Launching the University of Limerick against War

by EARHART Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:48

The University of Limerick is launching its campaign against the war - Ms Harford.

Katherine, is this campaign being organised by UL. Has Dr Downer suddenly taken an interest in international politics? I doubt it somehow.

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Mark seems to have summed up all my opinions so I won't bother wasting my time addressing them. I am fully familiar with the rules and regulations of the ULSU and it's unconstitutional consititution! That is why I spoke up and said that any student is entitled to book a room in the Students' Centre. I would hope that you are familiar with the regulations since you chair C&S council!

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I would like to ask the persons involved with this new group a few questions.

Where were they when the IRA were killing innocent people in this country? I don't recall them protesting then.

When the little children were being abused walking to school in Ardoyne were they protesting?

Are innocent Iraqui lives more important than Irish lives?

Just give that some thought!

by Mark - Concerned Student Mon Mar 03, 2003 21:35

"UL against the war, certainly do not represent the views of all students in UL. It represents the views of a mixture of both staff and students from the university; therefore we call ourselves UL against the war."

I'm glad to see that you have cleared this matter up. In fact the first line of your original post declares the opposite to be the case. In case you need a memory refresher:
"The University of Limerick is launching its campaign against the war ...."

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"Did you hear/see my name as one of the people arrested on Saturday?-no."

No, they haven't been named, that I've seen, so maybe you were.

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"Were those people who were arrested on Saturday causing criminal damage or acting violently?-no."

One group of protesters were there explicitly for this purpose.

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"Is the military use of Shannon airport facilitating the killing of innocent civilians?-yes."

No, no one has been killed by these planes landing at Shannon, unless you count the odd seagull that may fly into their flightpath. Now there's a campaign for you!

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"Is the military use of Shannon involving the workers of Shannon, and the Irish people in this immoral, inhumane, illegal act?-yes"

Is this referring to the slaughter of seagulls? If so, no, it's the seagulls fault for getting in the way, or the pilot's fault for not swerving out of the way. Otherwise, planes landing in Shannon is neither immoral, inhumane, nor illegal. In fact it's of benefit comercially to the people of the Mid-West, and to the Republic of Ireland as a whole.

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"You have misrepresented me and UL against the war. I think that is in some way or another, I’m no legal expert, slanderous."

How? misrepresented??? I think you, and Earhart, have represented your position quite well...

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"I have a long-standing relationship with UL clubs and societies, and am fully aware of their rules, regulations and reputation. As a group we are campaigning with a sense of humanity for others and are voicing our objection in the best ways we know how, to a government and an international community, that of which is our democratic responsibility as well as our right. These attributes are qualities the university should feel proud to accommodate on campus."

I don't recall "UL against the War" being recognised or noted as a Club or a Society of the University of Limerick Students' Union.

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"I do not head UL against war, I was invited to join."

That's nice, you appear to be the official spokesman anyway.

by Katherine Harford - UL against the war Mon Mar 03, 2003 16:04 0001546 at student dot ul dot ie

Earhart,
Obviously you are in some way associated with UL, and for this reason I will grace your amazing insinuations with a response.
1) UL against the war, certainly do not represent the views of all students in UL. It represents the views of a mixture of both staff and students from the university; therefore we call ourselves UL against the war.
2) To suggest that I would lead a group to take part in criminal activities and disgrace the university in so doing is a little worrying to say the least. Did you hear/see my name as one of the people arrested on Saturday?-no. Were those people who were arrested on Saturday causing criminal damage or acting violently?-no. Is the military use of Shannon airport facilitating the killing of innocent civilians?-yes. Is the military use of Shannon involving the workers of Shannon, and the Irish people in this immoral, inhumane, illegal act?-yes
3) You have misrepresented me and UL against the war. I think that is in some way or another, I’m no legal expert, slanderous.
4) I have a long-standing relationship with UL clubs and societies, and am fully aware of their rules, regulations and reputation. As a group we are campaigning with a sense of humanity for others and are voicing our objection in the best ways we know how, to a government and an international community, that of which is our democratic responsibility as well as our right. These attributes are qualities the university should feel proud to accommodate on campus.
5) I do not head UL against war, I was invited to join.

by Earhart Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:55

First off I would like the 'by Earhart' line removed from the post obviously not written by my good self!

Secondly, the protests in SNN and the raising awareness in UL will not have any effect on the campaign against Terror. They will only prove to make Irish people suffer. It makes no difference whether aircraft refuel in Prestwick, Frankfurt or SNN.

Finally, you must realise that no-one (except maybe a handful of headcases) wants war. This is something that you seem to forget. No one wants to see hundreds or civilians and soliders slaughtered. They also don't want to see violence and criminal damage used as a means of making their voices heard.

Think of the workers!

by Derek Fri Feb 28, 2003 22:24

by Earhart Fri, Feb 28 2003, 4:36pm
Katherine Harford and the other students who are involved in showing the John Pilger film next Monday are to be congratulated for their efforts to inform the student body of the appalling crimes committed against the Iraqi people by successive American and British governments. The humanity of Ms. Harford and the other students in the UL anti war group is something that the University can or should be proud of. Over a million Iraqi people have died in little over a decade, the country has been continuously bombed during that time. One horrific example would be the attack by several RAF aircraft which resulted in a family of six, a shepherd, his father and his wife and four children, being blown to pieces, the area where those defenceless people were MURDERED was treeless, open country: a moonscape. They were clearly visible to the RAF pilots and were not a threat to the aircraft. Now that’s what I call “criminal damage”. The current “government” who have associated our country with the perpetrators of such crimes have done tremendous damage to the good name of our country, the anti war activists HAVE NOT, to a limited extent they have helped to restore the damage done by Ahern/Harney and co. to our reputation internationally.
Obviously, people employed in the Industrial Estate and at the Airport have every right to be concerned about their jobs, I am aware that very many of them are also opposed both to the use of Shannon for the purpose of assisting Bush/Blair in their forthcoming obscene resource war and to the murder of even more Iraqi people. I have protested against the war drive and will continue to do so because I would not wish to have it on my conscience that I stood by and did nothing while Washington and London engaged in another aggressive war.

by Earhart Fri Feb 28, 2003 17:36

Unfortunately such meetings are permitted within the ULSU Student Centre as they are open to all. This UL against the war group is not a ULSU recognised club or society. While it is called a UL group it need not represent the views of all the students within the University.

My only concern would be that this group which seems to be headed by Ms Harford would disgrace the name of the University during any protest. If they are just a group set up to make their opinions know, fair enough. If they set out to cause criminal damage or trespass on private property then that would be a hard blow to ULSU Clubs and Societies.

These groups are in fact doing damage to every day Irish citizens. US carriers are pulling out of SNN. This will cause a loss of jobs putting more people on welfare and ruining lives. Can these people live with that on their consciences?

by denise Tue Feb 25, 2003 16:05

you guys are quite funny,
katherine, an inspiration for many, a person who is out there campaigning and fighting for what she believes in to the utmost, who is not harming you in any way, whose bravery and committment are beyond question, yet it seems due to your insecurity and ignorance you pick on her. for the most unbelievable futile thing-her accent. i along with many others believed that that type of narrowmindedness was left behind in the past, but people like you carry it on. get with it, an accent does not categorise you or depict who you are.

katherine im so delighted about ye are doing in UL. hope ye keep it up. im only sorry im not there to help ye, but ye know ye have my full support,
in peace,
denise

by Bernadette Tue Feb 25, 2003 13:36

It is not up to the ULSU to condone an activity that takes place in the Students' Union building. The building in belong to the students of the University of Limerick community. This does not limit its use to a minority of students. The film is open to all to come and see. Equal to this, if a group of students feel the need to form a pro-war group within college this would be welcomed, at least it would foster debate, something that is badly needed.

To criticise someone on the basis of her accent or the mere fact that she actually feels strongly enough to get involved in a movement is beyond reproach. Whether you agree or not to make such assertions in such a manner is both cowardly and shameful.

Finally Redomd O'Laoire, you made the assertion that you are a supporter of liberal democracy and the free market. Your very opinions espoused in your comments show that either you have an eschewed notion of what liberal democracy is, or that quite frankly you do not understand the concept itself.

by Katherine Harford - UL against the war Tue Feb 25, 2003 13:07 0001546 at student dot ul dot ie

Firstly look at Irelands own history of emigration to England, America and Australia etc etc etc!! to know why many people who have had the opportunity to come back, do not have an Irish accent. Secondly I have lived in this country for many years, under its constitution- law and democratic system. Therefore I am, just like you and the rest of the people who live here, with Irish accent or not have the right to an opinion and a voice.
As for representing the above, NO way do I pretend or want to represent you. I am against a war in Iraq, I am against the use of Shannon Airport to facilitate the killing of innocent civilians. I represent me. A group that I belong to are showing the John Pilger video on Monday in UL, you are welcome, come out of the hiding place of Indymedia and tell me all your objections. If you, or any of the above, want a hegemonic, white, conservative country by trying to put of voices of objection. Sorry I won’t be put off; you’ll have to do better than this. i am sure you'll all have another little frenzy now to critise!

by Jape.eece Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:48 jape.eece at email dot com

Mark and Redmond,

Courageous Leaders? Bush and Blair? I am sorry but this has to be a piss take?
Please say that you do not think that a preemptive strike against Iraq is Courageous? Killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens is right?

From reading the announcement above there is no claim to represent anyone from UL merely stating that an AntiWar campaign is being set up in UL and it is with the showing of the John Pilger video.

Are you going to be having a Pro War meeting in UL? Young Fianna Fail meeting?

And what has someone's accent got to do with their opinion? That is racist

by Buddy of Bush and Blair Tue Feb 25, 2003 01:36

I think its great that Bush and Blair are standing up against these ruthless dictators. Now if I could only convince them not to put these ruthless dictators into power in the first place, we would save ourselves an awful lot of hassle.

by Redmond O'Laoire Tue Feb 25, 2003 00:54

Sadly Mark, I am afraid that the ULSU does. You are very much correct to speak out against this sort of thing. This “event” should be banned. Pilger is just another left wing subversive who is trying to prevent the leading powers in the free world from liberating the Iraqi people from the oppression of a monster like Saddam Hussein. I know that a million people have died and many more will die in the forthcoming war but there is always a price to be paid for freedom and democracy. That Harford person does not represent the student body as a whole, you and I are obviously on the same wavelength, we believe in a liberal democracy and the free market. Thankfully there are still leaders of outstanding courage like President Bush and Prime Minister Blair who are prepared to stand up against ruthless dictators.

by Mark - UL Student Mon Feb 24, 2003 20:37

Does the ULSU condone this kind of meetings being held in their building???

Oh and while you're at it. A woman with a strong british accent going on the (irish) radio speaking out against the Americans who are invading our country (meaning ireland) is very suspect indeed...

by Phuq Hedd Mon Feb 24, 2003 20:14

Otherwise you're just calling names and trying to start a "yes it is / no it isn't". I look forward to your clear, referenced detailed list of errors.

by ExPat Mon Feb 24, 2003 19:58

A great work of fiction by a professional U.S basher.

Sticking to the truth should give enough arguments against the war. These kind of one sided propaganda films are good for getting peoples emotions stirred up but not much else.

And yes I have seen it.

by Niall O Brolchain - Green Party Mon Feb 24, 2003 19:14 niallob at esatclear dot ie Galway

We showed this in Galway recently and drew an enormous crowd. For nearly an hour and a half you could hear a pin drop.
This is an excellent film and well worth seeing.