CIE workers protest at Brennan's sell-off / privatisation plan

by Jacko Thu Jan 16, 2003 19:02

"If you've 90minutes to spare standing at a bus stop then maybe you should consider getting a bike, rollerblades etc to get you where you're going??"

"Do you actually use public transport??"

I'd love to use it more often. So I make a point of trying it out once in a while, just in case they sneakily start providing a good service and I end up missing out. And in fairness, Dublin Bus has managed to get me into town any time I've asked them. When it comes to travelling between suburbs though it's a little less reliable. Hence the 90 minutes wait at a bus stop, waiting for the 18. I do take your point though, that a bike or rollerblades would currently be more reliable than Dublin Bus. That's one of the main reasons why I'm in favour of letting someone else try.

by Bystander Wed Jan 15, 2003 16:58

-- slash services to working class areas with high levels of dependence on public transport.

HMmm... the "basket of routes" proposal specifically probhibits this, by bundling lucrative and nonprofit routes in the same package. Schedules and levels of service would have to be agreed and maintained. And given that a 90-minute wait for the number 18 in Dublin is not unheard of even when the drivers aren't on strike or watching the World Cup, how much further can services be slashed?
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Ok, so profitable and unprofitable routes are bundled together, effectively cancel one another out = no profits for the taking = no capitalists (sorry, the "private sector") are interested = why the fuck the privatise it in the first place!

I didn't know the world cup was still on!! And when was the last strike/stoppage by bus & rail workers?

If you've 90minutes to spare standing at a bus stop then maybe you should consider getting a bike, rollerblades etc to get you where you're going??

-- soon after privatisation be agitating to get rid of free travel for over-65's, etc. Because the f**ckwits have no conception of what it means to provide a public service - which CIE do, warts and all.
Stunning. You have no idea who will be operating the routes yet you can conclude all of the above. CIE have a monopoly on the provision of a public service. I wouldn't go so far as to say they provide one.
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No idea, granted, but a there's a good chance that Stagecoach will be one such group. A risible company by an standards. Do you actually use public transport??

And remember GATS, which could be used to force any regulating authority to rule that social obligations ie, providing "unprofitable" bus routes or levels of service are barriers to trade.

by D. O'Brien Wed Jan 15, 2003 16:21

Maybe you should look at the history of Irish transport before you join in on the CIE bashing?

CIE was established in 1948 as a state company because the private sector were pulling out of transport big-time. There were hundreds of different railway companies, dozens of bus companies, all competing in a cut-throat manner. People like William Martin Murphy who owned the Dublin United Tramway Co. were in the business for one reason and one reason alone - PROFIT.

Dozens of small railways were closing down. The trams (Dublin and Cork) were closing and generally business was pulling out of all but the most lucrative routes. Public need was nowhere in the equation.

The state in an enlightened decision, moved in and established CIE which took over some of the ailing rail and bus routes. As a state company it was given a special duty / responsibility to ensure that it provided a "social service" which meant that not only profitable routes would have to be maintained. It was obliged to serve areas based on need, not greed.

Over the past two decades the state subvention to CIE has been progressively cut so that it is now practically the lowest in Europe. Now the government under Brennan wants to sell it all off for quick profit.

Congratulations are due to the CIE workers for standing up for their jobs and for a genuine public service. Yes, there are major shortcomings in the service but the blame for that lies with management and the government which is running CIE into the ground.

Somebody should now make the future of CIE an issue with the so-called Partnership talks. It's clear the corrupt union leaders are going to do another dirty deal with IBEC, the government and farmers to keep Geraghty and Co. in cushy jobs but at least lets try and rescue something - the message should go out NO DEAL UNLESS CIE IS GUARANTEED TO REMAIN IN STATE HANDS. I can only dream on

by Jacko Wed Jan 15, 2003 16:07

-- slash services to working class areas with high levels of dependence on public transport.

HMmm... the "basket of routes" proposal specifically probhibits this, by bundling lucrative and nonprofit routes in the same package. Schedules and levels of service would have to be agreed and maintained. And given that a 90-minute wait for the number 18 in Dublin is not unheard of even when the drivers aren't on strike or watching the World Cup, how much further can services be slashed?

-- soon after privatisation be agitating to get rid of free travel for over-65's, etc. Because the f**ckwits have no conception of what it means to provide a public service - which CIE do, warts and all.
Stunning. You have no idea who will be operating the routes yet you can conclude all of the above. CIE have a monopoly on the provision of a public service. I wouldn't go so far as to say they provide one.

-- cut pay conditions for bus and rail workers, lower morale still further and undermine health & safety. And when there is an accident (with full scale privatisation you can sure that it's a "when" not an "if")they'll scuttle behind the governments coat-tails and will pass the buck to whoever they can. See the wake of the rail maintainence companie's responses to the recent Potter's Bar rail crash in the UK.

Whereas CIE has been bullied into paying extortionate rates for substandard service. And you can be sure that no busdriver will be held to blame for any accident caused by him breaking a red light, mowing down a cyclist or stopping in a junction box. It will be a government health and safety issue and they'll all be out on strike for compensation. Far fetched, you think? Sure. But only as outlandish as your wild ramblings.

-- Become dependent on state hand-outs from the off
Unlike CIE which is doing a great job of not needing a handout.

that would soon outstrip any of the current subsidies to CIE companies.
-- oh right. you're back from your time machine again.

Regardless of state handouts fares will be raised relentlessly to meet "earnings" targets and if you complain you'll to f**k yourself.
-- funny that. I've heard a CIE| bus driver say exactly that to a passenger who complained that it was unsafe for the driver to be using a mobile while driving. I'm not sure if this was related or not to the fact that the passenger was a black female.

by Bystander Wed Jan 15, 2003 15:20

If CIE won't do the job, then let's throw the doors open. Get progressive companies into the market who will!

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Who will....

slash services to working class areas with high levels of dependence on public transport.

soon after privatisation be agitating to get rid of free travel for over-65's, etc. Because the f**ckwits have no conception of what it means to provide a public service - which CIE do, warts and all.

cut pay conditions for bus and rail workers, lower morale still further and undermine health & safety. And when there is an accident (with full scale privatisation you can sure that it's a "when" not an "if")they'll scuttle behind the governments coat-tails and will pass the buck to whoever they can. See the wake of the rail maintainence companie's responses to the recent Potter's Bar rail crash in the UK.

Become dependent on state hand-outs from the off
that would soon outstrip any of the current subsidies to CIE companies. Regardless of state handouts fares will be raised relentlessly to meet "earnings" targets and if you complain you'll to f**k yourself.

These are just the points that come immediately to mind.

by Jacko Wed Jan 15, 2003 15:01

It would be great to see some progress made against the hidebound reactionaries that are CIE Unions.

For too long, CIE has been unwilling or unable to tackle these unions headon. This is why we, the people, have been suffering substandard, dirty, surly, chaotic, unintegrated services for too long. There would appear to be those who believe that CIE's primary role is as an employer to be screwed at every turn, rather than as a potential provider of a clean, comfortable, efficient alternative to choking the streets with private cars.

If CIE won't do the job, then let's throw the doors open. Get progressive companies into the market who will!