A perfect description of Indymedia.ie and Mary Kelly-supporting twats.
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news report
Sunday February 02, 2003 15:41
by Jimmy
A very good descripion of Indymedia.ie.
The peace protesters at Shannon were previously perceived as fluffy, young and idealistic. Not any more, writes Brendan O'Connor
NOT only is Mary Kelly well known in Ireland, the "peace activist" is well-regarded internationally too. In fact, on Friday night, as she languished in prison for a crime she certainly committed, Mary Kelly was being feted at a $75-dollar-a-head dinner in New York.
The Annual Michael Flannery Testimonial Awards and Dinner is a fundraiser for the National Irish Freedom Committee (NIFC), "The Voice of the Republican Movement in America". The NIFC is a hardline anti-Agreement group founded in 1987 because of the perceived "betrayal-in-the-making of traditional republican principles and values by the leadership of Provisional Sinn Fein in Ireland". The NIFC is involved in fundraising for political prisoners through its "Cabhair" offshoot. Mary Kelly is this year's recipient of said organisation's Michael Flannery Award.
Speaking on an associated New York radio show, Radio Free Eireann, last week Kelly said she would be unable to attend the bash to collect The Michael Flannery Award because she was too busy with the peace camp at Shannon. However, she has defended her association with Radio Free Eireann and the NIFC, saying in a web discussion that she is "delighted when anyone takes a serious interest in reporting on the mass murder going on in Palestine, while most of the world turns a blind eye. I did many interviews for Radio Free Eireann ... I will work with anyone who has good attitudes, and stands up against injustice and war-mongering, be they peace commissioner, freedom fighter, soldier, prisoner ... the divisions between people has always been our downfall here in Ireland."
The attack by Mary Kelly on a US Navy airplane at Shannon Airport seems to have caused even more divisions here. It also marked a turning point in this country's attitudes towards the peace activists at Shannon Airport. Previously viewed as fluffy, young and idealistic, after Wednesday morning's vandalism, the peace movement has come to be seen in a more sinister light.
The attack, which will cost the Irish taxpayer {đE}500,000 to {đE}1m, also highlighted the casual disregard of the peace movement towards accuracy, in their words or in their actions. The attack was hailed by the peace movement as the "disarming" of an American "deathplane". In fact, the plane that Kelly vandalised, The City of Dallas, was a transport plane on the way to an Italian airbase at Sigonella near Naples, a NATO logistics base. It was carrying 23 men from a fleet logistics support squadron who provide support on the movement of men and cargo, a squadron that has been passing through Ireland en route to Europe for years.
The airplane's cargo consisted of some airplane wheels and stands, toolboxes and flight cases containing cokes and snacks. And I can say this for a fact because I examined the plane and the cargo on Friday morning as the cargo was transferred into The Spirit of New York City, the replacement plane that was sent to take the men of the VR 59th on to Italy.
The crew of the plane were not expecting me and had no idea that anyone could possibly get into the hangar in which the damaged plane was being kept under tight security.
There was no question then that they could have been prepared for my spot of arms inspecting. But I told the commander of the crew that I was a journalist and that I wanted to have a look at the plane and the cargo, and after a quick call to a superior officer, I was told I could look wherever I wanted and ask whatever questions I wanted. That's the difference between your average Yank and your average Iraqi.
The commander took me on a tour of what is essentially a military version of the Boeing 737. He said that the plane was a transport aircraft which was here fully in accordance with Irish law. There were no weapons on board. The commander showed me the cargo hold, the seating area and the slightly modified cockpit and he also showed me the damaged nose of the plane, or the "radome" as its known.
Mary Kelly clearly hadn't hacked indiscriminately at the plane. Her work seemed reasonably methodical and she had managed to damage several different pieces of vital equipment the radome, the nosewheel assembly and other parts of the skin of the airplane.
Her work would have been laudable had it not been so laughably off the mark. The commander is not overly insulted by the attack on his innocent plane. Having spent a few days in Ireland he feels that Mary Kelly's action is not representative of how most people here feel.
A C-40 plane has zero military application and can not even be adapted for military use. It seems that the experts who man the peace camp, monitoring from a half-mile off what planes come in and pontificating about their uses, got it badly wrong on this occasion.
Mary Kelly could have cost Ireland much more than a {đE}1m with last Wednesday's action. She has also jeopardised what is a huge source of legitimate income for Shannon Airport. The US Navy and Air National Guard have been flying planes through Shannon for donkey's years. They pay the same fees as anyone else, they buy lots of fuel and when there are overnight stops, as in the case of the VR 59th last Tuesday night, they provide valuable income for local hotels in the off-season.
Like it or not, without these flights, Shannon would be practically deserted for more than six months of the year.
There is concern in Shannon this weekend that there are no World Airways troop carrying charter flights scheduled for Shannon for the next week or so. Instead, the World Airways charters carrying troops will be going through Frankfurt. Reliable sources in Shannon say that World Airlines staff in the US were getting harassed and threatened, via email, from Ireland.
World Airlines have been using Shannon since the company started. There is now a real concern that they may take all their stopover business to Frankfurt, which already hosts much of it.
American Transair or ATA has been another valuable customer at Shannon for 15 years. Recently, crews on ATA charter flights that have brought troops through Shannon have been harassed and doorstepped by protesters. ATA also could decide to reroute all their business through Frankfurt.
We overestimate our own importance in all this. Real war planes refuel in the air with fuel brought out from airbases in Britain, and the others could all go through other airports if they really wanted to.
But there's probably no point in trying to tell all this to the peace protesters. I discovered during the week, when I was involved in a discussion with one on the Marian Finucane Show, that they do not like to be taken on and they do not like to be questioned about their convictions.
Within an hour of me questioning the level of public support for the protesters and the strength of the protest itself, one intrepid activist had put my mobile phone number up on Indymedia, the principal activist website, encouraging activists to ring and tell me why "Hamburgers ain't good for the brain".
As a matter of interest, I received a sum total of two calls as a result of this Internet posting, both from the same woman, who refused to conduct a civilised discussion but merely wanted to rant at me.
Indymedia is an interesting example of how activists work. While it claims to be an independent voice of truth, it is in fact a free-for-all where any nutter can pass off anything he or she wants as fact. Anything you publish goes straight on to the site, with the onus being on the contributor to ensure the facts are correct. Items may be removed afterwards if they are found to be inaccurate, libelous or otherwise illegal.
None of the standard controls that apply to the mainstream press Indymedia vilifies so much applies to Indymedia. There are no standards of proof, no lawyers, indeed no controls at all on what appears, apart from the threat of removal later on. Yet these hysterical propagandists have managed, on occasion, to palm themselves off as journalists. The video footage of the May Day riots was taken by Indymedia. Yet it was carried on RTE as news footage.
For the record, some of the Indymedia crowd on the discussion board were gracious enough to admit that their woman wasn't terribly convincing on Marian Finucane and that the rest of us made a few reasonable points. Most of them, however, resorted to ranting and raging and personal insults and saying things like, "It's a pity he wasn't standing in front of the nose of that plane as the hatchet struck."
WHILE I'm sure there are many fine principled people in the peace movement, I must say that, in general, I have never come across a more narrow-minded, self-righteous bunch in my life.
And as they get the publicity they crave they are showing this to a wider audience. The peace movement is now imploding their icon is in prison with little public support apart strangely from that of Trevor Sargent and extreme republicans in the US.
The moral high ground is crumbling and the veneer of youthful idealism and sloganeering is being stripped away to reveal a petulant, immature, manipulative core that is cavalier with the truth and incensed when challenged.
And, by the way, you guys, it might interest you to know that none of the rest of us want a war either.
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Comments (25 of 25)
Jump To Comment: 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1O'Connor is right when he points out that anyone can pass off anything as fact on this site.
However, it is also true that a journalist can pass off anything as "fact" in a newspaper and have it accepted as factual. The only difference is that there is a perception of truth granted to what you pay for. Oh the joy of capitalism!
We've GOT to stop agreeing with each other, it's unnerving
The number was put up as comment (it was given out by the Sindo) and quickly removed by editors, hence the two calls Brendan got.
Once again the Indo were contacted and freely gave BOC's mobile no. without question! With the amount of lies and fabrication this guy has spun he deserves to get a few phone calls in response!
BTW...as he said himself he only recieved 2 phonecalls!
Do you think BOC has only one mobile!
NAAAAAhhh! thought not
only reading this debate now. Mob is right if BOCs personal number was put on indy. its an invasion of privacy. if it was the sindo number though, it would be ok. he openly works for the sindo, & his articles there are published under his byline.
lets get a sense of proportion: BOC is not a fascist. just a second rate journalist who has to resort to sensationalism to get himself noticed.
(no need for weightist comments Mob.)
The sentence "In fact, on Friday night, as she languished in prison for a crime she certainly committed, Mary Kelly was being feted at a $75-dollar-a-head dinner in New York." is inaccurate: Mary Kelly is in prison because she did not accept the bail terms offered to her. And "for a crime she certainly committed" seems to prejudge the decision of a court and might, if a case went to a jury trial, be seen to prejudice the defendant's chances of a fair trial.
bjg
P.S. If you've got drugged-up Merkins transiting
through Co.Clare, then the parents among you
might be well advised to lock up your kids for
safety's sake..
Who Really Murdered Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman?
When British police arrested Ian Huntley and
Maxine Carr during the early hours of Saturday
17 August, on suspicion of the abduction and
murder of schoolgirls Holly Wells and Jessica
Chapman, they did so in the certain knowledge
that absolutely no hard evidence existed
incriminating either suspect. The reason for
the rapid arrests was very simple: Just hours
earlier, two small bodies had been found near
the perimeter fence at USAF Lakenheath, and
the Prime Minister at 10 Downing Street was
terrified of a massive political scandal
involving American servicemen based in, or
transiting through, the United Kingdom.
http://www.bigwig.net/softwaredesign/hollyjessica/who_really_murdered_holly_wells_.htm
I believe Brendan O'Connor and Don lavery did a great article. Interetsing to see how the Kelly girl got it so wrong. Ah sure it was mistaken identity, a bit like collatoral damage!
Anyway, this comment will probably be removed by the Chief Censor at Indymeida.ie because they do not like comments that don't suit them. The Sindo article has obviously annoyed all at Indymedia because of the truthfulness of it.
Now I come to think of it, though, surely this O'Connor chap has breached airport security in a reprehensible way. Who was that Ennis Garda who wanted to be told of all suspicious activities? We must, after all, be mature about this.
bjg
This Brendan O'Connor chap is an example to all of us, and in particular to the Gardai and the government. They, after all, maintained that they could not inspect the cargoes of American aircraft passing through Shannon; this O'Connor chap (presumably a new recruit to the peace movement) has shown what can be done. Let us hope that the government emulates him and inspects all the other planes.
Hail Brendan O'Connor, the new leader of the peace movement.
bjg
Congratulations Brendan! You must be the only person in Ireland who has managed to inspect the cargo of any of the US military planes. Did you get past the (non-existent) security by dressing up as a priest and doing a “funny” rap. Perhaps you’d care to share your secret infiltration methods with us? We’re obviously going about it all wrong.
A few points:-
“A C-40 plane has zero military application and can not even be adapted for military use” apart from “
carrying 23 men from a fleet logistics support squadron who provide support on the movement of men and cargo” which is surely a vital part of any mobilisation in the event of war.
As for your assertion that “They pay the same fees as anyone else”, you should try checking your facts – the Irish taxpayer foots the Irish Aviation Authority landing fees of all military aircraft, and the communication fees for overflights of those planes see:
http://www.gov.ie/debates-02/26Nov/Sect5.htm23 July 2002
And on to the priceless, “I have never come across a more narrow-minded, self-righteous bunch in my life” – pots, kettles, black.
The anti-peace protest spin is really getting going now with Brian Cowen appearing on The Sunday Supplement (sponsored by Hewlett Packard) on Today FM this morning, closely followed by Mary Harney on This Week on RTE Radio, both using much the same rhetoric, and both untroubled by any pesky questions. Expect plenty more of the same in coming weeks.
"It was carrying 23 men from a fleet logistics support squadron who provide support on the movement of men and cargo, a squadron that has been passing through Ireland en route to Europe for years."
Does the fact that its been happening for years make it alright? Ireland is not in NATO. NATO is not neutral. NATO are warmongers. Why should we assist them in their warmaking?
"But I told the commander of the crew that I was a journalist and that I wanted to have a look at the plane and the cargo, and after a quick call to a superior officer, I was told I could look wherever I wanted and ask whatever questions I wanted."
After a quick call - I assume you told him eho you worked for and whose side you were on before he let 'inspect' the plane? Funny that when Tim and others have tried to even photograph planes and troops they have been actively shall we say, 'discouraged'. There was a good article on this on the wire a while ago called "Inside the belly of the beast" which can be accessed from the front page. May I suggest you read this Brendan?
"That's the difference between your average Yank and your average Iraqi."
And what exactly is that supposed to mean Brendan? Don't you think thats being just a tad racist? Disgusting.
"Having spent a few days in Ireland he feels that Mary Kelly's action is not representative of how most people here feel."
And he managed to glean this 'fact' after spending a few days here? Amazing, truly amazing. If only we all had our fingers so firmly on the pulse.
"The US Navy and Air National Guard have been flying planes through Shannon for donkey's years. They pay the same fees as anyone else"
Well as far as I know, they don't pay any fees, in fact, in effect the Irish taxpayer is subsidising the war effort.
"World Airlines have been using Shannon since the company started. There is now a real concern that they may take all their stopover business to Frankfurt, which already hosts much of it.... ATA also could decide to reroute all their business through Frankfurt."
Which backs up what most of us say about US Imperialism - if you don't tow the line, we stop investing. If you step too much out of line, we may try and overthrow you (Chile, Cuba, Korea, Vietnam, Guetamala, El Salvador, Nicuragua and most recently Venezuela). How democratic from these 'freedom loving' administrations.
"None of the standard controls that apply to the mainstream press Indymedia vilifies so much applies to Indymedia."
And this is a bad thing? Not having editors to worry about, not having advertisers to worry about, and not having to worry about 'towing the line'. The mainstream media was a joke during Gulf War One (actively involved in publishing propaganda, ie lies) - during the Troubles the mainstream media was a sham (and I'm not a supporter of republicanism - though I do think that truth and objectivity matter) - in the aftermath of the Afghan war, there has been a virtual black-out of coverage. These are just three examples - oh then there was the 'objective and balanced' reporting by our national press during the Nice referenda.
"The video footage of the May Day riots was taken by Indymedia. Yet it was carried on RTE as news footage."
And? Is there a problem here?
"WHILE I'm sure there are many fine principled people in the peace movement, I must say that, in general, I have never come across a more narrow-minded, self-righteous bunch in my life."
These would be the three activists you met while at the peace camp? Of course, no-one could call Brendan O'Corror self-righteous, because that of course would be narrow-minded. "Jesus in da house" - Not funny brendan.
"The peace movement is now imploding"
Again with the finger on the pulse there Brendan. We'll see on the 15th!
"And, by the way, you guys, it might interest you to know that none of the rest of us want a war either."
Really Brendan? Well then why don't you do something about it rather than ambushing well meaning people on radio, and printing lies and propaganda in your rag?
and for the record, im not a pacifist - i'm anti-imperialist.
"While it claims to be an independent voice of truth, it is in fact a free-for-all where any nutter can pass off anything he or she wants as fact"
Isn't this a description of the Sunday Independent as well?
Like your friend who didn't want to go to Shannon because he felt he's "not cool enough" BoC also has this deep-felt insecurity about himself, but unlike your friend BoC can vent his feelings of rejection through the national rag by slinging cheap shots at those he feels he's "not cool enough for". BoC claims to be anti-war but because of the slagging he gets in public for his shit journalism and his past antics on RTE the general public tend to laugh at him rather than hold any respect for him. And so BoC feels in his deep state of insecurity "o.k. I can slag these people off and get paid for it". He's from the same generation as alot of anti-war activists but he knows he can't be accepted or respected whilst working for the rag that be the Indo, so he will continue to accept the cheque for writing crap and finding new fond friends in FF. BoC there still is time, save yourself we're here with open arms!
Personally I blame RTE for this mans problems!
--Brendan has his two mates hard at work!
--by Brendan O C's Mates Sun, Feb 2 2003, 3:47pm
Love that you're either for us or againist us, unblinking attitude of the right is so prevalation on the left.
Quit bleating slogans, the Socialist attitude of don't critize your own side, encourages shoddy arguments and weakens the possibility of real deabte.
I can dislike O'Connor and hold his beliefs in contempt and yet somehow at the same time be critical of our behaviour.
If you don't anaylse your behaviour and actions, to learn from your mistakes you're not going to achieve anything.
--Brendan has his two mates hard at work!
--by Brendan O C's Mates Sun, Feb 2 2003, 3:47pm
Love that you're either for us or againist us, unblinking attitude of the right is so prevalation on the left.
Quit bleating slogans, the Socialist attitude of don't critize your own side, encourages shoddy arguments and weakens the possibility of real deabte.
I can dislike O'Connor and hold his beliefs in contempt and yet somehow at the same time be critical of our behaviour.
If you don't anaylse your behaviour and actions, to learn from your mistakes you're not going to achieve anything.
Interesting article from O'Connor today.
Read an interview with Eoin "DUBYA" Dubsky last week and he came across reasonably well - although his comment about not watching/playing sport was painfully predictable.
Asked a friend of mine a while back was he going to Shannon to protest,
His response was "I'm not cool enough"
Brendan O' C is dead right on this one. The fact that no-one on indymedia has challenged anything in the article other than the nebulous "printing lies in a national newspaper" defence is very telling.
What is it the majority of sane occupants of this island used to say about the violence that the IRA and now CIRA (who Mary Kelly openly supports) inflicted for several years ? : "Not In Our Name".
What is it that "peace" protestors like Kelly say now about war in Iraq ? : "Not In....."
Which argument am I to believe ?
A jimmy or (Brendans mate), Indymedia and Mary Kelly do not support twats they support the innocent civilians of the Middle East!
The comments posted about him on Indymedia haven't been immature or biased?
This is a double standard.
Publishing a journalists phone no. that is willingly given by the paper he works for is completely justified when the journalist in question has the power to publish lies in a national newspaper (even if it is the national rag) and feed the general public with untruths and misinformation. Those of us who know the truth behind B o C's lies have every right to contact him and voice our objections to his immature,biased coverage of Shannon Peacecamp.
Hi Brendan!
Why not turn Ireland into a military camp for the U.S? It should be worth several billions, and think of all the jobs. Part of Ireland is controlled by the British military. Fianna Fail and its propagandists like O'Connor want to integrate Ireland, North and South, into the Anglo-American Empire--which is the implication of the Stormont Agreement. Provo Sinn Fein is an integral part of this process. Gerry Adams is a close personal and ideological friend of Congressman Peter King, a rabid war hawk and right wing bigot. So leave it to those who are willing...
oh dear i feel left out.
is that because i don´t live in Ireland anymore?
and don´t have a vote?
will I write to the Independent?
will I defend the courage of my convictions?
The fat tit has a point.
The level of abuse that was flung at O'Connor on the site was pathetic. For every Eoin Dubsky on our side theres twenty screaming nutters who can't stand a rational debate.
He is intitled to his opinion, and the level of facism that rose it's ugly head on the site was obscene.
Okay you don't like what he has to say fine, and yes he's a fat unfunny little fuck, but hurling abuse at him isn't the way of a rational debate.
Can someone from Indymedia confim this was his number published on the site? If so thats a disgrace, remember the fuss Pat C kicked up. The privacy rule works for people you don't like. If I'm wrong, call the Indo and demand an apology.
Finally face facts you lost the debate on Marian, fine you were out numbered and he resorted to name calling, whoop de fucking do, it's a war remember, and this gets you outraged. Instead of bitching and moaning, get some PR training there are several people in the left who could give peace camp members some tips in a debate, so you don't come off looking like a po faced, humourless, incoherant, two faced left wing twat.
Look you're not going to convince everyone, and O'Connor is paid to be controversial and stir shit up, the reaction on this site has been laughable and shown the irish left at it's worst.