Teachers against War

by Redmond O'Laoire Mon Mar 10, 2003 21:33

The teachers involved in this event are setting a very bad example to their pupils; they are in effect suggesting that the international community should ignore the threat that a monster like Saddam Hussein poses to international and regional stability. Not to mention the negative effect such activities will have on the friendly countries like the U.S. whose assistance to Ireland over the decades is almost incalculable. Every honest and patriotic citizen in our country should support the firm stand taken by leaders such as President Bush and Prime Minister Blair against dictatorship and international terrorism. The government of Bertie Ahern is following the correct policy and is to be applauded for the firm stand they took against the subversive elements who attempted to disrupt the running of Shannon airport on March 1.

by Chris Henry - Socialist Youth Coleraine Mon Mar 10, 2003 21:54 lavosfanfiction at hotmail dot com

Quite a patronising and ridiculous viewpoint, I think. So teachers should be discouraged from voicing their opinions? I thought that was a democratic right, or perhaps that passed me by. Also, I think that pupils are generally capable of making up their own minds whether they are for or against the war in Iraq. I suppose if we all jump behind Bush and Blair without any form of opposition, that wouldn't have quite the damaging effect on school pupils? As for patriotism, I stand up for the people of my country on a daily basis. That doesn't mean adhering to the policies of the government without questioning them; patriots don't sacrifice themselves in the face of a supposedly greater body than themselves. Only a fool does that. Without getting into a whole anti-war tirade (because at the end of the day, we all know the arguments) I should say that it is the democratic right of all citizens to voice their opinions concerning any matter of public interest. Some in the pro-war camp would seemingly do well to remember this. You may not like the protests, but accept them and get on with whatever it is you do; if you truly accept democracy, than accept the right to an anti-war argument without bringing buzzwords like "patriotism" into the mix. The anti-war movement is not a movement of appeasement; it is a movement of freedom and democracy, and one that looks to oust Saddam in a different way than the ideas posed by Bush and Blair. Sadly, there are many out there who believe that the anti-war movement is pro-Saddam.

by TP - Youth Against War Tue Mar 11, 2003 01:24

Will 'Teachers against the War' back the planned school student walk out against the War called by Youth Against War for this Friday lunchtime?

It would be ideal if the teachers backed any students willing to take action as there are reports from the North that many teachers physically prevented students leaving to rallies organised by Youth Agaist War.

It would also be fantastic if 'Teachers Agianst War' initiated and suggested the walkouts to students in their schools.

by Other Tue Mar 11, 2003 03:13

They may have opinions but they are easily swayed by demagogues. That's why they are being edcuated, that's why they are not allowed to vote.

It's a pathetic and cynical tactic. Can't the antiwar people find enough adults who agree with them?

I think not, your incoherent rambling anti-American propangda cuts little ice with most adults.

by ollie - Katalyzer Tue Mar 11, 2003 03:58

other: 'your incoherent rambling anti-American propangda cuts little ice with most adults.'

Most adults are against the war

other : 'They may have opinions but they are easily swayed by demagogues'

So we baptise them before they can speak! Are you suggesting banning all religion from schools until the age of consent? If not, why not? And how would a religion class or an english class in any half decent school be without some 'topical' discussion?

Anyway, wear black on paddies day and do whatever else you think appropriate to oppose this potential war...that's not to suggest that the last war on Iraq ever officially ended : no fly - for Iraqi airforce that is - zones have been bombed on numerous occasions over the last 12 years, Depleted uranium has caused and will continue to cause cancer and unspeakable birth deformaties for many, many generations and sanctions...if ever there was a weapon of mass destruction....

Teachers teach their pupils about the world. And they have a right to organise themselves into perfectly normal (ie the cause is supported by...let me see now...'most people') political groups. Nothing groundbreaking in that...'other'...

by colm Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:21 corkteachersagainstthewar at hotmail dot com

Just to let you know Deirdre that Cork Teachers are also organising. The third meeting of Cork Teachers Against the War will take place also on Thursday night at 8pm in the Rob Roy bar in cork city. All teachers welcome (Secondary, Primary, retired, TEFL etc.) I will contact you soon re communication between the groups. Our e-mail address is above if you know any interested teachers in the Cork area.
colm.

by ipsiphi Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:49

I always thought I and my colleaugues had a responsiblity to prepare the younger generation for their full and equal participation in society something on occasion called the "meritocracy", as a teacher though I can not but have helped notice that the "meritocracy" is a lie. The opportunities open to my students depend very much upon the area they live in and the suplementary costs of private education or tutoring their parents can afford.
I had always been under the impression that no matter the subject the student through their relationship with their teacher learns about practical application of ethics and morality.
It is I believe the hope that our students/pupils learn something from our life experience as well as absorb the "facts, formulae and dates" of our subject or expertise.
If one of my students is accepted by a "premier league" university I am not more pleased than if they go on to live their lives with due respect and deference to others in their society.
I find it very difficult to teach a new generation "the truth" of the past, of their families past and then write a watershed line accross the cumalative piles of wrongs commited in "good faith" against their parents grnadparents and as of yet unborn children.
I can not say to my students "and then history stopped, all the tyrants disappeared and the great and good guided our civilisation for the thousand years to come with wisdom and justice".
I can not say it as it is not true.
I can not face a group of students from many different backgrounds (social, ethnic, religious) and say "democracy is safe" "democracy was won for your people for us at some point in the late nineteen nineties".
it is not true.
I can not face my mixed ethnic, mother tongue students and say "ignore the conversations you hear in your home, your parents are wrong".
I can not say to my students
"you and your communties are being governed justly and wisely, the breaches of that Human Rights charter we have on the wall next to the EU flag, are just necessary provision we all need to ensure that none of you grow up into being terrorists"
I can not say to my students that the policy of Bush is the correct one. I can not face a group of students some of whose parents have fled as economic refugees from South American countries that "THE US POLICY IS THE CORRECT ONE IT IS THE WAY OF DEMOCRACY".
No, Raymond O´Laoire I can not.
and nor can any of my colleagues or peers.
does this mean I spend every working hour teaching fomenting rebellion?
no it does not.
At 12.30 today I go to give a class in the university, in three years my students themselves will have qualified to teach 7 year olds in a state education system that is introducing against all wishes of parents and teachers a "education quality program" which is a pale imitation of "Texan" notions of meritocracy.
They went on strike the other day, they will again on March13 and March14. I have no need to tell them why. They knew why before they had left school. And it is a sign of the success of education so underfunded in our "Europe" of Aznar, Burlosconi, Blair, Ahern that these young people have chosen a career in teaching over any other option open to them.

Would you prefer a world Mr O´Laoire where teachers need turn the picture of "our Leader" to the wall?

That was the world of Europe in the thirties.
Neither I nor any of my colleauges or any of those who we now prepare to follow us will ever allow that to happen again.

In short a day out striking learning community values could be thought of as equivalent to the nursery age romp in the park looking for autumn leaves.

by Shane Kenna - Socialist Youth/ Party Tue Mar 11, 2003 17:29

I think it would be excellent if teachers did recommend to their students that they walkout on the school student protests, it would show a clear sign to the government that their support for war would not be tolerated.

A better scenario would be for teachers to withdraw their labour as a protest against this war, its looking like its going to kick off soon. If 50% of the teaching profession in Ireland were to stop work completely - rather than a work to rule they could very easily make a powerful statement and be an example to other workers.

by iosaf Tue Mar 11, 2003 22:55

but never our vocation.
and there in lies something.
Tús maith leath na hoibre.