Letter in Todays Irish Times

by Phuq Hedd Thu May 16, 2002 22:16

sounds like a good idea. I'm totally in favour of the idea of affinity groups looking after each other.

by Joe Sheehan Thu May 16, 2002 10:19 jsheehan at subdimension dot com

Have been talking about this with friends in the last few days, the general idea was that while stewards might mark themselves out to the cops as targets, our idea would be that people form up in "afininty groups" idea, go with a group and keep an eye on those in your group during the protest.
We have to take care of each other!!

by Phuq Hedd Wed May 15, 2002 17:22

1. "neogeo" has IMHO correctly identified the letter as being a troll. It's a good one.

2 There were no stewards on Monday and the only violence came from the police. The logical conclusion is to remove the police from peaceful protests.

3. The call for stewarding implies that we accept unfocussed, unaccountable police violence directed randomly toward the crowd.

It is the 3rd point especially that I find disturbing. It is reminiscent of the reaction of someone that has been trained to accept group guilt. I don't accept that even if someone else in the crowd were to go crazy and assault a garda that that gives the Gardai the right to beat the crap out of the crowd. There is no guilt by association or conspiracy by standing next to.

What's next? Handing over "terror suspects" to the Bush regime because "either you're with us or against us"?

by ciara Wed May 15, 2002 17:06

Of course anyone should write a letter responding to this drivvel if they can, however, I feel that the articles written by so-called reputable journalists in this weeks sunday indo far outweigh the prejudices conveyed through this letter. Also letters to the editor only serve to voince an opinion, often if it is a journalist, people take what they write to be fact. Anyone who has time should also write to the sunday indo.

by badman Wed May 15, 2002 16:30

Certainly it is important to try to minimise the potential risk to protestors, but the police make this difficult to do. Firstly they immediately arrest anybody they can identify as 'ringleaders' which obviously makes it a difficult task to effectively coordinate a protest.

However, the real problem is that the question of whether there is violence or not is not in the hands of the protestors. If the police choose to attack a demonstration, there is nothing that the organisers can do to protect peaceful protestors from violent assault. In this case the only way to protect the innocent from harm would be to abandon any form of direct action altogether and only engage in forms of protest that are acceptable to the authorities. Forms of protest that are acceptable to the authorities are naturally those forms of protest that are utterly impotent.

by Think twice not knee jerk Wed May 15, 2002 13:32

Tom Cahill makes some fair points that it would do good to listen to for future protests. There *is* a difference between peaceful protests and violent protests, and between peaceful protesters and violent ones who hijack the protest. The case of the RTS protest and police violence may not fall into this however it does not invalidate his point. You have to ensure that those who particpate in protests you organise do not get hurt. You have to have stewards who keep an eye out for troublemakers and isolate them. You DO have to communitcate with the police so as their presence is a help to the protest and an advantage, and not hostile. You have a responsibilty to ensure the safety of the people you gather together and Tom Cahill is right to note that when crowds get out of hand down to poor management or a handful of disrupters hijacking the event, the police *will* step in. That is after all their job. It is YOUR job to make sure that either they do not have to, or that if they do, they can easily isolate the troublemakers without attacking everyone.

Learn from the RTS protest! Cahill is also speaking (it seems to me) of protests he was active in the 60's in the US - he knows what he is talking about and while his views may have been tempered with his age, you can take your youthful outlook and apply his lessons to what you are doing now.

TAKE CARE OF YOUR PEOPLE!

by saortinn Wed May 15, 2002 12:29

I've also written a letter to the times. Anyone with time should.

by eejit Wed May 15, 2002 11:39

Well, it might be jumping the gun a bit saying that it was a Garda writing the letter, but...

...If he's a veteran civil rights protester, then he's more than likely seen police beat them without provocation

...If he was present on Monday, he would have seen -innocent- bystanders, women and teenagers getting beaten

...There's no Tom Cahill from Dublin 2 in the phone book (Yeh,he might be ex directory, but still)

by Steve McFarlane Wed May 15, 2002 11:35 stevemcf at hotmail dot com

Hi,

I sent in a letter to the Ed today in reply to this.

Steve

by mick lambe - PARIAH - People Against Racism In Aboriginal Homelands Wed May 15, 2002 11:16 pariahnt at yahoo dot com Where the Police are now less inclined to violence

...the letter from a purported civil rights veteran is unworthy of remark.

Mere shite from a toerag.

This Police brutality is going on everywhere but I was appalled by the reports I received.

The Gardai obviously have no respect for the Law they claim to enforce. Their role as State paramilitary thugs is apparent.

Use THEIR laws against them. Futile I know, but a means of getting facts on the Public Record.

Rebel.

You need no advice from us on NV rebellion.

Our sympathy to the victims and our best wishes to all involved in your struggle.

PARIAH - People Against Racism In Aboriginal Homelands (and) NAP - Network Against Prohibition -- Northern Territory, Australia.

Solidarity

by neogeo Wed May 15, 2002 11:04

There's some classic trollish elements employed here and I'm surprised the Irish Times didn't spot it.

"Can you imagine the public outcry if the guards had jeered and taunted the poor protesters in the same way?" - Well, no they just beat them about instead??

Anyway, if he's a vetran of anything it's probably the alt.troll newsgroup.

by saortinn Wed May 15, 2002 10:38

a 'veteran' of civil rights marches who advocates police betaing people about the head for proximity to others who were 'taunting' police ; surely a wind up?