Direct Action, Shannon, March 1st.

by Sean Mon Feb 24, 2003 18:41

this is exactly what I wanted to know , I'll be there with the white flags. Good on ya!

by Anonymous Mon Feb 24, 2003 18:46

Well done. That sounds like a very well organised approach ye are taking to the protest. I would imagine things could have gotten a bit chaotic but ye seemed to have planned for it really well.

Could be a little difficult getting mass crowds to Shannon I suppose, but hopefully I will be pleasently surprised again as I was on the 15th.

Keep on promoting it!

Though I imagine the authorities could well be monitoring this newswire, I suppose ye had to publish it like this to inform everyone.

Roll on Saturday!

by George Bush Aherne Mon Feb 24, 2003 18:48

Thanks for letting us know in advance of your plans. Now we can take effective plans of our own to counteract you.

by Anonymous Mon Feb 24, 2003 18:53

Indymedia - Can you create a front page article on Shannon - and a centrepoint where people can post up bus times etc. etc???

You do not have to be seen to be promoting any law breaking. You only have to assist in giving as much information to people as possible that a protest is being staged there.

???

by Lone gunman Mon Feb 24, 2003 19:13 preacher104 at hotmail dot com

An Garda Siochana,
Aer Rianta ,
US Embassy Dublin,
CIA,FBI,NSA,The White House,

Anyone who is so IDIOTIC as to post their plans and tactics on an open website like this DESERVES to be arrested and have their heads cracked with a riot baton!!!
Thanks for fucking up a better plan yet again Morons!!!!

by Phuq Hedd Mon Feb 24, 2003 19:25

This could make for a huge, open, democratic and succesful non-violent direct action.

It only makes sense to publish this because it allows people to make a decision about what level of involvement they want to have.

Trying to be "secret" about these sorts of things is a waste of time if you're trying to organise thousands of people in an open, fair manner.

The only types of action that can be secret are small ones that just involve you and yer mates and those are often less useful than a huge one like this.

This strategy is clever because it will take too large a mobilisation of the Gardai/army to defeat a huge number of people, it allows us all to choose our level of involvement and it makes it very clear to everyone that this is non-violent beyond a doubt.

Quit whining. Chooose your level of involvement and turn up.

by James McKenna Mon Feb 24, 2003 19:42

Why not stay at Shannon? Do we ALL have to rush home. Could we not have a Drive-by-peace-camping of the airport?

"The Mobile Peace Camp" could then be born to pop up at Dail Eireann , US Embassy or wherever and whenever they decide. Only they will know the duration of the stay. Perhaps we could encourage a TD or two to join us?

by z Mon Feb 24, 2003 20:02

'respect for diversity of tactics' means fuck off, we'll do what we want - lenin or bakunin, same vangardist strategy.

by Anonymous Mon Feb 24, 2003 20:05

Yup, dead right there James. T'would be great if people did that.

I thought it was terrible that they closed the first one.

by Sparks Mon Feb 24, 2003 20:15

The troops on the far side of the fence are carrying steyr augs. Minister Smith has stated that they have not been issued with non-lethal weapons.

Does the possibility of an accident not occur to anyone on either side of this particular argument?

A mass trespass would seem to be a perfect recipe for a tragic accident. What safety precautions are being taken? Who is advising the people formulating these plans and are they aware of the parameters of these rifles, specifically how far downrange their lethal range extends? (It's well over a mile to the best of my knowlege).

by Phuq Hedd Mon Feb 24, 2003 20:24

Obviously it is in the interests of those that would like to see the numbers of this effective anti-war action reduced to try and create a climate of fear and hype to keep people away. I wonder are you one of those?

Do you really believe that Irish soldiers are going to open fire on peaceful protestors in the current sticky position the government is in? I find it highly unlikely. I would imagine that it is going to be a real pain in the arse to be a Garda or soldier on duty because the first sign of violence that they offer the media will hang them out to dry. The RTS police-riot signalled the end of the public tolerance for police criminality and you can be sure that public tolerance for any police/army violence in the context of subverting and undermining Irish sovereignty in defence of the USA's unpopular war would see speedy criminal prosecutions of both the rank and the file involved plus an end to any political careers for Cowen, Smith, Ahern, Harney and McDowell. They are already on the ropes politically and the opportunists of other parties are hoping desperately that they'll do something even stupider than their current course of action.

March 1st will be a massive, peaceful and effective demonstration of the will of the Irish people.

by Sparks Mon Feb 24, 2003 20:51

My stance is to avoid harming others until there is no other choice, and then to take the course of action that causes the least amount of harm. Therefore I'm neither anti- nor pro-war. I did march on the 15th if that helps your cataloging.

I'm just trying to point out that this is a plan that creates a tense situation around a group of armed troops. In these situations, accidents (which will happen) can have serious and ugly consequences.

Are there contingency plans at least, in case someone needs medical assistance?

by Adam Mon Feb 24, 2003 21:31

The presence of the army is something we have been taking into account when planning this action. One of the reasons (there were others as well) why we decided:

"Once the fence has been dismantled we shall cross it and shall remain in the grass verge on the other side of the fence. We will not attempt to occupy the runway or to reach any planes, the purpose of this action is to demonstrate that the state can not secure the 'warport' against the anger of the people."

is because it's safer. Yes, if we all charged in uncontrolled mob fashion at the soldiers one of them might shoot. if we just occupy the land just inside the fence (and they know that in advance remember) they won't. They know what'll happen if they do and will be very anxious not to if they can avoid it.

by Dannie McQ Mon Feb 24, 2003 23:07 Onefukedupkid at hotmail dot com HTTP://myeyesareopen.tripod.com 0879884158

Does anybody know of a bus or a car or anything that is leaving from Donegal to go to Shannon. If so will they please post a reply or get in contact me on 0879884158 or e-mail me at [email protected]. Thank you.

by doheochai - Socialist Party Tue Feb 25, 2003 01:32

I expect the demonstration in Shannon on March 1st to be substantial, significantly bigger than the last one. I have read with interest the plans for the “direct action” protest on that day. There are a number of serious things that need to be considered about this form of action.

1) What will be the effect of the action on the mood of opposition to the war among ordinary people?

Despite what has been suggested on this board, previous actions over the past couple of months have had the effect of turning people off actively supporting the anti-war campaign, particularly in the mid-west and most significantly among airport workers. While certain sections of activists (far from a majority) think this is a good idea, the reality is that there is relatively little support among the general population for this type of action. Ordinary people opposed to the war are receiving an education crash course in the politics of war but, in my view, peoples’ consciousness is not running in this direction. I have lived in Shannon for 20 years, I speak every day to people in the town and I think I have a good sense of what the mood and attitude is among people here.

2) What attitude will the State take towards this type of action?

Both the original posting and “Phuq Hedd” suggest that the RTS riot will stay the hand of the state. The alternative has not been discussed. The State has been embarrassed on a number of occasions by breaches of security at Shannon Airport. They are unlikely to want to be embarrassed again. The Police can adopt two different strategies for dealing with this demonstration (a) to block the demonstration at the entrance to the Airport, which would deny access to the fencing, (b) to allow the march to progress to the terminal building and deal with anyone attempting to breach the perimeter fence with “appropriate” measures. They may decide to teach people a lesson and do just that. Remember that the Establishment have been using the previous incidents as a propaganda tool to attack the anti-war campaign (it does have an effect, and we would be foolish to ignore this). Headlines the following day – We had to ensure the safety to air travellers needing to land – These people preach peace but behave in a violent fashion – We had to take these steps to ensure the safety and security of the airport. Don’t be under any illusions that the media will be in any way sympathetic to the anti-war movement if this happens. Finally the state is looking to put RTS behind them and get back to “normal” policing activity.

3) If the fence is breached how do you control what happens then?

Assuming that it is possible to rip down the fence without any interference from the Police or Army how do you ensure that those involved will just take one step over the fence. All it takes is for a handful of people to decide to make a run for it and the action will take on a momentum of its own. You have no way of controlling it.

4) What are the risks to protestors?

As “Sparks” said, and was ridiculed for it, accidents can happen. Deliberate actions can also happen. It is impossible to predict what will happen if and when the fence is breached. If the Cops decide to use their horses, dogs and water cannon there can be absolute mayhem and confusion with unpredictable results.

5) Will a successful action result in the end of the use of Shannon by US warplanes?

It is likely that all military flights will be diverted to other airports on March 1st. Even occupying the runway would only stop flights landing for a limited period. It cannot be done indefinitely. There are two ways of stopping the use of Shannon, (a) getting the workers to black all military flights and (b) putting enough continuous political pressure on the Government to force them to back down out of fear for their own political futures. Actions like those being planned on March 1st will at best only have an ancillary role in this.

Just to finish off. Do not expect things to go as planned on March 1st. Given the messing about with two demos etc. this has the potential to be very messy. Don’t assume that everyone will follow the plan. Just like I don’t think this is the correct tactic at this time, it is likely that some people think that this action does not go far enough. Do not ignore the possibility of the state attempting to provoke things from within the crowd. Do not underestimate the willingness of the Establishment to do what ever is necessary to support Bush. Don’t forget Bertie is looking for another stick to beat the anti-war campaign with.

I will be on the demonstration on March 1st. I have taken my 4 children on previous demonstrations to the Airport, I will not be taking them to this one. I am not willing to take the risk. I hope it is a very big, successful and effective demonstration. I hope the end result will see no more US military planes in Shannon. However, I believe this is the wrong tactic at this time, I will continue to argue against it as I have done. I hope I am wrong.

by simon - self Tue Feb 25, 2003 02:01

Can somebody just clarify the goal of a mass occupation of Shannon airport. I reckon that in the present situation it will cause unecessary tension and will without doubt cause another media circus that will do more damage to the anti-war movement than good.

The symbolic significance of the damaging of the plane a few weeks ago will be lost. When you march into the airfield what will you do - stand around, laugh and play gabba through a rediculous sound system and then go home a few hours later. Preventing nothing.

The highlighting of the continued use of shannon will be just as effectively maintained by way of peaceful protest outside the airfield. The momentum of an inclusive movement may suffer.

just looking at it rationally..

by Chekov Tue Feb 25, 2003 03:47

To respond to Donechai's 5 points

1. I have heard this claim repeated several times but not a shred of evidence to support it. Surely all the evidence points to the fact that the direct actions have contributed to the growth of the movement from the simple fact that we have by far the largest movement on this issue that Ireland has seen in a long time and the main reason that people know about this issue is through direct action and its reporting in the media.

When Dubsky tagged that plane, US use of Shannon was little known in Ireland and with every direct action it has become more widely known. I don't think that the issue of Shannon would have been highlighted anyway as the war approached, as it had a very low profile during the first Gulf war. Direct actions highlighted the use of Shannon and also showed that there was serious opposition to it, both of which were key factors in so many people being mobilised on February 15th. Most people feel more personally implicated than in previous wars and the demand that Bertie stop refueling is much more achievable than asking Dubya not to invade Iraq.

2. If there are enough police to stop the protestors from achieving this, then it doesn't succeed. At least it is an attempt and its success depends on the number of people who are brave and committed enough to take part. As for the chance of them wanting to return to "normal policing activities". I think it is extremely unlikely that they will want pictures of police attacking protestors all over the telly, especially considering that they are protesting about an issue which is dominating public debate, where the government faces the biggest mass movement the country has seen in a long time. We can be pretty much entirely guaranteed that there will be no violence from the protestors, since there is absolutely no history of such and violent protestors don't just fall from the sky. Perhaps the police might implant an agent provocateur to provoke violence? Even if they get pictures of violent protestors and fill the media with them, there are sure to be enough cameras to allow a truer picture to seep out after a few days. I'd say that the last thing in the world that McDowell or Byrne want is another PR disaster. If these are not conditions to attempt such actions, with greatest confidence of safety, then when?

3. The previous time in September when the fence was pulled down, in a far less organised action, the protestors advanced to the edge of the grass field, and sat down. Nobody tried to go on to the runway. The protestors did nothing more hot-headed than to sing 'give peace a chance' with a guitar and a couple of drums. This time around there is no reason to think that the protestors will be any more reckless. Also, since the plan has been openly released and widely discussed among activists who favour direct action, there will be a large number of people who are aware what the limits of the action are and can advise any individuals who engage in dangerous actions. Basically, it's up to people who participate to watch out for reckless behaviour on the part of others and ask them to stop. This can work remarkably well on direct actions where people are running a high risk of a beating if their comrades get out of hand.

4. As I said above, I think that it is extremely unlikely that the government will want to see pictures of water-cannons and mounted charges on television. However, all such actions are unpredictable to some extent and people who take part have to weigh this up and see if they are willing to take the risk.

5. I think that the government is under significant pressure from the US to provide greater security for Shannon. A few more security breaches and they might pull their business out of Shannon to punish the Irish government. A large number of people doing this type of action would also be a real fright to the government.

by nolympics Tue Feb 25, 2003 07:03

i agree with chekov. the question now for everyone is whether or not we are prepared to escalate our efforts and stop the war. last weeks demonstrations made it quite clear (as polls have done) that people are resolutely opposed to any violent action being taken against Iraqis. yet the Irish government are doing everything they can to subvert both the constitution and the declared will of the people by facilitating the americans. a physical intervention at this point is justified and necessary. the governments position is indefensible politically and in any sort of sober debate. nevertheless they infer that the cost of not cooperating with the war makers is greater than the domestic cost of cooperation. this appears to be the calculation and is the elephant in the editorial rooms of the newspapers and so on. for those of us who oppose the war and dont actually want to see it happen shannon offers an oppurtunity to raise the domestic cost. perhaps the state will respond with violence and the media, loyally, with monstrosities. perhaps not.

by Nellie Tue Feb 25, 2003 07:44

good luck to ye, smelly wankers.I ll be watching as ye get yer heads cracked. might knock some sense into ye.

by Nellie Tue Feb 25, 2003 07:51

Its wasters like ye direct action that alienate moderate people like me. I would be anti this war but there is no way I will voice that opinion now in any meaningful way since that knacker Kelly botched the plane. Well done Mary! Its my money that will help pay for the damage. I hope the army reacts as trained to any breach of the fence. sincerely. you really piss me off with your causes. What do you think is worth fighting for other than cheaper rizzlas and cider?

by Ruairi Tue Feb 25, 2003 08:44

Folks, can't be with you but wishing you all the best with the direct action. There will be a vigil in your support in Donegal.

As many of you know, radical non-violent direct action is never possible. It never has been. Many who are so quick to condemn NVDA as a tactic for change are unaware of the contribution it has made to their own lives. NVDA played a part in creating the trade union movement, in achieving the right to vote, in getting women's equal rights, in ending slavery, in achieving the 40 hour week, the concept of a weekend, in liberating India, East Timor and many other oppressed lands.

The oppressor - call them what you want but that's what they are - has billions worth of weaponary, media and police resources - and marching up and down the road only serves to wake them up a little - but never actually change their mind. Radical desperate times call for radical actions. Shannon is, as one person to aptly described it, part of the war machine just as the Krackow rail line was part of Hitler's death camps in Auchwiztc.

To those who cannot take part (or even support) in the Direct Action: at least take some time to think about what is at stake. Bush wants an 'endless war' and he has quite the list to follow Iraq. The consequences of this proposed war are far greater than we can possibly contemplate. Shannon is Ireland's contribution to what could be a sick regrettable injustice.

All out on Saturday - and if not: at least try think of the bigger picture!

by Ruairi Tue Feb 25, 2003 08:51

Line 2 above should read:

"As many of you know, radical non-violent direct action is never possible WITHOUT CRITICISM AND CONDEMNATION FROM THE CHATTERING LIBERALS AND ARM CHAIR REBELS."

by Cork Anarchists Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:16

All up for this action.

Bus from Cork 10.30am Opera House organised by Cork Anti-War Campaign

by Mike Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:29

I wonder if the people who die in Iraq will be comforted by the thought that the anti-war movement in Ireland didn't do anything that might alienate some mythical group who won't oppose war because of a non-violent ddirect action.

War within weeks thats what the message from the US is. Italians are blockading the arms trains. Wrong tactic, wrong time????

When the workers at Shannon go on strike every single thing the US army needs will be in the warzone it'll be too late to save any lives.

by Harass the Brass Tue Feb 25, 2003 13:14

Read about how important Direct Action was instrumental in stopping the Vietnam War (related link) and other wars too.

by Chekov Tue Feb 25, 2003 13:15

quote:

"Its wasters like ye direct action that alienate moderate people like me"

right after:

"...smelly wankers.I ll be watching as ye get yer heads cracked. might knock some sense into ye."

Sounds pretty moderate. It's the opposition from bitter twisted saddos like yourself that confirm that we're doing the right thing.

by Foreign eyes Tue Feb 25, 2003 13:50

In England folks took over a military base. In Italy, people are blockading railroads and train drivers joined in (probably moderate people with kids and all). And youse are shitting yourself to just wolk over a silly fence?
There were "moderate" people who risked their lives to save people from deportation during WWII and the resistance to wars history is full of forgotten "moderate" people who made a difference.
You are all too comfy in your little lives.
Protests never ever stopped a war. If you limit yourself to that you are just a christian trying to have clean conscious. You probably have a very well paid job as well. You won't go anywhere but that's ok because you don't want to change anything. Your simple head just thinks that wars are bad. You see the world leaders as entities that will never be removed. Because you have no idea about history. Because you have no idea where to go. Because after all it's not that bad...for you. You probably think that the french and german leaders are great. What you don't know is that there are real dictators in their own countries and the France destroyed Africa and still does. This is fine for you because it is not a "war" but it actually is since the people have no choice and die as a result of imperialist greed in Africa.
We have the right to be angry.
We have the right to be heard and if they don't listen, we have the right to walk over the fence if we fucking want to.

by conor (wsm personal capacity) Tue Feb 25, 2003 14:00 krossphader at hotmail dot com

hmmm: A mass trespass would seem to be a perfect recipe for a tragic accident. What safety precautions are being taken? Who is advising the people formulating these plans and are they aware of the parameters of these rifles, specifically how far downrange their lethal range extends? (It's well over a mile to the best of my knowlege).

me: BE SERIOUS there is not the remotest possiblity that armed soldiers will be posted any where near the demo.

The Irish state is well aware that even one stray bullet passing next to or near a protestor would be the end of tHE stop over for good.
This WILL NOT happen.
USE YOUR BRAIN AND STOP SOWING PANIC

phuq hedd: the RTS police-riot signalled the end of the public tolerance for police criminality and you can be sure that public tolerance for any police/army violence in the context of subverting and undermining Irish sovereignty in defence of the USA's unpopular war would see speedy criminal prosecutions of both the rank and the file involved plus an end to any political careers for Cowen, Smith, Ahern, Harney and McDowell.

me:I'd strongly agree with you in general.
The army with guns will not be deployed.

Unfortunately I would not rule out cops with batons at all we must be prepared for some violence from the state and we need to be honest it could happen !

The army shooting though would be a bridge way way too far and the politicians are well aware of it

sparks: I'm just trying to point out that this is a plan that creates a tense situation around a group of armed troops. In these situations, accidents (which will happen) can have serious and ugly consequences.

me: It just won't happen - if it does and I hope and am convinced it won't !!!!
- THAT WOULD BE THE END OF THE STOP OVER

Adam: "Once the fence has been dismantled we shall cross it and shall remain in the grass verge on the other side of the fence. We will not attempt to occupy the runway or to reach any planes, the purpose of this action is to demonstrate that the state can not secure the 'warport' against the anger of the people."

is because it's safer.

me: This makes sense - its about the most planning you can do for this sort of situation

doheochai: Despite what has been suggested on this board, previous actions over the past couple of months have had the effect of turning people off actively supporting the anti-war campaign, particularly in the mid-west and most significantly among airport workers.

me: Where's your evidence? in genral its provoked massive debate - the polls are strengthing. The massive marches in dublin, Belfast etc wer eafter several actions. Is this just a mantra for you people or do you have proof?

How many workers have YOU or your party talked to. Do you guys have some contacts - have you talked to them?

- tryed to sell some arguments

- I think the only workers who will be pised of are the air port cops.

d:They may decide to teach people a lesson and do just that.

me:They may

its a risk we're asking people to take in full knowledge of the consequences.

All it takes is for a handful of people to decide to make a run for it and the action will take on a momentum of its own. You have no way of controlling it.

me:Again true - though , in fairness, the action in october which was completely unplanned - saw people behave very cautiously -- they did not go for the run way or the planes.
I suppose we just have faith in the common sense of ordinary people without self appointed leaders.
You might call it a revolutionary stance faith in the class and all that !

As “Sparks” said, and was ridiculed for it, accidents can happen. Deliberate actions can also happen. It is impossible to predict what will happen if and when the fence is breached. If the Cops decide to use their horses, dogs and water cannon there can be absolute mayhem and confusion with unpredictable results.

me: Who ridiculed the poor fella?

You're quite correct and its fair to point this out people should be aware of the possible risks if they take part

) Will a successful action result in the end of the use of Shannon by US warplanes?

It is likely that all military flights will be diverted to other airports on March 1st. Even occupying the runway would only stop flights landing for a limited period. It cannot be done indefinitely. There are two ways of stopping the use of Shannon, (a) getting the workers to black all military flights and (b) putting enough continuous political pressure on the Government to force them to back down out of fear for their own political futures. Actions like those being planned on March 1st will at best only have an ancillary role in this.

me: No ther are 3 or maybe more!

the world air ways thing proves quite clearly that there is a third.

The fear of further security breaches is what caused them to pull out. Its more or less a "CIA" air line and they were sending a mesage to Bertie - control this or we go !

I agree with (a) and (b) above. To that end I would ask the socialist party and the IAWM to use their excellent trade union contacts to appeal to workers in the air port - lets go beyond the abstract "calls to the labour movemnet" and do some practical hard work on the ground

I'd say March 1ST could have an important and inspirational role. Look at the UK - non violent direct protest is spreading like a rash. we have public support lets use it. Lets do something that might be the final nail in the security coffin. Lets show some real leadership - that leads through example!

d: Just to finish off. Do not expect things to go as planned on March 1st. Given the messing about with two demos etc. this has the potential to be very messy. Don’t assume that everyone will follow the plan. Just like I don’t think this is the correct tactic at this time, it is likely that some people think that this action does not go far enough. Do not ignore the possibility of the state attempting to provoke things from within the crowd. Do not underestimate the willingness of the Establishment to do what ever is necessary to support Bush. Don’t forget Bertie is looking for another stick to beat the anti-war campaign with.

All the points are good
- we don't we won't expect things to go exactly as planed - the best laid plan might not survive the first move of battle

- hey want to add your considerable nukmber and intelegence to making sure it does work

....hmmm thought not...

I have taken my 4 children on previous demonstrations to the Airport, I will not be taking them to this one. I am not willing to take the risk. I hope it is a very big, successful and effective demonstration. I hope the end result will see no more US military planes in Shannon. However, I believe this is the wrong tactic at this time, I will continue to argue against it as I have done. I hope I am wrong.

I think the kids angle was a bit of a cheap shot!

Go back read the orignal posting

- we have gone out of our way to ensure safe areas
- there will be a large peaceful protest organised by IAWM
- we will be well away from it. If you guy's spent as much time and intellegence organising like revolutionaires as you do thinking of ways to give out about people trying to do something effective - we might make a wee bit of progress !

by simon - self Tue, Feb 25 2003, 1:01am

Can somebody just clarify the goal of a mass occupation of Shannon airport. I reckon that in the present situation it will cause unecessary tension and will without doubt cause another media circus that will do more damage to the anti-war movement than good.

me: Actually media circus focused on Shannon is always good and direct action has massively contributed to this goal so far !

shannon
by Nellie Tue, Feb 25 2003, 6:44am

good luck to ye, smelly wankers.I ll be watching as ye get yer heads cracked. might knock some sense into ye.

And you'll also be watching as the bombers pull out with their tails between there legs !

cheks: Sounds pretty moderate. It's the opposition from bitter twisted saddos like yourself that confirm that we're doing the right thing.

Absolutely !!!!

Conor

by kitty-kat Tue Feb 25, 2003 14:33

For those of you who are SINCERELY concerned about the saftey of the action it would be worth your while to attend a Non-violent Direct Action workshop which is being held in the teacher's club on wednesday night at about 9pm.

If we could discuss this in an honest, intelligent manner, and stop deliberately twisting the truth, I think it would serve everyone (except those with ulterior motives, obviously) much MUCH better. read the statement again please. everyone. The whole point of announcing this action beforehand is to give people the opportunity to decide their level of involvement. there will be no bullets (where the fuck do you think we are??)
With reference to (i don't remember the author) the actions that are taking place in England, Italy etc. compared with ours... you're right, this squabbling and fear mongering is destructive, yellow bellied and frankly embarrasing - I'm cringing. This is the LEAST we can do. Less of the scaremongering, i didn't see any tanks on 15th. This's all VERY SWP. i suppose you think the entire mainstream media are going to be *put off* by the potential for "violence" and spend saturday curled up with a nice book and a cup of cocoa? PLease. get over your personal agenda and help stop a war.

by Chekov Tue Feb 25, 2003 14:35

Page 3: Headline "Group to invade 'warport'"

They even give a pretty reasonable account of what we have planned with a couple of sections printed verbatim (naturally with the customary Herald typos - learn to cut n paste boyz.

Page 12: Peace Groups still on warpath (full page)
Including extensive quotes from Dubsky's piece posted here on the newswire.

It seems that indymedia is setting the agenda again, the lazy hacks aren't even bothering contacting people, just pulling quotes straight off indymedia. Anyway, this amounts to a huge amount of publicity for the action and even better the tone of these articles is amazingly objective for the Herald, almost no sensationlaism or inaccuracies, and they are highlighting the debate within the anti-war movement.

by DA Supporter Tue Feb 25, 2003 15:02

Just heard that Direct Action in the UK has forced the temporary closure of up to 100 Esso petrol
stations. Esso have played a leading role in getting the US to abandon Koyoto and are a strong
lobby group that regularly block efforts to raise fuel efficiency and other measures to reduce oil
consumption.

Esso also support the war. Esso are the UK subsidiary of Texas-based ExxonMobil.

by Disgusted - disgusted Tue Feb 25, 2003 15:30 disgusted at hotmail dot com

Im disgusted by your intentions to invade the airfield at Shannon.Bringing large numbers of unauthorizied persons on to the airfield could potentially lead to an air accident.Any person who knows even a little about aviation will tell you the potential hazards that even the smallest foriegn object(ie rubbish)can be to an aircraft's engine.The ingestaion of such objects has led to airliners crashing in the past.That is why for the large part the numbers of persons and what your allowed carry on an airfield is restricted.If your action is successful i hope you can live with the guilt of being the cause of an airliner crashing at shannon airport or over the town of Shannon with a potential 15,000 innocent victims below.Please realise that your actions have consequences that you my not have concidered and reconsider.Stay within the law and your message may not be ignored by the general public.

by Chekov Tue Feb 25, 2003 15:36

The idea that a mass trespass could cause an airline crash is scaremongering pure and simple. The action is well advertised in advance, carried in the mainstream media, and there are no intentions to attempt to get on to the runway. If there is any breach of airport security the authorities will divert traffic from Shannon in any case.

Anonymous scaremongering is not very credible, by the way. State who you are and what you are affiliated with and it might carry some weight, otherwise there will always be the suspicion that you are an opponent of the anti-war movement who is trying to scupper the action.

by conor (wsm personal ) Tue Feb 25, 2003 15:37

Amazing developement - the indo and herald have now found out who actually called the demo on Saturday - what next !!! Truthful reporting of EVERYTHING

Anti-war movement to announce details of Shannon protest
conor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
(from http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=9&si=31102
NOTE you have to register with unison.ie to follow the link)
06:39 Tuesday February 25th 2003


The Irish Anti-War Movement is to hold a press conference later today to announce details of a protest at Shannon Airport this Saturday. The demonstration was called by a network of local activists called Grassroots Gathering to protest at the continued use of Shannon by the United States military in preparation for a war against Iraq. The IAWM is expected to use today's press conference to respond to attacks on anti-war protestors by Mary Harney, Michael McDowell and Brian Cowen

by conor (wsm personal) Tue Feb 25, 2003 16:00

Train actions going strong in Italy up to yesterday - this now looks like it could have quite an impact on the war build up - some have been blocked for more then 3 days

http://italy.indymedia.org/features/multilanguage/#509

by RBB Tue Feb 25, 2003 16:03

i called the protest. this megaphone kills anarchists.

by denise Tue Feb 25, 2003 16:57

hi guys,
im not entirely sure how i feel about the DA on march 1st, what it will achieve, the consequencecs. but i do know that SOMETHING is needed, the situation is totally getting out of hand and action is needed, civil disobedience is needed. we live in a democracy no more. fair play to GR for the organising of it, and good luck to ye on the day.
its all very well to sit on your arse and give out about the proposed DA but what alternatives are ye coming up with?? at least GR are active and commmitted. as for the

by denise Tue Feb 25, 2003 17:10

hi guys,
im not entirely sure how i feel about the DA on march 1st, what it will achieve, the consequencecs. but i do know that SOMETHING is needed, the situation is totally getting out of hand and action is needed, civil disobedience is needed. we live in a democracy no more. fair play to GR for the organising of it, and good luck to ye on the day.
its all very well to sit on your arse and give out about the proposed DA but what alternatives are ye coming up with?? at least GR are active and commmitted. as for the SP guy from Shannon {sorry cant remember your name, and I have met you before, so no disrespect intended),although you say the majority of Shannon people are against the action, you DO NOT speak for all the people of Ireland here, nor ALL the people of Shannon.
talking and talking and talking has its advantages but not now, now action is needed,
in peace,
denise

by Phuq Hedd Tue Feb 25, 2003 17:11

denise, not GR. GR = Globalise Resistance. It will be great if GR turn up and join the direct action, or as observers/witnesses or whatever, but don't confuse the two groups.

See you all there! This could be a moment for the Irish left to be PROUD of! Let's make sure we work together. Ignore the trolls, welcome your comrades from SWP, LY, WSM, SP, SF, SA, AF, non-affiliated!

by Rose Tue Feb 25, 2003 18:21

Globalise Resistance off our backs. No hijacking!

by Chekov Tue Feb 25, 2003 18:26

After a couple of successful direct actions in the UK, the yanks are sending in the national guard in to guard their bases.

I wouldn't say they'd get away with that here.

The time is right, let's chase those warplanes out of here!

by A rational observer Tue Feb 25, 2003 22:59

Aw sure, nice try lads, but you haven't an icecreams chance in hell of getting near the fence! Chekov seems pleased that the DA has attracted media attention and I wonder if that was the real intention of all this. If you wanted to haul down the fence (or do anything serious), you shouldn't have slapped it all over indymedia - you should have asked people to join a DA group on the day, and put forward options for discussion then. At the minute the cops know precisely what's planned and they'll be all over the white flag like flies on shit! At least the pinkos will have a nice day out...ALL HAIL THE PINK FLAG!! This 'event' seems more like posturing than anything else.

by Chekov Wed Feb 26, 2003 03:14

If enough people get off their arses and take part, it will succeed - simple as that.

If enough so-called anti-war activists sneer and snipe from the sidelines when somebody tries to do something, it might not. At least the Grassroots Network is trying to do something.

Think about it. There will be a demonstration at Shannon with thousands of people at the site of Ireland's collusion in this brutal war. One of the organisers of the demonstration are proposing that people take mass action to try to undermine the government's ability to guarantee security at Shannon, which has been proven to be a weak link by the fact that 3 military airlines have now pulled out DUE to direct action. The other organiser of the demo (including several 'revolutionary' parties) are proposing that people listen to fiery rhetoric from politicians, wave placards and chant "one solution revolution (or was that one solution obey the law)". Meanwhile, a few yards away, planes refuel on their way to kill Iraqis. Who is doing the posturing?

The insinuation that the whole thing was a media stunt is ludicrous and stupid. Why do you think that GNAW posted it to the media? How on earth are GNAW supposed to let people know about this if not through the media? Mass direct action depends on enough people taking part and thus it is necessary to let them know about the plans in advance. It would be a reckless person who got involved in an unspecified action with a bunch of strangers whom they had just met at a demonstration, so informing people on the day is not feasible.

Back to your placards with your rationale!

by A rational observer again Wed Feb 26, 2003 03:33

Yes, Chekov, if only the masses ('people') would get off their arses! Too true. The masses are always leaving the anarchists down, aren't they?

On the other hand, 100,000 or more of them hit the streets in Dublin recently. People came to the conclusion that this war is immoral and that refuelling at Shannon is inexcusable, and they marched. Did they come out because of (entirely righteous) acts of civil disobedience at Shannon? I doubt it. Those incidents provided very valuable publicity but Irish people mobilised alongside many others across the globe (who hardly came out because of direct action at Shannon!). Moreover, while there have been incidents of DA, the vast majority across the world chose to protest by marching, chanting and (yes!) waving placards. Bloody dinosaurs, says you.

by A rational observer yet again Wed Feb 26, 2003 04:20

"If enough people get off their arses and take part, it will succeed - simple as that." - Chekov

Lets rephrase: "If enough people get off their arses and take part, it will succeed - simplistic as that." Mmm...that's better. You see, the truth is that if "enough people" got "off their arses" we could have a genuine social revolution tommorrow. Yes, I quite like that idea!

Seriously though, I do actually think that the GNAW proposed action has zero chance of succeeding and hence has to be seen as little more than a case of throwing shapes and posturing. And that is meant as a comradely criticism (though I know it sounds like the hard word).

by Chekov Wed Feb 26, 2003 04:35

anarchists are hardly waiting for the mythic masses to take action - as can be seen from some of the actions to date. In any case masses of people are already mobilising against the war. 100,000 marched in Dublin and several thousand may well come to Shannon on March 1st. The question for all these people who are already willing to do something against the war is 'what is the most effective approach'. I think that, in Shannon, disrupting the operation of the airport is a much more effective way of taking action against the war than simply marching. I've nothing against marching, or even placards, but there is no point JUST marching. If movements want to effect change they have to take effective action at some point.

by Valid Source - DFI Wed Feb 26, 2003 07:28

defence forces are being issued battons and the APC's are carrying 2 rubber bullet guns on board in preperation for sat.
If you are planning on taking part be careful of who you are beside, if they do anything you will be brought down with them.

by Magneto Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:30

How about a yellow flag section for Lord Haugh Haugh and the 'Socialist' Party.

by Joe Sheehan - just me at the moment Wed Feb 26, 2003 13:37

I have great respect for all that take direct action and it is a valid tool.
I have two problems with this proposed action
unlike the actions of Dubsky, Mary Kelly and the Catholic Workers most of those involved will mask up and not take responsibility for their action. The action then looses its power just looks like a unruly rabble.
From what I have seen and heard so far this action is so unorganised it is almost comical. For any Direct Action to work planning is vitally important.
Unfortunately i do not think this will achieve anything and those taking part will not get anywhere near the fence, all "organisers" will be marked and lifted as soon as the gardai get the opportunity. I really do hope that I am wrong and this is a huge success but being a realist I can not see it happening.
I wish all taking part the very best of luck and hope it achieves what you all hope it will.

by Andrew Wed Feb 26, 2003 16:09

A lot of the problem with this 'debate' on the proposal is the odd assumptions people make. For instance Joe what evidence do you have for the claim that "most of those involved will mask up and not take responsibility for their action". I've not seen any proposal that people should mask up. It's even odder when you then go on to contradict yourself in saying "all "organisers" will be marked and lifted as soon as the gardai get the opportunity". So first you say they won't "take responsibility for their action" and then they will all be arrested (and presumably thus be made to take responsability).

Then we have the very odd response to the public presentation of quite a detailed plan that "From what I have seen and heard so far this action is so unorganised it is almost comical. For any Direct Action to work planning is vitally important."

Surely what you have just read is a a pretty detailed plan, true it doesn't mention everything we are organising (eg legal observers) but thats because some of this organistion is not yet finalised. It's also worth mentioning that soem of us have organised events before which in advance everyone was saying 'this will be a riot' but which passed off peacefully on the day. The RTS in September was one example where everyone and his dog was getting onto the radio to predict a riot that totally failed to emerge on the day.

Thanks though for at least wishing us luck but the nature of this plan means its not luck we need but numbers. And if lots of people decide 'I won't take part because this is not perfect' then we won't have the numbers. This plan is very ambitious and we have acknowledged the risks involved - but stopping the war is rather an ambitious aim and we are running out of time.

by Joe Sheehan Wed Feb 26, 2003 17:32

Andrew, my comments are genuine concerns, honestly I do not think that there is enough support from people prepared to take part for the action to be effective. If on Saturday at the actions works I will be the happiest person ever to be proved wrong. I really do hope that i am wrong and it works out well.
To answer your comments, the masking up comment is made as i was at all Shannon demonstrations so far and those that have taken part in Direct Actions, other than ploughshares type, have very often been masked up. I know that people choose to wear the mask for many reasons but if you are going to do the action at least do it openly and accountably.
As for the "organisers" bit I am saying that the Gardai will try and lift people they see as ringleaders of the action, I am sure that none of those involved will as Eoin Dubsky did phone and request arrest for taking the action. That is what I meant by taking responsibility for the action.
The detailed plan is one page of a press release the result of two meetings, is it not? That is what i mean by not sufficiently well planned. There is not nearly enough planning done for the action, an action this big needs a lot more planning!

by Andrew Wed Feb 26, 2003 17:58

Joe I'm sure your comments are genuine but they do seem to break down to 'if things aren't organised exactly the way I want them then I'm not interested'. Now this works out fine for actions involving small groups of people (where agreement is easy). But if you want a mass action then you will have to accept compromises and the fact that not everyone there will have identical motivations to yours.

In an ideal world there would be no shortage of time (war is close) or money needed to facilitate organisation. We have to deal with the limitations we face in the real world. We decided to produce a very simple plan (above) because we knew it would be too difficult to explain something more complex to huge numbers of people given our resources. In that context its shortness is a major advantage.

by Chekov Wed Feb 26, 2003 19:41

The plan that GNAW published was the culmination of many months of debate about what exactly was the best way that people can have a direct impact on the use of Shannon by the USAF. There were two national meetings, but also loads of local ones where people discussed the issue.

It is worth noting that the people involved in drafting the plan took into account a huge number of variables, everything from publicity to possible violence from the cops and I think that this plan is a good example of how important decisions are best made through collective debate since the amount of things that were taken into account would not be capable of being considered by a single person. It is also worth noting that that people who put their time and energy into the plan include many of those in the country who have the most practical experience of direct action and what can go wrong. So rest assured, although nobody can guarantee everything, this plan is far from flippant or ill-considered.

by Doc Wed Feb 26, 2003 20:10

When Ireland play England in Landsdowne Rd, the majority of Irish cheered as the troublemaker were beaten to a pulp. Expect the same on saturday. The support of the Irish people that you claim just doesn't exist. To tear down the fence in shannon is a violent act and will probably be met with violence. And being supported by Sein Fein/IRA doesn't help. You have alienated many moderates. Saturday is going to be your organisations death Knell.

by Devi D Wed Feb 26, 2003 20:39 nail_hed at yahoo dot com

I dun no about the public in general being so behind the anti-war movement cuz loads of people have been turned off it by the recent news of airlines pulling out of shannon and the airport losing 9 million euro and the potential job-losses becuase of the other airlines 'seriously considering' moving out.

...mmm just sayin'

by Dannie McQ Thu Feb 27, 2003 00:17 onefukedupkid at hotmail dot com 0879884158

Does anybody know of a bus or any car with free room for me to get to Shannon from the Letterkenny area. If so please get in contact with me ASAP. Thanks.

by Yept Thu Feb 27, 2003 00:56

did you hear that the US have decided to stop using Shannon airport?

yeah, it's too close to Limerick

ahahaha!

by Joe Sheehan Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:20

I do not even begin to think that this is a flippant ill considered action, i am glad to hear that there is more planning gone in to it than i was aware of it does not change the fact though that I believe it will not happen.
The Gardai have been embarassed too many times out in Shannon in the recent past there is no way they will allow the proposed action happen. They will have more uniforms etc at the airport this time and be a lot more forceful/ aggresive. I would be suprised if the IAWM march is allowed to proceed to the airport, they will, I would imagine stop us all at the roundabout only allowing people through for flights etc.
I do think that it was a good decision to discuss ths in the open because we have to step up the opposition to this war. As only 4 Irish people, Eoin, Mary, Deidre and Damian, have so far taken arrestable action to oppose this war i do not think that there will be close to enough numbers to make this action work as well as it should.
We have to start to look at other venues and actions that will bring the general public with us and get the government to pay attention to what the people of ireland are thinking.
Call your local TD, phone, fax, mail and call to their clinics. picket outside their clinics. Picket outside the Dail.
And there are MANY more ideas these above ae the lightweight ideas.
Lets raise the bar but get the actions done and get the media attention.

by TIM Thu Feb 27, 2003 13:54

I notice a few people seem to be wrongly interpreting Joe's comments.

Joe works in Shannon and has a fairly good ear to the ground, so it's not smart to instantly dismiss that out of hand without contemplating it.
It's not a public split but a very healthy public debate going on here.

I'm no guru on NVDA, and I certainly don't oppose actions to get the death machines out of Shannon but I share Joe's concerns at this critical time and with good reason.

SHORT VERSION
Have you taken into account the mood of the Gardai and Aer Rianta on the ground? Or are you just making assumptions?
Do you think the establishment isn't hoping to see this movement crushed?
How sure are you that they won't baton people just because of RTS last year?
Have you seen the pre-emptive propoganda setting the scene for "thugs" to be dealt with 'firmly and effectively'.
I've heard rumblings from Gardai around here, and it's not the sound of batons being thrown away never to be used...
Are you hell-bent on the fence, or will you, if circumstances are adverse opt for a less extreme, but also effective sit down blockade?
Do you have legal support?
Are you so sure of the crowd dynamics?
--------------------------------------

Come on, we've all seen masked people at Shannon demos running at fences, without contingency plans, legal support, or even good INTEL so it's not stretching imagination to think it could happen again.
I'll just give my two-bits worth of advice and present it as nothing more than advice. (especially as I was unable to make it to the meetings in Dublin to argue it there.)
If you think I'm wrong then it's only my opinion, and at least I'm giving it to you now instead of afterwards.
I'm not trying to blow my own trumpet, or get into a battle of egos with anyone, but I do worry that there has been a lot of debate in Dublin, without much research onto what's happening on the ground in Shannon.
That's not good.
It's also not good to be blinkered about the gulf between theory and practice.
If people who want attack the fence are the dedicated people who have practiced it, and retained a lawyer, and are prepared to endure consequences, then that's fine for them.
If it's done haphazardly or if people are not 100% about being arrested or possibly batoned in the skull then they shouldn't rush the fence.
If your white and pink blocs are not sufficiently separated, don't bring any reprisals on the observers due to bad timing.
Cops, Soldiers and ordinary citizens, despite the broad distinctions and functions (Armed wing, fascist, forces of law and order, anarchists crusties, hippies, whatever) have this in common:-
when there's a lot of them, you will have the full spectrum of characters
from calm, cool, collected, focussed, to panicky, hot headed and liable to make mistakes.
smart ones, dumb ones, broad minded and petty ones.

Do not make iron-clad assumptions about the attitude of Gardai, APOs or Army in advance of the demo. If it turns out very different from what you assume then be sensible and flexible with your plans.

Again without advocating or dictating...
For a large crowd, things like BIG sit down blockades and lock-ons are the easiest to understand, explain, and pull off.
Ripping of fences and hammering planes is the other end of the scale and not the right place to start NVDA class 101 for the uninitiated.
Inside the airfield at Shannon is a very complex and dynamic environment, especially now with the Army and ARMED GARDAI (have you seen the ones at the airport with the Uzi's? ABBEYLARA anyone?)
The cops would have to consider that genuine terrorists could use the protest as a cover and anything mistaken for a firearm could result in an incident if it happens at the wrong moment or in front of the wrong person.

Any invasive action into the airfield requires one to first familiarise oneself with a lot of action-specific factors.
Spectacular actions are good for getting media attention but not a cosy situation for the beginner or those who haven't considered the consequences.

Anything elaborate requires discipline and planning. And in my own individual opinion there's not yet a great culture of that outside of some of the activists who've been around a while.
Guts and passion abound beyond a doubt, but cool heads, discipline and analytical skills are not quite common enough for anything more than a relatively small team.

We can make assumptions too about how the security might behave but that is not a subsitute for finding out what mood they are in.
There's a lot of shite floating around at the moment in the media about an upcoming violent clash.
We have
-an embarrassed Garda force getting heat over the repeated security breaches
- airport police who are not suited to this type of situation
-an army that is trained to protect facilities from attack but does not want to get embroiled in domestic (civilian) disputes
-and an embarrassed government, (W breathing down their neck and fleeing US troop carriers hitting the headlines).
It's not cut and dried how they will act.
You might assume they will behave in a predictable, tactically smart way - not allowing for hot-heads or morons to occupy key positions in the chain of command.

And without naming names, because they ARE reading this... (and because I actually do respect some of them as individuals)
There's politically embarrassed heads who would like to see this 'problem' go away and one or two Gardai may just be stubborn and angry enough to want to see a bit of aggro and arrests.
And that's just a personal thing.
It could also be a deliberate ploy (cynical machiavellian conspiracy theory).
It's a simple assumption that because of RTS they wouldn't dare raise a baton... the opposite may be truer.
If the cops can get in some 'agents provocatuers' or some activists provide the excuse, they can batter away "to legitimately protect the
airport, and travelling public"
and then say "see, this is why the Gardai have to respond firmly to anarchist troublemakers" - retro-active mitigation for the shameful behaviour at RTS (which the
brass are still mindful of).
sure, its' stupid and petty and short sighted but it makes sense to some with a certain slant and a compliant media.
Remember, we're talking about a Fianna Fail regime here, so don't assume too much logic or vision.

So consider all the factors before you decide what you do on the day, and keep your eyes open.

Whatever happens, if action makes members of the public "uncomfortable" then deal with that too.
Cosy slumber is arguably worse than opposition.
If it gets them thinking and talking, then engage them, and be ready to explain and justify your point of view, rather than simply doing damage limitation in the face of FF/PD/FG/Aer Rianta/Garda condemnation (which will also be used to tar people currently awaiting trial, who might end up facing serious time in prison).

The above notwithstanding, I will be there as an observer, and possibly with Food Not Bombs.
I hope we make a difference on the day.
We've seen a lot change in a short time and we really can achieve much more if we box clever on this.

See you on Saturday.

Tim

by Andrew Thu Feb 27, 2003 17:14

Tim with respect to those of you on the ground in Shannon we have discussed the issues you raise above in considerable depth. The plan takes some of them into account (for instance in saying we only intend to move a little beyond the fence and won't go near the runway). We have discussed how we will diffuse 'hotheads' if that problem arises. And don't forget that as you know many of us helped organise the September RTS, another occasion when beforehand everyone and their dog was predicting a riot.

If we seem intemperate it is because of the enormous pressure we are now under and the fact that some groups we might expect to be on our side are throwing all sort of nasty shit at us. (I don't mean you or Joe here, I mean PANA and IAWM). We will see on the day but I suspect they may already have succeed in sabotaging the action by simply scaring people away. And frankly seeing the way some of them are rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of us getting battered is making me physically sick.

Direct action is always unpopular with self-appointed leaders at the time it happens. One of the ironic things about this is that the same gang who a week back were throwing shit at CW5 and Mary Kelly are now holding them up as examples. I have little dougbt if Saturday works out then they will be claiming to have supported to all along on Monday and by this time next year will be claiming they organised it.

by Kieran - Irish Anti-War Movement Fri Feb 28, 2003 00:34

Grassroots have succeeded in dragging down the anti war movement as a whole to a new low!
This is exactly what we do not need.

This type of action only succeeds in dividing the movement as a whole and alienating the mainstream with the direct result of weakening the movement as a whole.

A few rotten apples spoil the lot! We will never have any progress for peace as long as misguided fools spoil it for everyone else.

by concerned anti war protester Fri Feb 28, 2003 01:47

To every person who is either considering or has planned to take part in unlawful acts at Saturday's anti war protest in Shannon: PLEASE DO NOT.
This type of activity is harmful to the anti war movement as a whole. It serves only to alienate public opinion and causes divisions among us. The strength and effectiveness of our movement has been damaged now with the decision by some protesters not to gather at Shannon. This is regretable.

To all impartial observers, please note: the intentions of certain protesters to engage in direct action and unlawful activity at Shannon on Saturday should not be seen as representing the majority who will be there to protest peacefully. I hope public opinion will not look unfavourably on Saturday's planned march because of the misguided and regretable actions of a small minority of people present.

by Peaceful Protestor Fri Feb 28, 2003 02:17

See the post above mine entitled "**URGENT APPEAL**"?

I'm guessing that if you've read this thread you've got a pretty good idea of who wants the March 1st 2pm Shannon Shopping Center protest to fail.

It's one of these types of person:

a. Pro-war, delighted to see Iraqis die. You've seen their other posts on the site.

b. Not really pro-war, but not willing to rip down a fence to stop it. After all a fence is worth a lot more than a dead child isn't it?

I'm none of the above. I'm anti-war and I'm not willing to personally take the risk of ripping down the fence and I don't even agree with it as a tactic.

But I'm certainly not going to engage in the divisive pandering to the worst sections of the media that the above post calls for. If anyone tries to associate me with something that I didn't do then I'll be blaming that person for lying about me and not the person that took the action.

It's quite clear that there will be two marches and quite clear who's doing what. I'm happy to let the anarchists and situationists go ahead and do what they're doing and I'm damned if I'm going to condemn them for it.

The only people that have an interest in the sort of malarkey above are people that are pro-war.

by yankee anarchist Fri Feb 28, 2003 05:27

Those of us who speak from "the belly of the beast" applaud your brave actions against Bush's coming war in Iraq. Though it doesn't always make international headlines, direct action against this war effort is an everyday occurance here in the United States. There have been literally hundreds of illegal actions taken across the country, and there are promises to step up the resistance when (when!) the United States government invades Iraq. We will bring the war home, and we hope others will join us and do the same in their respective countries.

We would like nothing more than to see "our" warplanes that are stationed at Shannon Airport sent home to the scrap-heap.

From protest to resistance...

Together we can win!

by Tim Fri Feb 28, 2003 21:24

Glad to hear that Andrew.
I know there's enough cool heads in Dublin to come up with a plan one way or another, I was just worried that some might have been carried away with the emotion of Feb 15th and neglected some of the potential problems like hot-headed heroes.

Like you said, I'm not trying to split the movement, open debate is important, but not dragging down people.
I think the open spats and demoralising can be avoided in future, in two important ways.

To whatever extent possible we have to educate people to the tradition /tactic of taking appropriate direct action when the powers-that-be ignore will not respond to the law or will of the people.
Whether it is a march, sit-in, strike or whatever.
More NVDA training and theory is also necessary, cos we know there are more campaigns to come.

I also think it is probably more wise to have the debate on either a mail list or else a THREADED comment board, so that the meejah don't just print off the wildest suggestions as being representative.

I also think that the adverse media (mostly deliberate and spoon-fed by Spin-Doctors) was designed to reduce the numbers for tomorrow.
I still hope it is well attended and a huge success. A lot has been achieved so far.
See you tomorrow.

Tim.

by Laughing my ass off Sat Mar 01, 2003 19:23

Ha Haaaa!!! Good direct action on sat!!!! yeah that went well. Nice to see you all had the balls to back up your comments! Bollox!

by Joe Thu Mar 06, 2003 13:50

We were very cler all along, we could only take down the fence if we had the numbers to do so. On the day we did not manage to do this but there was no violence despite the hysteria of this and other threads. However we did have a go (which is where most of the arrests came from). We demonstrated two very important things

1. A larger number of protesters would have succeeded
2. This direct action can be done in a non-violent manner

In short, if and when there is a next time we will succeed, in part because this time around the 'panic' cards were all played and have turned up as jokers rather then aces. They can't fool people in the same way again.