Let's get Bertie -PUT YOUR MONEY where your mouth is.

by citizen iosaf Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:36

This really is a good idea.
As the readership will know the threat of such suits hangs over many heads, and has been used to much effect before. Little Rascal citizen Bertie might very well end up pleading senility or diminsdhed responsibility.
...oh yes, we shall still be there when the prostrate drops.

by Tim Hourigan Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:47

This can be adapted. some of it is from my own personal observation. I wrote it up in a fit of outrage so forgot to include more TDs in it, and didn't include references to more of the international law (it's still a valid complaint thought)

This was submitted to Shannon Garda Station last December.

Hope to have it updated and beefed up in the next few days. (help appreciated)
-------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
Satement of: TIMOTHY HOURIGAN
Of:
Date of Birth : 17 December 1975
Occupation: Peace Activist.

----------------------------------------
Report of Criminal Activity taking place at Shannon
airport, Shannon, Co. Clare, and also at the offices
of the Taoiseach, Minister for Foreign
Affairs, and Minister for Transport.

I, Tim Hourigan, am making these allegations in all
seriousness and with genuine concern. I have no
intention of wasting police time. I am making
serious allegations about serious and worrying
crimes.

I believe these crimes to include:
* Treason against the State, by means of wilful and
deliberate violation of articles 28.3.1 , 28.4.1, amd
29.3 of the Irish Constitution.
* Aiding and abetting a war crime, by means of
facilitating unlawful landing of military personnel
and hardware at Shannon airport, and passage of same
through Irish airspace.

The primary facts of the case are as follows:

The Irish Government is participating in an horrific
war by facilitating the refueling and overflight of
military flights using Shannon airport and Irish
airspace.
Article 28.3.1 of the Irish Constitution states that
"War shall not be declared, and the State shall not
participate in any war save with the assent of Dail
Eireann."
Dail Eireann has not even voted on this issue and
has not given assent to participate in any war. The
Taoiseach, and others have, without legal
authority, allowed a belligerent foreign power,
namely the United States, to use Irish airspace and
at least one Irish airport while engaged in a massive
military campaign.
This is contrary to article 28.4.1
"The Government shall be accountable to Dail Eireann"
and article 29.3
"Ireland accepts the generally recognised principles
of international law as its rule of conduct in its
relations with other states".
Other people, including the Minister for Foreign
Affairs, Brian Cowen TD, former Minister for
Transport, Mary O'Rourke, her successor, Minister
Seamus Brennan TD, are co-perpetrators.
Controlling members of Aer Rianta are obviously
accomplices in this crime.

I refer specifically to US military flights and
landings from September 12, 2001 onwards. The fact
that the US and other military aircraft occassionally
used the airport for peacetime activities is
irrelevant. This was not part of a war and not a
breach of article 28.
Our Constitution prohibits us from assisting a US
war on Afghanistan or any war on Iraq without a vote
of support in Dail Eireann.
According to Dail records, and various TDs with whom
I have spoken, there has been no such vote.
The War in Afghanistan began in earnest on October
7th 2001. It has seen a massive and brutal bombing
campaign by the US Air Force. A report on the
casualties is included with this statement. It
estimates that at least 3,105 civilians have been
killed by this bombing campaign.
The US ambassador to Afghanistan has referred to the
military actions in Afghanistan as a war, and it has
been repeatedly referred to as such by
George W. Bush.
Our country is being used to participate in this
war. I, and others, have observed many US military
aircraft passing through Shannon, as well as many
chartered aircraft under contract to US Air Mobility
Command. These aircraft have carried a large number
of US military personnel through Shannon who
have been dressed in desert combat uniforms,
including members of US Special Forces. Other flights
have carried an unknown quantity of military hardware,

which I do not believe has been inspected by any Aer
Rianta official.
We also know from information contained in a letter
from the Department of Foreign Affairs (Oct 26th
2001, in reply to Parliamentary Question 148 of
Oct 16th) that military aircraft transiting Irish
Airspace included the A-10 "Warthog /Thunderbolt"
attack aircraft as well as F-16 fighter-bomber jets.
We believe this is facilitated by the use of mid-air
refueling tankers, such as the KC-130 which we have
photographed at Shannon.
I have pointed out the illegality and immorality of
these activities to the Taoiseach (in person in April
of this year, while in the company of Willie O'Dea TD,
and by letter to the Taoiseach's office at Dail
Eireann). In neither case, have I received a direct
repsonse to these matters.
It is my belief that the Taoiseach, with the help of
others, has undermined the Constitution - one of the
key components of the State, and the highest law of
the land.
He has wilfully destroyed the neutrality of the State
and damaged our foreign relations to an extent that I
believe has increased the threat to Irish citizens
and Shannon airport. He and his co-perpetrators have
also subverted the accountability of the Government to
the Dail, the Constitution, and the People.
I believe this amounts to Treason against the State.
Again, I repeat, these are serious allegations of
serious crimes. They have affected the rule of law in
this country, and the accountability of those
possessing high office. These acts have also
contributed to the deaths of thousands of innocent
civilians in Afghanistan.
I would expect that the Garda Siochana will make
every effort to pursue an URGENT CRIMINAL
investigation of these matters.
I believe that it is relevant to four of the Key
Service Concerns of the Garda Siochana
~ Guarding the security of the State
~ Investigating and detecting criminal offences
~ Preventing criminal offences
~ Safeguarding human rights and dignity

by Straight Talking Thu Mar 13, 2003 13:10

if our governemnt was so bad wouldnt something like indymedia "disappear"

bertie is putting the dole money in your pocket, paying for your eductaion, etc etc

by Sparks Thu Mar 13, 2003 13:21

If our government was so bad, wouldn't peaceful protestors against street violence get beaten up? Wouldn't the freedom of information be muzzled tightly? Wouldn't the police be given wide-ranging powers with no independent checks or oversight? Wouldn't bribery and corruption play a large role in government and policing? Wouldn't the health system be largely ignored except for the rich? Wouldn't large monuments to the leader of the country be built with money that was needed for social projects like education and healthcare? Wouldn't education be sidelined and cut back so that no "intellectuals" would arise? Wouldn't the leader of the country have faked academic qualifications without reprimand? Wouldn't the government run through it's own legislation without consultation or even bothering to turn up for the debate process? Wouldn't crime be out of control? Wouldn't troops be deployed against the civilian population? Wouldn't the cost of living be far too high? Wouldn't housing be unaffordable to the poor, and a massive economic burden to the young? Wouldn't the government be selling off stock in state-owned companys for far too much, thereby taking large numbers of the population for a chunk of their life savings? Wouldn't terrorists and gun runners be holding public office without shame? Wouldn't transport be a shambles? And wouldn't the constitution be an inconvienent document, regularly circumvented by semantic debate?

Well?

by Rob Thu Mar 13, 2003 13:32 petitionof1 at runbox dot com

What needs to be focussed on now is getting the message out to people. I would propse the piecing together of a leaflet for distribution at the Paddys day parades. A non-affiliated information leaflet containing information on what people can do to counter the war drive. Maybe the inclusion of a form to this effect for people to fill out and take to their local guarda station.
Such a piece can be quite easily designed for photocopy or quick and easy distribution, and I can offer what services I posess as graphic designer. The idea needs to get out to a mass audience, who - from observation - really do want to do more but seem powerless or too restricted by the amount of groups emerging to which they don't belong. The leaflet idea needs a bit more thought but that can be clarified quite easily, people need to know that there is plenty that can be done on an individual basis, legally and without the need for major organisation, cost or time on their part.
I think this is a fantasic idea, exactly the kind of thing I was looking for myself.

by pete ranks Thu Mar 13, 2003 13:49

well I'll be doing this too methinks, I love getting the chance to walk voluntarily into a garda station.......

by Glen Moran Thu Mar 13, 2003 13:54

Precisely what good would shutting down indymedia achieve apart from removing an easily monitored area where "malcontents" can have their opinions read by the powers that be? For that matter, what super secret plans are posted here to even warrant the removal of the site?
Indymedia and its ilk are advantageous to the government and right wing media outlets in that they can easily see which way the leftist wind is blowing and prepare to counter it well ahead of time.

by Sparks Thu Mar 13, 2003 13:54

You'd want to distribute those leaflets prior to the 17th, given that that's the date most likely to see the initiation of the invasion.

by Anonymous Thu Mar 13, 2003 14:08

Great idea Tim. Even if you never succeeded in getting a charge brought against him, the fact that it is now with the DPP, is great fodder for the media.

I reckon you should contact both national & local media alike and I'm sure a few of 'em would run a story on it.

by ipsiphi Thu Mar 13, 2003 14:59

to smile from little ear to little ear
the day little rascal Bertie gets his
traditional termed "come-up-ance".
(well that's properly my supersecretobjective...I'm just testing the authorities)

by Tim. Thu Mar 13, 2003 15:12

Much as I dislike replying to cowardly nameless trolls, some of them are so spineless and dimwitted that I can't resist.
-------------------------------
Tim you are talking shit
by Straight Talking Thu, Mar 13 2003, 12:10pm

>if our governemnt was so bad wouldnt something >like indymedia "disappear"

Our government is kept in some form of check by the knowledge that they will get flak for it from an outraged public. Aware and vigilant citizens are the only viable check on any regime.
Nothing you have was ever openly given by a government. Right to vote was DEMANDED and won, same for 5 day weeks, maternity leave etc, free health care, you name it, if its a civil right, someone before you marched for it and won it FOR YOU.

>bertie is putting the dole money in your pocket, >paying for your eductaion, etc etc

I do not receive the dole.
I am not a student.
I did get an education, and it got me a well paying job as a fund accountant which saw me pay LOTS of tax, and where are the good hospitals I paid for? How come the primary school I attended had to close because the floors are rotting?
For people on the dole, Bertie is not paying them. the taxpayer is. and a lot of people on the dole are former PAYE workers, who got fucked over by FF/PD policies.

by Tim Thu Mar 13, 2003 15:44

One can safely cite the statement by 70 solicitors and barristers about the Government's complicity in the war.

In Irish law, anyone complicit of an offence is guilty of the offence.

If the Irish legal system does not do its duty, we could go the the recently set up International Criminal Court.

Human shields.

if you work or live in Shannon or near Casement then the following applies to you.

Results of the Rome Conference
for an International Criminal Court

ARTICLE 8 WAR CRIMES
(xxiii) Utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations;

Bertie, Harney and Co have NO way out of this because of Article 27:

ARTICLE 27 IRRELEVANCE OF OFFICIAL CAPACITY
1. This Statute shall apply equally to all persons without any distinction based on official capacity. In particular, official capacity as a Head of State or Government, a member of a Government or parliament, an elected representative or a government official shall in no case exempt a person from criminal responsibility under this Statute, nor shall it, in and of itself, constitute a ground for reduction of sentence.
2. Immunities or special procedural rules which may attach to the official capacity of a person, whether under national or international law, shall not bar the Court from exercising its jurisdiction over such a person.

Laws of War :
Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land (Hague V); October 18, 1907
Generally referred to as the 1907 Hague Convention

Art. 2.
Belligerents are forbidden to move troops or convoys of either munitions of war or supplies across the territory of a neutral Power.

Art. 5.
A neutral Power must not allow any of the acts referred to in Articles 2 to 4 to occur on its territory.

Since I made my statement, Gardai and Airpor Police have (under Oath and before Judge Joseph Mangan at Tulla District Court on Dec 18th 2002)
stated that none of the military flights have ever been inspected.
APO inspector Hickey said that there was at least one military flight during each 8 hour shift.

tens of thousands of troops in desert cammo have come through Shannon.

John Jeffries, a reputable plane spotter states he saw B-52 bombers over Cork in the past fortnight. (probably the ones going to RAF Fairford in advance of Gulf deployment)

I PERSONALLY saw a B-1 Bomber ON ACTIVE DUTY over Galway. I was informed by US military personnel that it was on ACTIVE DUTY.

We would also like to know if the requirements of the Radiological Protection act 1991 are being met, given the capability of B-52s and B-1s to carry nukes, and the likelihood that Depleted Uranium munitions have been transported through Shannon.

More to come.

Assault.

If the landing or overflight of foreign military aircraft or aircraft involved in the illegal military activity agression caused you fear, then you may have been assaulted. Assault not only covers battery but an action that instills fear in a person.

by Maggie - Global Women's Strike Thu Mar 13, 2003 16:22

sounds great. Just to remind also that women carried out a similar
action after the US went to war in Afghanistan, co-ordinated by
Women in Media and Entertainment in Galway but with participation by
women in several towns and cities.
Involved women walking into garda stations and indicting Bertie for war crimes.
It's with the DPP, as ever, and despite repeated requests we still have no answer on
that. Still considering it... This is not to say that it's pointless to do, great if you co-ordinate a mass action around this, and as you say, if there's no answer from
the DPP, we can say we exahusted this option.

by Straight Talk Thu Mar 13, 2003 17:56

but i will fight my own battles, i dont need you trying to arrets our elected (yes he was elected) leader becuase you dont like his policies in my name. if the public dont like with ff/pd are doing we will have plenty of opportunites to hurt them in the ballot box. this is much more effective than trying to arrest him.

but look at the opposition to him

FG: the blue shirts are goners
Lab: Will never be forgiven for proping up FF
WP: The wha?
SF: Ever here of a song called Cows with Guns, suits SF really
Ind: No organisation
SWP: now they are just plain loopy
SP: Working class champion will never appeal to the middle classes
Greens: Save the trees pay more taxes, real appealing

So i cant see FF getting stuffed in the local elections or bertie doing a few years in the joy?
More chanceof OJ Simpson being done for murder!

The govt needs to be kept in check but who is going to take any serious notice of sites like these say "arrest bertie"

by Tim Fri Mar 14, 2003 01:10

Yes, I actually got one of the indict Bertie leaflets from Margaretta D'Arcy.

It was a very good idea (other than the fact that all the men who lodged one had to amend it because it was needlessly gender specific - and it had little legal reference in it)
There was not a whole lot of energy in the opposition in that early stage.
It has a better chance now because of all that's gone between.

Rather than having a leaflet like that, I found it more useful to get it down on official Garda statement paper, and signed by a Garda, witnessed and copied.
getting it onto official paper makes a difference.
I was so persistent that they just gave me the blank sheets to fill out rather than spend half an hour taking my statement.

I took the paper, wrote my own statement, and then brought it back, unsigned and undated
I signed and dated it in front of a Garda witness, who signed it and logged it while I watched. (that way they don't get to chuck it in the bin)

once that is done, you can call by periodically (once a fortnight should suffice) to see if there is any response from the DPP.

by Bigfoot Fri Mar 14, 2003 04:36

I disagree with you but I must say it takes guts to do that.

by Anonymous Fri Mar 14, 2003 11:49

"Straight Talk". If the courts do not agree with what Tim is saying, they will not arrest him. If they agree they will arrest him.

Yes a minority of the public elected him, but this is a matter for the courts to decide.

Haughey of course always should also have served plenty of time. Going by your argument, because the public elected him (again a minority) he should not have been arrested.

Regards...

by Straight Talk Fri Mar 14, 2003 17:30

if people dont want to use them what can we do? we can complain about our political leaders but if we dont get people out to vote then we can complain

by Tim Sat Mar 15, 2003 04:30

That's a crap substitute for proper justice.
That's what Pat Kenny said on the Late Late to RBB and Aoife.
"sure if you don't like them you can vote them out in four years"

FOUR YEARS? How many people will be slaughtered, incinerated by the time the next election comes around?

I hear people saying "make the punishment fit the crime"

What type of proportionate punishment is it to reduce a corrupt and criminal government to being a corrupt and criminal opposition,
or, perhaps, - retired politicians with cosy pensions?

You write about democracy. There's more to it than getting to vote every few years.
Allegedly, in a democracy NOBODY is above the law.

If "Straight Talking" believes in democracy, then surely (s)he believes in applying the law.
If a sitting TD commits a crime then they must answer for it.
That's not sedition or revolution.
That's protecting democracy - by keeping its officials bound by the rules by which they claim the right to govern.

Liam Lawlor's short stint in the joy was nothing more than a small step in the right direction.

If you believe in democracy, then you should support this>
Jail criminal politicians, if that substantially diminishes the cabinet or Dail, then it should be dissolved so fresh elections can be held to fill the vacant seats.

Voting is not the start and end of our participation. These politicians are supposed to serve us, not the other way around.
Can you imagine working for a boss who can only decide to fire or keep you at a review every four years, and who doesn't have a say in your self-awarded pay rise?

If you want to keep and improve democracy in this country you really need a system for impeachment proceedings and a formal system whereby the voters can formally revoke a mandate if an official breaks the contract made at the ballot box.

No power without responsibility, no office without accountability. but there will be no accountability without a watchful and informed public.

JAIL CORRUPT POLITICIANS.

by Tim. Sat Mar 15, 2003 10:33

http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=34348

by Tim. Sat Mar 15, 2003 10:38

sorry, wrong link... lack of sleep...