Suicide Terrorism comes to the British Isles

by Salah Fri May 09, 2003 14:16

I wonder will they demolish ther homes?

Funny how British authorities dont react to
the murder of ther own citizens by Israeli occupying forces as decisively.

May all who have been murdered see Justice...

by pat c Fri May 09, 2003 14:21

Are you sure these 3 people werent blown up by explosives they were preparing? Thats an excuse thats often used by the I"D"F when they blow up palestinians.

by Avi H. Fri May 09, 2003 14:26

It begs the question whether Islamic terrorists could be recruited in Ireland. In principle, I don't see why not, although the Muslim population in Ireland, who would by definition be the only people susceptible to such recruitment, is much smaller.

by Cato Fri May 09, 2003 14:34

That Jewish Terrorists are recruited in Ireland. David Lass is the local Mossad recruitment officer.

by Avi H. Fri May 09, 2003 14:37

Wrong, wrong, wrong - Couldn't be more wrong, actually!

by Salah Fri May 09, 2003 14:37

... by definition Muslims being ‘all terrorists’?

by MG Fri May 09, 2003 14:45

Or maybe David Lass really is our own Mossad prick in residence. When you and your Zionist buddies deny something, 99 times out of 100 it means it is true...

by Salah Fri May 09, 2003 14:47

‘65% of the 520 (children’s schoolbooks published after 1967) refer to Arabs as violent; 52% as evil; 37% as liars; 31% as greedy; 28% as two-faced; 27% as traitors etc.

’25% of the children described the ‘Arab’ as a murderer, one who kidnaps children, a criminal and a terrorist. 80% said they saw an Arab as someone dirty with a terrifying face’

The above quotes where taken from a report, titled ‘Israeli Textbooks and Children’s Literature Promote Racism and Hatred Towards Palestinians and Arabs’ by a freelance journalist Maureen Meehan dated September 1999.

And then they're kids are sent into the West Bank and Gaza with no accountability. Thats how to breed terrorism!

by Avi H. Fri May 09, 2003 14:49

Here, try this syllogistic logic:

1) All Islamic terrorists are muslims
2) Not all muslims are Islamic terrorists

by damnbutter Fri May 09, 2003 15:29

Fuck you and your "British Isles" bullshit. Then again I suppose an eager pro-imperial lickspittle like you finds much to admire in the bankrupt British empire mindset. "Britain" was a fiction created in the spirit of imperial unity, which in practice meant ruthlessly crushing native cultures and labelling opponents as criminals or terrorists. A bit like the filthy mindset at work in the likes of war criminals like Sharon

by Avi H. Fri May 09, 2003 16:10

Why don't you just bark instead of using human language? There would be no loss of meaning and it would have greater effect.

by Damnbutter Fri May 09, 2003 16:12

but it's really a geographical term. I do agree that "British nationalism" is something false which never existed. Thankfully English nationalism is on the rise and the UK is on the way to breaking up now that all countries concerned are in the EU.

by damnbutter Fri May 09, 2003 16:32

Calling me a dog you sneering dickhead. Then again I suppose you often seek to deny political opponents their humanity.

by iosaf ipsiphi O'as if Fri May 09, 2003 16:32

he is not the Mossad recruitment agent.
if you go to the link provied you will see that Lass of David is a chestnut filly mare, born in 1985 teh only surviving offspring of the David Lass horse a prizewinning stallion who bred succsefully with Mares from places as diverse as Kildare and Quatar.

as for sylogistic logic?
that is silly term.
things are either sylogisitic or logical.
they can not be both.

Islamic extremism can not be readily thought to find succesful recruitment in Ireland (either states) at the present time.
There are several good reasons for this:

1. No iman deemed to be either "extremist" or "fundemental" has preached at an Irish Islamic community lace of worship.

2. There are no support groups associated with Islamic fundementalist groupings.

3. I say so.

4. No member of AlQaeda or associated religious groupings have been reported to have visited Ireland.

5. If they had, you would have heard about it.

????????????????????????????????????????????????
¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿
ask O'asif
????????????????????????????????????????????????
¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿

Mossad Recruitment.

This peaked during the period immediately after WW2 and the three years of the foundation of the state of Israel. Recruited were mostly volunteers who had been contactyed through zionist organisations, repatriation organisations, and Holocaust survivor networks. Most recruited members of the extended Mossad network never knew active service and were designated "sleepers". Several "sleepers" were activated in support of Mossad excution of arrest warrents arising from Weisenthal's war crime investigations.

Mossad was heavily restructured in the mid 1960s and again in the 1990s. It is unusual in "desighnated friendly" states for the contact it maintains with the US intelligence agencies.

It is much malinged and is presently undergoing a crises of faith in the "Atlantic RElationship" perhaps arising from certain paranoi in the wake of the last shuttle disaster when Mossad lost one of its key aviation officers under doubtful circumstances.

Ireland was suspected of harbouring several Nazi fugitives in the post war period (WW2) files on these were kept by US naval inteligence for their contribution to the "paperclips" scandal, the SSI unit of British inteligence though suffered a shortfall of intelligence on these suspects and in the "pre-MI5/MI6" phase information sharing did not occur, this allowed the development of the "Blue streak" project by London, with the oddity of several intelligence groupings searching for the same people all of whom had eafely dound new homes without morgages in California.

Avi?
if you are geniune what does tsaddigimmelhe mean?
shalom.
saleem.
do not be paranoid.

by Cato Fri May 09, 2003 16:45

Is an Israeli Intelligence asset of long standing. He works in TCD Libraries and is secretary of the Irish Israeli Friendship Society.

His more Esoteric interests includes being secretary of the Bram Stoker Society (Zionist Vampires!) anmd he used to be sec of TCD Science Fiction Soc.

by Avi H. Fri May 09, 2003 16:56

It's never who you think it is, believe me. 'Nuff said.

by iosaf ipsiphi O asif - who used be Pres. of TCD arcane Knowledge Soc. (but it didn't get recognised) Fri May 09, 2003 16:57

I psi phi
can also be pronounced "sci fi".
but i don't like that one.
¿
more on Mossad.

what do say if they recruit you.

"no thank you"

this works for all secret services except the type that brainwash you inside darkened mountain caverns, or breed you on special farms.

remember to be insistent.
It is sometimes an idea to continue with the educational perks, such as an "A" or a "first" on your papers essays and library trolling.
If the SSI unit which is recruiting you allows you excess to large quantities of hard currency (but not fake as often is the case with BritHun units) you may like to "stay in the fold" after your university education is over.

Muslims of Ireland are an ethnic minority that are subject to much malignant rumour.

WE MUST DO OUR BEST TO STOP THIS:

there are very few reasons why members of AlQaeda would set up in Ireland.
and there are many really really good ones why they wouldn't.
To suggest that there is a likelyhood of such a thing occuring is "·shite·"¿
it is a lie.
now stop this.
Muslims are part of the Irish society we are all building for the 21st century and they don't need these racist slurs.
or else I shall publish online all the reasons why recruitment for AlQaeda and Mossad is a bad idea in Ireland¿

by Avi H. Fri May 09, 2003 17:06

British Isles: when I last looked the people who live there who call them that outnumbered the people who lived there who might or might not call them that in the following way: 60 million to 3.5 million. However, let's call them something else: 'The islands that are not the British Isles but are also not any other islands, either': bit of a mouthful, though.

In the same vein, what is the language commonly in everyday use by 99.9% of people in the Republic? Is it a) Irish or b) English or c) a language which could be either Irish or English but which for reasons of hurt pride or just plain xenophobia we had better call something else, like, say, 'pie n' chips'?

by G-Locus Fri May 09, 2003 17:06

Also: elected to the ICCL (Irish council for civil liberties) Executive Committee for 1997-98,
and Convenor of ICCL censorship sub-committee
as well as chairman of the irish association of non-smokers.
So what i hear you ask...

by G-locus Fri May 09, 2003 17:10

Avi , what the fuck are you shitin on about?
and what *does* tsaddigimmelhe mean?
.answer the man..

by Mike Fri May 09, 2003 17:17 stepbystepfarm at shaysnet dot com

That we are NOT getting anything like a true picture of what is going on over there. Please don't take my word for it, check it out for yourselves (by referencing a "local" news wire), but there is a great deal more "action" than gets reported here and it is NOT all that one sided.

a) From the Palestinian side -- reports tend to be of Israeli actions counting "woundeds". Attacks on Israleis are reported only if successful. Thus you DON'T hear reports of "molotive coctail thrown at passing Israeli APC misses and hits following Palestinian car" or "mortar rounds fired but missed".

b) From the Israeli side -- reports of attacks by Palestinians only if resulting in (Israeli) fatalities or serious injuries. You don't hear of "car bomb tries to ram APC but bounces off and explodes against building". You don't hear "Palestinian woman pulls a knife and tries to stab IDF soldier but he disarms her". Or shots fired but nobody hit.

In other words, all the FAILED suicide attacks, all the FAILED non-suicide attacks don't make it to the "international news" level. Likewise all the Israeli incursions, etc. that DON'T kill any Palestinians. What I'm saying is that we are only hearing about maybe 10% I don't think this is a matter of anybody trying to hide the truth but simply that what is routine isn't seen as major news.

Like I said, don't take my word for it. Pick any day and tote up the "actions". Some of the Israeli "wires" provide English headlines and they do not appear shy about reporting Israeli actions against the Palestinians (after all, intended for LOCAL consumption and THEY don't feel about it the same way we do).

by Gaillimhed Fri May 09, 2003 17:19

the arts of digression:
here we have a perfect example of Avis political tactics.
he wont engage questions and to divert attention attempts to provoke a different argument by touching nerves.
But Avi, you are so like your adversaries here on this site, youre ADDICTED, you love this shite-stirring and mud-slinging, and wild horses couldnt pull you away (for long).

by Pat C Fri May 09, 2003 17:21

"by iosaf ipsiphi O asif - who used be Pres. of TCD arcane Knowledge Soc. (but it didn't get recognised"

There was a TCD Fortean Society for a few years. Not sure if its still on the go.

David Lass is a FANATICAL anti smoker. Now that I've given up the noxious weed, I'm in total agreement with him on that issue.

Hes also pro-choice that with his interest in SF and Vampires shows that he does have his good side.

by kokomero Fri May 09, 2003 17:21

IMC we are waiting to see if you are consistent in respect of pro-Israeli posts or not when compared with other groups?

Avi's post should be added as a comment to the previous mail to which it is undoubtedly a reaction.

As you have said numerous times in the past this sort of queue jumping pushes local news off the newswire.

Keep your priorities!

by kokomero Fri May 09, 2003 17:33

120 Christian Homes In Jerusalem Area To Be Demolished By Israeli Soldiers
by Salah Afifi - Ireland Palestine Solidarity Movement Fri, May 9 2003, 8:16am
phone: 01 6770253
Tuesday May 06, 2003
120 Christian Homes In Jerusalem Area To Be Demolished By Israeli Soldiers. Reported by the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, [email protected] PO Box 2030 Jerusalem 91020, Israel

The new homes were built by a group of limited income Palestinian Christian families who banded together as the Arab Orthodox Housing Project to build a new life. They obtained a 99-year lease from their Church, the Greek Orthodox Church, 22 years ago and then began the agonizing process of organizing and saving enough money to start construction. Thanks to Israel and our country's support of their policies, Christians are becoming an 'endangered species' in the Holyland. Right Wing Conservative Christians here in the U.S. actually help make this happen by supporting Ariel Sharon.

Beit Sahour, West Bank October 6, 2002

Israeli courts have upheld an Israeli Army order to demolish 120 newly built Palestinian homes in Beit Sahour, a Palestinian town adjacent to Bethlehem. Residents today demonstrated against the order and launched an international campaign to save their homes.

The new homes were built by a group of limited income Palestinian Christian families who banded together as the Arab Orthodox Housing Project to build a new life. They obtained a 99-year lease from their Church, the Greek Orthodox Church, 22 years ago and then began the agonizing process of organizing and saving enough money to start construction.

"We were renters for 40 years," Dalal Awad, a mother of five told me. "We saved for 22 years and built this home with our neighbors. It cost $42,000. We built it with our hearts, our own labor. Now the Israelis want to kill our dream."

A year ago the first families moved in, even though Israel refused to provide electricity and the road to the homes was not completed. More than 40 families now live there. The entire project will house 850 people.

Hanan Bannourah, her father, 82, and her mother, 78, settled in March 2002, as did her brother's family of seven in a neighboring unit. "The Israelis bulldozed our first home in 1991. We saved and saved to build our new home." Then, at the end of May, Israeli police and soldiers told them they planned to destroy it.

Israeli courts recently rejected the residents' appeal. Now they will take the case before the Israeli Supreme Court.

"Israel wants to protect their settlers just over the hill [in Har Homa] says Ms. Bannourah. "They are trying to surround Bethlehem with their new settlements, and to cut it off from Jerusalem. They are trying to take over all of Palestine."

A new Israeli bypass road is being built to Har Homa that will surround and then cut right through Beit Sahour. Har Homa will house 30,000 Israeli Jewish settlers. Beit Sahour consists of Christians and Moslems living side by side, resisting the Israeli military occupation.

According to the Oslo Agreement, Beit Sahour is part of Area B, which means it is supposed to be under joint control of Israel and the Palestinian Authority. The municipality is supposed to have control over land use.

The Arab Orthodox Housing Project received permits from Beit Sahour to build, and was on the verge of completing the entire project when Israel sent its demolition order. Suddenly Israel claimed the land is in Area C and therefore completely under its control.

No one knows when the Israeli Army plans to destroy the homes. But the residents are not waiting.

"We know that when Israel decrees an order they do not care whether families will be made homeless." To fight, the families have launched an international information campaign to save their homes. They plan to march and organize a hunger strike.

"If necessary, I will build a tent here. Our dream will not die. I am not leaving," says Ms. Bannourah.

related link: www.supportpalestine.org

add your comments

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENTS
correction
by Salah Afifi Fri, May 9 2003, 8:18am

Did not write article as stated.

Is it just me....
by Josef Fri, May 9 2003, 10:46am

or does anyone else find the whole Israel/Palestine thing boring? it's just the same old tit for tat cycle we've seen in Norn Iron for years.

Boring!

I find it quite interesting actually, Josef...
by MG Fri, May 9 2003, 10:58am

... as do most of the people I know.

Crackdown on ISM
by publo Fri, May 9 2003, 2:20pm

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/291714.html

Report of a raid earlier today on ISM office in Bethlehem

Oh good!
by Josef Fri, May 9 2003, 3:15pm

Those so-called do-gooders are doing nothing but stirring up anti-western hatred.

Israel forces international observers to sign their own death warrants
by kokomero Fri, May 9 2003, 4:30pm

Since yesterday the Israeli occupation forces in Palestine have been forcing foreigners entering the Gaza Strip to sign waivers stating that they are not peace activists and absolving the army from responsibility if it shoots them.

This comes hard on the heels of the autopsy of James Miller, a cameraman killed by the IDF, showed he was killed by an Israeli bullet.

The IDF and Israel want to hide the genocide against Palestinians from world opinion, shame on them and their Zionist excusers!

related link: www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,952258,00.html

by iosaf-ipsiphi-o asif-sofia-sci fi-phi-psi-egotist Fri May 09, 2003 17:36

link to article by me on islamic extremist threat potential.

Pat! the arcane knowledge society only got through 89-90. same time as the Peace and Love soc. neither were recognised, Arcane Know. saw Jim Clarke of Belfast, not the SF one, another eng. lit. student who went on to become a fairly good commercially published writer and myself and Caitriona team up to present "arcane" info with oddles of opium smoking and Qabalistic stuff.

In those years I did two interview on behalf of Arcane Know with Trinity News, and In Dublin.
Both were silly but silly, teenage dreams of Crowley and an understanding of synchronicy without the "jargon" which emerged later in chaos studies. (TCD Maths Soc 1996 lecture series got really spooky interesting).
The interview with In Dublin focussed on the Freemasons and the journalist twisted everything I said, so I never gave commercial interviews again.

At that time I used think much of the conduits, assets and recruitment officers of TCD it surprised me that so many people managed to get out of the place without an intelligence contact hanging over their careers for evermore.

I wrote about that and all involved who are now safely "dead" in my first book.hmmm,. sentimentality. Avi is an asshole.

Muslims and Jews must be made welcome in Ireland as citizens of a modern society.
so less of the racist bullshit.
anyway this is now chatroom site, what we do with shite, so how is everyone?
perhaps the older members could entertain the others with "recruitment" moments from their university careers?

".....have you ever thought of serving your country in some way?" [which is how Mr Nice put it, strange thing is his daughter reports the same question being put to her at Oxford, after MI6 had contributed to her dad being banged up illegaly for 8 years by the DEA".

Military intelligence..."a contradiction in terms"
(Groucho Marx)

by iosaf ipsiphi oasif Fri May 09, 2003 17:41

but this was my first piece on IMC eire.

by Palmiro Togliatti Fri May 09, 2003 19:25

Why should we be interested in this? Is this a British Isle? I thought we were in Ireland.

by Maubere Fri May 09, 2003 22:59

1st of all, "British Isles" is not just a geographical term, its a political term which claims that Ireland is part of the "British" nation. Greece was once a part of the Turkish Empire, should we refer to Greek people as Turks? I dont think so.
"British"=English people and sad uncle tom fools who want to be english.

2nd, Avi what do you think of Isreali crowds chanting "Death to the Arabs", is this not racism? I've asked you this twice before and you haven't answered

3rd Israelis always say they are afraid the Arabs will drive then into the sea. Its strange that they have no problem in driving the Arabs into the desert.

by as jeeves Fri May 09, 2003 23:50

The question arises...
by Avi H. Fri, May 9 2003, 1:26pm
It begs the question whether Islamic terrorists could be recruited in Ireland. In principle, I don't see why not ...

Yes indeed Avi why not ... and having read the shite you spout I would say that you are A1 advertising material for the recruiters ...
If you think that the Irish authorities give a shite one way or the other wake up and smell the coffee ... maybe the PLO-friendly wing of the IRA could organise training courses ....
But let's get real: do you think anyone in Ireland gives a f**k .....?

by Avi H. Sat May 10, 2003 10:35

Don't care was made to care.

by Avi H. Sat May 10, 2003 11:11

1) British Isles - Give me a break, please! There isn't an atlas published in English (apart from Irish school atlases) that don't refer to them as that. As always, with language, if the majority use a term, that makes it standard. So frickin' what? Get over it.

2) Israelis chanting 'Death to Arabs'. It is important to keep this in perspective: it pretty much only ever happens when people gather at the site of a terrorist atrocity. Those people have witnessed the aftermath and are in deep shock. Actually, it's a quite understandable reaction. If you trying to insinuate that it's the Israelis have a hate culture against Arabs, no way: it's the opposite that is true: Israel is an open, democratic society with nearly a million Arabs with full citizenship. Arab countries on the other hand, without exception, engage in the most appalling anti-Semitic rhetoric, having hounded their Jews out of their lands and depriving them of citizenship. (In Saudi, for example, it's ILLEGAL to be a Jew.)

Moreover, if you actually knew anything accurate about Israel, which you don't, you would know that Jews have sought refuge in virtually every country in the world, you can walk down the street in Tel Aviv and hear twenty different languages spoken in twenty years; not only, that but there are white Jews and black (and I mean, very black) Jews and every shade in between. There is no question of it being a racist society, especially as we are the world's most universally persecuted people.

3) In the 1930's, nobody ever talked about the 'Palestinians' as Arabs. That was the name for the Jews in this region. In fact, the (Manchester) Guardian wrote then that it was morally indefensible for the British Government not to make good on its promise to the Jews to set up a state for them. Back then, Lebanon was called 'North Palestine', Syria was called 'North-East Palestine', Jordan was called 'East Palestine' (Trans-Jordan) and all the land west of the River Jordan was called 'West Palestine' (Cis-Jordan). My point is that the Arabs got three states out of Palestine, yet they and the world begrudge the Jews even one. The Arabs have tried to destroy our tiny country not once but three times. Israel is not part of the problem in the Middle East: having travelled in almost every Arab country, I can tell you that it's part of the solution.

by Avi H. Sat May 10, 2003 11:12

and hear twenty different languages spoken in twenty yards

by Palmiro Togliatti Sat May 10, 2003 12:25

Most people in the Middle East call the territory between the Jordan and the Mediterranean Palestine rather than Israel, so should we adopt that terminology as well on the basis of majority rule?

Avi, there are British Indymedia sites readily accessible through the column on the left hand side of the main page. Both the title and the content of your post clearly relate to Britain, not Ireland. So next time you have something of the sort to post, post it on one of them.

by iosaf ipsiphi o as if Sat May 10, 2003 12:50

you could go to these links and publish there in English, Hebrew or Arabic.
remember to adjust the font code of your PC when you get to the pages.

http://jerusalem.indymedia.org/
http://indymedia.org.il/imc/webcast/
http://beirut.indymedia.org/

i like the motto on the Israeli site.
"be your own journalist".
that about suits Avi H
"Don't care by Avi H. Sat, May 10 2003, 9:35am
Don't care was made to care"

http://jerusalem.indymedia.org/
http://indymedia.org.il/imc/webcast/
http://beirut.indymedia.org/

by devindra Sun May 11, 2003 04:25

For what it's worth, I believe Lyndon LaRouche on this.

Hamas is a tool of Sharon. Some, most or all of the Palestinian "suicide" bombings in Occupied Palestine are in fact "false-flag" operations - carried out by Mossad, and blamed on Palestinians.

Just take a look at the passport nonsense that surrounds this bizarre story.

One guy is supposed to have escaped, yet his British passport and that of his dead colleague are found at the scene, a la Mohammad Atta...

The TV crews are called in (weren't they quick!) and the passports are shown on TV screens around the world within a matter of hours of the blast.

How very convenient!

Mossad dunnit.

From one of LaRouche's Executive Intelligence Review articles from January 2002:

"Arafat told the Italian daily L'Espresso, "Hamas was constituted with the support of Israel. The aim was to create an organization antagonistic to the PLO. They received financing and training from Israel. They have continued to benefit from permits and authorizations, while we have been limited, even to build a tomato factory. [former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak] Rabin himself defined it as a fatal error. Some collaborationists of Israel are involved in these [terror] attacks," he said. "We have proof, and we are placing it at the disposal of the Italian government."

by Avi H. Sun May 11, 2003 09:14

The previous post is so idiotic: it is along the same lines as the story about Mossad being behind 9/11 and having warned 4,000 Israelis not to show up for work in the twin towers that day. Total crap but widely believed in the Arab world.

by morro Sun May 11, 2003 22:36

"The previous post is so idiotic:..Total crap but widely believed in the Arab world."

Who gained the most from the attacks of September 11th? Who had the motive? An Israeli expert on terrorism at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Ehud Sprinzak said, “From the perspective of Jews, it is the most important public relations act ever committed in our favor.”

David Stern, an expert on Israeli intelligence operations stated, “This attack required a high level of military precision and the resources of an advanced intelligence agency. In addition, the attackers would have needed to be extremely familiar with both Air Force One flight operations, civil airline flight paths, and aerial assault tactics on sensitive U.S. cities like Washington.”

He elaborated that the attacks “serve no Arab group or nation’s interest, but their timing came in the midst of international condemnation of Israel…” He goes on to claim “A U.S. military intelligence report revealed details of an international intelligence memo linking Mossad to the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks. The memo was in circulation three weeks before the attacks.”

Furthering the suspicion of Mossad involvement, five Israelis were seen atop a van smiling and celebrating, while taking videos of the disaster from across the Hudson River. These five were arrested by the FBI and detained for two months before being deported back to Israel. Two of these men were positively identified as Israeli intelligence agents. Eighty-one nations are represented among the World Trade Center’s dead - Israel is not one of these nations even though approximately 1200 of its citizens worked there. As if that wasn’t enough, an instant messaging firm in Israel, named Odigo, received warnings about the towers two hours before the attacks. Everyone who points out the wrongdoings of Israel is immediately labeled ‘anti-Semitic’… well, the truth knows no race or religion - it’s just the truth. These aren’t Jews carrying out these plans; it’s merely sick animals who hide behind the Jews!

Are you a "sick animal", Mr "Avi H" or are you a righteous, honorable and decent Jew?

The choice is yours.

by revall Sun May 11, 2003 23:06

Vigilantes take up arms, vow to expel 'Muslim filth'

USA Today

By Jack Kelley

05/09/03: (USA Today) HEBRON, West Bank -- After a quick prayer, Avi Shapiro and 12 other Jewish settlers put on their religious skullcaps, grabbed their semiautomatic rifles and headed toward Highway 60.

There, they pushed boulders, stretched barbed wire and set tires afire to form a barricade that, they said, would stop even the biggest of Palestinian taxis. Then they waited for a vehicle to arrive.

As they crouched in a ditch beside the road, Shapiro, the leader of the group, gave the settlers orders: Surround any taxi, ''open fire'' and kill as many of the ''blood-sucking Arab'' passengers as possible.

''We are doing what (Israeli Prime Minister Ariel) Sharon promised but has failed to do: drive these sons of Arab whores from the Land of Israel,'' said Shapiro, 42, who moved here with his wife and four children 3 years ago from Brooklyn. ''If he won't get rid of the Muslim filth, then we will.''

Continued at....

by Wow Mon May 12, 2003 06:27

Wow. Someone points out that some british muslims, brainwashed to believe that allah will reward them if they kill blow themselves up and take some jewish israelis with them, who had money and weren't desperate, flew to israel and intentionally killed some innocent people.

This is a fact.

You'd think that a reasonable discussion could result. Yet, a bunch of jew-hating scumbags who blame everything on "the zionists" come out of the woodwork and blame it on "The jews." Pretty amazing.

by Johnny Doe Mon May 12, 2003 06:29

Well, this is how it works with this issue. Whenever the topic of Palestinians, or the topic of arabs mistreating other arabs is concerned, the jew-haters out there always bring jews, or "zionists" (their own insane definition of it,that is) or israel into the equation.

NORMAL PERSON: You realize that in Egypt, committing gay acts is punishable by death, or exile, right? While in Israel it's legal to be gay, gays have a pride parade in israel, people's individual choices are respected.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Why do the jews like shooting arabs in the head????????? Zionism is evil!!!!!!

NORMAL PERSON: You realize that in Saudia Arabia, women aren't allowed to even drive cars or work in public places, let alone have important jobs, while in Israel women are free to do whatever, and in fact, Israel has had a woman as a prime minister - the top position in the entire country.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Zionism is racist and evil and racist and discriminatory zionazis are evil israel is bad it's israel's fault!

NORMAL PERSON: You realize that in many muslim countries, it's illegal for a married woman to cheat on her husband, and sometimes women have been raped, and the rapist has been caught, yet the woman was raped gets flogged because the law says that she cheated on her husband.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: the zionists occupation is trying to take over the whole world, that is why arabs do that, it's the zionists!!!!

NORMAL PERSON: Israel offered peace agreements with every arab country. Egypt and Jordan accepted, and Israel honored it fully and proved that when given real peace, Israel is a terrific partner. But Syria still refuses to recognize that Israel should be left alone, Palestinians have had ONE LEADER this whole time who fought with other arabs just as much as he fought with Israel. Israel is obviously willing to make peace, Egypt and Jordan can confirm they have honored everything.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: zionists don't want peace, they want war!

NORMAL PERSON: Then why has Israel offerd peace to everyone, repeatedly, for many years, and 2 arab countries agreed, and Israel accepted, and it's worked out fine, with both sides honoring their agreements?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Zionists want to take over the earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Israel loves to kill!

NORMAL PERSON: Why is it that to this day, it's illegal to be a jewish citien of saudia arabia, yet in Israel the citizens are allowed to practice whatever religion they want, and there are arab muslims in israel's government, democratically elected by 100% of israel's citizens, as we speak? Shouldn't people who are against racial or religious discrimination note this extremely vast difference?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Sharon is worse than hitler! Damn zionazis!!!!!!!!

NORMAL PERSON: It seems that Israel's main demand in return for ending hte occupation all these years has been that Israel receive peace and security. That seems like a reasonable request. Year after year, as that request was rejected, it kind of makes sense that Israel set up additional areas of control, to ward off people who reject the peace offers and just keep attacking.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Israel doesn't want peace, they may say it, and they may honor it with the arab countries who actually give it to them, but, errr, uhhhhhh, screw the zionists!!!!!!!!!!!!

NORMAL PERSON: In Algeria and some nearby countries, don't they still practice forced female circumcision? That's a sick practice forced upon women.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Israel shuldn't exist, then there woudl be no need to carve up women's private parts!!

NORMAL PERSON: Israel has freedom of the press. That's why some newspaper articles agree with government moves, others disagree. That's why different voices are heard. But in most arab/muslim countries, the government has 100% control of the media, and no dissenting views are allowed.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Zionists just pretend to have freedom of the press, it's all a lie, open your eyes!!!

NORMAL PERSON: It's strange how peopole blame Ariel Sharon for the current problems, when the fact is that Palestinians began their latest intiafa, and MONTHS LATER, in response, Ariel Sharon was elected into office to deal with it.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Always in response, that's what they always say!

NORMAL PERSON: But, it usually is a case of Israel responding if you actually look at the facts. The fact is, Israel had made a state offer, it wasn't a perfect offer but it was a start, and at the time they made it Arafat was in control of almost all of Palestinian land, and instead of taking time to discuss it, to work with Israel as well as the international community and to keep going in the direction of peace, Arafat rejected even the discussion of it, and soon after, Palestinians began their intifada, and MONTHS LATER, Ariel Sharon was elected into office. So, the fact is, Sharon WAS a response to the intifada.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Sharon caused the intifada by walking to some important buildings, he's a mad killer, he's insane!

NORMAL PERSON: If he's insane, then when palestinians attack Israel, how come Ariel Sharon doesn't just lob giant bombs into Palestinian towns and kill thousands at a time? Logic suggests that Israel sending troops in to go after terrorist organizations, risking their own lives to guard towns and go after groups that are attacking, shows they are trying to be responsible. Irresponsible would be to kill thousands each day, which Ariel Sharon could do if he wanted to.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Ariel Sharon can't do that because then he would be revealed for the killer that he is!!!!

NORMAL PERSON: So, the fact is, Ariel Sharon hasn't done it, so you're calling him a mad killer for something he hasn't done?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: But he would!

NORMAL PERSON: How do you know that? The fact is, Sharon hasn't done it. What he has done is demand that Palestinians cease their terrorist attacks, and in return, he would discuss settling this issue.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Sharon is a mad killer, even if he hasn't actually killed! He's a zionist, they're all killers!

NORMAL PERSON: So, people who don't kill, they're killers?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Yes!

NORMAL PERSON: Hasn't the Palestinian intifada been really self-destructive? Attacking Israel, who was offering peace, and is much more heavily armed than the Palestinians, doesn't seem smart. Yet Palestinians keep doing it, refuse to call off their intifada, and then complain that they're losing the battle. Is that accurate?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Yes! Well, no! I mean, yes! Errr, you're just spewing pro-Israel propaganda!

NORMAL PERSON: It appears I'm telling the truth, based on observing what's actually happening.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: You are a racist zionist and I won't fall for your tricks!

NORMAL PERSON: What?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: zionism is racism!

NORMAL PERSON: zionism means the support of the existence of Israel. In Israel, there are citizens of almost every race on earth. There are arabs, non-arabs, jews, non-jews in the government.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Israel is an apartheid state! That's why they attack the Palestinians, they want to wipe out all the arabs!

NORMAL PERSON: What? The fact is, every Israeli citizen of every race and every religion has an equal vote, and can run for office. What are you talking about?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Zionists want to kill arab babies!!!!

NORMAL PERSON: You keep saying "zionists." Do you realize that zionism is just the support of the existence of Israel as a jewish homeland? Zionists aren't Israelis, necessarily. Zionists are anyone, anywhere, of any race or religion, who simply support the existence of Israel. Zionists don't necessarily agree with everything Israel does. People disagree. People have different ideas. But to be a "zionist" just means you want Israel to not be taken over and the jews wiped out or overthrown, something arab countries tried repeatedly to do. So when you yell about "the zionists" do you even know who you're yelling about? There are black non-religious circus midgets in alaska, and if they support israel as a jewish homeland, they're zionists.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATICS: crush the zionists, freedom for all! No to racism!

NORMAL PERSON: What?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: You heard me! Israel violates UN resolutions!

NORMAL PERSON: Actually, the UN resolutions against Israel are what are called "non-binding." Look it up. I'll assume you don't know what that means. It means that the resolutions are basically statements that express the view of the majority of the UN. Meaning, the UN has not ordered Israel to do anything. The UN has merely stated their view. It's an expression of an opinion, basically. Furthermore, have you noticed that the UN has singled Israel out while not saying a word about much worse stuff elsewhere? For example, I assume you are aware that China's occupation of Tibet has lasted longer than Israel's occupation of Palestinians. And when the occupations began for both, a lot more people were in Tibet. And, Tibet wasn't trying to destroy China, but China occupied them anyway. But Palestinian leaders were calling for Israel's destruction, so Israel occupied. Also, China has stamped out the ancient culture of Tibet, wiping out most of their holy sites. Israel, meanwhile, has preserved all muslim holy sites. And while Israel has repeatedly tried to negotiate the end of the occupation in exchagne for peace that has not yet come, China has never offered to end the occupation. China turned Chinese into Tibet's language, while wiping our their culture. Why do I bring all this up? Not to say that two alleged wrongs make an alleged right. I bring it up because, while the UN has made COUNTLESS resolutions condemning Israel, they have NOT MADE A SINGLE resolution against China for what they've done. Does that seem fair to you?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Well it serves the zionists right?

NORMAL PERSON: In fact, the UN said and did nothing about massacres in Africa that killed hundreds of thousands, the UN didn't do anything against Saddam for what he did to the Kurds or his own people, the UN has said very little about anything, anywhere, but year after year has singled Israel out while ignoring equal or much worse events elsewhere. This has gone on for 50 years now.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Jews are cheap and liars!

NORMAL PERSON: What?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Sorry, I didn't say that, I meant "the zionists have fooled you!"

NORMAL PERSON: Isn't it strange how if Jews try to live in the West bank or gaza, they are called "illegal settlers," yet in Israel, almost 20% of the population are muslim, and yet they have citizenship of the country?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: That's arab land, Jews have no right to be there!

NORMAL PERSON: So, you just admitted that you are in support of preventing a race or religion from living in one land, yet you demand that the owners of the other land not only give full equality to everyone, but also do favors for those who are trying to destroy the country?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: There you go with your propaganda again!

NORMAL PERSON: You mean, my logic? If it's ok for Saudia Arabia to keep 100% of it's citizenship muslim, while Israel allows it's citizens to practice whatever religion they choose, why are we still attacking Israel for NOT doing what other countries right nearby ARE doing?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: There you go again! Zionist-supporting madmen always try to change the topic!

NORMAL PERSON: It appears you want to single Israel out for everything under the sun, even when all you have to do to find infinitely worse behavior is point at the map and move your finger 2 inches in any direction.

NORMAL PERSON: I think the solution is for Palestinians to get a new leadership, made up of responsible, civil moderates who are not islamic extremists, and to work with them to stamp out Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists will never stop attacking Israel regardless of what Israel does, and once the Palestinian populations are under control, help support those moderate leaders and guide Palestine into becoming a responsible state. If the current terrorists who have run Palestine for 40 years are allowed to control the state, then once it's a strong state they'll probably just go right back to attacking Israel, resulting in a giant war, which no one should want.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Israel must end the occupation today, give "right of return" for all Palestinians, pay them for all the trouble they've had, and give up their zionist dream!

NORMAL PERSON: But if Israel gives a "right of return" for palestinians, and a few million palestinians flood into Israel, Israel would no longer be a jewish state, jews would be a minority, and with tens of thousands of those palestinians being hamas and islamic jihad members, the jews of israel would probably be wiped out, or forced to flee.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: So? That's fair!

NORMAL PERSON: How in heck is that fair?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: It's fair! Stomp out racism, end zionism, freedom for all!

NORMAL PERSON: So your idea of freedom means Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and a few million Palestinians who want to destroy Israel being allowed to move into Israel so they can wipe out the Jews there and take over?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: I am for fairness and equality, no racism!

NORMAL PERSON: If you demand that Palestinians who once lived in Israel be given homes and payment for what they lost, will you also demand that Jews who once lived in two dozen arab countries be given homes and payment for what they lost? The FACT is, there were hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who once lived in Israel and no longer do, and there were ALSO hundreds of thousands of Jews who once lived in arab countries but had to flee for safety to Israel. If you are going to demand that one set of refugees be compensated, shouldn't you demand that both sides of refugees be compensated.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: No, because I really just hate the jews, errr, uhhhhh, I didn't mean that, I meant I'm anti-zionist, down with zionism, up with israel being destroyed, that's fair, ummm, you're twisting my words, cease your propaganda! Israel shoudln't even exist, it was formed violently!

NORMAL PERSON: Do you realize that there was violence in the formation of almost every country on earth?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: There may be violence, but not from foreign invaders!

NORMAL PERSON: Actually, for decades Israel was being formed by peaceful jewish immigrants moving in and building up communities and towns, alongside and with muslims and arabs around. There was violence when the state was formed, but isn't that true of almost every country/state on this planet? Have you actually looked at how most countries on earth have been formed?

CRAZY ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Israel has no right to exist, it was carved out of arab territories!

NORMAL PERSON: But, half of earth was carved out of pre-existing territories. Are you against Pakistan existing? Muslims already had a few dozen muslim countries, yet Pakistan was carved out of India. America was run by native american indians, do you also call for americans to leave america and go back to where they came from? How much history do you want to undo? It appears that Israel was formed by settling, building, growing, and then international recognition by pretty much the whole world, outside of arab countries, half of which were formed by european invasion and turned into official countries pretty much the same way.

CRAZY ISREAL-HATING LUNATIC: why do you keep changing the subject?!?!

NORMAL PERSON: Because I'm bringing historical and honest perspective into this. It appears you want to single Israel out for doing things that about half the world has done. Yet, you make no mention of the rest of the world. You just single Israel out, exaggerate their alleged wrongdoings, with no actual historical perspective or sense of reality whatsoever.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: More propaganda. You watch fox news, don't you!

NORMAL PERSON: I watch everything. I also try to learn about everyplace. I try to have an educated, balanced perspective when analyzing things, so that my opinions have some validity. If you want to undo Israel, then if you apply the SAME STANDARDS across the globe, you'd probably undo about half the nations on this planet. That makes no sense.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: You kill babies! Israel's settlements must cease!

NORMAL PERSON: The more Palestinians attack Israel, the more it appears Israel will allow more settlements. Israel offered to remove them in exchange for peace. But a terrorist intifada came instead. So, the settling continued. Anyway, as I said before, why is it that if Jews live in the West bank right now, they are called "illegal settlers," but Muslims who live in Israel right now maintain full citizenship?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: I don't know, why does israel like to shoot children?

NORMAL PERSON: Most hamas terrorists are teenagers. Who can be called "children." If people attack you with guns, or rocks, or bombs, and you shoot them, is it fair to call you a "killer of children?" Why did Palestinians reject Israel's peace offers and send their children to attack heavily armed soldiers? Doesn't that seem irresponsible, dangerous and self-destructive?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Israel WANTS to shoot those kids!

NORMAL PERSON: Really? Then why aren't hundreds or thousands of those kids dying each day? Israel has the power to do that.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Zionists are killers!

NORMAL PERSON: So, the fact is, Israel is restrained to the point where instead of just wiping out hundreds or thousands at a time, they are going after members of terrorist groups who mingle with innocent people, and in street war where everyone from armed killers to kids with rocks are attacking Israeli soldiers, yet Israel has still resisted using massive force and massive casualties. So, the fact is, Israel barely kills compared to what they could do. SO, they're by definition, restrained. Yet, you say they aren't. Even though they are. Right?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Jews are greedy and want to steal the money of those children?

NORMAL PERSON: What?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Whoops, I meant that the zionists are greedy and want to kidnap the, ummm, errrrrr, there you go again using facts on me, that's not fair!

NORMAL PERSON: It appears that when Palestinians end their intiada, and can be represented by responsible human beings who genuinely want peace for both sides, Israel is willing to reward them by handing land control over and work towards the formation of a Palestinian state. Well, a second Palesitnian state. YOu realize that just 100 years ago, the "Palestinian territory" included Jordan, right? That's a fact. About 75% of the Palestinian territory was carved out and turned into transjordan, which became Jordan. THe majority of Jordan citizens are "Palestinians." That's a fact. So, really, the West bank and gaza will be a second Palestinian state.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: STop it, you're confusing me. Jews run the world! Stop them and their zionist dreams!

NORMAL PERSON: HOpefully, someday, Palestinians are run by sane leaders, and terrorists can be stomped out. And hopefully Israel rewards those efforts by giving control over to those new responsible leaders. It makes no sense for Arafat, or anyone associated with Arafat, to gain control. Terrorism should not be rewarded. And if Palestinin leadership can be supported to the point where they can control Hamas terrorists, so Israel doesn't have to, then Israel will respond in kind, and a responsible, civil Palestinian state can be created. Israel will respond with kindness when it's possible and safe to do so. That is the future I hope for.

Written by [email protected]

Feel free to repost this any place where people excessive demonize Israel, rant insane negative nonsense about "zionism," etc. Keep my email address on it.

by pat c Mon May 12, 2003 10:34

about David Lass, the less likely it seems he is a Mossad agent. He looks too much like a spy; going around in summer wearing atightly belted mack. With that fanatical, suspicious look on his face most of the time.

Maybe the allegations should be deleted? they give his work place. Lass never (to my knowledge) came on to indy, so in the abscence of any back up re Mossad it would be best to delete the relevant comments. (Including this one!)

by iosaf Mon May 12, 2003 14:51

but today ex General powell is not in Palestine.
when will he be in Israel Avi?¿?¿?

like the motto on the Israeli site.
"be your own journalist".
that about suits Avi H
"Don't care by Avi H. Sat, May 10 2003, 9:35am
Don't care was made to care"

http://jerusalem.indymedia.org/
http://indymedia.org.il/imc/webcast/
http://beirut.indymedia.org/

link to yesterday's article feed on ISP stuff.
read it.

by Hmmmm Mon May 12, 2003 21:45

Like watchin a game of fucking tennis reading this fucking newswire it's no wonder we've been massacring each other for millenia, as Bob Dylan once put it "lay upon your big brass bed" Y'know don't yaw'll get it

by kokomero Tue May 13, 2003 10:10

"Don't be surprised if millions die in plague and murder. True happiness lies beyond your fries and happy burger."

by pat c Tue May 13, 2003 14:25

"And I like him, consume myself."

by hji Wed May 14, 2003 08:24

who here enjoys cake?

I like to eat tasty cake

by kippers and margarine Fri May 16, 2003 09:31

Ahhhh! the final soothing decay into madness
AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI AVI
OI

by pat c Fri May 16, 2003 10:49

good iced do'nuts in TCD. get them before al qaeda does.