Bertie's Boot Boys

by Confused Sun Apr 13, 2003 16:21

I'm confused. The only reports on indymedia.ie on yesterday's IAWM demo at Shannon thus far focus on the gardai. Is this because it was an IAWM march? I suspect the newswire would be buried in reports by now if 50 people had attended a grassroots thingy at Shannon.

Good pics.

by Eoin Dubsky Sun Apr 13, 2003 17:11

What gives? I haven't received any emails from the IAWM, GR, or the SWP about it either. What was it like? What were the tactics, actions?

by John Sun Apr 13, 2003 18:06

It's true that IAWM, SWP, GR, or whatever should have written a report, but wasn't there anybody from indymedia present? Let's be honest about this, members of these groups (for the wrong reasons I reckon) don't tend to submit reports to indymedia. They should. However, where are the reports from the indymedia types and diverse anarchos who are always posting? Did they boycott Shannon this Saturday or something? Or, like the mainstream media, do they ignore things that don't quite suit? Mind you, other than anti-IAWM sectarianism, I can't see why people wouldn't want to applaud the turnout and protest at Shannon.

by Eugene Sun Apr 13, 2003 18:21

I would have gone to the demo in Shannon but went to the one in Belfast instead. It was disappointingly small and Belfast isn't the best place to be anti-imperialist at any time. I was struck by the fact that there were _no_ Sinn Féin banners this time whereas there were a scattering at least at Hillsborough - I'd be interested do know if there were any at Shannon?

It does seem to show that Sinn Féin have merely used the Antiwar movement for their own purposes - they ignored it when it was getting going, and this shameful attitude goes back to the time of the attack on Afghanistan, during which time there was not one mention, nary a word, of Afghanistan for the entire year. It was not referred to either in the SF Ard Fheis or in any, not even the tiniest part of one, press statement.

I'm speaking as an ex-member of Sinn Féin who was active in the movement for most of my adult life. And I'm well aware that there are many such as some members of the SWP, IRSP and "Workers" Party, who are only too ready to have a go at republicanism while ignoring their own compromises.

At a meeting of the Derry anti-war coalition, some Sinn feiners arrived for the first time and we don't expect to see them again. One was a well-known sociopath known locally as "Jude the Hood"

Now that Gerry and Martin and the rest of the dollar-chasing bandagon have undoubtedly sold out completely Haass ann tipping the forelock to Bush, I say SHAME SHAME SHAME.

by Chucky Sun Apr 13, 2003 18:26

Right, Eugene, and what have you done to challenge British imperialism in the north over the past 30 years? Put your life on the line? Or sold copies of 'Socialist Worker', 'Workers Solidarity', or the 'Voice'?

British imperialism is imperialism whether it is in Belfast or Baghdad. A bit awkward when it's up north though, isn't it? Too close to home.

by Chucky Sun Apr 13, 2003 18:28

Hey, I've just re-read your comment and noticed that you are an ex-member of Sinn Fein. A draft-dodger no doubt.

by eugene Sun Apr 13, 2003 18:38

Draft-dodger? Where the fvck do you get that from? You're american, aren't you?

As I pointed out, I was active most of my adult life in the RM, and I bet I've contributed more than you did, you yankee waster. Course,as with most of you guys, knowledge isn't a precondition to commentary.

by Lizzie Sun Apr 13, 2003 18:41

Speaking on Radio Free Eireann, NYC, Eamonn McCann said that, largely due to the influence of corporate Irish America, Sinn Fein had now veered to the right. Sinn Fein's new allies will dictate how far they can go, and the rank and file are now paying the price for the alliances the Sinn Fein leadership has made he said. On the same programme, Tommy McKearney said that Adams meeting Bush, the leader of the imperialist order, violated every principle that republicans had suffered for. He said that the Provisional leadership will now opportunistically coalesce with Fianna Fail if given the chance, but he stressed that Irish republicanism was broader and bigger than the provisional faction and that the real task now, that armed struggle was not an option, was to create something new and radical.

by GreenPartyMike - Green Party USA Sun Apr 13, 2003 20:15 ollamhfaery at earthlink dot net

I must say that I have now come to the same conclusion as Eugene. I have watched as Gerry and Co have completely desecrated the memory of many, many of those who have died fighting British Imperialism including family of mine. Like I have said in the past, Gerry is welcomed by the US administration to the White House but Bernadette Devlin is barred from entering the frigging country. Just about says it all.
Delighted to hear that I am not alone in my assessment. Thank you Eugene, mo chara nua.

by A lil birdy Sun Apr 13, 2003 20:31

Well, sorry to burst your bubble boys, but Aonghus O Snodaigh of Sinn Fein spoke at Shannon. Best speaker, though, was an American vietnam vet who joined up (or was conscripted?) when he was eighteen and served two tours.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Sun Apr 13, 2003 21:16

Having attended the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis, clearly unlike Eugene, I can say there were many, many references to the war, from Adams, from Ard Comhairle members, from ordinary delegates. Two people on the platform were wearing anti-war tee-shirts.

I'm not saying this to get across a Sinn Fein, aren't ythey great message, but simply that anyone who says there was no reference to the war at the Ard Fheis in any speech is, basially, a liar. As Eugene so eloquently puts it, knowledge isn't a precondition to commentary. Clearly Eugene.

As for Sinn Fein veering to the centre right, I had a defence of it all ready until I noticed that the source, the expert political analyst drafted in for this statement was Eamon McCann. A leading member of the SWP attacks Sinn Fein for veering to the right without providing a single shred of evidence for it. Is this supposed to be news?

by me Sun Apr 13, 2003 21:56

My understanding is that SF boycotted the Belfast anti war demo because they where booed at Hillsborough.

by eugene Sun Apr 13, 2003 22:09

My God it's come a long way for Sinn Fein if they're atking offence at some (rightful) booing which they received at Hillsborough. Do we take that they've boycotting anti-war demos becausde some people booed them? Guess that shinners aren't made of the stuff they used to be. I sold An Phoblacht on the street the day after the Birmingham bombs and was ready to take the flak. Now, when I see what they're up to, I kick myself for being such a fool.

by eugene Sun Apr 13, 2003 22:16

Justin I attended probably Ardfheiseanna than most in my time, probably more than yourself so don't bother to one-up me on that.

I wasa rfeferring, and I think you know it, to the ardfheiseanna during the US attack on Afghanistan. During all that year, and I repeat it:

(1) Afghanistan was not mentioned even once in An Phoblacht (go ahead - search the archives yourself online).

(2) There was no mention in any PSF press relief - Caoimhín Ó Caoláin started mentioning it after it was long over (must have been given the go-ahead by his pals in the Democratic Party)

(3) There was no refernece to Afghanistan at the Ardfheis.

You say otherwise, show the evidence or shut up.

by Paul G. Sun Apr 13, 2003 22:17

You sold An Phoblacht on the streets after the B'mingham bombings? Not in Derry you didn't. RN was sold in Derry in the 1970s. Are you real or a troll?

by eugene Sun Apr 13, 2003 22:22

>

Here's a couiple of peices if you like:

(1) Mitchel McLaughlin's statement that SF "had no problem with tarnsnational companies"

(2) Michelle Gildernew's statement that she had no problem with taking their seats in westminster

(3) The Hon Min for Health, Stormont assembly, closing down rural hospitals

(4) The Hon Min for Education, Stormont assembly, embracing of Public-Private partnership (no matter what your Ardfheis motions say)

by eugene Sun Apr 13, 2003 22:25

(1) It wasn't Derry.

(2) An Phoblacht was sold in Derry in the 70s.

by Paul G. Sun Apr 13, 2003 22:30

1. Funny you use the initials RN in your reply. Busy searching some books to find out what they stand for?

2. You refer to SF as PSF. Auld stickie abbrev.

by Confused Sun Apr 13, 2003 22:33

What in God's name has any of the above to do with the initial posting, my comment, and the few relevant ones that followed?

by Aidan Sun Apr 13, 2003 23:09

In our defense....

We had a serious indymedia presence in belfast all last week.

One of our collective is barred from Shannon.

One of us was moving. At least three of us were working.

We're also all sodding knackered.

So we missed this one. Instead of having a go at us, you could take that "be the media" motto of ours literally and write a report on this.

Aidan
-Alternatively you could just blame that lazy git daithi-

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Mon Apr 14, 2003 09:52 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Eugene, I had no idea you were referring to the Ard Fhéis that took place during the attack on Afghanistan because you never stated that. I searched the APRN archives and in less than thirty secnds found an article on Afghanistan:
http://www.irlnet.com/aprn/archive/2001/November01/01worl.html

The war in Afghanistan is not over and it was frequently mentioned in press releases, I wrote a couple of them.

Provide source for Mitchel's statement. Gildernew's statement was in the context of taking our offices.

And your statements on Health and Education ignore the political reality that the Executive has no tax raising functions. The option available t every sovereign government, of raising finance through taxation, is not available to the Executive, and Sinn Fein is opposed to public private partnership. Some had to be implemented because legal contracts had been signed, others were not because the party refused to do so.

by Chekov Mon Apr 14, 2003 10:59

There is an easy explanation for the lack of reports which you perceive on the newswire - people in the grassroots milieu act on their own initiative and write the damn things. There is no IMC cabal which decides what to report and what not to, merely people who write about the things that interest them. If there are a dearth of reports on the IAWM protest, blame the 500 protestors who were there, not the IMC.

The march on Saturday was dominated by the political parties. Labour, Greens, SWP & SP were all out in force. The fact that these are all hierarchical organisations means that their members are probably not encouraged to write accounts for public consumption without authorisation/vetting by the leadership. Naturally this discourages individual initiative and leads to reports that are far less interesting.

Although the protest was dominated by the parties, there were at least 20 people from GNAW there and a few people who regularly do write reports on such events for indymedia. I don't know why they haven't produced anything, but I can say that, in my own case, I found the whole thing to be too depressing and demoralising to contemplate describing it.

by Confused Mon Apr 14, 2003 13:33

God, Chekov, ye really are a superior breed, aren't ye?

by Ensign Chekov Mon Apr 14, 2003 13:46

I am the smartest person in the known galaxy.

by Chekov Mon Apr 14, 2003 14:39

You asked why there were no reports of the Shannon demo. I put forward my theory, which seemes plausible to me.

Maybe it's wrong and I am suffering from delusions of superiority, as you seem to imply. Why don't you offer an alternative explanation, or point out the delusional assumptions that you seem to have found in my posting? Maybe you'll convince me and others. Or maybe you're just another anonymous SWP member with a chip on your shoulder, looking to throw a bit of mud?

by Confused Mon Apr 14, 2003 14:53

Firstly, I'm most definitely not in the SWP or any other organisation. My feeling when I initially asked the question was that there might be less interest because it was an IAWM march. I didn't know (wasn't in Shannon myself), hence the question. Judging by some of the responses (still virtually no reports), I suspect I was right to think that sectarian hostility was at play. Chekov's sneering attitude to the protest (which, after all, was a protest at Shannon and esp. important because of that) indicates that some people can't rise above political differences. Chekov might think that he's superior (politically or whatever) to an ordinary wallah like myself but then it's ordinary wallahs that make up these protests. Sorry we don't always meet your high expectations.

by Andrew Mon Apr 14, 2003 15:17

Confused one of the big problems with organising anything in Ireland is that you leave yourself open to two forms of abuse
1. 'Why didn't you organise it according to my secret plan'
2. When something else worth organising for happens but you don't organise it 'Why didn't X organise Y for this'.

You seem to be Confused under 2. above. For some reason you were not at Shannon and so can not write a report about it. So you demand that other people should have gone there and written this report for your entertainment. Now while I'd like to see more reports I'm not about to attack others for not writing them unless I've at least bothered to do so myself.

Incidentally I was there and I'm trying to write something but I'm finding it very difficult in part for the reasons Chekov alludes to. It's quite hard to write an honest account that avoids coming across as nasty or defeatest or both. It's getting lost in a lot of introspection about the movement in general and where things went wrong.

The problem I suspect everyone is having is that its actually very difficult to write an account of defeat as opposed to victory. Bertie gave us two fingers and we let him away with it. In Shannon on Saturday 467 people marched into a protest pen surrounded by 300 cops, two made sheep noises and our 'leaders' told us that the struggle was not yet over. Meanwhile an enormous military cargo plane crossed our field of vision as it prepared for take off and nearly everyone pretended not to notice.

by Chekov Mon Apr 14, 2003 15:19

My "sneering attitude" to the protest saw me spend yet another precious Saturday travelling down to that airport that I have come to hate. I found it demoralising as it seemed clear to me, due to the number and organisation of the cops, that the window of opportunity for stopping the military traffic in the near future has passed. I found it depressing to listen to the same people making the same speeches to a dwindling audience, without the appearance of any strategy, or even debate about strategy, of how to move forward from here. Do you have a problem with this - are we to be condemned if we do not display happy-clappy, blindly optimistic reactions to all demonstrations?

You also still haven't pointed out any evidence for the superiority complex that you detected in my comment, nor have you posited an alternative theory to explain the lack of reports on the march. If you don't do so, I can only asume that you have none. Finally, although I may be biased, I'd say that I'm not the one guilty of sneering in this thread.

by Chaosist Mon Apr 14, 2003 18:20

Yah, Andrew can see an IAWM/SWP defeat when he sees one! Good on him. Too bad he's so fucking blind when it comes to recent GNAW debacles, especially that last Sunday stroll with a coffin marked 'neutrality'. Join PANA chaps.

by Ha-Ha-Ha - Still laughing! Mon Apr 14, 2003 21:04

Great to see all you wasters bitching about each other. At the end of this , you will have forgotten what the fuck you were protesting about, and who the fuck you belong to.

doh, eh, what war were we talkig about, doh, ----

by Too shagged to go to shannon(sorry) Mon Apr 14, 2003 21:56

Excellent gig 3+ hrs long!

by Too shagged to read properly! Mon Apr 14, 2003 22:03

They dedicated it to edwin, who died of a heart-attack last thursday (3rd) week.

by old sectarian Tue Apr 15, 2003 02:01

while youre trolling the archives justin,check out demo.on night of dessies extradition,whoops,no mention of sf stewards trying to stop demo getting to dail? just enough time to put pressure on ff tds /give cops enough time to tool up,if youre naive enough to not understand how national liberation movements end up,can i direct you to south africa,zimbabwe,cuba,palestine etc.or a copy of fourtwrite

by Phuq Hedd Tue Apr 15, 2003 20:43

interestingly was written mostly to criticise and draw attention to the inter-community violence that black people were suffering from. It got latched onto by anti-Vietnam people after (and Starr didn't disagree with that, but it wasn't the song's primary purpose).