Irish Army complicit in torture - Bagram, Afghanistan

by Cormac Tue Mar 04, 2003 15:30

You people really are too stupid for words, though reading your posts does satisfy a deep seated and morbid sence of curiosity.

What must it be like not to be able to think clearly?

by frankj Tue Mar 04, 2003 15:42

What proof have you that the Irish troops (all 7 of them) have any contact with those involved in the interrogation of prisoners? Back up your accusations with facts!

by Sean Walsh - Abbeyshrule Direct Action Tue Mar 04, 2003 15:58 abbeyshruledirectaction at yahoo dot co dot uk

The Irish Army are also complicit in the rape of Irish Neutrality, with the support they give to US warplanes flying through our sovereign airspace! For example, they are assisting and guarding US aircraft at Abbeyshrule Airfield in Co. Longford!

Did Pearse die for this?

by T. Tue Mar 04, 2003 15:58

Have you any proof at all? or are you just writing the first thing that comes into your head?

Indymedia editors, please delete this asshole.

by Mark Tue Mar 04, 2003 16:03

I'd like to point out that Sheik Mohammed, or whatever his name is is being held in Pakistan, not in Afghanistan...

That's the thing about an "independent media centre" anyone can post what they like...

by gadzooks Tue Mar 04, 2003 16:43

This is the most ridiculous posting yet on this web site....and thats saying something!

Irish Soldiers have given their lives on peacekeeping duties from the Congo to East Timor. Dont try to tarnish their reputation with some idiotic, un-informed, ignorant crap.

by James McKenna Tue Mar 04, 2003 16:43

Khalid Sheik Mohammed was transferred to the US base at Bagram this morning. Check it out.

As for giving details of the exact operations engaged in by the Irish troops in the US base, I can't say. They are complicit in torture taking place there by their presence and participation in the overall US effort.

The Irish Department of Defence will not even release the government authorisation for this force under the freedom of information act, so what chance of telling us what the individual members are up to? It appears there is no permission at all for their presence in Afghanistan or that it was a verbal agreement at the behest of the US Embassy.

by John Tue Mar 04, 2003 17:10

Well that just takes the biscuit. We have no troops out in Afganistan, with the ISAF. That is a fact. Even as the department of defence.
You bloody sicko.

by NV Tue Mar 04, 2003 17:16

This is a distraction from the real issue of U.S. treatment of prisoners. Sure, you can act in a narrow-minded way and focus on the tenuous links from the Irish peacekeepers (and the Indymedia audience is usually pretty receptive to conspiracies which shows how dumb this article is). But doing so is ignoring the marco issue of U.S. behaviour - missing the wood for the trees, perhaps. It's parochial and backward to look for pathetically irrelevant Irish links when international law and basic standards of decency are being flouted by the world's leading 'rogue state'.

by frankj Tue Mar 04, 2003 17:21

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is believed to have been taken to Bagram, not proven. Wherever he is, it is unlikely that he will remain there for questioning, so the idea that Irish personnel in Afghanistan would be involved with him is remote.

The ISAF, and therefore the Irish contingent, is based in Kabul, not Bagram. Bagram is occupied entirely by U.S. forces, not the ISAF. More than likely the Irish contingent is involved in headquarter duties, so will not be going near Bagram.

Incidentally, the ISAF is a UN sanctioned mission, so there is no question of Irish troops being there illegally. Also it is currently under joint German-Dutch command, not U.S.

by Daithi - 1 of IMC IE Tue Mar 04, 2003 17:33

Indymedia has a policy of hiding obviously false articles - however sometimes the peer review (comment) process works better, in particular when there's not a "blatantly obvious" factual error (i.e. the "Auschwitz never happened / the CIA blew up the World Trade Centre because the Jesuits and Jews told them to / (named person) is charged with some offence / Indymedia is shutting down at midnight" class of stories).

In this case I don't think deletion is called for - we try to edit with a light rather than a heavy hand, and there is an attempt to keep the wire as free as possible - however the author should know that his dodgy claims and shouts of "fascist" and "evil" have not gone unnoticed, and the idea of an open newswire depends to some extent on contributors taking resonsibility for their articles and not abusing the freedom available. The Web is a big place and nothing is stop your ultimate free speech being published there. But on balance I don't think this article should be interfered with.

by YOU WORSE NIGHTMARE Tue Mar 04, 2003 17:53

IS THAT PRICK FROM THE ABBYSHRULE AIR FIELD SITEBEHIND THIS
SINCE WHEN ARE THE DEFENCE FORCES BEEN IN AFGHANISTAN
DID COLLINS DIE FOR HIPPIES TO TAKE OVER THE STATE

by Ray Tue Mar 04, 2003 18:15

An illiterate idiot with a broken Caps Lock key!
Aaaaaargh!

by James McKenna Tue Mar 04, 2003 18:35

This is an answer to a Dail Eireann question put by Dan Boyle of the Green Party.

Defence Forces Deployment.

166. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Defence the complete command structure the
seven members of the Irish Defence Forces currently serving in Afghanistan
report to after they report to the Turkish Major General commanding ISAF.
[24398/02]

Minister for Defence (Mr. M. Smith): On 2 July 2002, the Government authorised
the despatch of seven members of the Permanent Defence Force for service, for a
period of one year, with the International Security Assistance Force, ISAF, in
Afghanistan, which was established under UN Security Resolution 1386, 2001, to
assist in the maintenance of security in Kabul and the surrounding areas.

The seven Irish personnel, who are deployed in ISAF HQ in Kabul, report to the
Commander of ISAF, COMISAF. The position of COMISAF is currently held by a
Turkish Major General as Turkey holds lead nation status in ISAF since June
2002. The command arrangements in place in such circumstances provide that the
COMISAF reports to the UN Security Council through the lead nations' military
authorities.

The ISAF will be used as a static security force to protect the Kabul puppet Government and the oil and gas pipelines.

I am flatterd so many pro US voices have ridiculed this article and called it ridiculous. You know they have run out of arguments when they take the ridicule course of action. It is far from ridiculous or incorrect in any detail or fact except perhaps that we allow our army to use our resources to support US torture.

by James McKenna Tue Mar 04, 2003 19:02

Bagram is on the northern outskirts of Kabul amid a cluster of villages. Bagram with its Irish forces is not remote from Kabul. It is the US base where the ISAF seek protection from continual rocket attacks from Hekmatyr Gulbuddins rebels.

This is an extract from the annex to UNSC 1386 which set up ISAF under US CENTCOM control.

"Regarding the relationship between the International Security Assistance Force and other forces operating in Afghanistan under Operation Enduring Freedom, the letter states that, for reasons of effectiveness, the United States Central Command will have authority over the former so that activities between the two factions do not conflict with each other, and to ensure that there is no interference to the successful completion of Operation Enduring Freedom."

Below is a reference to the terms of agreement signed between the Puppet US Government in Kabul and the ISAF. It shows the colonial nature of the force and is well worth reading.

http://www.operations.mod.uk/isafmta.pdf

by Des Tue Mar 04, 2003 19:35

James is correct on at least two points, the Sheikh has been flown to the U.S. base at Bagram.
Bagram is on the outskirts of Kabul. I have no way of knowing whether the balance of the post is accurate or not.

by Phuq Hedd Tue Mar 04, 2003 20:25

and it is interesting to see the opprobrium heaped upon him and the way that the is able to respond to this with trackable and verifiable information.

Interestingly, noone seems to want to take on a central assertion: that the Irish Army is supporting the USAF's occupation of Afghanistan and everything they do there including the support and installation of the Northern Alliance semi-fascist extremists that the liberal press was so heartbroken about until they became "our" government.

It is reported by UN agencies and RAWA that the conditions for women have barely improved (recent incidents include the burning of women's schools and the organised rape of teachers), if at all. Where are those voices that that were so outraged by the abuse of women in Afghanistan that they wanted us to bomb them into freedom?

Is this going to be the same fate for the poor Iraqis that lack democracy?: we'll bomb them and then install a puppet regime that consists of the same people that help to run Saddam Hussein's dictatorship.

by Avi Harari Wed Mar 05, 2003 06:35

Apparently, the Irish Army is spearheading the advance of US Imperialist Aggressor Crusader forces into Iraq...

by James McKenna Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:56

Fact:
Pakistan Information Minister Rashid Ahmed said Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was handed over Tuesday to U.S. authorities, who took him to their interrogation center at Bagram .

http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/69950.htm

March 4, 2003 -- WASHINGTON - A CIA team will use "all appropriate measures" to convince the just-captured mastermind of the 9/11 attacks to talk - including dangling freedom for his two young sons, who are in U.S. custody.

Sources said the English-speaking Mohammed has refused to cooperate with interrogators - and instead has spent hours in a trance-like state, chanting passages from the Koran. "These guys are unbelievably cocky. They believe God is on their side. So they believe even though they've been captured, ultimately, they're going to prevail," he said.

Meanwhile while inside Bagram the CIA torture "suspects" who just happen to be devout Muslims our brave Secret Seven Irish Army lads are outside getting some practice in protestor control for when they come back to Shannon Airport!!!

(BBC) - The Afghan Government has appointed a commission to investigate a mass protest in one of the most sensitive parts of the capital, Kabul.

Soldiers from the International Security Force (ISAF) have been patrolling the area since the incident last weekend.

Thousands of people gathered outside a police station in the Dasht-e Barchi district on Saturday after claims that a policeman tried to kidnap a woman there.

Under present Interim Administration and US CENTCOM laws this protest against the systematic kidnap and rape of women and boys is classified as a "large scale disturbance " and is dealt with by the military. To this end Irish soldiers and their ISAF comrades levelled guns on mostly young people and students protesting against the attempted rape and kidnap of a particular woman when they knew the culprit policemen were still inside the police station. A van leaving the area (carrying the rapist policemen )was pelted with stones.

The Dasht-e Barchi district where this too place is extremely poor and it is a regular occurance for Northern Alliance and other US backed gangs to systmatically rape and kidnap in this area. That the police are joining in is a sign of the sort of Democracy the US is fostering in Afghanistan.

It is a disgrace to many generations of Irish soldiers who served their country well to have our Army involved in this sort of Feudal Imperialism just because Minister Smith wants to cow tow to the US. Of course all of the above forces and gangs have complete immunity from prosecution for anything they may do.

by NV Wed Mar 05, 2003 14:10

what a load of crap. when someone says show your sources it doesn't mean get an article off the web and come to a completely stupid conclusion. like the thing you've just written - you quote about dealing with protesters and that proves that Irish soldiers are involved?

you have the comphrehension skills of a baby monkey and the intuition of a plank of wood. now fuck off!

by pat c Wed Mar 05, 2003 14:28

What is the purpose of an army? Peacekeeping?

Please have some savvy. If it comes down to it the Irish army would be used against the public if the state thought it necessary. Some might disobey orders but the vast majority will as always follow them.

The army is already used to break strikes, guard security vans, courthouses, prisons AND NOW Shannon.

I wont comment on the specifics of this thread but soldiers are soldiers and their function is to DEFEND THE STATE.

by Mick Wed Mar 05, 2003 20:58

Yes the USAF has a secret base in Co. Longford. It's code named Area 52. The other 51 are in New Mexico. Hardly anybody can see the 200 bombers stationed there because of the force field thrown up about the area that prevents outsiders seeing into the base.

As for the rape and torture story, talk about a Life Less Ordinary. The only drawback is going all the way to Afghanistan to get some. What a shower of muppets contribute to this bullshit site. Get a grip and keep taking the tablets.

by The INYOURFACE Man, or T.I.M. for short. - a zionistic world power Wed Mar 05, 2003 21:31

You stupid crusties! where do you get this shite from? i mean serousily why dont you get a full time job,bath regularly,and become usefull to scoicity! instead of spouting this bilge... is it some sort of childhood malnourishment of attention or love that makes you the way you are, or did you one day decide to become the wankstains on the pants of humanity?
for some of you lot who live in la la land this might be all well and good but for those who know that the tellytubbies arent real (even tho la la is gay) this is the most useless peice of tripe to come across.....

Get a life and grow the fuck up!

regards
popular opinion of your cause!

by FCA Recruit Mon Mar 10, 2003 13:30

Okay lets put this simply, those irish soldiers would do nothing that i or they would consider a war crime (torture) they are there because the irish government as well as those soldiers are doing something to help the international community. Its crazy to make a connection between a couple of 'paddys' in a foreign country and an interrogation of an individual by the US. Oh and as for the guy so wound up by irish neutrality well its common practic for military craft to come through shanon its been going on for years and in no way does it mean our neutrality is been violated since if they weren't allowed to land then they would simply go to the uk and pass through our air space which would be required under international law as long as certain criteria is completed.

by HAWKEYE Tue Mar 11, 2003 20:49

Mick "AREA 51 " is in NEVADA NOT New Mexico

by Biggles Tue May 11, 2004 18:37

Paranoia rules ok...lets keep taking the medication.

EI-AB has a soft tarmac runway 800m long by 18m wide suitable for GA and ultralights. You would get a big transport down but probably not off with a load and not off the narrow taxiways, certain a C130 or larger with bogie wheels would leave tracks...

However the US military use the new hanger built in the corner. It has an aircraft carrier style lift in the floor and is used for flying saucer trials on dark nights...These are best seen from the bar of the local pub after a few stiff ones on an empty stomach...

Biggles.

by techincal pointers Tue May 11, 2004 18:46

is on an island off the coast of Cuba.
Area 51
is in Nevada.

camp X is also in Iraq and loads of places.
Which is why the US official who is making it all ok, was previously in charge of Guant. which is thirty minutes from Cuba and one hour from Haiti.

Area 51 is different. If you have loads of cash and certain geological and logistical conditions and you too can make an area 51.
But to run it well, you will have to "braindrain" lots of brillaint academics. This might effect the capablities of places like the university of Limerick to offer the full sylabus by moving loads of really interesting thesis subjects off line just like politics.ie does with the dirty linen.
You could make a camp X as well if you wanted to, or most of the makers say, "it was the only option/solution left", we didn't really want to make a camp X, it just happened becuase there was a regrettable breakdown in communication and morality. But the R&D data is useful.

by Reader Sat May 29, 2004 23:37 reader1 at eircom dot net

James McKenna is entitled to his opinion. Its a free press (Afghans & Iraqis don't have it) However I would ask James for his reaction to the deaths on 9/11 and the ongoing murder of civilians in Madrid. What about their rights? Do fanatics have the right to kill with impunity and should we simply wring hands and weep or do something about it?

Maybe if Hitler had been stopped at Munich then WW2 wouln't have happened. James has the luxury of living in a free state with strong protection for its citizens and has the liberty to broadcast his ideas, even if they are midway between 1/4 & 1/2 baked. He should be aware of the sacrifice made for that right of free speech and not abuse it.