Colonel Tim Collins accused of serious Geneva breaches

by Little Lord Forthescue Wed May 21, 2003 12:38

An accusation is not the same as a conviction. Or doesn't that matter to any of you?

by Matthew Wed May 21, 2003 12:44

that's why I wrote "accused of" and didn't mention the word "conviction". Or doesn't that matter to you...?

by Matthew Wed May 21, 2003 12:50

about not raising coalition flags on Iraqi soil. The first things the USMC did upon entering Umm Qasr was to raise the stars and stripes. And US troops tried to unfurl the US flag over the Saddam statue in Baghdad before it was toppled by a US tank and "Chalabi supporters"/"random rabble". Several of the incidents where civilians have been shot in Iraq are because Iraqis take umbrage when their flag is lowered on prominent buildings and replaced with that of a foreign imperialist coloniser; and US troops shoot them for showing anger.

by Fergal OB Wed May 21, 2003 14:46

Collins is an officer in the British army, not the USMC, and there is no evidence yet to suggest his troops disobeyed his order.

by Matthew Wed May 21, 2003 15:00

Collins says "we shall not fly OUR flagS". Since the UK only has one flag I can only assume he is speaking of the flags of the UK and other Coalition members, including USA and (hehe) Ethiopia.

by James McKenna Wed May 21, 2003 17:37

It is a high ranking officer in the British army that is the source of this charge. He waited until he was home to swear charges against Tim for a series of offences. Pistol whipping, kicking and torturing prisoners. The USMC are facing a whole other set of torture and mistreatment charges. I know it's easy to be confused with so much war crime!

Nice to see the Troll Brigade is still alive and well on Indymedia , defending all things US/UK.

by Drbinoche Wed May 21, 2003 19:32

As the great Bill Hicks once said, "a flag is piece of cloth" so I don't see why anyone gets annoyed over a bloody flag! Now, on a serious note, all forces have anumber of flags, there are the countries flags, the units badge flags or colours and others. So IF he was talking about it that way, then they could have been discussing anything. Also when he said OUR flags he could have been talking about the units flags, I doubt they were only carryong one flag.

So they rasied a flag so what? Its not like they went in and renamed the place New New York or New London. They went in and flew a flag. Oh good lets get our bloody knickers in a twist and start getting pissed at the people who got rid of the man who wanted either his face up or a bloody flag up all over the fucking place!

Get real!

by Matthew Wed May 21, 2003 20:24

There are quite a number of Iraqis who would have disagreed with your opinions on flags except for the fact that they were shot for protesting by US Army. Replacing Iraqi flags with US flags obviously does matter, because no Iraqi would raise the starts + stripes in his own country. Raising the US flag in Iraq says to the Iraqis "we own you and your land".

by GI Jones Wed May 21, 2003 22:45

Brit RIR officer toff investiaged for war misconduct
by GI Jones Wed, May 21 2003, 9:25pm

Brit RIR officer and gentelman toff Timothy Collins is under military investigation after US officers allegations of brutality and unsporting sadistic bullying of Iraqi civillains. Trust a snobby stuck up toff to abuse his position of power and trust over helpless Iraqi civillians.

US officers and soldiers who served alongside blundering buffon 'nice but dim tim collins', have alleged that toff timothy put the boot into cowering Iraqi deserters and had great fun pistol whipping iraqi civillians and shooting wildly at passing Iraqi civillians. Kind American soldiers were clearly disgusted and appalled at RIR toff timothy's wanton displays of unsporting behaviour towards Iraqi civillians they were supposed to 'liberating'. At least us yanks had the discipline and empathy to treat the liberated iraqi citizens with respect and courtesy, unlike stuck up toff RIR officer Tim who saw the liberation of Iraqis as just another chance to degrade and belittle a people who've suffered so much 'talk about kicking a man when he's down', officer Tim's misbehaviour and lack of self control gave new meaning to this phrase

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COMMENTS

RIR dustbin of brit army
by DEEPCUT Wed, May 21 2003, 9:28pm

So thats why the brits had to leave Basra so suddenly. Thank god for the integrity of Americans soldiers who alerted those in control about Officer Collin's disgraceful behaviour. The RIR are the dustbin of the brit army, other british army divisions hate them, because they take on all manner of scum/losers/druggies/peadophiles/ that aren't tolerated in the mainstream brit army, the real brit army. Thats why they're based in northern ireland in the arsehole of nowhere, we wouldn't have scum like that near the regular brit army, to contaminate us.

by pat c Thu May 22, 2003 12:51

May 22, 2003

Colonel in war crimes inquiry had 'bust up' with US accuser
By Ian Cobain and Michael Evans



A JUNIOR American officer triggered a war crimes investigation into the Iraq war’s most celebrated British soldier.
The officer, thought to be a reservist, has accused Lieutenant Colonel Tim Collins of punching, kicking and threatening Iraqi prisoners of war and of pistol-whipping a prominent local civilian.

The Ministry of Defence said yesterday: “We can confirm that an investigation is being conducted into allegations surrounding a British officer who served in Iraq. We cannot comment further.”

Colonel Collins, 43, who was lauded for his inspirational leadership and his rousing eve-of-war speech, said he had not been told personally about the allegations and had no idea how they had come about. He pledged to restore his good name.

The officer who made the allegations is believed to have been serving with a US team called Anglico which kept Colonel Collins informed of American attacks.

According to British Army sources in Iraq, Colonel Collins and the American had a “bust-up” and the allegations followed soon afterwards. The officer made the allegations to his own commanding officer, who passed them to the British divisional headquarters in southern Iraq. They were then reported to London.

As the investigation continued last night, Colonel Collins’s associates spoke of a colourful and complex man. Some talked admiringly of a caring and highly professional officer; others painted a picture of a man capable of volatility who scared some of those under his command.

It also emerged yesterday that there have been allegations about a “culture of bullying” within his unit, the 1st Battalion, the Royal Irish Regiment. The parents of a teenage soldier who killed himself after accusing officers of being bullies, have said that the colonel failed to protect their son.

The Royal Military Police also investigated an allegation that Colonel Collins physically assaulted the battalion’s padre, but the MoD said that no action was taken and the other officer later left the Army.

Colonel Collins, a Belfast-born father-of-five and devout Presbyterian, came to national attention with his stirring eve-of-war speech urging his men to be “ferocious in battle and magnanimous in victory”. It so moved President Bush that a framed copy now hangs in the Oval Office.

Now, however, he stands accused of breaches of the Army’s rules of engagement, including shooting out the tyres of a civilian’s car when there was no danger to troops, and firing into the ground to intimidate civilians.

The first charge is understood to relate to an incident in which troops were attempting to prevent looting at an oil installation. He appears to have admitted to the second in an interview with the News of the World two weeks ago.

Explaining how he marched into a regional Baath Party headquarters, he said: “Its chief, who was Lord God on High in these parts, is now considering his options in a prisoner-of-war cage. We knew they were threatening people who co-operated with us, so we paid some of them a visit. One man found that a shot through his kitchen floor somehow helped him remember where his weapon was hidden.”

by HMLVF Thu May 22, 2003 21:22

Golly Gosh, poor old Timothy. To understand Timmy's behaviour we must examine the context and circumstances which gave rise to his violent tantrums. During operation Zulu towelheads, Timmy was merely showing off to impress both his own rabble and disobedient willful natives, with his mistimed acts of binky old boy bravado and bullying. Timmy was trying to prove he was Mr big bossman white desert masser, to the natives and also to the low bred rabble he was in charge of. Also we must take into consideration Timothy was away from his little lady wife, so it was lucky the natives were there to take the regular beatings, instead of Timmy's horsy faced wife.

by dt Fri May 23, 2003 16:53 daithit at iol dot ie

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RTE accuse Irish of begrudgery
by dt Fri, May 23 2003, 10:38am
[email protected]

RTE newscaster suggests Irish Begrudgers to blame war war crimes allegations against Tim Collins

This is a letter to RTE with my feelings does anyone know any other addresses this could be sent to?
.................................
Hello,
I am writing in connection with the Lt Tim Collins story. Lt. Tim Collins, whose now famous speech was laced with hollow biblical rhetoric and bombast as he was about to lead the British forces into Iraq. When the news broke on Wednesday concerning the allegations of war crimes against Lt Collins the newsreader on RTE Radio 1, while talking to a British journalist, asked whether the allegations could be attributed to a 'tradition of Irish begrudgery. Even though the allegations and their sources were pretty vague I wrote to the newsdesk at the time explaining that I thought it was an insult for our national broadcaster funded by taxes and TV licences to insult the Irish people in defence of an alleged British War Criminal. Of course the mail was unanswered. Not that I felt more information should be necessary for an apology or redressing the issue but now that there is will we hear an apology?

articles from the guardian online

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0,11816,961963,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0,11816,960903,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0,11816,961079,00.html

previous unanswered e-mail

Hello,
With regard to the reporting of the Lt. Tim Collins war crime allegations on the Radio 1 news;
How dare our national broadcaster even allude to the allegation against the accused Irish-born British Lieutenant as part of the 'tradition of Irish begrudgery'. Does this apply to other unproven or as yet unproven allegations against the British military? This country above all is well placed to know that the words and actions of British military officers are not always compatible.

slán

~daithí

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COMMENTS

dt
by pat c Fri, May 23 2003, 10:54am

he was a Lieutenant-Colonel (LtCol) at the time not a Lt. (since promoted to Colonel) Its important to get these details right, otherwise they will claim you may have misheard the remrks.

lapdog
by sarah Fri, May 23 2003, 11:27am
[email protected]

Pat is right, attention to detail is always good but I'm sure RTE keep a recorded archive of broadcasts for a certain period of time due to libel and defamation risks. However they will probably choose to ignore the mail... The Tim Collins story is quite a blow to Hiberno West Britain; before the war a section of the Irish community, especially the aspirational middle classes were very proud of his verbose speech and played up his Irishness as much as possible. He is an imperialists lapdog and no more, it is a great shame that even a section of us, the brutally colonised Irish, would try and claim him for our own instead of disowning him as a criminal (and i mean before the war).

lapdog
by sarah Fri, May 23 2003, 11:32am
[email protected]

Pat is right, attention to detail is always good but I'm sure RTE keep a recorded archive of broadcasts for a certain period of time due to libel and defamation risks. However they will probably choose to ignore the mail... The Tim Collins story is quite a blow to Hiberno West Britain; before the war a section of the Irish community, especially the aspirational middle classes were very proud of his verbose speech and played up his Irishness as much as possible. He is an imperialists lapdog and no more, it is a great shame that even a section of us, the brutally colonised Irish, would try and claim him for our own instead of disowning him as a criminal (and i mean before the war).

who?
by ytsurc Fri, May 23 2003, 11:36am
[email protected]

any chance of giving the name of this (alleged)RTE reporter??

who
by dt Fri, May 23 2003, 11:43am

dunno who the reporter was, but the report was on the one o clock news on 21/05/03. , tis easy to find out i presume, the other reporter was from 'the sun' as far as i can remember, even he was a bit surprised by the suggested source of the allegations and said he didn't know where they came from.

who
by dt Fri, May 23 2003, 11:44am

dunno who the reporter was, but the report was on the one o clock news on 21/05/03. , tis easy to find out i presume, the other reporter was from 'the sun' as far as i can remember, even he was a bit surprised by the suggested source of the allegations and said he didn't know where they came from.

KENYA
by ytsurc Fri, May 23 2003, 11:50am

The Brits have also just launched an investigation in Kenya due to the imminent filing of civil action against the Ministry of Defence for the suffering of Kenyan women due to 20 years of rape by British soldiers in the villages surrounding the Archers Post training ground in northern Kenya. This involves at least 400 individuals cases of rape and gang rape.

Same regiment
by Six counties Fri, May 23 2003, 1:55pm

Sure haven't people in the six counties been protesting about the same behaviour of the UDR / RIR in the six counties for years. Did we really expect this fine regiment to act any differently in Iraq?
Its about time that this collection of scumbags are exposed for what they really are!

point
by sacco venzetti Fri, May 23 2003, 2:28pm

i think the point here is not they were scumbags but that the national broadcasters would slur the Irish people in favour of a British soldier accused of war crimes

Confusion
by LLF Fri, May 23 2003, 2:36pm

So many people here confuse an accusation with a conviction. Also, there is so much innate prejudice against the British, it is verging on racism.

what??
by dt Fri, May 23 2003, 3:03pm

I agree with LLF on the difference between certain words. This however has no bearing on the journailsts comments whatsoever. And on the basis of your point; RTE were not slow (on several shows) to commend the hollow speech, (and I thought it hollow at the time as would anybody with any degree of objectivity and a megre knowledge of the motives and nature of modern war). Few questioned the speech with all its biblical references , few sought to find out about the man who wrote the speech and what was and the history of the regiment, yet with all this information missing the speech was still read and lauded. My point is that the media were too quick to embrace the speech initilly and this journalist was too quick to deflect the allegations onto some insecurity in the Irish nation.
And a further point worth making is that Col. Collins is being investigated by the MOD.. maybe a Garda Complaints board scenario here? Also the establishment granted Kissinger a Nobel peace prize while many NGO's were calling for charges of war crimes.... , so even if guilty allegations are the nearest the Western Masters of War get to justice so they should be broadcast.

by Andre Fri May 23, 2003 16:56

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More allegations against Timothy Collins
by Andre Fri, May 23 2003, 8:23am

The MOD has confirmed that RIR officer toff Timmy Collins is currently the subject of two military investigations, into the mysterious apparent suicide of East belfast soldier Paul Cochrane, when Timothy and the RIR were based at holywood barracks and also into allegations of mistreatment of iraqi civillians and POW's.

Timmy collins was the officer in command of the RIR when under his command, soldier Paul Cochrane died in an apparent suicide. The east belfast man's parents have been campaigning for 2 years to get the MOD to investigate the circumstances surrounding and leading up to Paul's mysterious suicide. Paul phoned his parents just before the suicide, and discussed with them his concerns about harrassment and intimidation by high ranking RIR soldiers. Shortly after this phonecall Paul allegedly commited suicide. The PUP have been calling for an inquiry into Paul Cochrane's suicide and the suicide of other soldiers.

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COMMENTS

standard mUrDeRer behaviour
by James McKenna Fri, May 23 2003, 9:58am

The MOD are also investigating the unique "military environment" of Col Collins RIR regiment . That is code for a clique or gang controlling things apart from established military command and army rules.

Before it's "makeover" the RIR was the Ulster Defence Regiment and many nationalists in the north experienced the unique "military environment" of the UDR/RIR in the same way as the occupied people of Iraq feel it today.

It was common for UDR patrols to pistol-whip, kick punch and shoot around civilians. They even got involved in hands-on loyalist killings on their time-off and on their time-on covered for their paramilitary friends.

You couldn't talk about it at the time and the press didn't report it as this was seen as propaganda, "giving succour to terrorists". This story will probably not be reported in the Iraqi media for the same reason. Is Indymedia Baghdad still down due to hackers?

exclusive cliques of shite
by grease my palm Fri, May 23 2003, 10:20am

There appears to be an abundance of toffy nosed stuck up binky old boy cliques in Ulster. Little pockets of authotarian tinpot toffs who exist solely to line each others pockets, or self congragulate each other for being toffy nosed stuck up slimy underhand turds, having a jolly good larf at the natives.

by foot in mouth Fri May 23, 2003 22:24

Colonel mustard/Tim (but dim) Collins puts his side of the story on uk.indymedia.org, apparently an American major was handing out sweeties to iraqi kids!! of all things and Timmy took the hump, pulling rank and exclaiming 'Do you know who I am!!'. Thanks for giving us your side of the story Timmy and putting your club foot in it once again. The post gives us an insight into what a total blundering buffoon you are.

by binky old boy Fri May 23, 2003 22:27

Thanks for giving your side of the story Ramrod/Timothy collins. Gosh golly if I was you, I'd put that slovenly ill disciplined yanky up against the wall and give him a jolly good trashing/pistol whipping as well for his brazen insolence. A bit like the trashing you gave those johnny foreigner Iraqis in their own country.

American officers giving cheek to a british officer!! espeacially a brit officer of your social background and status Timothy. We can't have that now can we, seeing as us brits are clearly a superior race of people in every possible way. We british can't have low bred unrefined mongrel americans telling us what to do, interfering with us having fun with the natives. Well really, if I was in Timothy collins position, I'd go ahead and give those disobedient Iraqis an even bigger trashing, just to spite those interfering Americans.

Timothy was clearly sending out a message to the native peasants and his own rabble, to let these unruly oiks know just who was the big desert bossman in Iraq, and it certainly wasn't a bunch of gum chewing yanky mongrels.

by white hunter, black heart Fri May 23, 2003 23:41

My brother in law served at holywood barracks along with 'toff indiana jones wannabe' Timothy 'darling' Collins. Bearing in mind my brother in law was only a sargent, he still got to verbally and physically assault many of the rookie soldiers in his charge. He enjoyed doing this and would boast to us girls about everything he got up to, such as thumping and beating recruits. He seemed to take pleasure in recounting acts of cruelty and sadism to new recruits. I suppose he thought we would be impressed with his sickening sadistic hard man antics. In actual fact we use to cringe and feel physically sick thinking, the man was a low life pyschotic animal. He also use to pistol whip his wife, with his personal issue weapon, maybe its standard training at the RIR to pistol whip the fairer sex. If he was only a sargent and doing this unhindered you can bet toff Timothy Collins approved it and was probably doing worse.

by LLF Sat May 24, 2003 06:28

The people who are like that are the majority of contributors to this thread. Do any of you ever have anything positive to say about the English, or are you still living in a kind of 1919 time-warp? If so, it shows how narrow-minded and prejudiced you are. People who bad-mouth the Irish are generally rightly slapped down in Britain these days: I can't see evidence of equivalent anti-racism in relation to the English.

by head to my toe Sat May 24, 2003 20:40

In everday civillian life we have the opportunity to retaliate and defend ourselves when physically abused or bullied. In the confined insular world of the army, if you are being bullied, harrassed, verbally, physically or sexually assaulted by an officer, you cannot retaliate, officers pull ranks. Paul Cochrane found himself in this situation, and turned to Col collins for help, a few weeks later Paul was dead. The terms toff, stuck up refer to the officer class not to the english. You are simply offended because you don't want the rich who populate the officer social class maligned. So it is not a racial slur but a accurate description of the binky old boy stiff upper lip underhand hypocrites officer social set.

by mick Sun May 25, 2003 15:45

I think you were the first person to mention English people on this thread.

by rooster Sat May 28, 2005 18:03

Radio Ulster talkback programme interview with Tim Collins, mentions the Irish in the British Army, the Iraq campaign and Sierra Leone among others.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/netw...l?ulster/tb_fri

by Eamon A Chnoic Thu Sep 15, 2005 17:19

This Queen lover was interviewed/sychophanted by Plank Kenny on the Latelate show a while back where Collins referred to the elements of the press he took to court over war crimes allegations as "insects".

He also drivellled lovingly about "us Paddys" and how much of one he was (i.e; an Uncle Paddy as opposed to Uncle Tom). During the course of the lovein, Collins referred to the allegations and proudly admitted that he had assaulted an Iraqi officer personally.

The war criminal claimed that he had saved many innocent Iraqis by his action (of course he did) and that it was mano-a-mano. Now take away the thin layer of spin this torturing scumbag put on events and it is pretty obvious that he attacked an prisoner of war who certainly been already brutalised and beaten by other Brits by the time he landed in Collins crazed hands.

A true PaddyBrit.

by Darragh Thu Sep 15, 2005 17:40 darragh25 at hotmail dot com

Means fuck all really when the whole war was illegal and immoral! The fact that the war was illegal reduces him to a role of a spin doctor. His words make him look incredibly stupid when we all know now that the war in Iraq was nothing to do with liberation, it was to do with oil and contracts to rebuild the place.

Other thing I think is worth considering, is that the US and UK Miltary need to engage in a conflict every 5-10 years, so that their armies do not become unfamilar with battle conditions, and so they don't end up with a generation of soldiers and officers who are completely unfamilar with being in battle...

by rooster Thu Sep 15, 2005 19:10

pretty obvious that he attacked an prisoner of war

-to be given prosoner of war status you must surrender yourself and all wepons under your command, this baathist prock did not do that because after Tim gave him a slap a couple of AK's magically turned up.


Means fuck all really when the whole war was illegal and immoral! The fact that the war was illegal reduces him to a role of a spin doctor

-the legality of the war is not relevant, you have obviously never served in a uniform, as a serviceman he would go where his superiors sent him, he does not have the ability to say,

"oh actually I don't think this war is legal so if you don't mind I'll sit this one out"

by Barry Thu Sep 15, 2005 21:42

Its called being a concientious objector and theres nothing dishonourable about it if the war of occupation your fighting was launched by proven lies and against international law .

A pity Collins didnt stay on in Iraq a while longer , that way Twat Kenny wouldnt have fawned and slobbered all over the toerag trying to make him a hero . And thered be a fair chance an Iraqi would get him , and do him in the fecker .

by rooster Thu Sep 15, 2005 22:38

-if you were one of those you would'nt have joined the armed forces in the first place.

the war of occupation your fighting was launched by proven lies and against international law

-that was not proven until after the war had ended