what about Aceh?

by Matthew Wed May 21, 2003 13:54

Iraq was a sovereign state recognised by every other such state on the planet. Aceh is not. Sucks, but that's the nation-state system for you. From a legal point of view compare Aceh to Chechnya, not Iraq or East Timor.

by Ruairi Wed May 21, 2003 14:44

THERE WAS NEWS FRM ACEH POSTED ON INDYMEDIA IRELAND BUT IT GOT LOST ON THE NEWSWIRE...... See Below

http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=48966&start=30

by Ruairi Wed May 21, 2003 14:48

Tomorrow night (€5/or free if u can't afford) there will be a talk on Indonesian occupied West Papua called 'Globalisation and Genocide in West Papua'. It is chaired by George Monbiot and will feature Papuan and Indonesian activists John Rumbiak and Carmel Budiardjo.

More info at http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=48894

by Red 1913 Wed May 21, 2003 15:00

Socialists dont charge into meetings. This is organised by and for the middle classes. No proles wanted.

by Mike Wed May 21, 2003 15:32 stepbystepfarm at shaysnet dot com

The question was NOT about why the various other nation states were not intervening but why WE weren't making a fuss. And why do you assume that the comparison should be with Iraq? Don't we hear enough pronouncements FROM NATION STATES about the situation in Israel-Palestine? So isn't it obvious that nation states do NOT bother about this ditinction "internal" vrs "exteranl" unless it is their perceived self interest to do so. (the point here is that the Palestinians have never been a "nation state" but that doesn't seem to keep either us OR governments from treating it as an "external" fight.

LOOK -- The people of Aceh don't consider themselves "Indonesians". The Chechins don't consider themselves "Russians" either, but let's stick to the Indonesia problem. Why can't we discuss it? Here we have a region where a nation state was created on the sole basis that the region had been under the same colonial "power". Nothing else in common between the peoples. No thought whatever given to the fact that these islands were pretty diverse and that IF they were to be made a single country, then presumably only some kind of "federation" structure would be suitable.

Now the classical "leftists" among us think everybody SHOULD identify as either "workers" or "exploiters" and not as members of this or that culture. So they don't see a problem with trying to impose "democracy" (here -- exploitation of minority cultures by majority culture, with these minority cultures being both territorial and of a size comparable to nation states elsewhere). In other words, they don't believe such cultural identification SHOULD exist.

Point is, that is how humans have always tended to organize themselves, cultures. "Should" doesn't enter into it, giving up this form of identification is not what humans seem to want to do, not anywhere. We don't even know if it's POSSIBLE for them to do so. Rarely, very rarely, do you see a leftist analysis based upon the concept of "culture", a definition of what this end goal would be like, the "worker way of life". Instead, they act as if the brave new society would be acultural.

Is that possible? There is good reason to believe that the kind of social critter we are has ALWAYS been organized into some culture or other. That humn cultures have existed as long as we have been humans, and quite possibly, even before.

by no trolls - no discussion Wed May 21, 2003 16:12

I would suggest that if we had an indonesian apologist (something along the lines of Avi H) posting comments ad-nauseum about how morally justified indonesia was to commit crimes against humanity then we'd have loads of discussion on the matter.

by Matthew Wed May 21, 2003 16:13

I was pointing out that nation states stand a greater chance of being defended by the international community than stateless national groups. So protesting about aggression against a sovereign state is a LOT more likely to illicit response from a Western government than protesting about aggresion against a stateless nation (like Chechnya or Aceh).

Of course that does not necessarily mean that the international community (ie USA) will intervene to defend the borders of a state, only if it's in their interest, but it's better than nothing. East Timor is a good example of this. ET had a case but was ignored for a long time by the world's states. West Papua is legally (though probably fraudulently) part of Indonesia. Ditto with Aceh.

Conversely, the world community (ie USA) will intervene in internal disputes and nation-build when it's in its interest. e.g. Kosovo and the permanent NATO presence now in the Balkans.

As for Palestine, it is not comparable to Aceh. Aceh is a nation without a state. Palestine is a state without de facto control of its territory. Remember, Palestine has a Permanent Observer Mission at the UN. Aceh does not. Palestine is legally recognised at the UN to the same level as Switzerland was until it became a full member in 2002, and to the same level as the Vatican City right now. It is recognised as a seperate state from Israel. That is why it receives more attention than larger, perhaps more deserving causes (in terms of genocide) like Kurdistan, Chechnya or Aceh.

If there were anti-Aceh-aggression protests the same size as the Iraq ones it's extremely unlikely anything could be done by Western powers because Indonesia is sovereign and more importantly USA et al don't want to see Indonesia break up.

by Boss Wed May 21, 2003 16:29

East Timor = OIL!
Colombia = OIL!
Chechnya = OIL!
Venezuela = OIL!
West Papua = GAS, Copper, Oil, Forests!
Aceh = OIL!
Iraq = OIL!

by Matthew Wed May 21, 2003 16:43

The original question was why aren't people protesting about Aceh. I know my feelings/protests about national independence and state sovereignty have nothing to do with the presence or absence of oil. The presence or absence of oil does, however, affect what powerful states will do, and it's those powerful states we're trying to influence with protests. So lack of protest about Aceh aren't because of warped morality, but because of an understanding of realpolitik.

by Ruairi Wed May 21, 2003 17:26

Personally, I have been doing some activism relating to Aceh but it has been very limited. The realpolitik of activism is that most of us have jobs, debts, committments and about 1000 causes - social, cultural, environmental... - that we are trying to champion. Yes, we must do better. We must do more. But those those who criticise and ask 'what are you doing?', I ask them the same question.

The rebellion in Aceh has been going on for 27 years. From the beginning Indonesia said they would crush all resistance. They have not and will not succeed. Indonesia is very much an article IMF backed state and its house is about to come crumbling down....

by Smith Wed May 21, 2003 17:33

> Human Rights Groups Protest Indonesia's War in Aceh Throughout World
> Demand an End to Human Rights Abuses
>
> May 20, 2003
>
> Protestors around the world are gathering at Indonesia’ s diplomatic offices this week to oppose the launch of a massive Military campaign
in Aceh. In Indonesia’s biggest military operation since the invasion of East Timor in 1975, an estimated 45,000 troops are now in Aceh, on the northern-tip of the island of Sumatra.
>
> Top ranking Indonesian military (TNI) officials have boasted that they > will “crush” the rebel Free Aceh Movement in six months. But the > civilian population will be the hardest hit. The Indonesian government > estimates that the number of refugees in Aceh will grow to 100,000 from > the current 5,000. More than 12,000 people have been killed in the
> almost 27-year old conflict.
>
> In the United States, rights groups will demonstrate at the Indonesian > Embassy in Washington on Wednesday in an event sponsored by Amnesty International USA, the East Timor Action Network, and the Indonesia > Human Rights Network (IHRN). On Friday, demonstrators will gather in New York at Indonesia’s Permanent Mission office to the United Nations
and the UN.
>
> “Indonesia cannot keep Aceh by destroying it”, said Kurt Biddle, Coordinator of the Indonesia Human Rights Network. “This war will
only kill more civilians and strengthen the Acehnese resolve to be independent. Human rights will be the main casualty of this war.”

> Indonesia is currently using U.S.-supplied weaponry and combat aircraft in their war in Aceh. On Monday C-130 Hercules transport planes
dropped hundreds of TNI paratroopers into Aceh and counter-insurgency aircraft, OV-10 Broncos, were used to fire rockets into villages outside of the capital city of Banda Aceh.
>
> Last December, the Indonesian government and the Free Aceh Movement GAM) concluded a landmark accord on the Cessation of Hostilities
> (COHA), which was enthusiastically welcomed by the Acehnese people and led to a dramatic decrease in the number of casualties. The
Indonesian foreign minister has declared the COHA defunct.
>
> In response to these most recent attacks, the Indonesia Human Rights
> Network has renewed its calls to maintain the cut off of U.S. arms sales
> to Indonesia and restore the ban on military training to that
country.
>
> Fueled by Jakarta¹s broken promises and brutal repression by the TNI
and
> Indonesian police, the Acehnese have been fighting for independence since 1976. During Indonesia’s national revolution in 1945, Aceh was
> promised autonomy for its role in fighting the Dutch colonists during Indonesia’s independence struggle in 1945. But Jakarta never fulfilled
> that pledge. Rich in natural gas and other resources, most of Aceh’s wealth flows to multinational corporations and Jakarta without
> benefiting the local people.
>
> The Indonesian government fears that resource-rich Aceh will go the way of East Timor, which voted overwhelmingly for independence in an
> UN-sponsored referendum in 1999 and celebrates one year of independence today.
>
> The Indonesia Human Rights Network (IHRN) is a U.S.-based grassroots organization working to educate and activate the American public and
> influence U.S. foreign policy and nternational economic interests to support democracy, demilitarization, and justice through
accountability and rule of law in Indonesia. We seek to end armed forces repression
in Indonesia by exposing it to international scrutiny. IHRN works with
and advocates on behalf of people throughout the Indonesian archipelago to strengthen civil society. For more information, see the Indonesia
Human Rights Network website, www.indonesianetwork.org
> .
>
> The East Timor Action Network/U.S. (ETAN) supports human dignity for the people of East Timor by advocating for democracy, sustainable
> development, social, legal, and economic justice and human rights, including women’s rights. ETAN, which has 28 local chapters
throughout the U.S., calls for an international tribunal to prosecute crimes against humanity that took place in East Timor since 1975. For
> additional information see ETAN's
> web site (http://www.etan.org).
>
> Locations for demonstrations in the US.
>
> Washington, DC
> Wednesday, May 21
> 12:30 - 1:20 pm
> Indonesian Embassy
> 2020 Massachusetts Ave., NW
>
> New York City
> Friday, May 23
> 10:30am - Noon: Outside the Permanent Mission of Indonesia to
> United Nations
> 325 East 38th Street (between 1st and 2nd Ave)
> Noon - 1:30 pm: Outside the United Nations, 1st Ave between 42nd
> and 43rd
> St.
>
> Kurt Biddle
> Coordinator,
> Indonesia Human Rights Network
> [email protected]
> www.IndonesiaNetwork.org
> P.O. Box 2162
> Berkeley, CA 94702-0162
> USA
> (510) 559-7762 phone
> (561) 760-0456 eFax
>

by Raymond McInerney Wed May 21, 2003 19:24

The first Islamic Kingdom in Aceh was Perlak, established in 804. Under the reign of Sultan Iskandar Muda (1607-36), Aceh was the most powerful state in the region.

Since the death of Sultan Iskandar Thani in 1641, unfortunately, Aceh influence gradually decline. This initiated British and Dutch to occupy the area.

After Indonesia declared its independent in 1945, Aceh became part of this country. Aceh had a big role in building the country. But only eight years after that, Aceh under Teungku Daud Beureueh fight against the "centralized" government. Aceh was immersed into North Sumatra Province. The result, huge protest by Acehnese people against central policy in Jakarta requested Aceh to become a special and autonomy province. This movement was known as DI/TII Aceh.

In 1976 Hasan Tiro declared independent for Aceh. Once again, the government under Soeharto regime face this movement repressively by military approach.

Today, Acehnese people cried for REFERENDUM with two options, still to be part of Indonesia or independent become a free country. The people believe that REFERENDUM is the one and only best solution to solve a long and bloody conflict in Aceh.

by Terry Thu May 22, 2003 17:18

There's a good summary of the attack online at: related link.

by Chekov Fri May 23, 2003 03:48

to have Indonesia's largest natural gas installation, operated by Exxon Mobil. They finance many of the army camps in the area and are directly responsible for many of the massacres.