No Real Alternative

by King Mob Sat Mar 01, 2003 21:29

A bunch of yellow cowardly no-gooders and do-gooders.

by lice and dangerous - none (nor ever will be) Sun Mar 02, 2003 00:42

"oh hes so cute, and really cares".

have to say im not a student out there, but despite all the bitching about Paul Murphy that has taken place, i really do actually believe he was the man for the job. I know him a bit and despite all the crap that has been written on the wire about him being a middle class "tosser"(etc etc etc, ad nauseum), i do think that he would at least try to instigate a serious MILITANT (this being the key word) campaign against fees/capitation fees. as someone who had to leave the country to get my degree (allegedly i wasn't intelligent enough to to get a uni place in ireland) and pay fees, I hope paul dillon will live up to the hype - but i have a nagging suspicsion (labour party sell outs)that hes all talk and no balls. also congrats to oisin and aidan.

by Independant thought Sun Mar 02, 2003 03:51

It baffles me to imagine a handful of people (perhaps only comfortable in a collective) putting down someone like Paul Dillion for having the conviction to run for a position within the SU.

I believe we live in a democratic society,and as such the thousands who voted in the UCD election went with the people they wanted. If you view yourself to be a socialist or and anarchist,then why do you believe your opinion has more value?

Do not judge an individual for coming from a background of privilage.In this day and age,jealously is still the green eyed monster. A person can have wealth of mind,body and spirit as well as monetary wealth,or are you too narrow minded to believe that?

I would encourage you to be active in college and communicate with your Students Union,that way you may not feel insignificant in the wheel.

by Dave Gray - The left Sun Mar 02, 2003 20:24

I dont feel insignificant or in the wheel. i used to like Dillon and regarded him as a sound person, i even voted for him.
i just feel that so much hope has been put in one person. the whole of the left in Ireland's largest college backs him and he turns out to have his own personal interests at heart and no loyalty to the people who brought him into the left.
i hope he does what he says he will, especially now we know that fees are definitely coming in.
personally, he cannot be trusted.

by Independant thought Sun Mar 02, 2003 21:09

He hasnt taken up office yet and you think he is out for himself. Well wake up, newsflash, in this world most people do things to help themselves as much as everyone else. If Dillon is doing it for himself,he will work hard,no body ever wants to be deemed a failure.

Give him a chance,and if every left thinking person in UCD doesnt like it,approach him and tell him.He is only human.

by Cian Sun Mar 02, 2003 22:20

I'm not sure whose written the above article, but it is clear that it is inteded to stir up quite a bit of shit. It has a number of inaccuracies and statements which misrepresent the picture in UCD.

A few things should be made clear.

Firstly there are no leaders of CFE. With that said several activists have played very active roles within CFE including Paul Murphy, Paul Dillon, James Redmond, Aidan Regan and several others.

Secondly to suggest that any of the more active members in CFE have done more than each other is also misleading. One of ther reasons that CFE has done well this year, is because of a diversity of opinion and activsm within UCD and because of the work of many rather than a few.

Thirdly most of the members in CFE have been quite consistent in the positions that they have taken during the year. All, including those from the Socialist Party have however kept quite an open mind and have genuinely tried to learn and listen as the campaign has developed.

Fourthly the great sucess of CFE has not been the participation of the usual suspect lefties, but the contribution of scores of students who have become active in CFE who have no political affiliation.

And finally, to suggest that Paul Dillon won the vote in UCD rather than Paul Murphy due to alleged good looks, is an insult to the thousands of students in UCD who voted for Paul Dillon. Dillon landslided the UCD election winning about 44% of the 1st preference vote in a race of 4 candidates and the option of RON (Re-Open Nominations). Also I think it is fair to say that throuhgout the campaign, Paul Dillon repeatedly emphasised that the campaign was not about getting him into office, rather it was about reclaiming the students union for students.

It is up to everyone active on the left in UCD over the coming year, not just those elected to positions in the union, to ensure that the old culture of hacks and self appointed "elites" is smashed for good. It is up to us to ensure that the union becomes an open, active and campaigning body and in this sense it shouldn't matter whether it was Paul Dillon or Paul Murphy that was elected President of the union.

by conor mc gowan - ucd socialist alternative Mon Mar 03, 2003 01:16 conor at ziplip dot com

dave has made some good points, and none of them are lost on "the left" in ucd.its a pity about the element of shit stirring, and lemon bitterness twoards paul dillon (i detect), and silly insults at people like james redmond.

from setting up the cfe a few months ago, "the left" in ucd has come a long way. as cian said, it is up to us - the non elected group "the left" in ucd to make sure we KEEP making progress.im sure dilloe, regan , kelly have their weeknesses - we all do, its up to us all as a group to help each other, and not get sidetracked by bickering and personality clashes (i see "dave" has had a few)

fees ARE coming back (see press today).
the government is the enemy - not some bloke or blokess you fell out with in the smoking sn due to some personal argument.

trots,social democrats,anarchists, we have a very definite enemy - enemy to us all as people, so lets keep doing something about it.

i hope dave helps us out.

as a member of sa i am proud of the ACTIVE role ALL members have played in a diverse collection of groups- (without seeing them as a large recruitment circus)since we left the SWP.cfe,carrigminders,anti deportation campaign, AND more - it has "in my view" shown that there is an alternative.

by Dave Gray Mon Mar 03, 2003 21:15 gosuckacock at yahoo dot com

it is good we are discussing this and i am glad to see some sort of agreement.

i find cians points would be great in an ideal world but we do not live in one.
CFE is not a grass roots organisation. it was started by Redmond, Dillon and Finbar Diar. they still remain its directors.

Hitler got 13 million votes and Jorg Haider got voted 2nd sexiest politician in Europe. both men are nazis.
dillon came out of no where and with a huge campaign team and press favortism won the day.
UCDs electorate are amajority of women. ask them why they voted for dillon and not for campbell.
it's a decision between Michael Martin and Michael Noonan. No contest.

i said in my article that the left follows dillon with puppy dog loyalty. i criticised him and cian and conor rushed to his rescue. point proven.

i reiterate my point that murphy should have been ran as preident.
McCarthy should have been backed as irish Language.
both candidates were the best for the job and had the name recognition.
both are chairs of their parties and doubled their membership for the left.
they were singled out because they didn't agree wholesale with the dillonites and traded in before their warranty expired.

by Jack C - Big Brother Mon Mar 03, 2003 22:08

Murphy PR was just too bad and he wasn't "petty" to win the election. FACT

The Left is now in power and now the KBC is in opposition. You guys think you've won; your battle has only just begun. They've given you what you always wanted and in trun enough rope to hang yourselves. Already you've started the old UCD blame game and petty bitchyness. FACT

United you stand divided you fall. I think I read that on one of your posters.

If Murphy sought a seat in the union, he should have done it the old fashioned (KBC) way, via the Deputy President's Office. At least he'd have had half a chance.

by aidan Tue Mar 04, 2003 00:52

i am not to sure who he is but it is easy to tell from what he wrote that he is an ill informed bitter trot....Firstly i will not get into the personal remarks he made about Paul Dillon because they are simply childish and quite abstract from the truth. Paul Dillon was elected by the students on a radical platform to transform the Union. If Dave had taken time to read the manifesto because he obviouslydid not and listen to his lecture addresses he wud have seen Paul made it quite clear that he was bringing a Socialist agenda to the Union.... arguing at one stage in a lecture hall full of Science Right wing fools the benefits of A socialist society... getting heckled but clearly stating and winning the point that his alternative to generations of FF domuination of the Union won...... im sorry Dave if your opinion of a " REAL " Socialist is someone( namely Murphy) shouting dogmatically and agressivly at students, while trying to control the reigns of Cfe for the expansion of a political party( SY ... The CFE has no leaders probably to your disappointment. Yet it baffles me why you maintain throwing false accusations about CFE activists... CFE has no affiliation and is sucessful for this very reason... I will not speculate about the debactle that wud have occured had Trots got a hold of it...The students voted... Dillon me and Oisin got elected...its fantastic, get over yourself....I cud nearly reoply now to the remarks that you and the rest of that bitter motley crew will post up, A REAL SOCIALIST IS......blah...blah .....blah...... HISTORY HAS SHOWN.... blah....blah ........blah, CFE is MURP................blah............blah............blah..........We are all fed up with the rhetoric so why not relieve yourself from that theoretical cloud and step into reality.........People

by Finghin Tue Mar 04, 2003 18:37

I'm not going to comment on that stupid posting that was obviously put there just to stir shit.

Aidan, you seem to think that it was posted by a member of the SP. As much as you would like to believe it, it is not the case. From what I heard, I think Dillo should look a bit closer to home if he wants to find the real culprit. So please don't throw wild accusations and spread lies about the SP and our role in CFE it's of no benefit to anyone and only goes to harm the CFE and the SU.

by James R - UCd student Tue Mar 04, 2003 19:00

You seem to be a bitter and twisted man... I really regret voting for you now.

At least Paul Murphy had the balls to stand up for what he believes and is not ashamed to hide his politics. I don't agree with him on everything, but I respect him for that. By the way I didn't see it on Paul Dillons manifesto that he was a member of the Labour Party.

by Oisin Kelly - Socialist Party Tue Mar 04, 2003 20:02

"David Grey" (if that is his name) is NOT a member of the Socialist Party. And it could not have been a member of the SP that put it up as at 8:46pm on Saturday most of the UCD members were on a bus back from Shannon, probably in the middle of Offally by that time!

Aidan, I'm surprised at your attacks on "trots" and I'm surprised at your attacks on the Socialist Party. At no point did the SP in UCD see CFE as a place just to recruit members, give me proof. CFE is a broad campaign that has people in various parties and in none (mainly those in none). I would say that there are leaders of the CFE, ie those that do much of the day-to-day work such as James, Aidan, Paul Murphy, Paul Dillon, etc etc.

Before anyone goes and launches into unbased attacks on another they should consider 1. Have they got their facts straight, and 2. Will an attack harm the CFE.

by Oisin Kelly - Socialist Party Tue Mar 04, 2003 20:25

I just read the article by "David Grey" again. There are a number of blatent inaccuracies and bad analysis.

Firstly, to put someone's election down to good looks is a joke. In my opinion Paul Dillon was elected because of the political situation in UCD, not because of how he looks.

To say that Paul Murphy "orchastrated" the CFE protests isn't totally correct. Paul certainly did play (and does play) a very serious and vital role in the CFE, but to say that he was the ONLY person that got stuck in on the protests is wrong.

Also the personalised attack on James Redmond is pathetic. James is not someone that just opposes things for the sake of it. I can say that of all those active in CFE James is among the most genuine and principled.

I really think that "David Grey" should grow up, it's postings like that that ruin indymedia, and I also hate those kinda postings because the SP in UCD usually get wrongly accused for it.

by Dave Gray Tue Mar 04, 2003 23:00

Why has everyone got my name in inverted commas "Dave Gray".
And its Gray with an "a" not an "e" (as in the colour).
The points were raised. The points were delt with. At least we have discussed it.
I think we should leave it there. The KBC monitor this site at will be staging a come back next year.
We should not in-fight. Dillon should have been loyal. I hope he will be in future.
The KBC will try an exploit this. Lets leave it here.

by TROTWATCH Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:26

See, peer pressure works.

by james redmond - socialist alternative Wed Mar 05, 2003 16:01 antrophe at hotmail dot com

There's fuck all point replying to this bitter little rant, if the writer of it has a problem with what is happening in CFE then get the fuck up off your ass and get involved.

'The Dillon crowd has stabbed McCarthy in the Back and the CFE group is backing a first year with no Irish and who didn’t even know where to get the nomination forms for the position. McCarthy, who received no help from the CFE last year despite starting Student Alliance, would have been the natural candidate this year. '

CFE didnt exist last year, you moran. Is student politics to be goverened through the rules of seniority? ross Higgins also reckoned that those from teh left who ran shouldnt have because they didnt have the experience of running a society as an auditor...at least we can see that the fuck wit who wrote the above article has more in common with some muppet from Young Fine Gael than anybody involved with CFE. Is it really Daves fault taht he doesn't know where to get nomination forms? Strikes me as a fuck up on behalf of a closed union dominated by hacks like yourself who see politics as soemthing that happens in backrooms, with positions divyed up among croonies. for once we had an open vote on who would go ahve CFE backing....and you disagree?

Did student alliance ever hold an open meeting to engage and involve students outside the activists mileau?

I'd agree with Oisin, the writer of this is closer to Dillon than he would think. While others were in Shannon and elsewhere, the above writer was sitting on his arse moaning about 'natural contenders'.

'The left in UCD have always had a cover name for themselves since they began co-operating. '

And bitter little shits on indymedia have always had a cover name since it began too. Come to a cfe meeting and make your points there, save the discussion of the sex lives of others for the bar after, you tit.

by Dave Gray Wed Mar 05, 2003 17:40

Oh yes, i love Paul Dillon. I am so close to him. I live under his staircase in his house.

Comments on this site just keep coming. James Redmond is one to talk. All he does is add stuff on this site.

You all love Dillon. Good for you. Aidan shouldn't be having a go at the Trots. Fair play to them and anyone on the left.

Look at the negativity you're throwing at each other.

I could be a KBC member trying to split you up.
Looks like I'd be doing a good job if i was.

by VM Wed Mar 05, 2003 18:30

DG=DMC?
Labour keep your splits to yourselves.

by Dara McCarthy Thu Mar 06, 2003 01:25

I have just read the above article and despite it knowing quite a lot about me somehow it contains within it various inaccuracies.

Student Alliance was not formed by me nor did
I personally or with Paul Murphy, unite the left. They chose to come together to combat the college rip off prices, collectively.

I was not 'stabbed in the back' by Paul Dillon or CFE. I was not active in it all year and there fore could not be selected as its candidate for Irish language.

I am not 'Dave Gray' if that is his real name.

Articles of this nature are written to stir shit. Already there is another one about Paul and the KBC.

I would say they are written by KBC members.
This posting site was brought to my attention by a center-right Student Union Officer who recieved an email about it from Greg O'Neill.

In future, I think people should ignore articles of this type. Let them pass.

by Oisin Kelly - SP/CWI Thu Mar 06, 2003 02:39

It could well be some right-winger that is trying to have a go at the successes of the CFE over the year.

Best thing is to ignore it (although I confess, I did reply to the 'conspiracy theory' type posting put up tonight). And before anyone accuses me of putting it up I was at an IAWM fundraiser tonight (i have witnesses!!)

by Dave Gray Thu Mar 06, 2003 16:38

This thing just keeps on going.
Even McCarthy rushes to Dillons rescue, and u lot think i'm that asshole?
Maybe Murphy will put up a posting if hes not too busy posing for RTE cameras.

And no ones even looked at my conspiracy theory about Dillon and KBC.

by I hate FF/FG Thu Mar 06, 2003 21:20

I reckon it is Aonghus hourihane. Or it could be Ross 'gossip big lips' Higgins. I'm sure he's getting even after the thread that scuppered his amnitions for the Equality office in the USI

by Dave Gray Sat Mar 08, 2003 19:34

Its gray with an 'a' you fuckwit. This story's old now.