Belfast anti war report

by wise up Mon Feb 10, 2003 10:09

Fact SY did comment.Fact YAW in Belfast is two people one in his thirties which are full time SP. Fact YAW is the two or three SY under a different name. If N.ireland is the most active part of your organisation then i would not want to see what it is like in Dublin. If SP in Northern Ireland want to lie about there figures or activity to their members in the south then thats their decision {everyone here divides what the say by three or four then you will get correct figure]. Nobody here wants to work with them because of their secterian attitude and more importantly very few do. If they want a debate on indymedia thats fine as it will be told as it is if not then just get on with your work on your own.

by Irony is dead Sat Feb 08, 2003 22:35

Dublin and Cork are a fair distance away.
Allegiance is futile - read what Commie has to say.
The name doesn't matter, its the result that does.
On Feb 15 in Belfast we will see the biggest anti-war march ever in Belfast. There is room for everyone big or small. We have pulled ICTU into it, school students are debating & organising and local groups are preparing. Thats the news. Stop moaning about names - you could have organised half a dozen people to march with one third the effort.

by Allegiance is futile Sat Feb 08, 2003 20:25

comrades,
In all fairness, this issue once again raises the fundamental problem of indymedia. No one knows who's who. not one member of socialist youth commented on this issue yet somehow everyone has jumped down our throats by assuming that SY has a problem with SSAW. Some one posted up, quite correctly that the SWP are taking up this issue because they have seen how YAW has taken off in dublin and cork. YAW independently mobilised a layer of school students to the last anti war demo in Dublin only to find that the SWP had "launched" SSAW.
surely everyone here would judge a campaign not on its name but on its content, both numerically and politically. the issue is not that the SWP are using a name once used by SY - thats neither here nor there, the point is there is already a campaign for school students to get active - YAW
everyone knows that SY in the north is not two people - it has a much bigger membership than that. In fact, the north has seen some of the biggest successes for SY north and south. Cop on lads you've launched SSAW, fair play to yous, but is there much need for this petty point scoring

by Almost a socialist Sat Feb 08, 2003 15:28

Just to let people know about the meeting Davy Carlin said about. The school students against war meeting [I hope I won't get sued for calling it that] will be a debate involving six catholic and protestant schools. Barbara Muldoon from the Belfast Anti War Movement and yes the SWP will be debating a pro war Speaker who is the leader of one of N.Irelands political and Stormont parties. This was set up by SSAW and we will have at least three hundred school students there.

by I Agree Sat Feb 08, 2003 14:05

'Activities should be taken at face value'. yes they should. Fact; the SP 'youth against war' called a public meeting of their youth campaign the other night in belfast. Seven members of SSAW from catholic and protestant schools went along to ask them to get invoved with us. YAW was two full time SP members in the room,one in his thirties. They then said we should release joint statements etc. they didn't find anything wrong with the fact that YAW had no youth and that their campaign was two fulltimers from the SP. We thought they may have had even a couple of youth members this just makes them look stupid. I agree everybody should be involved against the war but don't pretend to be something you are not We all have found out ourselves in belfast it is just a name so there is no point in arguing about getting them involved as there is noboby to involve. you can check this out with the sp in belfast it is the truth and should 'be taken at face value'. Everyone thinks that this shit by the sp shows where they are going. I hope everyone even small groups like the sp can try and work against the war. Even if they want to do it alone with one or two people and not in a broad movement at least they are doing something. when I first met the swp they talked politics to me about the war and other things. when I met the sp all they wanted to do was to talk about the swp. they have did the same to everyboby i know. people know The swp are the people behind the anti war stuff and everybody works with them. the sp secterianism has backfired as no-one even wants to talk to them in belfast let alone work with them. Although the sp are only a few people here I think they should wise up so does everybody else . I agree they are like the sparts as i met them once in dublin and all they wanted to do was talk about the swp as well.

by iosaf Sat Feb 08, 2003 12:20

great thing about all the movements best names is that they are not copyrighted.
And those that are subject to copyright have not been subject to legal action yet.
Nunca Mas, Greenpeace, School students against War, Friends of the Earth, Reclaim the Streets!, Yomango, disobedienti, Socialism, Communism YaBasta! none of these as of yet have been subject to the courts.
Greenpeace almost got there. but finally the "public perception" thing won out. The public only perceive one "Greenpeace", though there be a few, only one sends leaflets.

I think you are right this sort of stuff is contemptous.

by Feel I must reply Sat Feb 08, 2003 11:54

Well done ssaw the sp up here would be like the sparts in dublin not only numbers but how people are more and more seeing them.This argument of you have took our name shows how far they have sunk into insignifigance. keep up the good work ssaw I was young once.

by No friends left Sat Feb 08, 2003 11:42

Headlines. The more irrelevant you are the more irrelevant you try to become to every one else.

Socialist party patents school students against war. It was our baby and now it has been made to work we want it back. A quite unknown socialist group in N.Ireland are to challenge the young anti war group school students against the war in the high court for using this name. We in capital press fully support them in standing up to take on these young anti war law breakers. Side by side we will make sure justice is done and this name goes back to its rightful owners while those young law breakers should be put in jail and the key thrown away. This the socialist party believes will help the war effort sorry anti war effort and this is to be their main focus around this war in the months ahead

by john - Irish Socialist Network Sat Feb 08, 2003 11:13

As soon as I win the Lotto I am going to copyright the word "socialism", so no one can use it but me.

by Barbara Muldoon - swp Fri Feb 07, 2003 21:08 barbara_muldoon at yahoo dot com

The name "school students against war" belongs to nobody. It is not a trade mark or a patent. It is a statement of intent and indeed a statement of fact. These people intended to, and have, built a serious group amongst school students who are opposed to this war. Groups calling themselves the exact same name exist in America, Berlin, Australia and elsewhere. The same name existed in the US against the Vietnam war and exists there now against this one. This is no more than a cynical opportunity to continue the same crap that obsesses a few dilettantes on IMC.

The efforts, openess and enthusiasm of the people involved in this group adds so much to the Anti-War Movement in Belfast. As did the Denis Halliday meeting on Thursday, as will the peace party on Saturday, as do the vigils outside Tescos, the many meetings, the March from Derry to Belfast, as does every individual and group that has contributed to building the 15th February. To bog down a report on what is going on in Belfast with such useless rubbish - that doesn't contribute one inch to the hard work that needs to be and will be done by EVERYONE INVOLVED - is beneath contempt.

by lets build Fri Feb 07, 2003 18:26

'Compete with YAW' in belfast.{do you know how ridiculous that reads to people in the north giving the balance of forces in respective groups} 'SWP front', 'people will laugh at name', come on you can do better than that, give us a political argument. In the meantime anyone wishing to get involved in anti war activity contact SSAW or YAW or any other group however big or small that is against this war.

by It's just like Face/Off Fri Feb 07, 2003 17:57

I hold no brief for the Socialist Party or their anti-war activities though I've learned the hard way that nothing the SWP says about any left wing group or their activities should be taken at face value. I just find it hilarious that the SWP are trailing forlornly after them. It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

I noticed this around the time of the last elections in Dublin, when the SWP did their level best to pass themselves off as Socialist Party candidates. Then I saw them try to get "Revolutionary Youth" going and crash and burn. Now we have the sorry sight of them "borrowing" the name of an old campaign started by Socialist Youth to try and compete with Youth Against the War.

Now I think that anti-war committees in schools are a good thing, no matter who starts them. It is a fact that Youth Against the War exists in a significant number of schools around the island particularly in Dublin and Cork. That is a good thing. If "School Students Against the War II: This Time It's The SWP" actually has something going in Belfast then that too is a good thing... although some people are still going to laugh that the SWP couldn't even come up with their own name for their front.

by Them young dogs learning new tricks Fri Feb 07, 2003 17:23

Everything the Socialist party do SWP copy. I agree. SP in belfast launched Yaw with now two people on a stall the swp 'copied' with SSAW and their fifty youth at a meeting with another one planned with hundreds. The SP called an anti war rally recently outside belfast city hall with nine people holding placards. The SWp in belfast 'copied' and marched through belfast with nearly 200. The Sp called a recent belfast public meeting about war with ten people in the room the swp 'copied' with meetings all around belfast with hundreds of people. them swp copy cats. your right it is embarrassing

by It's just like Face/Off Fri Feb 07, 2003 16:52

Looking at the SWP must be like looking in a cracked mirror for the Socialist Party at the moment. Everything the Socialist Party are associated with the SWP are trying to copy.

Socialist Youth takes off so the SWP try relaunching the long dead "Revolutionary Youth". RY seems to have disappeared again fairly sharpish.

Socialist Youth launch School Students Against the War during the Afghanistan war and then launch Youth Against the War. So the SWP tries launching its own School Students Against the War (or should that be "School Students Against the War II - This Time It's the SWP").

So what are the differences, apart from the fact that YAW exists in a fair few places around the country and SSAW doesn't? Or that YAW openly says it was founded by Socialist Youth while SSAW is a bit shy (read: dishonest) about telling people that the SWP are behind it? Frankly, this kind of shit is just embarrassing.

by hello? Fri Feb 07, 2003 16:02

What work? What schools? SY in belfast is two people on a stall, YAW is the same two people on the same stall under a different name. SSAW is already preparing for meetings with hundreds of students. I am in SSAW and not a member of SWP as many are not in the group if I {not swp} am jumping on anything it is into a well organised growing anti war youth group with members in schools catholic and protestant all over belfast who have come together to oppose war.We do our own stuff and organise our own activity with no party telling us what to do The only reason that I knew that YAW exsisted is that there two members in belfast came to the start of SSAW. They put there arguments they lost there arguments with the fifty other people in the room that is democray. We want and are building a big group in many schools with more joining all the time. Why is it if i am right what a member of the socialist party told me just recently that YAW has been going months that I only see two people and the SSAW is going just a few weeks and has so many members and supporters. I know we have had some help and suggestions from the swp at the start on how to organise and to build but the two YAW will know that all the actions and organisation and decisions is in the youths hands.

by Commie - Socialist Youth Fri Feb 07, 2003 15:43

Im currently looking at our leaflet published during the Afghan war.

The orginal initiative was taken by socialist youth to setup the movement, at the time I was a school student and involved in building the SSAW.

The SWP clearly saw that they may be able to capitalise on the work which we did in mobilising school students and as written above are jumping on the bandwagon.

but just to let folks know SSAW is no longer Socialist Youth (the name has been lifted).

To be a member of youth against war you DONT have to be a socialist. Theres plenty of people in it that aren't YAW is successfully trying mobilise schools students for the Feb. 15th demo. Already we have branches in several secondary schools in Ireland, North and South.

by a school student against war Fri Feb 07, 2003 14:51

A few points,
1) any young people, specifically schools students, that are opposed to war are welcome to join youth against war. Its not a 'socialists only' group.

2) As far as I know, SSAW was what SY called the group during the Afghan war. You are using an SY rejected name.

3) The SWP have obvioulsy seen the work SY has been doing in schools and has decided to jump on the bandwagon.

by Jim Fri Feb 07, 2003 14:08

As the Shinners have been very vocal and active in the South from what I hear.
Will our Mayor come out of City Hall to greet his fellow citizens on February 15th?

by Irony is dead Fri Feb 07, 2003 13:00

Danny - theres been no organisation in belfast aimed at school students. The SP have set up YAW in Belfast - but it appears you have to be a socialist to join. SSAW was set up as an initiative by members of the AWM and has got a great response. The point is however to build the maximum forces against the war.

by Ray - wearing my editing hat Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:30

ssaw
by chris - ssaw Fri, Feb 7 2003, 11:28am
Different name. Maybe in the south youth against war campaigns exist but not really seen in belfast.In School students against war we want to be a huge anti war student organisation with many schools and students involved and it is moving that way.

add your comments

by iosaf Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:30

are Eamonn McCanns words recorded on your website?
i would like to know what he said. I remember him speaking against Eamon Dunphy. followed by Paul Hill v. Shane Ross. Can you imagine it? it went on and on. [that lot] v. [that lot]
and sure yes even I got a go. But Nell Mc Cafferty held her silence. That has rattled around my head for more than a decade. That wise public silence above a constant stream of jibes and mutterings. (I was sitting in the row in front of her and heard it all).
SWM has a new printer in West Belfast. For Feb 15, you will be maybe already have printed all your agit-prop. Why not allow other nonSWimmie groups use the printer?
:-)

by Danny - None Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:05

Wasn't that orginally a Socialist Youth campaign which used the same name? How low can the SWP go?