Irelands Pivotal Role In International Politics

by Josef Sun Jun 01, 2003 19:37

put down the crack pipe and get your head out your arse.

by Irish American Sun Jun 01, 2003 21:01

The first paragraph was funny, it read like one of Myles naGopaleen's old columns.

Then we went on to an exegesis of Fintan O'Toole's ideas in "The Ex-Isle of Erin: Images of a Global Ireland."

Then we ended up with a Pioneer anti-booze tract.

by ??? Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:50

I agree to a certain extent with the author that we are stereotyped as drunks/heavy drinkers abroad, but whether the is the sole or most important factor that keeps us from organising a united mass grassroots based movement I find highly questionable.

The following are a number of obvious factors that spring to mind;
Ideological differences, "Who are the real Revolutionaries" or "They aren´t left wing enough".

Television, How many people in Ireland would prefer to (and do) watch coronation street, eastenders, or a football match instead of organising resistance to the status quo.

To a slightly lesser extent these days but not to be forgotten.
The role of religion, in keeping people subservient and under control. "If we good (i.e. not break the rules or fight for a better existence in this life) then in the next life we´ll spend with our creator in eternal bliss.
Not to mention through years of schools we´ve been tought to obey the rules etc.
I know the Catholic workers have taken part in some pretty decent activism recently, but in the whole scheme of things it doesn´t amount to a hill of beans.

Financial and family responsibilities, Mortgages, other debts. These keep people under control. "If I keep my head down I´ll be ok." Most people are 3 paychecks from being homeless therefore actively standing up against the status quo can seem ominous to say the least especially if this means risk of repression or arrest.

There are also other drugs that can hinder the emergence of a revolutionary movement. In the Basque Country the Spanish govt. organised the introduction of heroin into separtist strongholds. A whole generation was affected with the effects of the drug and many young people especially died as a result. This has also happened here in Ireland in north Dublin(maybe the govt didn´t introduce the drug but they did fuck all to stop it).

A colonised mindset. I still that we have a colonised midset of "yes sir". Demoralised and a lack of self esteem, amongst the majority on this island the thought of a better world can seem so far beyond realisation that any realistic can seem futile.

There are undoubtedly more factors that I haven´t mentioned i.e. personality clashes, media in the hands of the status quo, sexism, racism.
But feel free to add them if you wish.

by Mike Mon Jun 02, 2003 12:31 stepbystepfarm at shaysnet dot com

I think what Declan is trying to say (sorry if I get this wrong) is that instead of "classical" left thinking of what would happen if Ireland managed what he calls "real democracy" you need to consider American INTERNAL politics. Consider the possibility that you would NOT be crushed by American "right" power because that would cost too many Irish-American votes (for their internal agendas). In other words, the US capitalists might not LIKE Irish socialism (if it came about) but the price of interfering with it would be too high. He is probably correct about that. That's how American politics works.

But I strongly disagree with his idea of redefining "democracy" into meaning "democracy which makes what are considered 'good' decisions". Sorry, but there is no magic about democracy to guarantee good decisions by the people and that's not what democracy is all about. The virute of demcoracy is that "the people" get to make the decisions, are responsible for what happens, for good OR ill.

by Declan F Hogge Mon Jun 02, 2003 12:46 albatrosspie at hotmail dot com 086 8647529

I chose to concentrate on alcohol in this article because it is the most widely used (and almost universally encouraged) social inhibitor in this country.However,it is my view that any chemical substance,be it synthetic,natural,illegal or prescribed that is used to alleviate symptoms of dissatisfaction and anger,is in fact reinforcing the cause rather than moving to eliminate it.
Television is just another mechanism to soothe people,and advocate consumerist lifestyles.It normalises and even institutionalises all kinds of ridiculous behaviour.
I stand over all that I wrote in the article.Until the human mind is freed of confusing,behaviour altering,and often government produced chemicals,it is nigh on impossible for it to tackle 'The Status Quo'.
As for anyone who thinks they are dealing with a hippy,feel free contact me for a good honest to god fist fight at any time.

by iosaf who is the Elf of the horde. - elfos endevant! Mon Jun 02, 2003 14:25

today in Irish history:
June 2
1567 - Murder of the Ulster chieftain Shane O’Neill
1891 - A proposal for the penalty kick is accepted by the Football Association
1956 - Brendan Behan’s play, The Quare Fella opens at the Theatre Royal, Stratford East, gaining Behan international recognition for the first time.

TV is number one though for the social inhibiting. Opium is great,
http://www.ieo.org/opm_mass.html
site on the cultivation there-of.

Now what you say is in some ways right.
loads of the _·"social inhibiting"·_
going on, but also there are lots of _·"cash crops"·_ being cultivated, weighed, sold, bagged, mashed, transported, destilled, brewed, caked, resined, and most of this involves $€.

Think about how the Irish get their alcohol. Because most of you don't make it in your home.
tis $€ always. anyway thanks for the post.

New book on Shackleton
http://www.irishabroad.com/Culture/books/

by FUCK YOU ALL - FUCK YOU ALL Mon Jun 02, 2003 14:38

Very good point, and the IMCer that tosses hippy at every post he doesn't understand... I know where you live and I am coming to tear your toenails out.
"The drink" is the oldest and most effective chemical weapon in the colonial arsenal, and the majorty of people living on that island were a perfect test subject, time will tell as we enter an accelerated age, the weapon begins to perform remarkably and has now become a multi billion euro trade, now they couldn't give it up if they wanted to. As for the status quo, it never was and it never will be our deadliest enemy, the world is a dangerous place thanks to us people, if some choose to hide from it in their daily soap please leave them be. Their blind acceptance is probably the most effective weapon against an even more deadly enemy than the status quo... namely humankind so I said it before I will say it again FUCK YOU ALL and I look forward to watching you all burn in a nuclear inferno.

by live and let live Mon Jun 02, 2003 16:00

some interesting pipe dreams there but a lot of violent responses and challenges (fist-fighter). Maybe some of your anger would be better spent over a pint than horded up and redirected at ordinary folk like myself who like a pint and don't want to push my ideas of what people should or shouldn't do on them. I'm usually happy enough with the status quo and where I'm not happy I object - I feel no need to encourage others to object with me if they don't feel the need to object themselves.

No point blaming drink for Irish apathy - maybe people are apathetic becauseour basic needs are being looked after for once. Maybe you are a victim of some inner anger and aggression that you want to deal with by projecting it outside. Relax.

by Declan F Hogge Tue Jun 03, 2003 20:58 albatrosspie at hotmail dot com

Anger is not a disease.It is a reaction to something.If you think that the solution to the state of internationally sanctioned genocide and torture that is currently 'The Status Quo',is to "relax",then you,my innocent lad,are locked(pun intended) in exactly the kind of denial that will ensure that things will only get worse.
And in the unlikely event that any of us get the opportunity to reflect on what we allowed to happen,our excuse will be,"I was too busy relaxing and just chilling with a few brews to notice what was happening,man".
There is nothing more scary than unchallenged consensus.I'd rather be a pain in the ass that points out unpopular truths than everybody's best buddy.
If you mistake my concern for the way the political climate is taking an alarming swing to the right for some kind of busy body puritanism,you've had too many whiskeys,cos I dont give a rat arsed rats ass what you do with your time as long as it doesn't shorten mine.Unfortunately,every time you get hammered,I have one less alert, reasonable,and capable potential ally when Ireland goes the same way Argentina did and we end up chasing cattle round fields wth hurleys because our kids are starving.

by Gobsheen - The Gobs Tue Jun 03, 2003 21:01

How the fuck can anyone spend their anger over a pint?It sounds euphamistically ejaculatory to me.