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SINN FEIN BACKS PORTADOWN MOSQUE national |
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news report
 Thursday January 16, 2003 07:28 by (1) Maureen Coleman , (2) 4 Local News
 UNIONISTS PROVIDE THEIR USUAL IGNORANT DRIVEL IN OPPOSITION UNIONISTS on Craigavon Borough Council were accused of displaying ignorance today in a row over plans to build a mosque. Ulster Unionist councillor Fred Crowe also claimed that encouraging Muslims to settle in the area might open the door for "militants" while another councillor went further – suggesting that the mosque could be used by Al-Qaida terrorist cells. Sinn Fein and representatives from the local Muslim community hit out at the unionists' comments. Publication Date: 15 January 2003 By Maureen Coleman UNIONISTS on Craigavon Borough Council were accused of displaying ignorance today in a row over plans to build a mosque. Outline planning permission has been granted for the construction of Northern Ireland's first mosque, in a field at Bleary, near Portadown. But after objections from some Unionist councillors and local residents, planners were asked to reconsider and a final recommendation has yet to be made. Former Ulster Unionist Mayor of Craigavon Fred Crowe said he was opposed to the mosque on infrastructure grounds, claiming it would pose traffic, noise and drainage problems. He said that residents had been assured that there would be no "calls to worship", but pointed out that chanting could disturb people living nearby. "This mosque would be built near eight or nine villas and although we've been assured that there will be no noise, they are inclined to chant in big numbers, which is bound to cause a disturbance," he said. "I think that a mosque would devalue the area and introduce people into the community who don't actually live here. "I'm as liberal as anybody but there are genuine reasons why this proposal should not go ahead." Woolsey Smith of the DUP said he had been told the mosque would not be an eastern-type building and that there would be no "wailing" noise calling Muslims to worship. "I would be worried for residents in the area as to just what they will be confronted with," he said. But Sinn Fein and representatives from the local Muslim community hit out at the unionists' comments. Councillor John O'Dowd said he believed the unionist representatives were opposed to anything "other than what they believe in". "This is an equality matter," he said. "The unionists just cannot bring themselves into an inclusive society in Craigavon. "A mosque could only enrich the community by encouraging a diversity of cultures." A spokesman for the Muslim community in Portadown said: "These so-called council leaders are just showing their ignorance and it's that type of ignorance which has this country the way it is. "Why don't they come and meet with the Muslims and find out about their religion before they start commenting on it. "Lack of knowledge is a terrible thing." Source: Belfast Telegraph http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=369445
Although the small Muslim community in Portadown are looking to build the £200,000 mosque through their own funding, Unionist councillors have voted to delay building claiming local residents would be kept awake by the noise of worshippers and the call to prayer. Ulster Unionist councillor Fred Crowe also claimed that encouraging Muslims to settle in the area might open the door for "militants" while another councillor went further – suggesting that the mosque could be used by Al-Qaida terrorist cells. Concern was also expressed that the building could cause sewage problems and heavy traffic on the country road leading to it. However, supporters of the mosque have claimed that no such problems would occur given that there are, at the most, 200 Muslims in the Craigavon area. The construction has been delayed but is expected to go ahead in the near future. Elsewhere, leading Ulster Unionist Dermot Nesbitt has claimed that the Equality Commission in Northern Ireland needs to be reformed or scrapped. Mr Nesbitt made the remark during an interview in a local newspaper, and claimed that the commission had "mislead" the public in regard to its recent equality monitoring report. In an opinion piece, the former Environment Minister argued: "The Equality Commission needs careful public scrutiny. That, to date, has not happened. Since an important aspect of its work is seriously questioned, it has presented its own statistics in a misleading fashion, and it has set no performance target by which to be judged – concentrating merely on process not outcome. "I realise equality is a sensitive issue (but) there are many who still doubt religious equality of opportunity, but it has been comprehensively addressed." (MB) |
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Comments (23 of 23)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23Will they stand with the loyalists as they have so bravely done about the Garvaghy Road?
Kathy,
are you married to Pat C
"I think that a mosque would introduce people into the community who don't actually live here."
-Fred Crowe
Funniest thing said by anyone ever.
Kathy grow up. Stop bringing indymedia down to yoiur petty sectarian level
i think kathy is stirring things due to her style. if she wants to make a point, then she should do so. rather than just making her short sharp attacks.
however certain groups have given Left Cover to Portadown loyalists by supporting their right to march down the garvaghy road. this has emboldened the loyalists, making them believe they can get away with any sort of bigotry.
Do you think the average loyalist knows or cares what the SP's position on marches is?
as was shown so well in QUB (sp opposing naming bursary after pat finucane), loyalists can use the sp to give left cover to their bigotry.
Do you think they really care?
"Wa-hey, we've got left cover, we can do what we like! I'm going out to throw stones at some Taigs, and there's nothing you can do about it, because Joe Higgins says its okay!"
I mean, I think the SP line on the north is wrong, but I'm sure most loyalists really couldn't give a shit what The Voice says about marching down the Garvaghy Road. The SP position is easy enough to criticise without pretending that if they all woke up tomorrow morning singing 'A Nation Once Again' and calling for vote transfers to Sinn Fein, loyalists would start worrying that they didn't have 'left cover'. You don't have to implicate the SP in loyalist attacks to argue that their position is wrong, and I think its almost impossible to understate the importance loyalists place on the opinions of a couple of hundred Trots, most of whom live in the republic anyway.
But aren't you tempted to try? :)
"You don't have to implicate the SP in loyalist attacks to argue that their position is wrong,"
really ray, do you have to misrepresent me? i never implicated the the sp in loyalist attacks; i do however they bear some moral responsibility for the ongoing situation on the garvaghy road.
after 12 people have been killed by loyalists to get orange feet on the road, the sp still believe they have a right to march down it.
what would it take for the sp to change their mind?
i think it is relevant to raise the garvaghy road in relation to the mosque; if the orange orders constitution made bigoted refferences regarding muslims or jews rather than catholics, then i doubt if very many "trotskyists" would be defending their right to march.
We both know that the SP would be critical of the objectors to a mosque, so why drag them into this? I think it sits badly with your protests last month that you'd happily stop criticising the SP if they stopped criticising republicanism.
The funniest thing ever was said by Pat a few weeks ago.
Pat C, responding to a plea to reject sectarism on Indymedia
"I agree with (this) it's important to end the sectarism, and division such as the kind the SP encourages and promotes"
And he didn't get the irony.
Mind you, we're talking about someone who shouts
"No free speech for fascists" and doesn't see the paradox.
Look Pat's from the "get the boot in" school of political debate, he'll happily twist whatever his opponents say to suit what he needs. He'll put words in their mouthes so they'll be too busy denying what he claims they said, to mount a coherant argument againist Pat. He'll use any opportunity/flimsy pretext to launch an attack on his opponents.
You just shudder to think of how bad the world would be if Pat ever got in charge.
He personifies everything I loath and I want the old lizard to hurry up and die so the rest of us can move forward and ignore his jibbering rantings.
KM
-Dalek in mothballs then Pat?-
"Pat C, responding to a plea to reject sectarism on Indymedia
"I agree with (this) it's important to end the sectarism, and division such as the kind the SP encourages and promotes""
i dont make my attacks out of context, i stick to the relevant thread. i was also making the point that it should be possible to disagree with the sp on the north without being slandered as anti-protestant.
"Mind you, we're talking about someone who shouts
"No free speech for fascists" and doesn't see the paradox. "
yes mob you are a fool. a child like you would see that as a paradox, you are incapable of handling any complex arguement.
"Look Pat's from the "get the boot in" school of political debate, he'll happily twist whatever his opponents say to suit what he needs."
i've put no words in your mouth, you've hung yourself with your own pro-imperialism.
"He'll put words in their mouthes so they'll be too busy denying what he claims they said, to mount a coherant argument againist Pat."
give examples. as usual you expose yourself as a pathetic liar. cahill claimed he hadnt blamed taigs for the holycross siege, i proved he had.
the sp support the right of the orange order to march down the garvaghy road. i didnt make that up.
"He'll use any opportunity/flimsy pretext to launch an attack on his opponents.
"
thats it, turn reality on its head. you are the one launching the attack. as usual
"He personifies everything I loath and I want the old lizard to hurry up and die so the rest of us can move forward and ignore his jibbering rantings."
is this meant to be some sort of analysis or criticism? if this is the best you can do then you really should stick to kiddies chatrooms.
"Dalek in mothballs then Pat?-"
this is the funniest one mob has come up with yet. last month he invented 3 different identities to allege i was the dalek.
irony is truly lost on him.
"We both know that the SP would be critical of the objectors to a mosque, so why drag them into this? "
i have on 4 occasions stated why i think the garvaghy rd & the mosque are connected. how many more times?
1.its all about bigotry in portadown
2. getting away with the siege of the garvaghy road has emboldened the loyalist bigots.
3. i dont think "trotskyists" would be supporting the right to march down the garvaghy road if the orange order constitution made bigoted refferences to muslims & jews.
you might not like my answer, but you've got it.
on both threads about the mosque, you were the one to name the SP.
"I think it sits badly with your protests last month that you'd happily stop criticising the SP if they stopped criticising republicanism"
ray my argument was that
1. comments should be made in context of the thread
2. it should be possible to disagree with the sp on the north without being caricatured as a anti-protestant.
why are you so argumentive today? did you score some speed from US pilots?
It was blatant from your comments that your were discussing the SP with your references, Ray called you and it and you used this as a pretext to launch at Ray and at the SP.
Fuck off you dull little man
"Oh fuck off you pedantic little shit
by king Mob Fri, Jan 17 2003, 10:30am"
Really such language, you could do better than that if you broadened your vocabulary. May I reccomend TS Eliot? Not wanting to overtax you, I suggest you start with Old Possums Book of Practical Cats.
"It was blatant from your comments that your were discussing the SP with your references,"
The SP aren't the only group who support the Jaffas on this issue. There are also lots of "Useful Fools" like your good self.
"Ray called you and it and you used this as a pretext to launch at Ray and at the SP."
Your syntax is a bit mangled there. But I get the gist of it. Ray was the person who kept harping on about the SP; he was having a go at me.
"Fuck off you dull little man"
Again, we will have to do something to improve your use of the Queens English.
1. pro Imperialism. When exactly have I said sure imperalism is only fantastic. Or even said I supported see Pat making stuff up again
The SP aren't the only group who support the Jaffas on this issue. There are also lots of "Useful Fools" like your good self.
Can you show me exactly where I said ANYTHING about the Holy Cross school EVER?
Er no you can't so shut the fuck up.
Actually Pat you haven't proved anything Cahill said, why don't you show us EXACTLY what/when
-Brian Cahill blamed the Taigs
-I said I was pro-imperialism
-I said I was againist the residents
Oh no wait you can't can you. Go on I dare you, I fucking double dare you, you fucking humungous mongloid shit.
Stop telling lies. Prove your points you keep saying we said this or that. We said we didn't. Prove that I'm lying, or be proven to be the fucking liar we know you and find you beneath contempt.
"1. pro Imperialism. When exactly have I said sure imperalism is only fantastic. Or even said I supported see Pat making stuff up again"
again the mangled syntax. you have consistently oppose nations right to self determination. you see no difference between the nationalism of an imperialist power and the nationalism of an oppressed people.
"Can you show me exactly where I said ANYTHING about the Holy Cross school EVER?
Er no you can't so shut the fuck up."
really now mob, mind your language. you use so many different identities, i am not going to track down exact examples for you. but even as king mob yoiu have always taken a pro loyalist and even pro ruc line. remember when you moaned about how the gaa taught people to hate the ruc?
"Actually Pat you haven't proved anything Cahill said, why don't you show us EXACTLY what/when
-Brian Cahill blamed the Taigs"
its in the qoutes i put and the link i mentioned at
http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=23405&start=50&sid=27694
"-I said I was pro-imperialism"
see above.
"-I said I was againist the residents"
you are, so dont try & deny it.
"Oh no wait you can't can you. Go on I dare you, I fucking double dare you, you fucking humungous mongloid shit."
now really, do you call that political analysis. your attitude to mongols is deplorable. so you are anti disabled people as well as being a racist and pro-imperialist.
"Stop telling lies. Prove your points you keep saying we said this or that. We said we didn't. Prove that I'm lying, or be proven to be the fucking liar we know you and find you beneath contempt."
you must be foaming at the mouth by this stage. i have proved my points both about cahill anmd you.
now please go away. i hope you receive the treatment which you so obviously require.
-again the mangled syntax. you have consistently oppose nations right to self determination. you see no difference between the nationalism of an imperialist power and the nationalism of an oppressed people.
So that makes me pro imperialist? Are numerial dyslexic? One and One makes five million?
I have issues with nationalism, how it is usually used to drive a wedge between ordinary people who have more in common with each other then the people putting them in uniforms and trying to kill each other.
And I've never deined the rights of nations for self determination, I've merely pointed out that the end result is a change in the person screwing the people over. Thats not self determination, that getting killed trying to figure out whos going to have his hands on the yoke, on your back.
I recall in the distant past you made some bombastic speech about the glorious people of countries like Pakistan, Nigeria, and Jamaca throwing off the heel of British imperial oppressors. I merely pointed out that the people of these countries are still oppressed, it's just the oppressor has changed skin tone. This is your warped little world means I'm pro imperalism.
-really now mob, mind your language. you use so many different identities, i am not going to track down exact examples for you. but even as king mob yoiu have always taken a pro loyalist and even pro ruc line. remember when you moaned about how the gaa taught people to hate the ruc?
So this means that I'm againist the residents of Holy Cross? Are you stupid? This is you again leaping out and saying that this means something else entirely.
-its in the qoutes i put and the link i mentioned at
http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=23405&start=50&sid=27694
I've looked at Cahills stuff, and I find it hopelessly naive can see one shred of evidence that he supports the shouting of Scum at 8 year old school girls.
"-I said I was pro-imperialism"
"-I said I was againist the residents"
"you are, so dont try & deny it."
You can't provide a single shred of evidence to support either of those claims. Shut the fuck up and stop telling lies about me.
-now really, do you call that political analysis. your attitude to mongols is deplorable. so you are anti disabled people as well as being a racist and pro-imperialist.
Racist how? Exactly WHEN and WHERE have I said anything that could remotely considering RACISM
You fat bald lying shit.
"I've looked at Cahills stuff, and I find it hopelessly naive can see one shred of evidence that he supports the shouting of Scum at 8 year old school girls."
now who is lying? i never said he supported the abuse of the children. i said he blames the taigs as well instead of putting the responsibility on the loyalists.
heres some examples:
'The dispute at Holy Cross was at root not a result of discrimination against Catholics but a manifestation of an ongoing war over the redefinition of sectarian territory in North Belfast. Neither sectarian "side" in that bloody and futile squabble over streets and interfaces deserves our support. ' Cahill
'At root, this conflict is about redefining boundaries between Catholic and Protestant areas, which is further polarising the communities. ' cahill
you can get more of Cahills poison at the link.
"You can't provide a single shred of evidence to support either of those claims. Shut the fuck up and stop telling lies about me."
i tell no lies. you support the role of british imperialism in ireland & abroad.
""-now really, do you call that political analysis. your attitude to mongols is deplorable. so you are anti disabled people as well as being a racist and pro-imperialist.""
"Racist how? Exactly WHEN and WHERE have I said anything that could remotely considering RACISM"
I notice you have avoided dealing with your abuse of the disabled.
By suggesting that the "natives" are not fit to rule themselves and that they were just as well off under imperialism.
"You fat bald lying shit."
really now, is this political criticism? if thats the best you can do then its back to the kiddie discussion groups with you.
in any case, i'm not fat (perhaps a few pounds overweight, but i've only recently given up cigarettes) and i'm not bald, its a No. 1 cut.
and i dont lie. you are racist, pro imperialist & anti disabled.
what could have caused this? perhaps ypu had a bad experience with a disabled, coloured member of SF?
I have found this to be a most interesting case.
King Mob displays some of the classic syptoms of post-colonial withdrawal symptoms. He sees the former Imperial power as a mother figure and wants it to return. He will then be able to return to its "womb".
In King Mobs case there are added paraphillias:
his particular hatred of any aspect of Irish culture;
his fethisisation of Native populations in the post-colonial states being unfit to rule themselves;
his hatred of the disabled;
countering this is his opposition to Israel.
In my opinion, King Mob suffered a childhod trauma; returning from school early one afternonn he discovered his mother in flgrante delicto.
She was getting it in all 3 holes from Moshe Dyan (Israeli, one-eyed), Sean Mac Stiofain (Irish Republican & Irish language activist), Col Gaddaffi (Arab & leader who threw out the British).
This would explain King Mobs psychosis. I would be happy to treat King Mob.
The fake king mob only ever appears when we're having an argument pat I know thing its safe to assume that you have been considently impersonating me on the news wire for some time. The impersonator turned up when you and I first started arguing not before. He usually only surfaces when you and I are talking, and usually manifests himself on other "irrelevant" threads. I've been looking at the pattern for a while now. I tested it on this thread the faker appeared for the first time in months after I intentially stayed away from you for a while, and then started goading you
I find it safe to say that there is little point discussing anything who will not only intentially misinterperate me, and then will pretend to be me to discredit me. You're a laughing stock who will use deception to discredit those you disagree with.
I find your behaviour contemptable, laughably so, I actually feel pity for you, that you feel so worthless to go to these lengths to discredit me.
For the record as a parting shoot because I feel no urge to speak to you again. I'm not a racist, and I've stated my opinion about the pointlessness of national self determination when after a bloody revolution the people (wherever they are) are still oppressed. The mongloid comment was a quote from the great social revolutinary bill hicks a intellect who I'm sure was alive today would heap scorn upon you, and your worthless beliefs.
Cahill and his parties opinions are flawed about the north but that doesn't make him a sympathiser; only to you. And that simplistic worldview is something that needs to go soon.
My worldview holding militant nationalism in equal contempt as militant loyalist worldview, makes me a betrayer of the cause in your moronic world. Pat grasp this, I can be opposed to the militant IRA view at the same time as being opposed to the loyalist terrorist. I'd ask you to read Eammonn Collins book "killing rage" which is damning attack on those "noble defenders" of the nationalist community.
A quote from the same book
"*Sean* (a noted IRA man) was not enthustastic about the ceasefire (in the late nineties), We discussed IRA tactics and I said one of the things that angered me was that we (the IRA) had not been able to prevent the hundreds of secterian assassinations of Catholics. Sean a former OC of a north belfast unit said "Those killings actually benfitted the IRA. They lead to greater support for us. We could respond eventually by taking out leading loyalists, which proved to the people that the IRA were defending them". His honesty shocked me and underlined the cynicism behind an essential line of IRA propaganda. Many catholics allowed themselves to become prisoners of the IRA for 25 years through a fear the IRA did little to assuage".
Read the book Pat, it'll awake you to the contemptable human beings you so admire. It makes dust of your pointless hate filled world view.
"The fake king mob only ever appears when we're having an argument pat I know thing its safe to assume that you have been considently impersonating me on the news wire for some time. "
mob i'm not the only one who you attack. your impersonator(s) have turned up when i haven't even been involved in exchanges with you. you are the one who is so adept at creating new identities.
in december you used THREE different identities to attack me on the one thread. ironically you were accusing me of using another name.
"The impersonator turned up when you and I first started arguing not before."
you wouldnt make a good detective. actually you started arguing with me. you went apeshit about a michael collins lecture in the national museum.
"He usually only surfaces when you and I are talking, "
if you check, you will see that is incorrect. i've been offline for a week sometimes only to return & find you had upset some other people who were dealing with you.
"and usually manifests himself on other "irrelevant" threads."
irrelevant threads? so the war in the gulf is irrelevant to you?
i have better things to do with my time than to impersonate a fool like you. i certainly am not going to disrupt anti-war threads by insulting activists in your name.
"I've been looking at the pattern for a while now. I tested it on this thread the faker appeared for the first time in months after I intentially stayed away from you for a while, and then started goading you"
so you started goading me? why? what is this obsession you have with me?
"I find it safe to say that there is little point discussing anything who will not only intentially misinterperate me, and then will pretend to be me to discredit me. You're a laughing stock who will use deception to discredit those you disagree with."
you are incapable of rational adult debate; you just use juvenile insults continuously. you are the one who is the laughing stock.
"I find your behaviour contemptable, laughably so, I actually feel pity for you, that you feel so worthless to go to these lengths to discredit me.
"
poor mob, he admits to goading me, then he goes on like this. mob, we all know what you are against: national liberation struggles, anti-fascists, you even make insulting remarks about the disabled.
no one on indy knows what you are in favour of.
"For the record as a parting shoot because I feel no urge to speak to you again. "
good, i hope this is the end of your obsession with me.
"I'm not a racist,"
you dont think the "natives" are fit to govern themselves. that effectively makes you a racist.
"and I've stated my opinion about the pointlessness of national self determination when after a bloody revolution the people (wherever they are) are still oppressed."
oh yes, thats an arguyment for not dismantling colonial empires.
" The mongloid comment was a quote from the great social revolutinary bill hicks a intellect who I'm sure was alive today would heap scorn upon you, and your worthless beliefs. "
so you defend your use of abusive terms towards the disabled. it says a lot about your own mentality.
"Cahill and his parties opinions are flawed about the north but that doesn't make him a sympathiser; only to you. And that simplistic worldview is something that needs to go soon."
i exposed cahills lies by using his own qoutes. my worldview wont going away, its far from simplistic. its your southern loyalist empire "socialist" views that are on the way out.
"My worldview holding militant nationalism in equal contempt as militant loyalist worldview, makes me a betrayer of the cause in your moronic world. "
you are incapable of differentiating between
1. the reactionary nationalism of the british & loyalist dupes
and
2. the revolutionary nationalism of the oppressed.
"Pat grasp this, I can be opposed to the militant IRA view at the same time as being opposed to the loyalist terrorist."
no problem with that. its your hatred of all things irish.
"I'd ask you to read Eammonn Collins book "killing rage" which is damning attack on those "noble defenders" of the nationalist community. "
collins is a self confessed informer who broke with the ira & became politically hostile to them.
why would anyone accept such a book as being a true & objective account?
"A quote from the same book"
" Sean a former OC of a north belfast unit said "Those killings actually benfitted the IRA. They lead to greater support for us. We could respond eventually by taking out leading loyalists, which proved to the people that the IRA were defending them"."
i dont accept the truth of that statement, but what is your point in using it? that the ira were wrong in taking out loyalist leaders responsible for sectarian murders?
are you seriously suggesting that the ira allowed their own leadership & that of sf to be put at risk (even if you thought they saw ordinary catholics as cannon fodder)? 24 members of sf were assassinated by loyalists.
i feel sorry for you, you are just motivated by hatred. from the very start you came at me like an enraged polar bear.
the first occasion was when i merely posted a notice about an exhibit & talk in the national museum regarding michael collins and the gaa. your rabid response to that showed you were suffering from deep-rooted problems.
i hope this is the last i hear from you, but i am pessimistic.
i fear you will resort to your usual trick of creating identities.