What do the people of Iraq want??

by Ish Kabibble Wed Feb 05, 2003 14:49

Regrettably, the conclusion is: No one.

Flatten the fuckers.

by Planxty Tue Feb 04, 2003 09:16

An article in today's Guardian gives space to the views of 11 Iraqis - 7 against, 4 for the war.

Horrific reading:

by Anonymous Mon Feb 03, 2003 17:12

Thank you for the above. To try and quickly comment on some of your points:-

"I think that WE have no place as outsiders arguing about what the Iraqi people want. We have no right deciding this for them with bombs."

What a pro-war campaigner would argue is that as concerned citizens and nations, we should care about the welfare of people in other lands. They would argue that the people of Iraq have been living in desperate conditions and many have been killed by Saddams regime. That they will forever be a nation living under terror until he is removed.

Don't worry "I" totally agree with what you are saying about the horrificness of what America has already done to that country. Something is going to have to be done about America. It is getting scarier by the minute. I think George W. Bush IS Hitler. He has to be removed in the next election if not before hand.

But to continue:-

"The point is very clear-- the US does not give a damn about human rights, or democracy, or what the people of Iraq want. The US wants one thing and one thing only -- control of Iraq's oil. And Britain wants a little piece of that action, as do many other countries."

If you read what I have said ealier, I totally agree that the US gives a damn about the people of Iraq.

But despite their motives will they inadvertantly be doing the people of Iraq a favour by getting rid of him??

I still think we need more specific information as to what the people of Iraq actually want to fully and properly argue the pro-war lobby.

by mel Mon Feb 03, 2003 16:13

I think that WE have no place as outsiders arguing about what the Iraqi people want. We have no right deciding this for them with bombs.

In the last Gulf War we (everyone who didnt intervene) dessimated that country. More than 85,500 tons of explosives were dropped. The US led allies destroyed more than 90 percent of Iraq's electrical capacity, the majority of its municipal water treatment and sewage plants, bridges, roads, 28 civilian hospitals, 52 health centers, a 900 year old church, mosques, an asbestos plant, grain silos, a tractor assembly plant and a fertilizer plant, 38 schools, airports, factories, animal vaccination centers, government office buildings, dams, entire neighborhoods, oil tankers, oil refineries, oil wellheads, nuclear reacters (!!), chemical weapons stockpiles (with US troops downwind--duh!) telephone lines, cars, trucks, busses...

Depleted uranium coated bombs left as much as 40 tons of uranium dust behind..

And yes, a lot of Iraq's troops surrendered, too bad US forces were ordered to shoot at them, as they surrendered. ("Like shooting fish in a barrel" one soldier said).

And yes, some kurds and shihites rose up at America's bidding, but the US abandoned them, forcing hundreds of thousands into exhile.

(You can read all of this and more in Former US Attorney General Ramsey Clarks Excellent book "The Fires this Time-- US War Crimes in the Gulf" get it at the International Action Center web site.)

The point is very clear-- the US does not give a damn about human rights, or democracy, or what the people of Iraq want. The US wants one thing and one thing only -- control of Iraq's oil. And Britain wants a little piece of that action, as do many other countries.

by Anonymous Mon Feb 03, 2003 14:31

Thanks for that Gallimhead. As Andrew in the Anarchist party said, its hard to come by good information as to what the Iraqi people actually want. After all in the end of day, its all about them, not us nor the US.

Hopefully people will start sending in more information.

Hopefully we can build up a dossier for people like Eoin Dubsky and others who are going on public debate shows, because they need to be able to answer these questions, comprehensively and coherently and accurately.

If I can just get the bloody time I will do my own proper research into this matter.

Yours....

by Gaillimhed Mon Feb 03, 2003 11:48

AS THE threat of war looms on Iraq, attention is focused on George W Bush, Sadaam Hussein, and the attitudes of the Left and Right. If, or when, the conflict begins, the real casualties will be the Iraqi people, so often ignored in these ideological battles war breeds. A number of Iraqis live in Galway, and one of them, Nuria Mustafa Dunne, has been speaking to The Galway Advertiser, about why Iraqis cannot trust Sadaam or the USA, and why war is not the answer to the county's problems.

see http://www.galwayadvertiser.ie/dws/story.tpl?inc=2003/01/30/news/31521.html

by Anonymous Mon Feb 03, 2003 11:13

It pains me to say this, but I am now not TOTALLY convinced that bombing Iraq/removing Saddam, is not the right thing to do.

Obviously the US/UK don't give a damn about the people of Iraq. They are doing this for their own self interests. There is no doubting that.

From the little research I have done and from the debates and news on the situation, as I say, I am not convinced.

If you read the 6 interviews with actual Iraq's which was posted as a previous comment, you will get some idea of where I am coming from:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/02/voices_from_iraq/html/default.stm

I think there is absolutely no doubt, there are certain sections of the Iraqi people that are prepared for a bombing campaign to get him out.

The question is, how big is this section???

Saddam, as everyone knows is a tyrant. He has killed hundreds of thousands of his own people, and nearly all of the country is suffering because of his tyrinical rule. Will the war end up saving more lives than it kills??

As I say, all I am saying is that I am not totally convinced. Much more information is required on this matter.

I congradulate Eoin Dubsky on his performance on the RTE debate show last night. But again I think he really lacked this information. I cant remember that guy across from him (who was driving me nuts!) but Eoin could not really answer him or the chair when the question was put, surely are the Iraqi people going to be so much better off with out him that this war is worth it.

Anyhow all I'm asking, if for more information please. I think we have a duty to ourselves to inform ourselves on this matter. And know exactly what the Iraqi people want.

And probably more important than this duty, when people like Eoin and many others go on broadcasted debate shows they NEED THIS INFORMATION, cause these questions will be asked. And they will used as a strong tool by the pro-war debaters that this is the right thing to do.

So lets get them this information!!

Best regards.....

by rulebook Fri Jan 31, 2003 21:50

Bloody hell Ray, that was useful enough question and it recieved useful replies. So stop being such a stickler for silly rules. Its more important to have a vibrant debate rather than rule following sheep.

by Iraqi - Appealing Young Children's Association Fri Jan 31, 2003 02:12

Don't you understand? Rather than suffer another minute under the US/UK sanctions we want smart weapons to rain down upon our heads.

We want our guts to be blown out in festoons of purple ribbons enlivened with delicate pink and red tracery and the grey matter of our brains to be smeared upon the crumbling walls of our houses.

We want our sisters to be charred into photogenic abstracts of the morals of the C21, we want our sons to be turned to dust by nuclear bunker busters and our mothers to be liberated by cruise missiles.

Just the stuff that ordinary people have always wanted.

by Eoin O'M Thu Jan 30, 2003 19:35

Hey, try this, just found on the BBC. More ethnographic than comprehensive but

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/02/voices_from_iraq/html/default.stm

by Ray Thu Jan 30, 2003 16:42

If at all possible, you shouldn't post articles to the newswire that just ask a question. In this case, for example, there are plenty of existing articles discussing Iraq and the war, and the question could easily have been posted as a comment.
Something to remember for the future.

by anon Thu Jan 30, 2003 15:45

My mother and half of my relatives are Iraqi. A lot of people in my country do not like the president but at the same time we respect him for standing up to Western arrogance and control. Saddam is the only Arab leader today and for the last couple of decades that has been the strong voice of the Arab world. The other leaders are like sheep. He is the only one that really speaks his mind without using all the diplomatic bullshit language. He tells America where they can go and that takes guts.

Nevertheless, what many Iraqis (and many Arabs in general) would like is to live in a democracy. It would be nice to bring about change across the Arab world from dictatorships to democracies. BUT, I am certain that the Americans will place some puppet government in Saddam's place if they do go ahead with war. That is why war is not the answer. War is not the answer also because hundreds of thousands will be killed, maimed and their lives destroyed in a number of ways. The deformed children are still being born thanks to the radioactive materials the Americans were so kind to give to us in the last war. Can you immagine what they are going to do this time?!

My country is not perfect, but it is my country! How arrogant for our fate to be decided by some non-elected moron in Washington!

by Andrew Thu Jan 30, 2003 15:40

Given that Iraq is a brutal police state you are not likely to find any accurate "Opinion polls, Studies, Surveys" that reveal what public opinion actually is. The end of the Gulf war when iraqi troops deserted in their tens of thousands and there were rebellions in the South and North suggest that getting rid of Saddam is something they would like to see. But its pretty unlikely that most Iraqi's see a war which may kill them or their conscript sones as a way to do this. All the more so because they are aware that Saddam used to be a US ally and they are most likely to plumb for a similar one in the future.

Some details on the uprisings at the 'end' of the last war at http://struggle.ws/ws92/gulf34.html