Anti-Police Brutality Protest on Thursday & the SWP.

by grainne gilmore Wed May 08, 2002 23:37

I hope that everyone is out in force for the protest tomorrow, but it is imperative that it remains peaceful. The Gardai need an excuse. I'm concerned that they will deliberately try to provoke people into causing violence. I'm also worried that certain groups will try to capitalise on people's anger in order to cause trouble. We must not give the Gardai that excuse they so desperately need.

by jack Wed May 08, 2002 21:49

The kids on the street on Monday were representative of two things the working classes hate. They were agitated and educated - in their safe middle class way. The working class were at home reading the right wing tabloid dross or down the bookies keeping the middle classes in the comfort they're to which accustomed, throwing away their hard earned sheckels on the gee gees.

by Phuq Hedd Wed May 08, 2002 21:05

I think that all the disagreement and agreement and all the splitting and joining that goes on is a sign of healthy sincerity and individualism. All the slamming of dispute that you're engaged in is a call for people to just shut up and do what you and others tell them. No thanks. We all have to make up our own minds and take action and take responsibility.

I don't dismiss the class-background as irrelevant: I do dismiss your claim that it was all middle-class though. I further dispute that their being middle-class has relevance to whether or not what they're protesting for is good or bad.

The Paris Commune demonstrates clearly that the rabble has to stay on the streets. Similarly the Dix-huitieme Brumaire demonstrates that authoritarians have to be kept out of the picture whether they be Jacobins, Bolsheviks or Swoopers.

Again, more power to the people that were out there partying, don't mind the stick-in-the-muds like Malcom Little, change doesn't come by sitting at home waiting for the Revolution, it happens in the streets, Our Streets.

by Malcolm Little Wed May 08, 2002 20:53

Phuq Hedd, do you honestly believe that the class background of those involved in the RTS is of no relevance to the future of the 'movement'? If so then there is little I can say which will change your point of view. Don't get me wrong it's always nice to see people try and make a difference but you missed my point completely.

The fact of the matter is that the party/rotest/march or whatever it was on Monday was ostensibly anti-capitalist,and what is the anti-thesis of capitalism? Why it's socialism/communism of course a social system which organises and produces for collective need and not individual greed.

I don't want to be dogmaticbut the reality is the working class who will usher in this new world and not a bunch of transient middle class liberals passing through their radical phase. If they are truly interested in changing the world they need ot organise in working class communities and educate in those communities to awake the sleeping giant. The ostrich tactics of partying and pretending cpitalism isn't there will acheive little or nothing.

But please don't get me wrong I abhore what the Gardai did on Monday, but believe me they have been doing a lot worse in working class communities for decades. It's only now when they publicly assault the youth of the middle class that there is a media outcry.

The hard truth is that building a serious and lasting alternative to global capitalism will be neither peacefull nor good humoured. Which is why I am a little amused by all the in-fighting between the various sections of, and lets be honest they are overwhelmingly middle class, the Irish 'left'. When the time comes a lot, to be fair not all, of them will retreat to the safety of private property and privelaige rather than support the rising working class. But don't take my word for it, just look up the Paris Commune and draw your own conclusions!

Workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains.

Tiocfaidh Ar La

by Phuq Hedd Wed May 08, 2002 20:19

Did yez take a poll on the origins and backgrounds of the RTS partiers? Did ye feck! Even if it was a majority of "middle class faddists" what bearing does that have on the actual events?

Fact of the matter is that people that were having a peaceful good-humoured expression of their concern about the death and dismemberment of people by cars, the unhealthy pollution and unfriendly atmosphere of Dublin were violently assaulted.

The "discussion" which is taking place about what do do now and how to do it is vital. There is absolutely nothing wrong with criticising the SWP for trying to pretend that this is THEIR protest when it is not.

What you are calling for is for people to shut up and do nothing.

Thankfully very few will listen to you with your elitist and illogical denunciation of the partiers class background. At least they're doing something to try and make the world better. What are you doing?

We should be encouraging anyone that wants to try and improve things: you attack them (without any evidence, accusing them of being future employees of Trans-national Corporations) when you should be attacking all the lazy, smug people that couldn't get off their ignorant backsides to insists upon a better world.

Reclaim The Streets! They're Ours!

by Malcolm Little Wed May 08, 2002 19:56

Of all the enthusiastic RTS'ers there on Monday how many were working class? I am the first to admit that what the Gardai did deserves a strong response and I feel that this protest on Thursday is the only appropriate one, but I am amazed and not a little amused by the furor which this whole issue has caused here.

If all the liberal fadist middle class kids who were there on Monday are so opposed to Capitalism, what are they going to replace it with? And will it be their own "non-political", as some of the organisers insist on calling it, organisation which brings about this change?

I appreciate that the protest, or more accureatly the gadai's response, has performed the valuable service of throwing light on to this force which thinks itsef untouchable. But I have ot say that all the bickering which takes place amongst anarchists, socialists(be they SWP or not), and non-political RTS'ers is absolutely pointless.

Ye are all badly afflicted with the narcisism of small diferences but fear not in time you'll all join the labour party or go and work for a large TNC and then you'll have no more troubles. The future belongs to the workers and oppressed of the world, enjoy your little melodrama while it lasts.

Tiocfaidh Ar La.

by charlie braun Wed May 08, 2002 19:33 charliecwc at yahoo dot com

Even though RTS are not happy with the SWP hijacking there is really no point in not turning up to what is a reasonable protest against police violence just because of this.

They had this to say:

"Globalise resistance have called a demonstration for 6.pm Thursday at Pearse
st police station to protest at police brutality. We are not happy with the
way GR called this. But given that it has been called we think it is important
that it is attended by a large number of people and so encourage people to attend"
Some of the RTS organisers of Mondays event.

There is going to be some street theatre and other activities organised in the name of direct action, so it should still be good, and remember to verbally challenge any paper sellers.