Letter from Prison

by the singer not the song Tue Mar 11, 2003 23:53

For the poor of the world their first taste of mercy, kindness, rebellion, freedom and uprising, is the CATHOLIC WORKER. There are many priests, nuns working in shanty towns, slums all over the world, who inspire and encourage shanty town, slum dwellers and the poor of the world to rebel, and fight against poverty and oppression, for basic human dignity and rights. In latin america, revolutionary nuns and priests were disappeared and murdered along with the peasant villagers they protected and encouraged to rebel. There are others within religious establishments who seek to enslave and subjugate the poor, who take pleasure from another humans suffering, who seek to degrade and belittle the poor, to put them in their place, to exploit and use the children of the poor, for their own selfish desires and ends. These people don't see the poor as being human, as being deserving of god's love and appreciation, but it is the POOR, the hungry, the enslaved and subjugated, who cry out, that God loves the most, not the pompous, proud, selfish or idle rich. Those junta that desecrated the flesh of the poor, were repaid in kind. They will never ever know peace or happiness for their sins against the poor and helpless. Look how unhappy the rich are, look at the Adairs, how they squabble, back stab, and bicker amongst each other, how they rip each other apart, through fear, mistrust, and jealousy. Look at Gordon kerr, banished to china, for his destructive, dangerous and pathological selfishness, a man so utterly bitchy, selfish and cold hearted, he was a danger to his allies, nevermind his enemies. The rich have no friends, even amongst their own clique, they're always watching their backs, competing with each other, each a bitter rival to each other, as they claw, scratch and fight against each other, in a never ending spiral of competitiveness.

by James McKenna Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:20

It's a fine line we walk. On the one hand we can openly call the Nazis whatever we like . Why? because they murdered over 6 million Jews, Communinsts, Catholics, Homosexuals, Gypsies and intellectuals. So fair dinkum!

But another organisation who murdered over 14 million in the inquisition, who have oppressed and controlled the minds and souls of countless billions and still do today must not be malinged because a certain amount of the population are still beneath their spell.

I will try not to insult their slaves but I will certainly not stop shouting "the Emperor has no clothes"!

by Daithi Tue Mar 11, 2003 02:39

I accept totally that you are not deliberately setting out to offend anyone - and that what you write is coming from a 100% genuine point of view - my intention is just to point out that in order for Indymedia to remain a resource for users of different backgrounds and orientations, it's best to try and avoid generalisations and hurtful rhetoric. I was referring more to the earlier posts (the Jesuit stuff) rather than the more recent postings. I certainly don't intend silencing you, or inventing any clever name to bash you with.

The replace-a-word image came originally from a response by 'fuinseog' to an article of yours; in reponse to that I wrote a message on the editorial list saying that I was personally offended by what you had written so I didn't want to make a decision regarding editorial policy (clear minds and all that). Two responses came back - one said delete, one said leave. We left it. On another occasion I entered an explanation as a comment on why an article of yours shouldn't be deleted (think it was about U.S. bases in Afghanistan); and deleted a one-line comment that was abusive on one of the pro-Israel posts. So rest assured that you are free to be as damning as you like about the Catholic church (or anyone else) here - but preferably without being gratuitously nasty (and even then you'll probably just get me - or any number of site users - moaning at you rather than have the article deleted)

by Ciaron O'Reilly Mon Mar 10, 2003 22:18

Paddy X,

There's a lot of reasons why people are in for resisting this war. This is what happens when you move from protest to resistance...you break the gentleman's agreement of "you can have your protest, as long as we can have our war"

The disarmament action by the Pit Stop Ploughshares has been directly named as the cause of the military being deployed at Shannon and three U.S. airlines transporting troops to the Gulf have withdrawn from Ireland . Indeed it could be argued that before this disarmament action Ireland was profiting fom this war, one can not argue that any longer.

So when warmaking is legalised, serious peacemaking is criminalised and we find ourselves in jail. Where we live with folks who are often the victims of caspitalism etc. not bad company - you can learn a lot.

All the prison time we do on remand is taken off our sentences (presently predicted by counsel at 3 years + if we are found guilty), so may as well do it now than later.

Resisters in jail speak to our consciences, which is how the Spirit speaks to us. My life and resistance has been inspired others who have gone before me and friends who were in jail for nonviolent resistancewhen I joined them on Feb. 3rd..

A lot of the time you are a lot more free on the inside than outside policing yourself, especially when the bail conditions on us include signing on daily at a specific Garda, no station, no c.d., banned from County/ClareShannon, banned from 1/2 mile from U.S. Embassy. If we reoffend when the bombs start dropping - we are back in for the duration, 3,000 Eurodown...so it might make sense to stay put, and hope others will join us inserious nonviolent resistance (there are presently over 1oo nonviolent resisters in jail in the U.S. We received mail from a bunch of them while in Limerick Prison) DON'T JUST DO SOMETHING - STAND THERE!

If 1% of thiose who marched in Dublin were willing to nonviolently resist this war and Irish complicity in it, refuse bail, go to jail and the other 99% supported them, the Irish state would have a serious problem with 1,000 resisters in custody.

We know the costs of serious peace makiing and few are willing to pay it. It is as serious as the risks undertaken by soldiers - 250,000 who have gathered on the Iraqi border. That is why the warmaking continues.....we are not willing to pay the price for peace (in terms of disruption, discomfort, separatrion from loved ones, loss of good name, physical/financial security) that warriors are willing to pay for war

That's why the warmaking continues....which isn't such a drag if you reside in the 1st. WEorld where all they ask of you post-Vietnam is your silence and sedation ( and cynicism if you can muster it).

by James McKenna Mon Mar 10, 2003 21:15

I have just read the last two mailings I made mentioning the word "Catholic" to see if I was being unfair. I find I used the word twice in two mailings with "Catholic" contributors and tried "replacing the word "catholic" with "black" or "Chinese" so that I "might know all about incitement to hatred".

My comment "the Right Wing Conservative Catholic values of the emotionally and mentally disturbed Ms Day" would be...."the Right Wing Conservative Chinese values of the emotionally and mentally disturbed Ms Day". Not much sense or racism there! Ms Day was conservative and Catholic and I would genuinely think she was in fact right-wing in her extremism. These are my views based on reading her writings and not based on an emotional reaction against the torment caused to my Nation by Catholic Church and not by the "blacks" or "Chinese".

The other time I use the word in reference to "The Catholic Workers", not "the Black or Chinese Workers" was to mention "Hey , if your flying the "Catholic" flag then perhaps they should pay for your/their publicity stunt". I can't substitue "Black" or "Chinese" for "Catholic" there if I want to make sense but I assure you had it been the "Chinese workers group" exploiting publicity for China I would have told them to check Beijing to bail them out when we find it hard enoug to pay for our buses to get to the demos the "Chiense" Workers disrupt.

The postings where I gave out about the two priests who made pro war arguments are no longer here for me to analyse with the "substitue-a-word" yardstick. I didn't pick on them because they were priests . I picked on them because they were openly advocating illegal murder and war when they knew better as philosophers and theologians. I did bring into it the fact that these are the leading minds in the Catholic Church in Ireland which is a perfectly reasonable comment to make.

Perhaps a word should be coined for the likes of me who dare to speak out against the "Church" and it's shadow. A word we could pack with emotional impact , like "anti-catic" to have in our arsenal so we could instantly silence critics? Where was that trick used before?

by Ciaron O'Reilly Mon Mar 10, 2003 20:54

James man your all over the place...come and introduce yourself next time you see me and will
talk this out..........foreign security agents are active here just like the French were in NZ.....if your not getting paid by them you should be your doing their work for them...whether your motives are financial or therapeutic is anybody's guess.........enjoy the war your an apologiist for it...beating up on the folks who are resisting it
take care dud
Ciaron

by James McKenna - Stalinist KGB Workers Group Mon Mar 10, 2003 18:24

Ciaron,

This is in reply to the "free Karen Fallon " message too.
I suppose I should respond to your paranoia:
"Starting to smell bacon"
"Stalking us"
"Policing our meetings"

- I'm not a snoop! I was at a meeting that was an anti-war meeting and did not expect to be expoed to Anti - Islamic sectarianism when you had your turn to speak. Don't worry I will identify myself to you next time.

Neither am I a "coward" or a "tuff guy in Cyberspace" - are those challenges to a fist fight, you Catholic you?
You could try responding to the arguments I put forward instead of being insulting or disrespectful simple to be so. This is what Daithi has accused me of but I will stand over all I have said.

Then you take off and talk about the Saudi Royal Family and somehow link it to "Wahabibe". Can't miss an oppertunity to get in a good piece of anti Islamic propaganda , eh?

The Saudi Royal Family are a bunch of thugs supported by the US and your own government Ciaron. They have absoloutely nothing to do with Islam or the Wahabi sect of Sunna except perhaps it is the religion into which they were born. Get over it and stop spreading propaganda you porker. The Saudi Royal family are the product of Western Governments not Islam .

Then you mention the Rainbow Warrior bombing in New Zealand- Wow, how did we get there I wondr until I reaqlise ....oh yeah, the French are going against the War......! What a smell of Pork!

As for taking the piss out of people in prison....bollox.... you post here you get a reply here!

And I haven't forgotten that when Joe Higgins, Patricia McKenna, and Michael D O'Higgins were speaking at Shannon on January 18th ,it was you who chose to shout them down from the nearby rooftop. Did you get paid for that? Why start beserker energy like that when what we need is resolute peaceful power?

And it was the day after you and your muppetts tried to mimic a true Warrior by pretending to attack a US Navy plane (although , conviently not actually doing any damage to it?)that the US Embassy got an excuse to be firm in their demand to have the Irish Army at Shannon. This makes me think your inner porker is not working for the Irish Government or police as they did not want to have to put the army at Shannon - but the US/UK/AUS wanted them to . Your from Aus Ciaron, right?

The bible says you will know a tree from it's fruit....not by what it tells you it is.

Psychology tells us people sometimes try to pretend they are what they are not. Like Madonna, in all her lace and crucifixes singing "like a virgin".....Yesh right, Madonna!

Yeah right, Ciaron!

by Paddy X Mon Mar 10, 2003 17:53

Mr.Moran: While I understand the principle of your staying in prison, and I can see that signing out would restrict your activities, yet by remaining inside your activity, and activism, is completely restricted, so get out of there, you are needed more on the outside, there is so much to do, and that needs to be done, that you can't possibly do while the state has taken your freedom. And the same applies to your comrades. You've made your point. But you are much more valuable outside. Its where the state does not want you to be.

by Ciaron O'Reilly - Catholic Worker/Ploughshares Mon Mar 10, 2003 16:54

The Garda are not the only security services operational in Ireland (see Rainbow Warrior/NZ etc etc)....and a far from the most hostile force to our position and resistance to the war and defence of Irish neutrality etc etc. Check the Mark reference etc etc

by Glen Moran Mon Mar 10, 2003 15:04

Having read the bible thoroghly when younger I can tell you categorically that "I'm starting to smell bacon here" was never in the book of mark.

While I can accept that it is possible that a Garda would post here, critical of your point of view, James' opinions are not invalidated by his political alignment nor do accusations of gardai membership aid healthy (or otherwise) debate.

I'm not trying to be an ass here, I'm just saying that the finger pointing that happens frequently on this site is far from productive (never mind the fact that some of the arguments could have been lifted straight from the judean people's front/people's front of judea skit in Life of Brian)

by Daithi - 1 of IMC IE Mon Mar 10, 2003 14:55

James, that's quite enough - on five occasions now you have acted in an abusive manner towards Catholic users of this site based on their faith. Like it was pointed out as a comment on one of your previous diatribes, try replacing the word "catholic" with "black" or "Chinese" on your writings and then you might know all about incitement to hatred.

Cut it out. This site is not designed to be an outlet for your hate. There are plenty of other places where you can do that. Do you understand this? Start treating this newswire with a little bit of respect and ease off on the abuse, if you want to continue participating in the creation of news and comment on Indymedia. Criticise, by all means, but try, if you can, to do it rationally and decently.

by Ciaron O'Reilly - Pit Stop Ploughshares/Dublin Catholic Worker Mon Mar 10, 2003 14:04

Dunno if my healthy suspicion (based on 25 years of activism, consequent surveillance, infiltration and disruption by security forces)made it to the level of "groundless accusation" but it definitely is not in specific reference to the Garda...try Mark 5:2-13.

by Glen Moran Mon Mar 10, 2003 13:34

Patriotism might be the first refuge of scoundrels and cynicism may be the first port of call for cowards, but groundless accusations of membership of the Gardai (to be construed as a negative thing) are unworthy of this site.

by Ciaron O'Reilly - Pit Stop PLoughshares/Dublin Catholic Worker Mon Mar 10, 2003 13:03 www.geocities.com/pwdyson/pitstop.html

Seriously James, I'm starting to smell bacon here. See my response to Karen Fallon to your poor cynicism in the face of human courage, your tirades to psople who are ina jail away fro the internet (write them a letter mate with an address)....seems like your stalkin' us James baby...in cyberspace and meetings.....hasn't been the first time, won't be the last....please introduce yourself next time your policing a meeting...you really need to brush up on technique.

Recommended reading the "House of Saud" about the deal set up by the British and perpetuated by the U.S. .....between the royal family and the Wahabibe only show in town.
Luv ya dude
Ciaron

by James McKenna Mon Mar 10, 2003 12:53

Damien ,

Your quote from Dorothy Day is very significant of her .

"If they come for the innocent without stepping over your body, cursed be your religion and your life" - Dorothy Day

A fanatic telling others to die or be cursed. No thanks Dorothy! Was it Dorothy you were quoting when you said:

"All life is sacred - even that of our enemies!"

Sounds like it could be one of her "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" , statements.

You also go into an analysis of various branches of Islam engaged in the Iraqi conflict that I must admit I do not understand . I have obviously missed some of the "education" you have received in this respect .

"...Shiite insurrections in the south to prevent another Sunni Muslim regime (though it will have a pro-U.S./U.K. mask, similar to the Iranian Shah pre-1979, overthrown by a Shiite Ayatolla Khomeini".

The learning from the above is that Sunni Muslims are a "regime" to be feared, right ? You do realise the majority of Muslims are Sunni, so your racist comments aimed at the majority of Muslims are in fact fitting in nicely with the Right Wing Conservative Catholic values of the emotionally and mentally disturbed Ms Day.

I attended a meeting where Kieron "look at me I'm so wild with my dreads I'm definitely not a conservtive and here are the pictures of the plane I hit with a hammer ten years ago to prove it" O'Reilly. Before long he descended into a tirade against Wahabi Muslims which was pure sectarianism. In fact I believe legally (and I understand some Muslims who were present are investigating the possibility) it was incitement to hatred and also contraveing anti-racist and incitement to hatred laws. But I wouldn't want to say anything that might endanger an upcoming civil case for any of you.