Symbolic Victory on Wednesday night?

by conor (wsm personal capacity) Thu Apr 03, 2003 12:57

I don't think "victorys" come easy against 100 uniformed and about 50 riot cops. I was VERY impressed by the courage and persistence of the blockade there were many there who had never done anything like that before ! Many went back on again 3, 4, 50 times.

Both roads were occupied, reoccupied and reoccupied - at the end of 2 1/2 hours the 50 trained riot cops had gained aprox - 50 yards and there were as many people on the road as ever

this is good and my books - remember as well we are are starting from a fairly weak position with no tradition of EVEN symbolic blockades in this country since the 1980s - you can't get it all at once !

I think it was a good, empowering, symbolic protest - I think people were discplined and persistent and ALL the violenece came from the police

Its a start - that can be built on - I've had my criticisms of the IAWM GOD ONLY KNOWS but I think the Stewards did well and many joined in and put their money were there mouths were and joined in.

Sure with more advertising and maybe slightly more sitting down we might have done more but it was still worth while.

The "deal" was, to some extent, not comminicated very well to everyone. But it was an IAWM organised and stewarded event and that does mean that its up to them - at least the negoitiations were from a position of strength and that doesn't happen every day of teh week

over all I think the IMC report is good but some what negative

Conor

by Mags Thu Apr 03, 2003 13:19

What happened to them, have they been released after charge or is is DPP or what? Anyone know?

by Donal Thu Apr 03, 2003 13:29

This was a massive victory for the anti war movement. Over 1000 people faced down the forces of the state and won. The anti war movement escalated to mass peaceful civil disobedience. FF and the PDs are under seige.

The direct action in Shannon was also symbolic - I welcomed and supported Mary Kelly and others when they attacked the planes - but this was not going to stop the military use of Shannon.

The difference between the tactics of Aidan and other anarchists and the tactics of the anti war movement are this: do you organise elitist direct action decidied on outside the movement for the brave [macho?] few, or do you organise mass direct action decided democratically inside the movement as we saw last night. The first is done by people who don't beleive you can ever build a mass movement and convince the majority of people. The second is done by those committed to building a mass movement who understand that it is mass action not bravery or elitism that can beat the government.

The main entrance to the Dail was blocked for over 3 hours. It was made clear to the government that this movement is not going away - in fact it is growing in size and militancy.

I would encourage anyone reading this to get involved with your local group of the Irish Anti war Movement. Ignore the pessimism of the anarchists who have previously tried to split and wreck the anti war movement.

Phone the IAWM at 0876329511.

by Eoin O'M. Thu Apr 03, 2003 13:46

Good account Aidan and I agree that there was not enough organisation of the stewards. I saw one announcing something "controversial" and another asking him not to announce it. The stewards must be more organised and briefed before the next one. Briefed in the sense of:

if the riot squad do this, advise the crowd to do this
if the batons come out, don't do or say this

Remember that many there last night had not seen this behaviour before from the GS. My advice ot the movement is: determine a line between leading the protest and allowing people to make up their own minds, may be difficult but the movemewnt as a whole will be better for it.

And, yea, whoever has Joe's phone, please give it back...he's inconsolable.

by imcrrer Thu Apr 03, 2003 13:52

Donal what the fuck are you on about? GG heads were sitting arm in arm and being dragged away with joe H and other socialists and non aligned last night - same gg heads who were dragged away the day of Vote in dail - who is leading who here - fuck you about anarchists - most ppl involved in various da's are not anarchists or Socialists because they don't want to align themselves with either - One solution Evolution.

Aidan writes straight verite style article that acknowledges his perspective and asks interesting questions about what is going on in the Anti War Movement as opposed to IAWM

WSMMER comes in and congratulates your 'one solution revolution' gang and you try to bring up conflicts and abuse and ensure that your mob instead of anarchists get recriuts. Not that the anarchists are looking for any recriuts anyway. They're too busy actually like you know dialoguing with normal people and empowering them. Not setting up front groups hand over fist to recriut them and teach them to chant along with JC in an efficient and photo friendly manner.

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

by Aidan Thu Apr 03, 2003 14:22

When it doesn't work.

Connor I agree with all your points. Yes well organised, peaceful and good stewarding.

But a blockade which allowed tds to enter and exit the Dail, and barely see or hear protests just isn't a blockade, and that protest could have taken place on any street anywhere. Essentially all it did is block traffic it did not even inconvience TDs. I'd call it ineffective and promising.

Donal I'm not an anarchist. And I hate to point this out to You catholic worker/mary kelly DA have been the only effective anti war action so far in Ireland, three carriers left shannon due to security risks, as a result of their behaviour. So calling it "symbolic" just isn't true.

Donal I'm not trying to "split" or "wreck" the movement, criticism and discussion should be welcomed and used as something to help your movement to develop and grow.

This article was just my observation and opinion of the events. See You could write your own.

by ipsiphi - espai alliberat Thu Apr 03, 2003 14:49

Yesterday the Mayor of Barcelona the Socialist Clos met with representatives of the platform
"aturem la guerre".

He has confirmed the support of the municipal authorities for the campaign against the War.

The flags of the city, Catalonia and Spain will continue to be flown at half mast from the "Ajuntament" building.

However he has asked that the blockades and sitdown protests mostly attended by students and young people be co-ordinated in some way so as to avoid the disruption of Barcelona's normal working life.

Since the beginning of the War, there have been three occupational protest camps.

Everyday tens of thousands of students and workers from different faculties and unions have engaged in protest marches which have generally converged on the city centre.

Barcelona loses approx €8,000,000 a day to such disruption.

Thus the pacifists with their poorly co-ordinated "dis-organised" protests have wiped close to a hundred million € off the city's profit.

In exchange for less disruptive protests, Clos has agreed to allocate a "pacifist" dimension to the Forum 2004 which is the largest urban regeneration project in Europe.

It has long been a source of contention for groups interested not only in pacifism but also housing issues that the Forum2004 seeks to sell housing at €2,500 a square metre.

The Catalan Republican party ERC which operates a four party electoral alliance in Catalonia [with the two Green parties and one Socialist marxist block] has accordingly started a campiagn to register one million signaturies for a demand for social housing not only in the Forum2004 area but in Barcelona as a whole.

Last night "la Cacerola" lasted in central BCN from 22h00 to 03h00. Barcelona is known to be the third most noisy city in Europe. The Socialist mayor has been accused of allowing himself to be manipulated by the radical left parties by both centre right ruling party of Catalonia and the reconstructed fascist nationalist party PP (the party of Aznar), itself a marginal party in BCN.

The offices of the PP throughout the Peninsula have been consistently attacked since the declaration of War, and ore than fifty of these offices are thought to be non-functional.

A spokesperson for the PP has spoken at length on TV about the consistent attack on freedom of speech and democractic participation of the PP from the "radical left". The final phase of illegalisation of HB the Basque seperatist party is before the national courts, this policy the brainchild of Aznar's PP will seek to ban HB from reforming under another name and contesting future elections.

The 50 offices of the HB were closed by State order just short of the 25 year anniversary of the passing of the "democratic party laws" which saw Spain become a quasi-federal democracy in the 1970s.

by Terry - swp Thu Apr 03, 2003 15:52

I think it was a symbolic victory, the back door was a concern but did we have the numbers of people to blockade it. I don't think so.

However RTE at 1pm said that the garda actions were a propaganda victory for the anti war movement

by Aidan Thu Apr 03, 2003 16:09

And I want to stress this as my opinion.

The behaviour of the IAWN organisers who refused to inform the crowd about the presence of riot police was stupid, thoughtless and dangerous.

I'm certain that an portion of the group had no interest in confrontation, and had they been forwarned the could have stepped back from the demostration.

The IAWM should have shown more consideration and more thought, it is lucky no one was seriously injured.

by . Thu Apr 03, 2003 16:19

intransigent - get a life - nobody round here interested in your Ice-T fuelled fantasies

by OK - SP Thu Apr 03, 2003 16:32

I think that the stewards did well. Unfortunatly in a situation like that we dont know what the Gardaí are going to do. It's not always possible to have a blueprint for what's going to happen. We were 'briefed' beforehand. And I think without the stewards it would have been more nastier. Next time round we will probably need more stewards.

by TROTWATCH Thu Apr 03, 2003 16:57

The Stewards failed to warn participants of the imminent arrival of the Riot Police. The senior stewards were clearly aware of this.

It was not just lack of numbers. As usual you were playing games. This time it got out of hand and people you had misled got hurt.

by Jim Costello Thu Apr 03, 2003 17:06

With 'victories' like these the ruling class has absolutely nothing to fear.

by Aidan Thu Apr 03, 2003 17:12

I never said that, I'd like to think what occured was because of lack of experience and nervousness on the IAWM part.

by A Steward Thu Apr 03, 2003 17:18

it would make sense not to tell people that there are riot cops around the corner. The stewards were aware of this. Last thing thay wanted to do was cause panic. There was the chance that the Robocops were only for show.

by conor (wsm) Thu Apr 03, 2003 17:21

Ignore the pessimism of the anarchists who have previously tried to split and wreck the anti war movement.

Phone the IAWM at 0876329511.

related link: www.swp.ie

Just to note there were anarchists and many other people involved as there should be in any REAL mass action - it was a relatively sucessful action heres to more
- I find "Donals" comments small minded, childish and pathetic but no matter

- one of the excellent things about last night was the basic solidarity and that people from many groups and view points pitched in and that everyone got the point quite quickly and worked well together

not a bad start onwards to bigger and better and more effective actions

another pessimistic, splitting action will take place at TOP Oil aimien street this Saturday 3 pm ALL WELCOME

Conor

pesimistic anarchist !

by kitty-kat Thu Apr 03, 2003 17:26

I’m curious as to why that side of the Dáil was chosen, tighter, more corners, etc. I was early and came around from the National Gallery side there was so much more room. Question, not criticism. And yes, as early as 6:45 I saw stormtroopers getting kitted out, laughing & joking.
The events of last night and the subsequent broadcasting are much more of a propaganda success in the long term for the state as far as I’m concerned. Consider since May 6th the shikoloonies have not exactly cooled their jets, despite (brief) public outrage. The World Economic Forum will be here in October, by then the Irish Public will be well used to the SS dragging people (regardless of age, health etc.) along the street and cracking skulls with batons.

How many folks will bring their kids to the next one? The pigs sure aren’t ageist anyways.

by Aidan Thu Apr 03, 2003 18:46

That was very thoughtful of you.

Now next time why don't you allow people to make up their own minds, instead of assuming they're incontinent sheep.

Then maybe 80 year old women, children, and those wheelchair bound would have the opportunity, if they want to take it, of leaving the crush.

Your answer shows a fine mixture of arrogance and incompetence

by Aoife Ni Fhearghail - Irish Anti War Movement Thu Apr 03, 2003 19:20 info at irishantiwar dot org D6 087 7955013

given all that's going on i'm sure no one has time on their hands to read these threads down to here - but just in case

brief note to correct some of Aidan's points - there was a protest at the back entrance and surely a demonstration where the riot police are forced to withdraw by demonstrators is pretty successful - but no doubt Aidan has organised better

There was never any plan to march to Pearse St - focus of the demo was the government's support for the war - stewards were constantly attempting to determine whether any arrests had taken place as there was a legal support team on hand if needed - the 2 people arrested will get full support from the anti-war movement for the dropping of their charges - anyone who witnessed the arrests please email a report to [email protected] or ring me on 087 7955013.

Look forward to future anti-war demo organised by Aidan.

Aoife

by Badman Thu Apr 03, 2003 20:00

There's no point getting defensive when people raise constructive criticism. Such criticism can provide a useful way of explaining your strategy or even of improving it. The response "well I'd love to see you organise a protest" comes across as childish. Aidan's account is hardly a polemic against the protest, and it does include some valid questions. At this stage the anti-war movement is pretty broad with a myriad of different points of view. If you react to criticism with huffs then you are not going to be able to harvest any of the potential energy of this movement.

by boghger Thu Apr 03, 2003 23:38

no one cares about shannon because it was another failure.

we need to get the idea that shannon - the physical place - is moot. Shannon, the idea, is alive and well, or almost.

'Shannon' exists in every governemnt office now, as well as at Top Oil and other targets.

time to take 'shannon' to every TD and office that is responsible for letting ireland be an aircraft carrier for american imperialism.

shannon is moot.

long live shannon!

by Aidan Fri Apr 04, 2003 00:07

I am aware there was a protest at merrion sq, and went and saw it.

Under fifteen protestors (including Dubsky and Mary Kelly, not poster protestors for the IAWM) one IAWN steward, and more Gardai than you could shake a stick at.

Try and read this again Aoife, jour-na-lism, I reported what I saw, what I was told by Caoimhe, and gave my opinion on events.

Sorry you're so touchy about it......

by Sylvia Pankhurst Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:41

But surely a blockade on the dail or actions at Fianna Fail offices etc...is always going o be just symbolic. I don't understand the mechanism by which you force a change through doing this (perhaps there is one but it's not apparent to me).
Actions at Shannon - Make Security Threat - Cause Charter companies to pull out.
Actions at Top Oil - Hurt their profits - cause them to stop re-feuling U.S. military.
Some how I suspect the focus on Fianna Fail is partly to do with Labour, Sinn Fein, Greens and the next election.

by sean - GNAW personal capacity Fri Apr 04, 2003 13:33

What happened outside outside the Dail was a positive development on the whole. I have, like Aidan, some quibbles but what is important is that the IAWM has come around to the idea of pre-publicised non violent direct action. It is undoubtedly true that the IAWM has greater numbers and resources than any other part of the anti war movement and if the IAWM is willing to be a bit more courageous then they should be applauded for that. It is not about GNAW vs IAWM but a question of how we can make our protests as effective as possible.

by jaw jaw Fri Apr 04, 2003 16:26

But the swp are busy being nice to Des Geraghty for party reasons of their own and refuse to push for blacking US planes in Shannon. So it has been one of the least militant anti war movements in the world. The SP have taken a long time to start any real anti war activities and Sinn Fein it has to be said were very half hearted in their anti war activities.

by Junk - Sit on net all day organise nothing crowd Fri Apr 04, 2003 18:41

Aidan if your journalism, sorrry jour-na-lism, is your eyewitness account/opinion why did your journalism say you were not happy with the stewarding and then when Conor or someone else, say actually it was quite well stewarded you then said in a later comment- that actually it was well stewarded? i'm confused? If it was your experience/account of what you saw- how come it changed? If you saw it being badly stewarded at the protest- so be it- your opinion, but then when someone says well actually the stewards did well- you change your mind-and maybe what you think you saw. Your very sad!
By the way- it was brillant- good on the stewards who were at the frontline- during the first garda assault and still in there at the end.
Good on the IAWM!
Slán

by Phuq Hedd Fri Apr 04, 2003 20:01

QUOTE: why did your journalism say you were not happy with the stewarding and then when Conor or someone else, say actually it was quite well stewarded you then said in a later comment- that actually it was well stewarded?
ANSWER: I would assume that Aidan is trying to be generous and give credit where it is due. He specifically mentioned that the IAWM stewards were in the frontline protecting the rest of the crowd from the police-rioters. That's the bit where he says: "In the IAWM’s defence the front line of the sit down group (which had been pushed back past Buswells hotel at this point) consisted of IAWM stewards".

But although Aidan recognises and reports on the positive aspects he is also reporting on what he sees as the negative aspects, namely the refusal of the IAWM stewards to announce the arrival of the police-rioters

"She approached the PA and a senior IAWM organiser 'There’s a squad of riot cops getting rea…' She was cut off 'We’re not announcing that'. He didn’t hear her out and seemed like this wasn’t the first time this information had been passed onto them.",

and the lack of a serious attempt to blockade the other exits

"[CWM] approached IAWM organisers and pointed out that there was a very obvious back door to the Dail off Merrion Sq, and why hadn’t stewards moved some of the group around to the other side. If this was to be a blockade it seemed foolish to them, to leave a very obvious entrance and exit open. IAWM organisers curtly told them to 'stop trying to hijack their (IAWM) demo'. Obviously this was to be a symbolic blockade, then. Which to this reporter seems vaguely pointless."

It's not a simple case of the protest being either good-or-bad. It obviously had very good aspects and the IAWM did a good job in many respects, but it also had negative aspects. If you want a simple, biased piece of reportage then reader Socialist Worker or the Irish Times. There'll you find false objectivity, concealment of latent bias and spin.

Aidan has made his biases clear in this, calling into doubt whether or not it was a success from the start and yet has also given credit where appropriate.

It would appear that his reward for honesty is to be attacked as an anarchist and a armchair-virtual-net-activist (or something).

QUOTE:i'm confused?
ANSWER: Yes you are. You're looking for a simple rah-rah piece and instead got measured criticism. Sorry about that, but you're in the wrong place.

QUOTE: If it was your experience/account of what you saw- how come it changed?
ANSWER: Because it didn't. You're getting huffy about criticism and conflating Aidan's report with some of the comments below it.

QUOTE: By the way- it was brillant- good on the stewards who were at the frontline- during the first garda assault and still in there at the end.
ANSWER: Funny, that's what Aidan's piece said too. However it would appear that your "report" is much shorter than Aidan's and doesn't contain as much information.

SUMMARY: As someone that was absent from this I found Aidan's piece contained a lot more information than yours. Perhaps you could write up your counter-perspective?