Dublin Mayday - wet, small and pretty miserable

by Nora Geraghty - Globalise Resistance Thu May 02, 2002 13:34

I'm getting really sick of this GR/SWP shit, as if there is no difference. Des Geraghty supports GR and helps us out when he can. If the SWP members of GR want to heckle (as they do) then please don't tar us all with the same brush. We're allowed to have diversity in our ranks. In a global movement it would be impossible not to, and if more people who represented other groups bothered to show up and join in, then it wouldn't look so one-sided.

by I need a Catheter - soaking legs Thu May 02, 2002 13:49

I'm getting sick of this argument coming up every few weeks. GR is an SWP front. The SWP make all the decisions that count. Of course GR has non-SWP members - it would be a shit front if it didn't. Their influence is limited to whatever it suits the SWP leadership to give them at any one moment. This has been gone through over and over again. The SWP operate through a series of fronts. They wheel out the ANL for stuff about racism. They wheel out GR for anti-capitalism. And so on and so on and so on and so on and so on.

On Des Geraghty (a relative?), why would any left wing organisation want support from a partnership bureaucrat?

by Anti-Capatalist - Globalise Resistance Thu May 02, 2002 13:50

Absolutely Nora!

And if anti-capatalists, left-wingers, anarchists, socialists, "labourites", humanitarians, environmentalists, trade unionists, peace activists, the religous, people who care etc. etc. etc., don't start coming together in some format, then this is the sort of "wet, small and pretty miserable" turnout we are going to have for events such as this.

Globalise Resistance is already up and running for this purpose.

But the main thing is that we all come together under some umbrealla format whether it be Globalise Resistance or some other arrangement, to take on the corrupt system of capitalism that is destroying the lives of the vast majority of this planet and the very planet itself.

by Komsomol Thu May 02, 2002 16:08 komsomol at swirve dot com

Well up here in donegal there wasnt much if at all done for may day. In Letterkenny where i live, last year there was a fair sized protest outside Mc Donalds followed by grafiti all over the town which consisted of anarchist and anti-capitalist slogans (big thing for letterkenny!), This year there was no protest, just a meeting arranged by the Socialist Party in a local pub folowed by Musical Entertainment, i went to it but didn't see anything closely resembling the purpose of celebrating MayDay!, so overall its been a useless MayDay for me im afraid!

by jamie - swp Thu May 02, 2002 16:10

indymedia comment boards are just turning into anti-swp propaganda pages!sure the swp are at the front of gr activity and if they were not involved in so many fronts very little would happen!speaking from a galway perspective Gr activities are almost always initiated by SWP and that isnt a bad thing!if we didnt do it nobody else would.like us or not we get a lot of shit done!

by MG Thu May 02, 2002 16:26

It should be made clear that Geraghty was heckled about Mick O Reilly. It is well known that Geraghty colluded with FF, etc. to get Mick shafted. So people shouted 'Support Mick O Reilly', etc. There was great applause when the speaker from the Bin Charges campaign offered solidarity to Mick and Eugene on being sacked.
In fact Mick should have been the main speaker on the platform.
I have nothing to do with GR or SWP and people apart form them were shouting at Geraghty. And it was great that he lost the rag, seeing as he never has to justify his actions to anyone outside of his bosses in government and big business.
I agree about the march being the most miserable in recent history though. If it wasn't for the French anti-le Pen group it would have been about 150 people. Dire.

by anarchist Thu May 02, 2002 16:40

wet, small and pretty miserable-just like andrew and the wsm

by I'm not convinced Thu May 02, 2002 17:00

To whom is it known that Geraghty colluded with FF etc? Judging from his political history it sounds rather unlikely to me. As far as I'm aware Geraghty made representations to the ATGWU on Mick O'Reilys behalf, but as he is not in charge of that union he can hardly be blamed for its leaderships descisions, can he? Perhaps we should ask Mick O'Reily himself to comment.

by bemused Thu May 02, 2002 18:07

"small and pathtic, just like andrew and the WSM"

to which massive anarchist movement does "anarchist" belong?

by not a scab Thu May 02, 2002 18:46

Check out the link

quote:

'We hear of one union boss who has for some months been asking questions along the lines of, "Who will rid me of this tempestuous union official?"

who do you reckon?

by Siptu worker Thu May 02, 2002 21:01 artane12 at hotmail dot com

Since when did the SWP believe everything that's in the O'Reilly rag also known as the Sunday Independent?

Put it this way. If that dumb right wing fool reported that protesters in Dublin were just mindless idiots with no political agenda and that GR had been infiltrated by criminal gangs who planned to steal cash from Dublin businesses during demonstrations, would you take it at face value? I don't think so. So why do the so-called left start taking the word of a right wing paper? Sure Gerahty is loved by the Indo. They're a real pro-trade union crowd in there.

What a shameful day for the SWP.

by Brian Cahill Thu May 02, 2002 21:11

I don't claim to know what role (if any) Geraghty played in the removal of Mick O'Reilly.

We do know that Geraghty is a pro-"partnership" bureaucrat. Isn't that more than enough reason to want rid of him?

by An Irish Worker Fri May 03, 2002 02:03

What's this shite about a social-partnership bureaucrat? The social partnership is one of the great workers victories of our time! Des Geraghty is the only person in the history of the Irish labour movement to be elected president outright on the first count. The people have spoken! Why do the SWP have such a problem with that? Geraghty is one of the leading anti-capitalists of our time and he has done far more on a practical level than any Socialist Worker I have ever heard of. His determination in the face of all odds has been an inspiration to us all. Any true socialist would stand four-square behind him. Keep it up Des!

by Brian Cahill - Socialist Party Fri May 03, 2002 03:27

So called "partnership" is actually one of the biggest defeats suffered by Irish workers for some time. What "partnership" actually means is wage control.

Geraghty and his bureaucrat mates have more in common with the politicians and the bosses than they do with the workers. What's Geraghty's salary again?

As for "true socialists", they should be aware that there can be no real "partnership" between the bosses and the workers. Exploiters and the exploited, remember?

Back when Geraghty was in the old Worker's Party he would have told you that himself. Now that he is on 100,000 a year or whatever his salary is and is a nice comfortable member of Quinn's Labour Party he takes a different attitude. What a surprise. Remind me what Quinn's brother does, why don't you?

by Daithi Fri May 03, 2002 11:59

I don't think I've ever heard anything so childish re: Quinn. Is he his brother's keeper? Brian, if a relative of yours was a notorious criminal and child abuser, would this be any reflection on your integrity? Not at all.

Criticise Ruairi Quinn all you like, but at least take it out of the playground level.

On the Mayday rally itself, I was delighted to see the GR crowd there, and I think that they really added some energy to the march that was otherwise very absent. Having the anti-Le Pen march first was also a fantastic idea. But the heckling of Geraghty was, once again, hardly an example of how to advance your arguments. I don't see GR members travelling around the country to heckle and disrupt every speaker from Fianna Fail, do I? Yet, on May Day, at a rally organised by unions, we're turning in on ourselves.

There are of course questions to be answered re: Mick O'Reilly, and the broader question of union leaders being paid high salaries. But why not do it in a responsible way? All that was proven on Wednesday night was (apart from the rain messing things up again) that if Des Geraghty is a bigger enemy than Mary Harney, then it's no wonder that the right wing will continue to dominate the agenda in Ireland.

by Andrew Fri May 03, 2002 12:34

Nora

I use SWP/GR because there is such a high crossover of people between the two organisations and GR is so obviously dominated by the SWP. As on the May Day march this often means it's quite hard to tell when something is being done by GR or by the SWP or both. I'm aware there are some other individuals involved in GR

Apt

Seeing as Apt seems to be size fixated they are rather obviously from one of the trot groups (or Finna Fail) and not as they claim an anarchist. After all it's not like the WSM pretend to be big!

by Nora Geraghty - Globalise Resistance Fri May 03, 2002 15:36

I'm glad to see so many intelligent comments on this comments page, it revives my faith in Irish people.
Andrew- It is true that GR is often hard to distinguish from SWP. A lot of GR people are becoming increasingly unhappy about this, and after the Mayday incident we will be calling a meeting next week to discuss the future of GR. Those of us who are unhappy about the situation have decided to attempt to talk it through rather than having another split movement in Ireland. GR is global, it does not just exist here, and of course with a movement of such proportions it will be impossible to agree on everything. My point is that if you continue to portray it as an SWP front then that is what it will become, such is the power of the media.
This is a new movement and we need people from all walks to participate. It would be nice if you could help us to encourage this end.

by Andrew Fri May 03, 2002 16:05

Hi Nora,

in fact I was involved in GR initally as I was one of the people involved in setting up the earlier campaihns around N30 Seattle and S26 Prague. Like you I also hoped that GR could escape its SWP origins and I also argued with other people that it was only through being involved that this could happen.

By July last year I had more or less given up any hope of achieving this and published an article on this at the time, see
http://struggle.ws/ws/2001/65/global.html

by Brian Cahill Fri May 03, 2002 16:53

You are right Daithi. It isn't Ruairi Quinn's fault that his brother is the chair of AIB. It is his fault that he is the leader of a capitalist, pro business party and that he was finance minister in a right wing. There are quite enough reasons to have contempt for the man without bringing his plutocrat brother into it.

On Mayday, I actually agree that those who were heckling Geraghty were probably tacticaly mistaken. On the other hand I do think that, his reactionary "partnership" politics aside,he has some fucking cheek coming to address the Mayday march after deliberately doing fuck all to build it.

I remember last years march, which was small but still bigger than this years one. Like this one it was made up almost entirely of the far left. We got to the end and we got to listen to some bureacrats and liberals telling us to be nice to everybody until I left while a drunk bureaucrat doing a Jim Larkin impression was speaking.

Afterwards the Socialist Party suggested that if the trade's councul were going to make an embarassing mess of Mayday every year that the left should get together and take it over. I still think that's a good idea. May Day is too important to have the trades council kill it off.

by Marianne Sat May 04, 2002 00:14

Hey Nora
How's things? There was already a break away when Grassroots gathering (which is great by the way, you should check it out) was formed, there's no point in splitting the movement even further. I dont really trust the SWP though and it could turn out like the English Globalise Resistance. But i think you're right, if more peope join in then it would be more broadly based. You just need to make sure all the decision making is collective.

by Nora Geraghty Sat May 04, 2002 00:20 grnora at eircom dot net

Hello Andrew, I read your article with interest, you have my attention. What do you suggest we do next? Please e-mail me if you are planning any meetings to discuss these ideas. Diversity makes life interesting, which is of course, one of the reasons I would like to be able to work alongside SWP. I realise it may not be possible, but I'm not ready to give up yet.
Just to answer B. Cahills question (although I'm not sure I should qualify it with an answer) Des Geraghty earns aprox. 68,000 per annum (set rate, if he were paid overtime rates he would earn a lot more as he works a good 80 hour week) it used to be more, but he and a few others thought the system was unfair so they overhauled it. He was the first President to benefit from the wage decrease. As to the notion that he would once have agreed that there are only exploiters and exploited, and no possibility of compromise, I have known him all my life, and I have never heard him say anything so moronic.

by NG - GR Sat May 04, 2002 12:51

Apologies, that estimate is based on the circa 60,000 it was after they revised the wage system (the members approved the change) translate into Euros and add 4 years normal wage increase.

by KG Sat May 04, 2002 14:07

I was a bit suprised to learn that the SWP/GR were heckling Des Geraghty at the May Day protests.IN the past SWP through its front organsiation the Anti Nazi League have invited him to speak on their platform against racism without making any criticism that he has failed to mobilize his membership against state racism. Also I recall at the time of the solidarity protests with the anticapitalist demonstations in Prague they invited him to speak. He was of course wedded to social partnership at this stage just as much as he is now so he seemed somewhat obscene to invite him to speak. Now they are resorting to juvenile methods in attacking him. It reminds of the quote by Trotsky of ''the fool he sings funeral hyms at weddings and wedding songs at funerals''.

by Myles Sat May 04, 2002 14:15

SWP/Globalise Resistacne ringleaders must know how much damage their methods cause - divisions in the movement, a lot of young people becoming disillusioned and turning away from activism. It's very difficult to believe that it's just stupidity. Who is behind the SWP? What's their real agenda?

by Phuq Hedd Sat May 04, 2002 17:43

Hey Nora, how much is a "normal" wage increase? Is it an average wage change that takes into account the zero earnings of all the people that have lost their jobs under "partnership"? Is it a "normal" increase for bureaucrats or for everyone?

Finally, Nora, how are YOU proposing to avoid the domination of GR by the SWP?

by Paul Kinsella - ATGWU Sat May 04, 2002 20:04 paulkinsella53 at yahoo dot com 53 Lorcan Grove, Santry, Dublin 9, Eire 087 - 9748511

People seem to be forgetting that that big fat pig Geraghty compared those who were shouting at him to Le Pen and the Nazis. Le Pen and the Nazis! When that big fat buffoon said that one person who I know very well personally went up to the stage and told Geraghty to his face that he had "a f**king cheek to compare those who were shouting at him to Le Pen and the Nazis." Geraghty went white at this stage and then proceeded to further insult us throughout the rest of his rambling speech. BTW The person who remonstrated with Geraghty is not a member of any political party, although his does have very strong sympathies for the Socialist Party and he was formerly an active member of Militant Labour for many years. For those who are moaning about those of us who were heckling Geraghty there is such a thing as free speech. It was great to see that that bastard Geraghty was rattled last Wednesday and it certainly made up for the literally damp squib of a March last Wednesday (It certainly made my evening for me!). As several people have said here if it weren't for the Anti Le Pen Protest beforehand God only knows have even more terrible of a damp squib fiasco last Wednesday's May Day shambles of a March would have been!

by Nora Geraghty - GR Sun May 05, 2002 12:22

Ah Paul your poetry is so thought-provoking, your methphor is deriven from the animal kngdom in the style of the ancient Chinese philosophers, and your argument so broad-minded and well thought through. Clearly you have taken all points of view into account. A great victory for the tedious little gnats of the imaginary revolution.

by Daithi Sun May 05, 2002 13:17

Let me see .. "big fat pig" .. "big fat buffoon" .. "that bastard Geraghty".

Yep, this is left-wing intellectual discourse at its very best.

Paul - no-one's challenging your or anyone else's right to free speech. Please point out where this is implied. What I, and many others from different backgrounds have done on this site, is ask those who disrupted the May Day events by heckling a trade unionist. When you, and your friend who you know very well personally, start travelling to IBEC and Progressive Democrat events and heckle and challenge the speakers there - then your bona fides will be beyond doubt. Until then, however, your personal comments on Des Geraghty just reinforce the point that we all have a lot to be ashamed of from last Wednesday. People will go and vote for FF/FG next week and many will do so because the left cannot get its own act together.

We've had Brian Cahill having a go at Ruairi Quinn for having a rich brother and Paul giving out about "fat" Geraghty, who has (as pointed out here) been one of the trade unionists more supportive to anti-globalisation protests. And as an earlier writer pointed out, a lot of so-called left wingers are going on the basis of Sunday Independent reporting.

But all that doesn't matter, because the revolution is coming. There may be only ten left wingers left after the internal fights finish, but that's enough, surely?

by Brian Cahill Sun May 05, 2002 14:48

Let's make something clear, Daithi. Socialists having a go at Ruairi Quinn is not a sign of "disunity" on the left.

Quinn is not on the left. In any way, shape or form.

He leads a right wing, pro-business party. He was a right wing Finance minister in a right wing government. His greatest ambition is to be a "revolving" Taoiseach in another right wing government. He is licking his lips at the prospect of getting into government again with Fianna Fail or Fine Gael.

I'm willing to listen to and work with anyone on the left, be they socialist, green or whatever. I am not willing to pretend, though, that any right wing politician whether from Labour, Fianna Fail or the Progressive Democrats is somehow on our side in any way.

Quinn and his ilk have chosen their side: the side of business. It is not "disunity" to point that out.

As for Geraghty, the partnership \ wage-control bureaucrat, I find it hilarious to see him "defended" with the claim that he "only" pockets £68,000 of his members money a year. The poor dear, looks like any Swiss skiing holidays will have to wait.

That kind of money puts him in the top couple of percent of income earners nationally - up there with the Ministers, the management consultants, the judges and the rest of our rulers. He has more economically and socially in common with those people than he has with the people he supposedly represents.

All trade union officials should be elected and they should all recieve the average wage of the members they represent.

Socialist Party TDs live on the average wage of a skilled worker as did Militant MPs in Britain and Scottish Socialist Party MSPs. When members of the Socialist Party, including the new President of the PCS union in Britain, are elected to positions in trade unions they also only live on the average wage of a skilled worker.

That position isn't about trying to be Mother Theresa. It's about making sure that worker's representatives don't have fundamentally conflicting economic and social interests to the people they supposedly represent.

A workers representative on a workers wage!

Am I going to fast for all the Labour supporters on indymedia?

by C. Mon May 06, 2002 01:09

Greetings and solidarity to yourself and all the guys from the scheme workers days.

(Disclaimer: I have a personal connection in this case) - If anybody wants to read the Mick O'Reilly story you don't need to read the Independent. A google search for 'mick o'reilly suspension atgwu' gave me links from An Phoblacht, Marxism Today, various socialist parties / journals and ireland.com.

Let's argue here buts lets all turn out and reclaim the streets tomorrow.

by Paul Kinsella - ATGWU Mon May 06, 2002 01:25 paulkinsella53 at yahoo dot com 53 Lorcan Grove, Santry, Dublin 9, Eire 087 - 9748511

This has turned into a very good and lively debate, but I think that we've lost the focus of what the original debate was all about and that was the original posting from Andrew pointing out that the turnout for this year's May Day Demo in Dublin was really insulting and disgraceful. And I for one know who to blame for the rapidly decreasing Dublin May Day turnouts every year. Yes the Trade Union bureaucrats such as that Geraghty and Ben Kearney and Cassells and Flynn amongst the rest of those rogues and gangsters who are wasters and parasites just living off the Subs that we the ordinary members contribute. For example did you know that after the May Day fiasco last Wednesday that Geraghty and Sam Nolan and the rest of those boring old farts and has-beens went to Barney's Pub and had free drinks all night? And guess who paid for all this, which rivalled the worst excesses of a fat cats capitalist pigs ball? Yes! You guessed right. It was us the ordinary grassroots, rank and file members who paid for this bloated excess out of our hard earned Union Subs. I would like to know what the Geraghty sell-out rent a mob such as Nora Geraghty (Must be related to him) and Daithi (With the 2 i's, it must have the 2 i's or else!) think of all this? Do you agree with this? Do you agree that these Union bureaucrats should be paid such exorbitant, bloated salaries? Do you think that this is right? As for this bullshit that Geraghty is somehow a great supporter of the Anti capitalist globalisation movement please pass me the sick bucket! Geraghty a great supporter of the Anti capitalist globalisation movement me arse! I haven't seen Geraghty or any of the other prominent SIPTU officals with the very notable exception of Caroline Duggan from Waterford either give messages of support to or better still attend any of the various meetings planning Anti capitalist Protests over the last year or so at any rate since I first became seriously involved in the Anti capitalist Movement. Mick O'Reilly was planning to send a large Amalgamated Transport and General Workers Union (ATGWU) Trade Union contingent to the Genoa Protests last July and Mick was planning to personally participate in the Genoa Protests before his and Eugene McClone's disgraceful suspension last June and ultimate dismissal last week. I didn't see Geraghty or any of the other luminaries in the Irish Trade Union bureaucracy present on any of the Genoa Demos. Speaking of Mick O'Reilly's dismissal, do you in your warped sense of thinking think that Mick's sacking by his British based superiors in London was the best thing that ever happened? Come to think it will some brain-dead moron come on this comment board and praise and gloat about the sacking of Mick O'Reilly? It'll be interesting to see what retarded 'logic' that you try to use to 'justify' this reprehensible firing of Mick and Eugene, two very popular and well liked and well respected people within the grassroot rank and file ATGWU. Talking of Protests when Mick O'Reilly and his great predecessor the great Comrade Brother Matt Merrigan RIP were in charge the Main ATGWU Banner was always present at every Progressive Demo, certainly in Dublin no matter how small the Demo was or how unpopular the cause was you always saw at least one if not more ATGWU Banners present on the Demo and Mick and the late great Matt Merrigan RIP always made sure that there was a sizeable ATGWU contingent present on the Demo. It's a pity that the same can't be said of SIPTU and the other Trade Unions such as IMPACT. Here are some other questions that I'd like to ask of the pro Geraghty/pro so-called 'partnership' rent a mob such as Nora Geraghty and Daithi. Was this the same Des Geraghty that refused to act on the mandate of his his Union's conference in Killarney 2 years ago where the SIPTU Annual Delegate Conference (ADC) Democratically passed a motion calling on SIPTU to organise a One Day National Work Stoppage and National Demonstration to demand the jailing of corrupt politicans and businesspeople. And Geraghty's 'excuse'? If SIPTU did organise a One Day National Work Stoppage and National Demonstration to demand the jailing of corrupt politicans and businesspeople it would be in breach of his beloved 'partnership' so he Geraghty personally vetoed the Democratically expressed wishes of his own his ADC in order to save his beloved 'partnership'! Have you'se (the pro Geraghty/pro so-called 'partnership' rent a mob) any answer or justification for Geraghty's disgraceful actions in this case? If Geraghty is as you falsely claim is such a good Anti capitalist then why are so many of his members so unhappy with his leadership and his policies? And why have some members of SIPTU taken the ultimate step and left SIPTU, the best example of which was the breakaway Irish Locomotive Drivers Association (ILDA) Trade Union now merged into our Union the ATGWU, and also more recently why have some members of SIPTU left SIPTU to join the newly formed Independent Workers Union (IWU)? As regards Protesting outside the likes of IBEC and the Regressive 'Democrats' some of have already done this in the past. For example when that Harney one started her sledgehammer attack on the FAS Community Enterprise (C/E) Schemes members of the Scheme Workers Alliance (SWA) and others protested outside Harney's and IBEC's office's and outside the Dail. I should remind you that those people's Conference's are very heavily guarded by hired security people (Thugs in blue uniforms) and hired goons (More thugs) and armed Special Branch and other Garda units (Yet more thugs and this time baton wielding thugs many of them again wearing blue uniforms) who will think nothing of doing serious and permanent physical damage to you if you try to Invade or even Picket their Conference's. Finally going back to Andrew's excellent report that kicked this very good and lively debate off there's just one thing that I'd like to rebutt Andrew and that's where you said that "The only real point of interest was the rally at the end when Des Geraghty who was speaking lost his temper with heckling from GR/SWP." Certainly it's very true that Geraghty was heckled at by people from the SWP and also from GR but many others who had no connections with either of these two groups also heckled Geraghty. For example 2 good Trade Union friends of mine, both of whom have no time at all for the SWP and who are also neither of them members of GR also shouted and heckled at Geraghty, as well as my other friend who directly confronted Geraghty at the front of the stage. It's also worth pointing out that the first heckling at Geraghty came from a member of Residents Againgst Racism (RAR) who is also deeply hostile to the SWP and who again is also not a member of GR either. Funny isn't it that the minute that any of us try any form of Direct Action no matter how mild it is that we're considered dangerous criminals by others who call themselves Left Wing! Sorry for the length of this but some of the lies that have been told on this issue needed to be confronted head on.

by Paul Kinsella - ATGWU Mon May 06, 2002 01:33 paulkinsella53 at yahoo dot com 53 Lorcan Grove, Santry, Dublin 9, Eire 087 - 9748511

Thanks for the nice comments and the message of solidarity 'C'. As you say let's kick some ass today on the Reclaim The Streets Events in Dublin. Also Brian Cahill I agree with everything you said in your last posting (2 above my last one) here on May Day. Anyway better go it's 1:30AM exactly and I need to get some sleep so I'll be around for the Reclaim The Streets. See ya all there!