GREENS & LABOUR DISTANCE THEMSLEVES FROM MAR 1

by I hate Labour Fri Feb 28, 2003 15:09

These so called anti war parties of the Green and Labour are a disgrace. They are playing into the habds of the capitalist media who are intent on portraying the anti war movement as anarchist american hating violent thugs. Why are these parties not backing the IAWM's position on this protest? These Grassroots people are not representative of the anti war movement and they together with fluffs in the GP and Lp are ruining the anti war movement.

by index Fri Feb 28, 2003 15:46

Surly a peace march should be peaceful. The only way that thousands were out on the streets two weeks ago was because there was a wide range of political beliefs there. Now to call the Greens and Labour sell outs?
Sell Out from what?
They want peace so they want a peaceful march.
To be violent at this march would sell out from PEACE.

In order for this movement to win you need large scale public support, running on to a run way and getting arrested is going to achieve what? You will not delay the flights that for long but what you will do is drive the ordinary punter who went on the huge march in Dublin away from the peace movement. In essence you will do exactly what the war mongers want. You will make the peace movement look like a bunch of head bangers and the war mongers in their nice suits, that much more believable.

I am all on for direct action when it can achieve something if you do this you might win the battle but you will use the war. Violence is not the answer.

by Ray Fri Feb 28, 2003 15:50

All of the calls for direct action tomorrow have stressed that it will be NON-VIOLENT.
No-one is going to attack the police, army, airport staff, or US soldiers.
People are going to try to take down the fence. That's it.
Calling this 'violent', when the people opposing it are armed soldiers and riot police, is ridiculous.
Calling this 'violent', when the aim is to stop a war that will cause thousands of deaths, is crazy.

by pat c Fri Feb 28, 2003 15:55

"Give Peace A Chance
by index Fri, Feb 28 2003, 2:46pm

Surly a peace march should be peaceful. The only way that thousands were out on the streets two weeks ago was because there was a wide range of political beliefs there. Now to call the Greens and Labour sell outs?
Sell Out from what?
They want peace so they want a peaceful march.
To be violent at this march would sell out from PEACE. "

How is damaging a fence violence?

"In order for this movement to win you need large scale public support, running on to a run way and getting arrested is going to achieve what? You will not delay the flights that for long but what you will do is drive the ordinary punter who went on the huge march in Dublin away from the peace movement. In essence you will do exactly what the war mongers want. You will make the peace movement look like a bunch of head bangers and the war mongers in their nice suits, that much more believable."

The 100,000 people came out after Mary & the CWM decommisioned the US Warplanes. You are not making any sense.

"I am all on for direct action when it can achieve something if you do this you might win the battle but you will use the war. Violence is not the answer"

Direct Action has already achieved the diversion of 3 airlines from Shannon. This means that a lot of war materiel that would have passed thropugh Ireland did not!

How is tearing down a fence violent?

If this action succeeds in forcing planes out of Shannon then how are we losing. Would you prefer if the fence stayed up & the warplanes continued to use Shannon?

by Terry Fri Feb 28, 2003 15:55

I would hazard a guess that both Labour and the Greens are not supporting the DA because they
are more concerned about their 'image' and know full well how the propaganda in the media will twist
any such actions around. They are clearly not prepared to stand up to such an attack from the press,
and feel they will thus lose support from the more 'moderate' section of the population. Because
they are the relatively smaller political parties in the Dail, they do not have the confidence and
are ultimately afraid of the real institutes of power working in the shadows from the media,
business lobby groups and institutions and international organisations like the WTO and IMF.

They should be sticking their necks out on the line, because in my opinion I think many people do
support Direct Action and are glad that at least the entire population is not totally passive and that
there are people who are willing to take some risks to stop this terrible war and face down the
outright lies, hypocrisy and propaganda from the war-mongers.

People know deep down that the greatest failing in the 20th century is that people did not take
the risks to face down the likes of the Nazis and others before they had a chance to grow. I think
people instinctively recognise that the USA is in the same position today, with unbridled power
like the Germans had, and a lunatic in power.

The complete cop-out by both Labour and the Greens by distancing themselves from the Direct Action
while for the last few weeks going on about how they were going to close down Shannon, shows that
they are shallow and are more interested in getting their hands on any little bit of power. They
know this. With both perpetual war promised by Bush and rampant globalization which is just a very
thin mask for global robber-baron capitalism raging all around, weak actions like this are not
going to hold back the onslaught and save us and the planet.

Their actions ultimately show how ineffective and unmask the lie of the facade of parlimentary democracy.
Parlimentary democracy is not democracy, but just a cover that hides those with the real power and
influence, but unfortunately these two political parties are still playing the wasteful and deceitful game.

by GreenPartyMike - Green Party USA Fri Feb 28, 2003 16:07

Green Greetings to All,
I had to post a quick note of support for the Direct Action being called for Shannon Warport. In fact here in the US we Anti-War activists are also planning many forms of Direct Action, as we speak. Speaking as a Green Party activist and supporter of Sinn Fein with family conections to SF I am quite frankly ashamed of the current reaction of leadership. Hopefully the rank and file of both organizations are ignoring them. As for the very open style of caling Direct Action, I think this is brilliant for reasons of propaganda and recruitment.
Now as for the "workers of the airport" arguement I must state, as a Trade Union activist that this arguement is crap. If the workers of Shannon were even close to coming out on strike, then it is a legitimate arguement. But they are not so that leaves it to us. As for the old "these Anarchists dont trust the working class" shite, good god man, WE ARE THE FUCKING WORKING CLASS. Or are the workers at Shannon the only working class in Ireland?
I wish you all God Speed and Good Luck. Hopefully the numbers will be huge and even though the corporate media will probably not cover it, I can guarentee the growing alternative media will. In fact I am using this story for my planned artice in a local Free Press along with the story of Bernadette Devlin and the Shannon 6. The heart of my story shall be, why is corporate media not explaining WHY IRISH PEOPLE are burning American flags and committing direct Action against American Aircraft. None of this is covered over here. The media are completely controlled and so the rapidly growing alternative media sources such as Amy Goodmans Democracy Now or the plethora of alternative newspapers.
Be rest assured, resistance here is indeed growing despite what the media does not say.
Again, good luck Saturday and thank you.

by Sean Fri Feb 28, 2003 16:42

"supporter of Sinn Fein with family conections to SF I am quite frankly ashamed of the current reaction of leadership."
What has been said by the leadership.
I know not to take the establishment press at their word at this stage.
Is anyone from SF publicity that can clarify what was said.
As I know a few friends of mine also Shinners will be in Shannon this saturday.

by Terry Fri Feb 28, 2003 16:45

Thanks for the note of support, but I must take issue with your statement:

'The heart of my story shall be, why is corporate media not explaining WHY IRISH PEOPLE are burning
American flags and committing direct Action against American Aircraft'

Eh? I don't think anyone has burned any American Flags here or intend to.

We are AntiWar and some of us anti-capitalist, but we are NOT anti-American but we are Anti-Bush cabal.
Many here recognise that the American population from the instance of birth has been fed a diet of lies and
propaganda and understand to a certain extent why they have some of the views they do have. That is not to
say we are not fed lies too, but it is just so more comprehensive and TV and press is far more shallow than
this side of the Atlantic.

But thanks again for your support and we hope things go well over there. Many here are encouraged by the
growing anti-war movement in the US.

by Ray Fri Feb 28, 2003 16:48

According to RTE, the Ard Comhairle met this morning, and is advising supporters not to go to Shannon because there may be vioence.
No, this is not some parallel-universe Sinn Fein.

by SFer Fri Feb 28, 2003 17:48

Can I just confirm that the Ard Comhairle of the party meets on a Saturday morning not a Friday. As such, the supposed statement by RTE appears untruthful.

by -9- Fri Feb 28, 2003 17:56

The only dangerous direct action is being taken by the american planes dropping bombs directly on innocent iraqi people.

Don't listen to bureucrats, think about those innocent victims, let's get to shannon tomorrow!!!

by firewoman Fri Feb 28, 2003 18:04

Is the Sinn Fein leadership supporting this protest, warning against going or are they sitting on the fence? I know some shinners who are probably going, is this a split, confusion or what? What's the sceal?

by Socialist Party Statement Fri Feb 28, 2003 18:18

Shannon Anti- War Protest:
· Labour, Green Party and Sinn Féin very
wrong to withdraw from Shannon protest;

· Media hype about violence out of all proportion to reality;
Joe Higgins T.D.
Socialist Party

The Labour Party, the Green Party and Sinn Féin have made a bad mistake in withdrawing support for the peaceful anti-war protest planned for Shannon tomorrow.

The Government and the media have seized upon the plans by a small minority grouping who want to pull down the fence, to portray the Irish Anti-War Movement (IAWM) as organising a confrontation that will be violent.

The Socialist Party is part of the IAWM and these allegations are false. We and the IAWM believe that a so-called “direct action” protest is not appropriate at Shannon. The key thing that anti-war activists should be concentrating on is building the biggest possible anti-war movement in the communities, schools and colleges, but in particular in the unions. The most effective “direct action” would be generalised industrial action by the trade unions to end the use by foreign military of Shannon.

The media hype has now been given credence by the Labour Party, the Green Party and Sinn Féin. It is serving to distract from the real issue which is that the Irish Government is supporting a war for oil that will result in the deaths of thousands and thousands of innocent people.

It is extremely disappointing that parties who are anti-war should allow their attendance at the IAWM’s planned peaceful protest to be determined by media hype. The only effect of the actions of Labour, the Greens and Sinn Féin will be to diminish the numbers turning up to the peaceful protest and this will be a boost to this pro-war Government.

It is vital that all those who are seriously interested in building a real anti-war movement stand against attempts to divide us and we hope that, given the disaster that is about to be forced on the Iraqi people, the importance of such principled unity will be obvious to all involved.

Joe Higgins T.D. can be contacted at (01) 618 3038

by pat c Fri Feb 28, 2003 18:24

into issuing this statement.

by pat c Fri Feb 28, 2003 18:28

From GNAW List

*******************************
none of this has stopped people like dominic haugh in shannon speaking on
behalf of the SP to advise people not to attend on saturday. Ye're a
centralised party with an established leadership structure so presumably
someone speaking for the SP is speaking for the SP.

Every single organised party in Ireland is using opposition to DA as a
means to claim ownership of the mythical 100,000. Most of those people
were individuals, they've already spurned political parties and the party
system prefering apathy to hypocrisy. Now our glorious leaders of the
revolution follow the example of our liberal friends in speaking for
everyone who choses not to speak publicly.

No wonder its so important to knock this before it might happen, supposing
10,000 came to shannon to do their own thing (probably not tearing down a
fence, even if bertie insists on sitting on it), it's so much harder to
claim ownership of a political movement where people turn up and take
action, much better to generate lots of hysteria and let them know that
they'll soon have a chance to speak out safely from under your banner.

barry

> I am genuinely baffled by the level of vitriol which has erupted from
> the tactical disagreements between the Irish Anti-War Movement and the
> Grassroots Network.
>
> Certainly as far as the Socialist Party is concerned the differences
> are tactical rather than over issues of principal. It is laughable to
> claim that the Socialist Party is against "direct action". The SP has a
> record of direct action which very few other organisations can
> match.
>
> To give a few examples: The Socialist Party has been a very important
> part of the campaigns of mass non-payment of the water tax and the bin
> tax. The central thrust of those campaigns - non-payment - has been
> one of the most effective forms of mass direct action which has been
> developed. In those same campaigns our members have gone to
> prison for dumping waste outside council buildings and have been
> involved in physically preventing water disconnections in a number of
> different ways.
>
> Our members have been involved in some of the most effective strike
> actions Ireland has seen and again our members have been in front of
> courts innumerable times for illegal picketing and so one.
>
> The members of our sister-organisations overseas have been central to
> direct actions as diverse as physically preventing warrant sales by
> baillifs in Scotland and helping to tear down the fence at the
> Woomera refugee detention centre in Australia.
>
> This kind of list could go on for a very long time.
>
> The Socialist Party applauded the earlier "direct actions" at Shannon
> and in fact some of our members took part in a previous tresspass.
>
> None of this seems to have stopped some people from shouting that we
> "oppose direct action" because we oppose the specific actions
> proposed by the GNAW for this weekend. A case could be made that we
> attracted the lions share of what Michael aptly called "dogs abuse"
> because a couple of our members openly made their points of view
> clear on Indymedia when the standard approach to political discussion
> on that forum is to snipe away from comfortable anonymity.
>
> So let's be clear about this. The disagreement between the Socialist
> Party and the GNAW is not over whether or not "direct action" is an
> acceptable tactic but over whether or not this particular action at
> this particular time is wise. There are others who may well be
> opposed to any direct action of any sort, but that is a seperate
> issue.
>
> Is mise le meas
> Brian Cahill
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>

by pat c Fri Feb 28, 2003 18:32

By reffering to the IAWMs peaceful protest the SP are by implication suggesting that the GNAW DA is not peaceful.

by Phuq Hedd Fri Feb 28, 2003 18:51

If you look at the link above you'll see that "doheochai" was busy jumping all over the place with his "questions have not yet been answered" wherein he starts trying to raise the spectre of Abbeylara in the context of the Shannon fence-pull!!

Poor SP being attacked for spreading hype designed to minimise the numbers at Shannon. Ah sure God love them, give them a break now!

Act like a hysterical, shit-stirring, evasive liar "doheochai" and don't be surprised if you are asked to explain exactly _when_ the fabled "Shannon worker's strike" is going to happen.

Don't start crying and moaning about being attacked when you are asked to explain yourselves.

by Cian - Labour Member Fri Feb 28, 2003 19:02

It should be noted that all the party leaderships which are advising their members not to attend the protest in Shannon are acting in an disgracefully undemocratic manner. They have not consulted their membership.

Furthermore they are all showing quite a high level of totalitarian cheek. It is one thing for them to formally withdraw the support of their organisations for a protest, or to choose not to support it. However it is realy beyond any interpretation of their position within a party to instruct members not to attend. Who do they think they are?

Pat Rabbitte had the cheek after feb 15th to condemn Bertie for misjuding the public mood against the war. Fair comment but its not like Rabbitte has been completely in touch with anti war sentiment in this country himself.

The Labour Party is encouraging members to attend a peace protest in Dublin city centre, which is fair enough. But really what is the point in standing around in Stephens Green again, when death machines are continuing to land in Shannon?

I know myself that several Labour members are attending the grassroots demo in Shannon.

Anyway the action will be succesful depending on how many non-aligned and grassroots activists turn up. It was never going to be aided by party contingents or blocs attending the IAWM protest. And any members of SF/ GP/ Labour who don't show because the leaders say so, probaly weren't going to be the kind of activists who would be pulling down the fence in the first place.

by conor mc gowan - ucdsa Fri Feb 28, 2003 19:17 conor at ziplip dot com

This was their chance to differentiate between themselves and the other establishment parties
They bowed to Tony o’Media, and his goons.

Pat Rabbitte – Tony Blair.
Trevor Sargant - Joschka Fischer.

The transformation waits. Only 3 or so years ago the green party were a leaderless organisation. Today, they are well on the road Germany.

Both these groups have a grassroots. Those in Labour (epically youth) should go ahead to Shannon, and bring the banners. Fuck the leadership. They serve only opinion polls – not me – not you!

by The second most ridiculous man on the Irish left Fri Feb 28, 2003 20:32

Preposterous Pat: the village idiot of the Irish left.

by Des Fri Feb 28, 2003 21:05

The decision of Sinn Fein, The Labour Party and the Greens not to attend the demonstration at Shannon tomorrow is to be regretted. It is a blow to the spirit of unity that is necessary if we are to increase the pressure on the Government. To that extent at least, I would be critical of their decision. Having said that, the proposed “direct action” at the airport is an extremely ill-advised tactic which will not have any positive effect, on the contrary it has the potential to present the ruling elite and the establishment press with a propaganda gift, to alienate workers and residents in Shannon, and in the country in general. My view would be that all parties who support the campaign show participate in the demo but steer clear of supporting or in any way being associated with counterproductive and futile “protests”. The anti war campaign will never get anything like balanced coverage from the print media and RTE/TV3 BUT it is absolutely crazy to in effect, assist them in their attempts to smear us.

by Stephen Fri Feb 28, 2003 21:10

It's typical of these bleeding heart liberals. More worried about their image in the media than stopping a war. It's essentially a popularity contest to them. As for SF pulling out, as far as I know, but someone can correct me on this, this is the same SF that is the political front of the IRA? Setting off bombs and murdering people is far more peaceful than tearing down a fence these days.

by just some dude Fri Feb 28, 2003 21:34

I have to say that I heard a friend of mine was getting quite a bit hassle the day of the big Dublin protest for being American.
And then there were the kids trying to set fire to the American flag outside the Central Bank...

It's a shame, but the muppets do always seem to stand out above the majority in people's perception.

I wouldn't criticise the Green Party too much for distancing themselves from direct action or whatever.
The GP has worked hard to create a certain public image, which is really the party's sole asset. They want to do things one way, other's want to do something else, why critise them for that.

by just some dude Fri Feb 28, 2003 21:37

Sure didn't everybody know Gerry Adams had doves of peace roosting in his beard all these years...?

by Stephen Fri Feb 28, 2003 21:45

Just some dude,

I don't think that anyone is criticising anyone for wanting to do things differently but I don't think anyone believes in the sincerity of their actions. To the political parties, this is a popularity contest as I said above, they're more worried about how they're portrayed in the media than actually doing the right thing.

by Phuq Hedd - Wardour St. Fri Feb 28, 2003 22:34

The Independent has an interestingly confused piece of breaking news. It purports to be reporting the views of something called the Irish Anti-war movement (note, not the Irish Anti War Movement IAWM) and suggests that Joe Higgins (SP) is unhappy with the violence hype and the distancing of SF,Green, Labour from the protests. (I hope that D.O'Heochai is subjected to party discipline for his suggestion that the Garda Emergency Response Teams will use their Abbeylara tactics?).

Note that the Indo does not quote from GNAW's clear statement of non-violence available on the front page of indymedia.ie. Note that the way that Joe Higgins is reported creates the impression that the _IAWM_ is "non violent" but that either Joe didn't say or the Indo didn't report that GNAW's direct action is NON-VIOLENT.

If the Indo reporters are confused that's one thing, but if they're doing this deliberately then they're not even hacks: they're deliberately creating false impressions. Shame.

---------------------------------------------
Anti-War movement slam media for hyping protest
18:28 Friday February 28th 2003

The Irish Anti-War movement is criticising the media for hyping the possibility of violence at tomorrow's anti-war protest in Shannon. A small group of protestors have indicated on the Internet that they intend to try to breach the perimeter fence at the airport during tomorrow's demonstration. Labour, The Green Party and Sinn Fein are encouraging their supporters not to join the march, and the Peace and Neutrality Alliance is also staying away, but Socialist TD, Joe Higgins, says the protest will be peaceful. "I think it is extremely regrettable that the Labour Party, the Green Party and Sinn Fein should really have stayed away as a result of media hype, which was completely blown out of all proportion. They are trying to allege there will be violence. The Irish Anti-War movement, of which the Socialist party is a part, is calling for a very peaceful, very disciplined peaceful demonstration."
---------------------------------------------

by doheochai - Socialist Party Fri Feb 28, 2003 23:46

When did I EVER advise people not to attend the demo on Saturday. GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT!!!!!

By the way a member of the GG told a MAMA meeting in Limerick MAMA should consider supporting the Franco/ German proposals and that he was opposed to the withdrawl of sanctions against Iraq because Saddam could then buy more weapons.

by Intransigent Sat Mar 01, 2003 01:29

You guys never told the cops!
All for Direct Action but let's look at this logically:
Gardai outside the fence!
Army inside the fence!
Couple of idiot autonomous elitist direct actionisters!
Snatch Squads around the outsides to get ring leaders! (generally heads of organisations. yes they know us!)
Couple of batons! (remeber RTS!)
Do you guys really believe that now is the time to throw the guantlet down to the state?
All that is happening is that you are splitting the nti war movement.
Soldiers hate anarchists!
It's a simple fact.
Do you know why?
How many anarchists are you going to find in Finglas or Cabra?
Now how many anarchists are you going to find in Foxrock and Donnybrook?
You may not like what I have to say but it's what the soldiers believe.
They can't wait to kick the shit out of you guys.
Your fucking stupid elitist action is going to get us nowhere!
You either wait till there is a mass movement and then engage in mass direct action...
Or do what your great anarchist heroes of the past did...
Assassinate ministers!
Is that elitist enough?
Well done on giving the state ammo for their arsenal. How easy it was to split the movement.
Maybe I'm happy all the liberal wankers are gone.
But a bunch of kids with facemasks taking on the state just amuses me!
You're fucking everything up!
Remember Kronstadt!

by pat c Sat Mar 01, 2003 16:35

@Pat C again lying through his teeth
by doheochai - Socialist Party Fri, Feb 28 2003, 10:46pm

When did I EVER advise people not to attend the demo on Saturday. GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT!!!!!@

Takle it up with Barry, but I'd take his word over yours anyday.

"By the way a member of the GG told a MAMA meeting in Limerick MAMA should consider supporting the Franco/ German proposals and that he was opposed to the withdrawl of sanctions against Iraq because Saddam could then buy more weapons."

Who did? In any case, GNAW is a one issue campaign, not A CENTRALISED LENIST PARTY LIKE THE SP.

Why wont you condemn the AIrport "Police" who are assaulting & bullying activists & independent journalists?

Are some of them members of the SP? Workers in Uniform how are you!

As for the village Idiot jibe: that says more about the anonymous sp bot who is incapable of reasoned argument.

by Derek Sat Mar 01, 2003 18:55

Pat C, I suggest that in order for you to make the maximum possible contribution to the anti war campaign; you should apply to join Fianna Fail. That way, yourself and the GNAW masterminds could fuck up Bertie and co. instead of the struggle to prevent an obscene resource war. Between the period before Mount St. accept!!!! Your application, you should try very hard to get a grip and avoid becoming detached from reality. No member of the SP has ever suggesting non-attendance at the Shannon demo, you are well aware that charges to the contrary is simply untrue. BTW, if you ever decide to overthrow the government, it might be a good idea if you did not let them know a week in advance.

by King Mob Sat Mar 01, 2003 20:51

And the sad thing is that the gobshites follow them like a flock of sheep. Follow thy leader.

by PAT C Sun Mar 02, 2003 19:00

"

"No member of the SP has ever suggesting non-attendance at the Shannon demo, you are well aware that charges to the contrary is simply untrue. "

Nothing that dheochai would do would surprise me. I take Barrys words over an spers any day.
heochai spread scare stories about the need for medics.

he speaks in riddles when he talks about shannon.
he goes on about how the workers are afraid that the DA will drive the USAF away from shannon. well thats our intention.

Do the SP want to permanently drive the US military out of shannon?

BTW, if you ever decide to overthrow the government, it might be a good idea if you did not let them know a week in advance.

i think a few spers would be more at home in ff given the opportunist way they have carried on over shannon.

by Andrew Mon Mar 03, 2003 14:38

as do some of the other GNAW organisers. As far as I'm aware we don't have anyone in Foxrock which is a pity cause we could hit on them for cash!