Why Cuba Is The Best Country In The World

by Stalin Jr. Wed Apr 09, 2003 04:58

b.. b. b...but... I thought Cuba was a socialist workers' paradise, just like the USSR and Red China were? Isn't socialism the answer??? Gosh, this self-righteousness thing is really confusing...

by James McKenna - Bay of Dead Pigs Society Wed Apr 09, 2003 08:04

The alleged courts of which you speak and which indeed do not operate as you suggest should not condcern you as a US supporter.

Your Friends in the north of Ireland ran courts for years, that sent men and women to jail for decades, were not only secret but didn't even have a jury. Your friends in the South of Ireland also run a similar Special Criminal Court which also abuses individual rights much more than the ficticious Cuban court you allege operates.

Your friends in England framed and fitted up many people for long sentences when they had to deal with pesky juries.

Your friends in Guantanamo Bay , Afghanistan and Iraq don't even have trials before they subject innocent men to being imprisonment in open air dog-kennels under 24 hour spotlights.

And what about the journalists and civilians your murdering US government has and will kill in Iraq? I'll bet they would be glad to have any sort of a chance to explain why they shouldn't be killed before any sort of jury.

Take your illegal oppressive blocade off the Cuban people and stop fostering civil unrest there and here.

by red Wed Apr 09, 2003 09:24

yes james, but dont sidestep the point...CUBA is a stalinist nightmare Too.

by James McKenna Wed Apr 09, 2003 09:53

I must tell you that Cuba is a most beautiful island with the most healthy happy people you will meet.

It has terrible problems of pollution and shortages due to the US embargo but they eat and live better than most US citizens.

The US and Britain at present are much more like Stalinist regimes!

by kokomero Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:12

I have, and guess what, I talked to plenty of people openly in the street who did not like Castro and the regieme although they all disagreed about what they would like to replace it.

What they were ALL agreed on was they did not want the US or Cuban exiles to run the place! They like many peoples round the world would ALWAYS prefer their own bad government to a solution imposed from outside.

One further thing about Cuba was that while it was obvious that there were shortages of just about everything, everybody was equally badly off although nobody was living in misery or anything approaching it. What most people wanted was more variety and availability and the kids wanted pens and chewing gum.

While being far from ideal it contrasts dramatically with many other third world countries around the world where a few benefit disproportionately and the vast majority live in misery.

by pat c Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:14

i condemn the US economic blockade of Cuba and all of the black ops organised by the CIA which over the years resulted in the deaths of thousands of Cubans.

However I will not defend the indefensible. This crushing of political sissent is completely wrong.
You are doing the people of Cuba no favours by blindly supporting the Castro regime.

Basic human rights are being denied to Cuban dissidents. I have no doubt that I would be an imprisoned dissident if I lived in Cuba.

by kokomero Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:49

Have you been to Cuba? If not what are you basing your opinions on?

by pat c Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:01

does that mean i shouldnt have an opinion on it? your point is at best childish. using that logic no one could ever comment on a country unless they had been there.

are you seriously suggesting that cuba is a socialist democracy? there is no plurality even of workers parties.

i defend and will continue to defend cuba against imperialist aggression but i wont cover up its failings.

by Lone gunman Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:06

Move there then.ASAP .Actually we will pass the hat around to buy you a one way ticket.Post your address here and we will come around personally to help you pack and move your furniture,as well as pay your taxi fare to the airport.

by chekov Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:14

And I've never seen such a police state before. Cuban friends were constantly on the look out for the secret police. In Havana they had to walk on the other side of the road from me lest they be arrested for consorting with foreigners. I also stayed with a mid-ranking communist party guy, he lived in a Spanish colonial style mansion in old havana, not exactly the same as the mud huts I stayed in in Santiago.

It's a police state.
It has a fair amount of economic inequality (although nothing compared with the west).

by James McKenna Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:47

There is some dissent among young rastafarians and a lot of people resent the travel limitations but the only real hostility or resentment is towards the US who are causing much suffering with their economic blocade on food and medicines.

Cuba is under an illegal siege and has been for decades. It is not fair to judge it's ability to exist or have great civil liberties in the face of incessant CIA and US backed attacks

There is a US backed "opposition" as in Venezuela so don't believe what they say too much as they are funded from Miami and fed from Washington.

Go to Cuba and meet these people you fear. The police are on every street in the cities but they are polite and helpful and do not give off the same authority vibe you get from Western police, inckluding your own.

If you are a US agent, you should be afraid though I gueess?

by pat c Wed Apr 09, 2003 13:15

"Cuba: Dozens of Cuban dissidents "will be brought to trial"

Following a wave of targeted arrests of dissidents that began on 18 March 2003 in Cuba, Amnesty International is concerned that there may be 77 new prisoners of conscience on the island, detained for the non-violent exercise of their rights to freedom of expression and association, the organization said in a report "Cuba: Massive crackdown on dissent"(AMR 25/008/2003) released today.

"In what appears to have been the biggest crackdown in a decade, independent journalists, members of human rights groups, political activists and other perceived dissidents across the country have been detained in a major police operation," Amnesty International said.

The detainees, who range from well-known dissidents to grassroots-level activists, remain imprisoned without charge, and the whereabouts of some of them is unknown.

According to reports, at the time of the arrests security forces searched homes across the island and confiscated computers, fax machines, typewriters, books and papers.Those detained could face up to 20 years in prison under harsh legislation introduced in 1999.

In addition to the detentions, other high profile opposition figures have been harassed. Plainclothes security agents were apparently posted outside the homes of among others Oswaldo Payá Sardiñas, leader of citizens' initiative on democratic changes and former prisoner of conscience Elizardo Sánchez Santacruz, of the CCDHRN, a prominent human rights organization in Cuba.

"Amnesty International seeks immediate explanation from the Cuban authorities regarding the recent detentions including list of charges against them as well as the legal grounds on which they will be tried," the organization stressed.

In addition, the international human rights organization urges the Cuba government to immediately and unconditionally release all prisoners
of conscience in Cuba.

"We call on the authorities to reform the Cuban legislation which helps 'legitimise' the ongoing incarceration of prisoners of conscience by outlawing the exercise of fundamental freedoms," Amnesty International concluded.

Before the recent crackdown, Amnesty International had already recognised 15 prisoners of conscience in Cuba. With the latest mass arrests, the number of prisoners of conscience could rise to its highest level in recent years.

Public Document
****************************************
For more information please call Amnesty International's press office in
London, UK, on +44 20 7413 5566
Amnesty International, 1 Easton St., London WC1X 0DW. web:
http://www.amnesty.org"

"Amnesty International 2001 Annual Report / Cuba
Amnesty International. 2001 Annual Report / Cuba

Covering events from January - December 2000

CUBA

Republic of Cuba
Head of state and government: Fidel Castro Ruz
Capital: Havana
Population: 11.2 million
Official language: Spanish
Death penalty: retentionist
2000 treaty ratifications/signatures: Optional Protocol to the UN Children's Convention on the involvement of children in armed conflict; Optional Protocol to the UN Women's Convention

Individuals and groups peacefully exercising their rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly continued to face repression. Some conditional releases of prisoners of conscience gave rise to hopes that the attitude of the Cuban government towards dissidents might be thawing, but new sentences and a serious escalation in repression during the closing months of 2000 discouraged such optimism. Journalists, political opponents and human rights defenders were subjected to severe harassment. Several hundred people, at least 13 of whom were prisoners of conscience, remained imprisoned for political offences. The authorities continued to use short term detention, house arrest, threats and harassment to stifle and discourage political dissent. The courts continued to apply the death penalty.

Background

In Cuba, repression of dissent is legitimized by the Constitution and the Penal Code. Some offences against state security, such as ''enemy propaganda'', as well as offences against authority, such as ''disrespect'', have been widely applied to silence critics. Others, like ''dangerousness'', are ill-defined and open to politically motivated misuse. At times, dissidents have been convicted of criminal offences believed to have been fabricated in order to discredit them or their organization or in retaliation for peaceful expression of their beliefs. Detained dissidents have on occasion been held for long periods without trial, or convicted after procedures that did not meet international standards for fair trial.

The US embargo against Cuba continued. The Cuban government has traditionally argued that it is justified in depriving dissidents of fundamental freedoms of expression, association and assembly in order to maintain the unity of the country against hostile forces abroad. Although AI's mandate does not permit it to take a position on the US embargo against Cuba or any other type of sanction, AI recognizes that the embargo has increased hardship within Cuba and has contributed, for example, to poor prison conditions. However, AI maintains that all states, irrespective of any external threat, are obliged to fulfil the duties laid out in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, including the duty to respect fundamental freedoms.

Prisoners of conscience

At least 13 identified prisoners of conscience were held at the end of 2000. AI was also investigating the cases of numerous possible prisoners of conscience, including a further 13 individuals arrested during the escalation in repression at the end of the year.

Angel Moya Acosta and Julia Cecilia Delgado were convicted of ''disrespect'' and sentenced to a year's imprisonment each after being detained in mass arrests that took place in the days leading up to the anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in December (see below).

Víctor Rolando Arroyo Carmona, a journalist, was sentenced to six months' imprisonment in January for collecting toys which he planned to give away to children. He was convicted of hoarding. His conviction appeared to be motivated by his work for the independent press agency Unión de Periodistas y Escritores Cubanos Independientes, Union of Cuban Independent Journalists and Writers, and his reported links with exile groups in Miami, USA, opposed to the government. His arrest in January took place during a period of clamp-down on dissidents, in the aftermath of the Ibero-American Summit in Havana. He was released in July after serving his sentence.

In July Nestor Rodríguez Lobaina, president of the unofficial Movimiento de Jóvenes Cubanos por la Democracia, Cuban Youth Movement for Democracy, was convicted of ''disrespect'', ''public disorder'', and ''damages''. Eddy Alfredo Mena y González, another member of the movement, stood trial with him on the same charges. Nestor Rodríguez was sentenced to six years and two months' imprisonment, while Eddy Alfredo Mena was sentenced to five years and one month.

Dr Oscar Elías Biscet González, president of the Fundación Lawton de Derechos Humanos, Lawton Foundation for Human Rights, a humanitarian organization considered illegal by the Cuban authorities, was sentenced to three years' imprisonment on 25 February. He was initially arrested on 3 November 1999 and charged with ''insult to the symbols of the homeland'', which carries a maximum sentence of one year's imprisonment. The charge was reportedly brought against him because he hung a Cuban flag sideways on his balcony during a press conference at his home on 28 October 1999. The prosecutor's petition against him, issued in February 2000, included two further charges - ''public disorder'' and ''instigation to commit a crime''.

Releases

Several prisoners of conscience were conditionally released.

Marta Beatriz Roque, Felix Bonne Carcasés and René Gómez Manzano, three of the so-called ''Group of Four'', were conditionally released in May. The four members of the Grupo de Trabajo de la Disidencia Interna para el Análisis de la Situación Socio-Económica Cubana, Internal Dissidents' Working Group for the Analysis of the Cuban Socio-Economic Situation, had been held in custody since July 1997. They were sentenced in 1999 to between three-and-a-half and five years' imprisonment on a charge of sedition, under state security legislation. The fourth member of the group, Vladimiro Roca Antúnez, remained in prison.

Orestes Rodríguez Horruitiner, sentenced to four years' imprisonment in 1997 for ''enemy propaganda'' was conditionally released in April after serving part of his sentence. He was prosecuted after publications considered by the authorities to be counter-revolutionary were found at his home.

Dissidents detained without trial

A number of members and supporters of opposition groups were detained without trial. More than 100 were rounded up and held briefly in the days around 10 December.

Maritza Lugo Fernández, vice-president of the unauthorized Partido Democrático 30 de Noviembre ''Frank País'', ''Frank País'' 30 November Democratic Party, was arrested on 23 December 1999. She planned to participate in a religious procession to celebrate Christmas but was detained along with six others, all of whom were released within a few days. She went on hunger strike twice in protest against her arrest and continued detention without charge. She was eventually charged with ''public disorder'', but was not tried. She was released on 1 June, more than five months after her arrest. Maritza Lugo Fernández was rearrested on 15 December and remained in detention at the end of the year.

Angel Moya Acosta and brothers Guido and Ariel Sigler Amaya, all members of the illegal Movimiento Opción Alternativa, Alternative Option Movement, were detained on 15 December 1999 after participating in a peaceful demonstration five days earlier in Pedro Betancourt village, Matanzas province, to celebrate the 51st anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Although they were charged with ''resistance'', ''public disorder'', and ''instigation to commit a crime'', no trial ever took place. Guido Sigler Amaya was transferred from prison to house arrest in June, and was freed in July. Ariel Sigler Amaya and Angel Moya Acosta were freed on 7 August. Angel Moya Acosta was rearrested in December and sentenced to one year's imprisonment for ''disrespect'' (see above).

Death penalty

Cuba maintains the death penalty for a large number of offences. At least eight people were sentenced to death by firing squad in 2000, and at least 20 people were under sentence of death at the end of the year. Concern about the death penalty is exacerbated by the authorities' failure to uphold their own guarantees of fair trial, particularly the right to adequate defence. It is difficult for AI to monitor application of the death penalty in Cuba as sentences and executions are rarely made public.

Jorge Luis Rodríguez Mir, who has consistently maintained his innocence, was sentenced to death for the murder of a policeman in November 1999. Jorge Luis Rodríguez Mir reportedly suffers from schizophrenia and epilepsy and while in prison mutilated his own hands so badly that they had to be amputated. According to reports, although his medical condition was considered at trial, the authorities decided not to take this into account when giving their verdict, in contravention of international standards.

Osmany Brito Cartaya, Alberto Díaz Pérez, Julio Alberto Morales Montero, Morlaix Nodal Pozo, Reidel Rodríguez Reyes and Héctor Santana Vega were all tried and sentenced to death in February 2000, following a December 1999 escape attempt from the Ciego de Avila Provincial Prison during which five prison guards died. The six men exercised their automatic right of appeal to the People's Supreme Court, which upheld the convictions and the cases then went before the Cuban Council of State. The men were held in Cuba's most secure prison, the National Special Regime Prison in Camaguey province.

Edimir Torres Sifonte was sentenced to death on 25 January for the rape and murder of a young woman. He appealed in May against his conviction, which was reportedly upheld.

José Hassán Rojas was sentenced to death for murder in July. His appeal was before the People's Supreme Court at the end of the year.

Prison conditions

Prison conditions reportedly continued to be poor and in some cases constituted cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. Many prisoners were said to be in poor health as a result of insanitary conditions and inadequate medical attention.

AI country reports and visits

Reports

Cuba : Short term detention and harassment of dissidents (AI Index: AMR 25/004/2000)
Cuba: Prisoners of conscience - New convictions overshadow releases (AI Index: AMR 25/021/2000)
Visits

AI last visited Cuba in 1988. Since then the government has not responded to the organization's requests to be allowed into the country.

Link to the Amnesty International library of documents on Cuba

© Copyright Amnesty International Publications 2001- ISBN: 0 86210 299 5 AI index: POL 10/001/2001
Amnesty International, International Secretariat,1 Easton Street, WC1X 0DW, London"

by pat c Wed Apr 09, 2003 13:19

"

Covering events from January - December 2001

CUBA

Republic of Cuba
Head of state and government: Fidel Castro Ruz
Capital: Havana
Population: 11.2 million
Official language: Spanish
Death penalty: retentionist

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A number of prisoners of conscience were released in 2001, but several new arrests indicated that the Cuban authorities had not renounced curbs on the peaceful exercise of freedom of expression, association and assembly. Short-term detention and other forms of harassment continued to be used to repress the activities of journalists, political activists and others. An unofficial moratorium on executions was said to be in force. No executions were reported during 2001, although the courts continued to hand down death sentences. The four-decades-old embargo against Cuba by the USA continued to contribute to a climate in which fundamental rights were denied. However, for the first time the USA sold agricultural commodities to Cuba in the wake of a hurricane in November. Both countries denied that this signified a change in overall relations. In November, UN General Assembly members voted overwhelmingly to condemn the embargo, for the 10th consecutive year.

Background

After 75-year-old President Castro fainted briefly during a speech in June, speculation grew about his eventual successor as Head of State. President Castro addressed the issue openly and publicly reiterated his choice of his brother Raúl Castro Ruz, First Vice-President and head of the armed forces, as head of a collective leadership structure following his own eventual departure from office.

UN Commission on Human Rights

After unprecedented campaigning, in April the UN Commission on Human Rights again passed by a narrow margin a Czech Republic-sponsored resolution on the situation in Cuba. A resolution critical of Cuba's record had been passed annually since 1992, with the exception of 1998. This year's text was more conciliatory towards Cuba; while stopping short of condemnation of the US embargo, it stated for the first time that UN member states should ''take steps to improve the economic condition of the Cuban people.'' The subsequent detention for nearly three weeks of two prominent Czech citizens on subversion charges was regarded by some as retaliation for the resolution. The two men were released after signing statements admitting that they had unwittingly broken Cuban law by meeting dissidents at the behest of a US-based organization.

Relations with the USA

In July the US House of Representatives voted to ease travel restrictions to Cuba, but President George W. Bush expressed his opposition to the proposed measure. In October, US lawmakers cut the relevant language from the bill, then before the Senate, thereby avoiding the issue for this year.

On the legal front, the US authorities released US$ 90 million in frozen Cuban assets in February as compensation to the families of three pilots shot down in February 1996 by Cuban jets. In June a US federal jury convicted five Cubans of working as agents for a Cuban espionage ring which had allegedly infiltrated military installations and Cuban exile groups in Florida. By the end of the year, four of them had been sentenced to prison terms ranging from 15 years to life. In September a US Defense Department intelligence analyst was arrested on charges of passing national defence secrets to Cuba; the Cuban government denied any knowledge of this. In September a retired Cuban immigrant living in Miami was arrested on charges of torturing Cuban political prisoners with electric shocks when he worked in a Havana psychiatric hospital several decades earlier.

Prisoners of conscience

The Cuban state continued to imprison critics for the peaceful exercise of their rights to freedom of expression, assembly and association. Limitations on these fundamental freedoms remained codified in Cuban law. A number of releases raised hopes that Cuba might be easing these restrictions and bringing its laws and practices into line with international standards. However, new arrests indicated that such hopes were premature. At the end of 2001 at least seven prisoners of conscience were held in Cuba.

In May, José Orlando González Bridón, Secretary General of the Confederación de Trabajadores Democráticos de Cuba, Cuban Confederation of Democratic Workers, was sentenced to two years' imprisonment for ''spreading false news against international peace''. This was apparently in retaliation for an article he wrote accusing the authorities of negligence in a domestic violence case. In September his sentence was reduced to one year by the highest court in Cuba, and he was released in November.

Detention without trial

A number of dissidents were held in detention for several months without trial before being released. They were prisoners of conscience.

Trade unionist Pedro Pablo Alvarez Ramos, General Secretary of the Consejo Unitario de Trabajadores Cubanos (CUTC), United Cuban Workers Council, was released in January after three months in prison without trial. He had been arrested in October 2000 by state security agents, apparently to prevent him from participating in the first national convention of the CUTC on 20 and 21 October 2000. Several other prominent trade unionists were briefly detained before the convention.
Leonardo Miguel Bruzón Avila was detained in December 2000 during a wave of arrests intended to prevent dissidents from participating in activities to commemorate the 52nd anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Leonardo Bruzón, president of the Movimiento Pro Derechos Humanos 24 de Febrero, 24 February Human Rights Movement, was reportedly held in the Technical Investigations Department, where he said he was handcuffed to the bars of a punishment cell while standing almost knee-high in water for four days. He was released on 1 February. He was rearrested in September after opening an ''independent library'' for children in his home; his family was threatened with eviction. He was released without charge after four days.

Medical concerns for detainees

There were continuing concerns about prisoners' lack of access to adequate medical care. The country's stock of medicines and materials was adversely affected by the US embargo. However, there were concerns that in some cases care was deliberately withheld from prisoners of conscience or other political prisoners as an additional punishment.

The family of Marcelo Amelo Rodríguez, aged 52, who died in custody in May after suffering from chest pains, accused prison officials of not giving him access to adequate treatment. Marcelo Amelo had been imprisoned in 1993 for rebellion and released in June 2000 after completing his sentence. He was later rearrested on different charges. There had been concerns about his health for several years.
Prisoner of conscience Nestor Rodríguez Lobaina was reportedly confined in close quarters with prisoners suffering from active pulmonary tuberculosis in Combinado de Guantánamo Prison, thereby putting him at risk of infection. Nestor Rodríguez was serving a sentence of six years and two months after having been convicted in February 2000 of ''disrespect'', ''public disorder'' and ''damage''.
Political prisoner Jorge Luis García Pérez went on hunger strike in April to protest at the lack of medical attention for various health problems. He ended his hunger strike after nearly one month, after the authorities allowed him to be examined by a lung specialist.

Continuing harassment of dissidents

The Cuban authorities continued to try to discourage dissent by harassing suspected critics of the government. Suspected dissidents were subjected to short-term detention, frequent summonses, threats, eviction, loss of employment and restrictions on movement. Harassment was at times carried out by state security agents or police officers, as well as by members of local groups such as the Brigadas de Respuesta Rápida, Rapid Response Brigades, or the Comités de Defensa de la Revolución, Committees for the Defence of the Revolution, set up in 1991 and 1960 respectively to discourage crime and dissident activities.

There were several incidents of verbal assaults against dissidents, most often by unidentified attackers. In some cases the homes of suspected dissidents were attacked by individuals throwing rocks or bottles, and in a few instances dissidents were said to have been punched or kicked by unidentified assailants in attacks that they believed were related to their political views or activities.

Rafael León Rodríguez, coordinator of the Proyecto Demócrata Cubano, Cuban Democratic Project, one of the organizations belonging to the Mesa de Reflexión de la Oposición Moderada, Table of Reflection of the Moderate Opposition, was reportedly evicted from his home in July following an apparent bureaucratic error. In spite of protests, Rafael León Rodríguez' home and belongings had not been returned to him by the end of the year. This led to concerns that the move was intended as punishment for his dissident activities.
Activists attempting to collect signatures for the Proyecto Varela, a petition for a referendum on legal reform, were subjected to threats, short-term detention, summonses, confiscation of materials and other forms of harassment by state security agents, police and other officials in a number of locations. At the end of November project organizers reported that they had collected over 2,500 voters' signatures; the law requires 10,000 signatures in order for a referendum to be held.

Death penalty

There were indications of a change in government policy on executions; no executions were reported to have been carried out in 2001. However, the death penalty was not legally abolished and in December the legislature reportedly reaffirmed its use against those convicted of the crime of ''terrorism'', the definition of which was said to have been expanded under new legal provisions. Courts continued to hand down death sentences. According to the Comisión Cubana de Derechos Humanos y Reconciliación Nacional, Cuban Commission for Human Rights and National Reconciliation, a non-governmental organization, approximately 50 prisoners remained on death row at the end of 2001.

AI country reports/visits

Reports

Cuba: Prisoner of Conscience José Orlando González Bridón (AI Index: AMR 25/006/2001)
Cuba: Medical Letter Writing Actions - Insufficient medical care for Jorge Luis García Pérez [Antúnez] (AI Index: AMR 25/003/2001 and AI Index: AMR 25/005/2001)
Cuba: Medical Letter Writing Action - Political prisoners in need of medical attention (AI Index: AMR 25/004/2001)

Visits

AI last visited Cuba in 1988. The government did not respond to AI's requests to be allowed into the country."

by kokomero Wed Apr 09, 2003 13:23

The Cubans do not have a monopoly on the death penalty or imprisoning their political opponents or depriving their freedom of speech.

We in Ireland deprived republicans of their freedom of speech for two decades under the guise of section 31 to name but one.

Finally, you may notice on re-reading my post that I did not suggest at any time that Cuba is perfect, however from what I saw people are free to voice their opinions as long as it is done discretely which is a lot freer than many other countries in South America or the wider world.

I do not wish to devalue the work of Amnesty or journalists either but this is not what I read in a report, I spoke with people on the ground in Cuba.

by snotty trot Wed Apr 09, 2003 13:27

You petty nuts, Just because your own ideology is too pathetic and incapable of producing a sucessful revolution, you waste your time criticising a sucessful revolution in Cuba. What wasters you are. Cuba was not a stalinist revolution. Stalin was dead when it happened for a start! (history as well as intelligence being in short supply in trot circles)
Perhaps you jealous wannabe revolutionaries will get your wish if your US child killer friends stage another Bay Of Pigs invasion of Cuba to restore the Batista 'democracy'!

by pat c Wed Apr 09, 2003 13:28

the fact that other states are even more repressive is irrelevant to what goes on in cuba.

are you seriously suggesting that the few people you met with in cuba are a staistical universe?
that your experiences are more representative than an Amnesty report?

by trot watcher Wed Apr 09, 2003 14:28

Snotty trot is dead right, when he asks the clowns above what sucessful revolution have they ever achieved? They are consumed by an irrational hatred for comrades Che and Fidel and waste no opportunity to attack the Cuban revolution. Who needs the USA with fools like those around.

by kokomero Wed Apr 09, 2003 14:28

I am simply not relying only on these sources.

Amnesty while a very noble organisation, but is not immune to political pressure to be "balanced" which is evidenced often in reports which come in quick succession denouncing first one side and then the other, even in cases where there is a glaring imbalance between the scale of injustice perpetrated on either side.

The whole Israeli-Palestinian situation typifies the compromise behaviour required of Amnesty in order to gain access and continue to carry out its work.

by pat c Wed Apr 09, 2003 14:40

are you seriously claiming that what amnesty has publisfed is untrue? if so, point to specific incidents.

your half writing off of the amnesty reports is meaningless unless you point out inaccuracies.

by kokomero Wed Apr 09, 2003 16:13

Pat C,

at no point did I suggest that Amnesty have/do/will/would publish untruths, however they do live in the real world the rest of us live in and life in this world is fraught with compromise.

I have no proof thereof but I strongly suspect that if Amnesty publish a report let's say on "Death Row" or the Guantanamo concentration-camp that they are "expected" by quid pro quo to be "balanced" by publishing a report which criticises some other country which in turn devalues the impact of the first report by spreading the blame around.

I have no problem with criticism and reports but synchronised criticism should be avoided so each case can be evaluated on its merits or the lack thereof.

This is my final comment. If you have one make one and let's leave it at that.

by pat c Wed Apr 09, 2003 16:18

i usually enjoy your postings and often agree with them. i just feel that people can do both the cuban people and themselves a diservice by closing their eyes to certain realities.

by bleeding liberal Wed Apr 09, 2003 17:31

If by some fluke a revolution had occured and the above nuts were able to take advantage of it and come to power ( I know this is far fetched!)They would have been toppled from power within a Year! But they would have got a clean Amnesty International report! This is of course the most important thing for these liberals.

by yuppie killa Wed Apr 09, 2003 17:44

Unlike the yuppies above Cuba is not playing a trendy game. That is why it has survived. Amnesty International is a trendy middle class group which has taken great pleasure in criticising Cuba in the past.

by Lone gunman Wed Apr 09, 2003 20:45

It is a prime example of the socialist workers paradise NOT working. It cost the Soviet Union appx 1.5million dollars a DAY to keep up the pretence that it did.It is corrupt,the evil USD is accepted alot quicker than the local currency.
There is as usual a upper class and a worker class.No guessing who of the collectivists are crusing around in Mercs.So it is so great that people risk their lives to get across sixty miles of shark infested water to get to the rotten US of A in anything that floats?? It is expensive.nothing cheap in that workers paradise.been there and found Serbia cheaper.
so no, I doubt that the US will invade it.let it fall apart by itself.The only fools who belive this system works are people like Gerry Adams,Micheal D Higgins,and deluded left wing lecturers,and kids with Che Guevara posters in the bedroom.

by hunter Thu Apr 10, 2003 01:05

maybe castro got "credible intelligence information" that these dissidents were planning a US backed uprising and implemented the new favoured doctrine of world imperialism - the preventative strike. perhaps he was showing solidarity with bush and friends.

seriously, castro is acting to defend his revolution, and wheter you agree with the Cuban system of socialism (i have my problems with it certainly, but will vocally defend it from imperialist attacks from within or without), you have to understand where castro is coming from.

cuba was on the axis of evil (part two) list, and invasion is not beyond the realm of possibility. maybe the US would like a nice little island war before going for the big boys like Iran, Syria or Libya.

cuba has its problems of course, lack of workers democracy, no free trade unions, and has now embraced the mighty dollar. however, i do honestly believe that cuba is one of the few places in the world that actually tries to look after its citizens. they have argubaly the best health service in the world (they definatley have in a relative sense the best - taking into account sanctions) and some of the best sports facilities in the world (to quote the manics "cuban boxers still win"). Compare this to our own little island and you feel sick.

The entire Cuban health service (serving 8 million people) is run on the same yearly budget as Beaumont Hospital (source: some beaumont guy on Marian Finnucane show a few months back), they have doctors in every apartment block, and health care is inexpensive (if not free). While here in Eire, a country of just 3.8 million, a health service in tatters, lack of investment, thousands being paid to 'consulatants' - not of the medical variety - and it costs bloody 40 quid to see the doctor. Just think what could be achieved if the illegal sanctions were lifted.

and personally speaking, if i ever had the oppurtunity to meet mr castro, i would have no problem shaking the man's hand.

by fake leftie Thu Apr 10, 2003 09:27

They are best ignored as almost nobody listens to them anymore, unlike the Cuban people they will never bring about change, they are only capable of bitching about Cubans and others who actually do something rather that talking and empty sloganeering.

by pat c Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:50

this is not about an attack on cuba, its about defending the right to dissent. i fully accept that the cuban medical services have performed miracles. There is also a criminal economic bockade of cuba being orchestrated by the US.

This does not excuse the fact that Cuba is a one party state.

by yet another liberal Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:51

Some of the hawks in the US regime are talking about imposing Jeffersonian Democracy on Iraq and other middle eastern countries. Maybe they will do the same in Cuba for Pat and the Trotskites and other liberals and who spend so much time lambasting the Cuban revolution.