & opposition. But all solidarity actions should begin with the poor - not the "dispossessed" Rhodesians. That's not a class or ethnic based opinion - it's a reaction to Mugabe's propaganda - even now almost 30 years later his regime rests on the fictions of the collapse of Rhodesia and the foundation of Zimbabwe. Perhaps exile communities might play a greater part - are we ready for a Nobel prize winning author? It seems the only way to crank up the migrant community campaigns which seem weaker in their opposition than as comparison the Estafan Cubans who oppose Castro from Miami. (horses for courses)
I'll add to this debate soon. I've left a lot of stuff on the clearances of the slums and the election protests and of course Mugabe's "soul" & peculiar visits to Europe - [he only gets in to see the Pope or an international meeting] which if a reader is interested can be found easily along with good contributions by others through our search engine at the top of the screen by typing "zimbabwe" or "mugabe".

shona lá padraig dhoibh! happy patrick's day! (you don't become a saint for special cleansing - bring the snakes back!)

by Laura Sat Mar 17, 2007 13:30 acacia347 at wildmail dot com

I cannot believe some of the insane comments being posted here, apparently in support of Butcher Bob. However, at least in this country we have freedom of speech, unlike the people of Zimbabwe. The MDC needs as much support as possible at this moment. The West, and Britain in particular, ought to intervene in some way. Mugabe has ridden roughshod over the constitution of the country and elections have been observed as being highly corrupt. Life expectancy has plummeted, unemployment is at 80% and even very basic supplies are in extremely short supply. Some comments here appeared to support the land grab. That is shameful and racist. The fact is that the agricultural sector was a vital component of the economy. When that collapsed, so did the economy. The situation is reminiscent of Amin's expulsion of Uganda's Asian community. Secondly, many of the thugs who invaded white owned farms were far too young to have been 'war veterans'. Many were actually paid to invade. The land wasn't even distributed fairly, with Mugabe's cronies benefiting the most. We have all heard the shocking reports of the violence that occurred during this time. Thabo Mbeki says we are concerned because of what happened to the whites. That is an extremely weak argument. We must all remember that it is the black population that has suffered the most under this tyrant. It is all very well to wear a white band to 'make poverty history'. That is just a pathetic gesture if we fail to assist in this man made catastrophe. Morgan Tsvangarai is a very brave man, and I think that an Irish solidarity campaign is of great importance. Any interest in getting something going in the Republic?

by me Wed Jun 11, 2003 19:39

don't know where to begin here...

Food or tobacco or cut flowers grown on industrial farms in Africa are often grown for export to Europe.

After the liberation war, Mugabe's government started assisting small farmers in the "communal areas" (ie. the least productive third of the country in which the African / Black 95% of the population were relegated - so as to provide a pool of labour that could not support themselves by subsistance and so had to work on plantations or mines). The result of this assistance was that smallholders began producing the majority of the staple food crop maize for the country.

Between independence in 1980 and 1998, only 3% of the country had been transfered from large scale commercial farming to small scale farming.

Land reform was desparately needed, but the Lancaster House (ceasefire) agreement insisted on a willing seller-willing buyer policy for the first 10 years of independence. This resulted in many white owned commercial farms being sold to other white landowners as the government could not afford the prices that were asked, and the British government reneiged on an agreement to provide funds to buy farms for redistribution to small scale farmers.

Land reform has become highly politicised / polarised. Some large scale farms have now been broken up and redistributed to small scale farmers. However, some farms had been transfered to goverment officials etc who do not use the land productively.

Many of the badly exploited workers on the white owned commercial farms are descended from migrants from other neighbouring countries and are not elligible for redistributed land and have become landless/homeless.

Mugabe has instigeted recent laws that are certainly draconian, but are the same as those in the early 1960's when Rodesia was still a British colony. The laws enforced during the illegal white minority apartheid regime of Ian Smith's Unilaterally Declared Independence were harsher still.

Mugabe is using incitement to hatred and political violence to maintain his position of power. Food is being used as a political weapon during the current drought / famine.

At the time of the 2002 presidential election, the opposition MDC party's economic policy was only available on the internet and was not available to the many of the membership. Much of the party's support comes from trade unionist who have been opposing privatisation, particularly for electricity and the railways.

However, the MDC's economic policies were put together by a white businessman and typically "neo-liberal". They can be summed up as: privatise as much as possible in our fist 100 days in power and extend a begging bowl to the world bank 5 times bigger than Mugabe ever did.

Mugabe will use any means to retain power.
The MDC has been sold out by the businessmen.

Land reform is probably one of the most crucial issues to be addressed in many countires of the world if another world is to become possible.

by Frank Tue Jun 10, 2003 12:37

Buy millions of shares in the organisations you oppose :) :) :) :) :) :)

by Robby Mon Jun 09, 2003 16:16

Yes, because they are the best means to produce food, food, that is desperately needed on that continent!

by ipsiphi Sun Jun 08, 2003 13:26

has often been manipulated.
but in spirit it must always be encouraged.

as for Pik Botha, i remember Angus was the hippy trippy freaki anarkisty muppet who hit P.Botha with an egg from my girlfriend's father's egg farm when visited Dublin in 1989.
It was a direct hit.
Aungus scored the only direct hit with an egg on P Botha that year in Europe.
That signifies an interest in South African Aparthied affairs that ran deeper than merely those in the K. Asmel circle.
So we Irish can think and contribute to Zimbabwe, was not Dublin the first city visited by Mugabe after independence?
Yes it was.
up to our necks in it we Irish.
we have much to make better.

by KKK aryan resistence Sat Jun 07, 2003 23:00

Yes I agree absolutely with the poster above, many black servants support the 'democratic' opposition. These black servants don't want their whole world turned upside down, they are use to the discipline and instruction of their refined white colonial masser landowners.

These simple black peasants are lost without instructions from their white bosses and landowners.

The whole infra structure of zimbabwean society is crumbling, because of black upstarts like Mugabe.

In the olden days black servants, farm workers knew their place, now they have the cheek to challenge their superior white bosses.

It makes me and many other nazis and well bred aryan people very disgusted to see low bred black kulis rampaging through the exclusive settlements of white landowners. Something must be done to put a stop to commie filth like Mugabe and his heathen herd.

by Pains McKenna Sat Jun 07, 2003 22:12

Okay, so the CIA fund the opposition yada yada ya. So explain to us how this proves that Mugabe is a misunderstood and gentle man who rescues kittens from the street, gives candy to children and supports the free press, fair elections and allows political opposition.

Listen, you fucking headcase. Mugabe is a thug, a despot, and completely opposed to freedom. Just because the opposition isn't perfect doesn't change the fact that he is an evil man. Of course, you will now explain that the MDC are actually Martians, Jewish Martians to be precise, and Mugabe would just have a perfect country if it wasn't for their meddling.

Go back to your sewer, you immoral fascist heap of shit.

by know your place Sat Jun 07, 2003 21:32

I is a professional college lecturer, from a respectable wealthy middle class home in the countryside, my mudder is head of the womens institute tea circle, my dearest pappa is a retired prison officer, and I am very scared of big black boys like demon black faced Mr Mugabe. We really should be whipping up mass white hysteria about Mr Mugabe, stealing refined, civillised white colonial farmers lands and giving these lands back to dirt poor unrefined black faced peasant riff raff.

It's shocking to see, black faced dirt poor peasants enjoying the villas, swimming pools and farm equipment of civillised white colonial farmers some of whom are golfers. It just looks wrong, imagine a sunkissed golden land like Sun city in the transvaal, then think horrible black folks invading, people that smell and don't know how to use a golf club and don't know how to act in the company of HM. These low bred black invaders have never met the Queen, they wouldn't know how to behave in civillised sophisticated high society.

The 'Democratic' opposition to black faced upstart Mr mugabe, are disgusted to see their white massers turfed off their lands. These people are lost without the instruction of their white massers. These faithfull blacks know their place in society.

by James McKenna Sat Jun 07, 2003 17:37

The existence of a well orchestrated private media campaign to discredit the democraticlly elected Government of Zimbabwe by the most virulent means at their disposal has generated a sense of urgency and determination, on the part of Government, to fight back and reaffirm its leadership and image as the popular and legitimate political authority over Zimbabwe.

The world must respect for the sovereignty of Zimbabwe within the community of nations. The US/UK have some neck calling for democrac in Iraq and Afghanistan but making sure it never happens while at the same time trying to destroy it in Zimbabwe.

Human rights abuses? Have you seen the Amnesty report on Ireland? You should bear in mind that the Zim legal system is British, just like ours and in the process of true revolution this system of law becomes and impediment. Laws designed to protect private property don't hold much weight for human rights and justice being done for a long downtrodden and enslaved nation.

Almost all of those White "Farmers" were in the Rhodesian army during the 1970's when they shot any kaffir that moved. Human rights?...have you seen how they used to allow alsatian dogs tear civil rights protestors apart ? Remember the detention centres like Guantanamo bay? The torture? The mass graves? Nah, you don't because the good old British media we feed from in Ireland didn't cover it.

Now people squak because an uncle Tom like Svengarai is put in prison for trying to start riots! You would also be thrown in jail in Ireland if you tried to start such serious disturbances of the peace, sabotage and collaboration with foreign security services in the comission of these acts. The Gardai might even infringe a few other of your rights too .

by Anonymous Sat Jun 07, 2003 13:44

James, don't know enough about the MDC to make a proper comment on them, but I do not agree with your defence (implicit or otherwise) of Mugabe's government.

The following excerpt from an Amnesty report on Zimbabwe gives a flavour of what I am talking about. To put it mildly, it does not shine a favourable light on the supposedly "free", "democratic", elections in Zimbabwe and the rule of Mugabe and his militia:-

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAFR460122003?open&of=ENG-2AF

Dated: 02/05/03

Zimbabwe - Rights under siege

I. Introduction

Since 2000, the human rights situation in Zimbabwe has undergone a rapid decline. Parliamentary and presidential elections held in 2000 and 2002 respectively were marred by politically motivated violence, intimidation and attacks, largely on the political opposition. The government initiated a controversial land reform program which sparked illegal occupations of commercial farms by so-called war veterans and other illegal settlers, and resulted in, among other things, the forced eviction of hundreds of thousands of farm workers, farmers and their families. State-sponsored intimidation, unlawful arrests and torture perpetrated by the police, ruling party supporters, youth "militia(1)," and other state agents have become commonplace. The main targets for repression have been those most vocal and critical of the government's human rights record, namely the independent media, the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) and civil society organizations attempting to protect human rights.

One of the government's key vehicles for repression has been the introduction and use of an armoury of restrictive legislation designed to suppress dissent and place under siege the rights of freedom of expression, association and peaceful assembly. The most commonly used and repressive pieces of legislation include, in the order in which they were introduced, the Broadcasting Services Act, the Public Order and Security Act, the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, the Private Voluntary Organizations Act and the Labour Relations Amendment Act. Many provisions of these Acts directly contravene Zimbabwe's national Constitution and international human rights standards which enshrine and guarantee the rights of Zimbabweans to the freedoms of expression, association and assembly.

This report explains the context in which the legislation has been introduced, charting in particular the government's escalating repression of the political opposition, the independent media and civil society. In light of Zimbabwe's human rights obligations under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the African Charter on Human and Peoples' Rights and other international standards to which Zimbabwe is a party, the report examines how provisions of the Broadcasting Services Act, the Public Order and Security Act, the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, the Private Voluntary Organizations Act and the Labour Relations Amendment Act have been used to suppress and violate internationally recognized rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly. The report contains recommendations to the Zimbabwean government for action to protect the human rights of all Zimbabweans.

by James McKenna Sat Jun 07, 2003 12:31

The MDC and their traitor leader are calling for people to get out on the streets and depose a democratically elected government. That is why the bastard is in jail. Is the Green Party supporting the overthrow of a democratically elected government?

The elections were monitored by observers from nations like South Africa and Norway who declared them free and fair. The only people to claim that Mr Mugabe and Zanu PF are not democatically elected are the countries with vested interests in the Zimbabwean corporate sector and their friends.

I suggest we assist the Zimbabwean people in their struggle to return their country to a place where humans and not corporations and British work ethics have precedent. A place where the massive corporate tracts that are so destructive to the environment are a thing of the past.

You, Mr Barry want to return the European Corporations and systems of mass farming of land and black people through their so-called "farms" ? Is this Green Party policy?

We are never shown the "farm-yards" where maybe 500 or 2000 black workers live in neat little rows of cabins. No buses to a town becuase they have all they need here. The "farm" shop. The "farm" doctor, etc etc. In fact, "they owe their soul to the company store ".

by John Barry - NI Green Party Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:06 j.barry at qub dot ac dot uk

A quick reply to the 2 negative comments on the appeal I posted last night.
I'm disappointed at the completely negative comments in both. So, what they are both saying
seems to be basically supporting Mugabe and his oppression of the opposition?

What are their suggestions for what we should do in relation to Zimbabwe - turn a blind eye?
Say its 'none of our business'? What are the grounds for not condemning the Mugabe regime and supporting
the MDC - its an M15 set-up? - get real folks!

by James McKenna Sat Jun 07, 2003 09:01 jimmymac61 at hotmail dot com

Why would any Green want to help the massive corporate farmers of Zimbabwe?

These Bristish backed bastards have tried to hold Zimbabwe by brutal oppression up until they lost the war, tried to subvert the democratically elected government after they had signed the Lancaster House agreement and now have formed a political party - MDC - to try and stop the final liberation of the land of Zimbabwe.

Just because these White thugs and supremacist industrial farmers and corporate chemical and seed companies, etc have a so called "opposition" party does not mean they are political. They are truly terrorists and they way they have acted in Ireland these past few decades should teach us not to believe thier lies about Mugabe or Zimbabwe.

The whites used the dirtiest terrorist tactics when fighting the popular revolution. They beat children in front of their parents for not speaking properly to their bosses. Now those children(war veterans) and the former MI5 backed terrorists(MDC) face each other again. Who should we support? The Corporate White Bullies who want to go back to 20,000 acre farms and cheap produce for Tesco , or a people trying to make family farms and sustainable holdings from the old landlord estates.

Incidentally the Irish landlords never had "Farms" as big as the ones in Zimbabwe . The present cycle of the pro-MI5 /MDC propaganda is very interesting. Most interesting is where you find the MI5 mantra repeated.....like on Indymedia by an alleged "Green".

Dear Mr Green can you really justify 40,000 acres industrial farms ?

by yessar mr bossman Fri Jun 06, 2003 23:45

Why bother interferring in other peoples backyards. Alot of white people are very enthusiastic when it comes to tackling the menace of black blokes in africa. I don't think you were that enthusiastic when it came to protesting against white menace Pik botha and apartheid in South Africa. There seems to be double standards when it comes to poor white colonial massers getting kicked off the land they robbed off black natives. Yes they cultivated the land, using black slave labour. It was soo generous of white bossman masser to allow the black natives to work on their land for slave wages. If the 'democratic' opposition are anything like the 'Democratic unionist party/DUP' the picture becomes clearer. I think you'll find that caring QUB 'green' party middle class professional's worst nightmare has been realised, of rampaging upstart blacks taking back their land and turfing out white masser bossman. It's enough to give the good oul KKK boys sleepless nights. Mugabe must be stopped before he invades northern ireland and enslaves poor white folks. If you keep stirring up shite in other peoples countries, I hope you're prepard to welcome Zimbabwean refugees with open arms, because the chickens will eventually come home to roost.