Sparts: Defend North Korea's Right To Have Nukes!

by Spartacus Mon Apr 07, 2003 19:18

The campaign in defence of the Spartacists says: "Defend the deformed (AND degenerated) Spartacists right to use absurd slogans which are completely out of touch with reality"

by Intransigent Mon Mar 24, 2003 22:25

Do you remember Kronstadt?

by Froggy Mon Mar 24, 2003 13:32

back home in France at the beguinning of the Sans papiers movement (shit that was a good time ago). They came up with the most insane tactic against racism: close the borders! I even don't need to comment it.

by RED TERROR Mon Mar 24, 2003 12:05

The State Capitalist Theory is a load of rubbish!

Are you honestly suggesting that the USSR was a capitalist state! That's wrong!

The Russian Revolution did create a workers' State, although due to the conditions of the time in Russia it was not democratic in the manner that those who fought for it wished. The USSR and the other deformed workers states were based on state ownership. The commanding heights of the economy were under state ownership, the problem was that the state wasn't run democratically!

This Cliffite/SWP non-sense about State Capitalism doesn't stand up at all. Cliff only came up with this notion because of his desire to appeal to middle-class liberal student types.

by simon Mon Mar 24, 2003 03:18

only a very large capitalist company would pay its staff better. the idea of supporting any drive for nuclear weapons is absurd, was this a joke? can communists be funny?
how many communists does it take to change a lightbulb?

by VIL - SWSS Sun Mar 23, 2003 20:27

North Korea is state capitalist, state ownwership of production like one giant boss, planned economy based on accumulation due to competition (militarly and industrially) with other countries, much like the way a boss can plan his factory. Internal planning within unit but competing with other units. Property relations is the key to understanding it not ownership. workers own nothing , must sell labour to state, who control everything but are forced to accumulate and therefore push productivity and wages/prices. Is there much difference between that and a very large capitlist company?

by Mags Sun Mar 23, 2003 20:25

I'd heard about this poster being seen on 15th Feb and when I got sight of it yesterday I took a few pics. But I'll just have to get one of them newfangled modern digitally camera things though, 'cos redjade got here first :(

Evil Dave - the Sparts have nothing to do with Sparatcus, who was a sound lad by all accounts.

Also I dunno what you mean by debating reasonably with the Sparts - but you could try if you like. Good Luck!

by Myrna G. Sun Mar 23, 2003 18:40

Perhaps its its the radiation from the nuclear weapons programme thats deforming the workers.

by Evil Dave Sun Mar 23, 2003 17:27

It's not a very good one but it exists there somewhere.
In the current world order the only Guarantee not to be invaded is to have the ability to defend yourself and Nuclear weapons in the hands of a lunatic like Kim 11 are a pretty strong deterrent.
Of course the aim of any sane person is to have total global nuclear disarnament but until America stop expanding their military and continue to threaten Agression against other countries it is a valid arguement to defend N Koreas right to defend themselves.
I'm not a member of Spartacus and i have huge problems with many of their policies but i don't think debasing them like that is going to achieve anything, reasoned debate on all issues is the only way forward (at least before the time comes to act)

by Kalid Farouk Sun Mar 23, 2003 17:21

The North Korean government is a barbaric regime, everyone can see this. But they do have a stae owned and planned economy, although it is totally undemocratic. If the US were to invade North Korea they would restore a capitalist system in North Korea which would not be of any benefit to the people of North Korea. I say we on the left should call for a political revolution in North Korea to overthrow the undemocratic and authoritarian regime as well as defence for the state owned assets in North Korea. We should also call for US troops out of The Korean penninsula.

by Wild Irishman Sun Mar 23, 2003 17:03

By "Deformed Workers' States are they saying that they acknowledge...
...the imperfection of the "Workers' States" and that those states do not measure up to the aspirations of those who fought so hard to establish them?
...and that those states have been deformed by the rulers of those states?

Or are they just trying to extend the "right to keep and bear arms" as guaranteed in the US constitution?

by Spart lover Sun Mar 23, 2003 16:52

Unfortunately they didn't try to start a chant of "free abortion on demand" as they did on February 15. I love those guys.