Under what law

by iosaf Wed Dec 11, 2002 14:31

yesterday as I reported the spanish navy finally almost a month after the Prestige Disaster were sent by Aznar to the coasts of northern Spain.
4500 military personel are now arguing with eco-volunteers from Galizia to Cantabria.
The leader of the autonomous Basqu government is losing the plot, "how could Aznar think to send soldiers to the Basque beaches?"

And then as if by magic, another story appears on the Spanish Navy.
in international waters, bordering on four very high security marine zones, administered by
US navy, France and Britain.
the Spanish do a sea search.
scuds under cement was the newsflash here in BCN last night.
just as the Spanish vice president of the EU commision went on Spanish TV to talk about eco-bombs in international sea lanes, and how all of the EU has to come together to deal with them.

You´re quite right this is dodgy legally.
but ahem so are SCUD missiles.
I rather thought SCUDs were unfashionable, it´s been years since that SAM was mentioned.
where are the Patriot missiles that are usually batched and delivered at the same time?

Yemen?
hmmm.
That particular zone of the Indian ocean is no go for almost everyone.
The British then the US actually evicted a whole island community from that part of the world so they could do "tests" without any humans about.

The French never suffered as much attention there as at Bikini Atohl but you get the picture.

If you want to follow this up, go to the International Maritime organsation in London.
Albert Embankment.
or better ask the Irlgov.ie
by telephone.
My intial feelings are this is more to with French security interests than Bush´s for the moment.
I´ll explain later if you like.
Of course it´s very Bush style, but The French stand to gain more shortterm strategic advantage from this particular "jolly good show España" effort.

by Mike Wed Dec 11, 2002 14:50 stepbystepfarm at shaysnet dot com

Matt, perhaps you are unaware of this but by traditonal international law of the sea the "man-o-war" of ANY nation may stop and search ANY merchant ship. The merchant ship DOES have to identify itself, stop, and produce its papers, and allow a search so the manifest can be compared to the actual cargo.

There are several reasons why. First of all, rememeber that the rules of war at sea are different than on land. Disguise is allowed until the moment shooting breaks out (and of course before radio, a "man-o-war" couldn't expect to know if her country WAS at war with another and so was considered always "in harms way"). So she gets to check that the "merchantman" isn't another warship in disguise. Second, "men-o-war" of all nations all are charged with combatting piracy (and a cargo not matching the manifest is suspicious to say the least -- WHERE did it come from).

In particular, a cargo of arms MUST specify "to whom to be delivered".

Let's wait, shall we, if the nation where this merchant ship was registered files a diplomatic complaint of "harrassment". I have a funny feeling you won't see that happen.

by Phil Wed Dec 11, 2002 15:09

Also the ship was travelling without a flag, and initially claimed just to be carrying cement, whcch has proven to be wrong.

This alone gives Spain the legal right to sieze the ship for further examination.

by Paul O'Donovan Wed Dec 11, 2002 15:37

but it was in the Arabian Sea?

by Max Gorgon Wed Dec 11, 2002 15:38 thoughtful at youknowtoremovethisplayful dot com

It has actually worked out, to some extent, that George Bush's condemnation of the North Korean government has *increased* their credibility, because W has so little. However, don't get this one wrong. North Korea is truly the most brutal and horiffic regime on Earth. They make Saddam look like a jovial collegian..

If you don't believe me, read the defectors accounts at these URLs:

http://judiciary.senate.gov/testimony.cfm?id=292&wit_id=665

http://monthly.chosun.com/html/200201/200201280001_1.html

http://monthly.chosun.com/html/200006/200006130003_1.html

http://nkhumanrights.or.kr/ttboard_release/ttboard.cgi?category=&search_method=&search_mode=&search_word=&act=view&code=30&bname=WITNESS&page=1&SearchBlock=1

http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/nkdefec3.htm

http://ncafe.com/northkorea/youngkuklee.html

I honestly wish that all of the defectors account were wrong and that Kim Jong Il was truly 'getting a bad rap'. It would mean that many people would not have died.. However, he IS thoroughly evil. He has shocked many socialists with his raw brutality..as well as everybody else.

One has to wonder why Bush has soft-pedaled NKs human rights record.

It is not just because of Bush's terrible record of indifference to human rights..

Perhaps it is because he doesn't want us to feel sorry for the poor and mind-numbingly opressed people of a nation that we may have to annihilate..

by nina Wed Dec 11, 2002 15:49 nina at ninette dot org

Hi,

Is there not a contradiction between on the one hand spending time complaining about Bush's axe of evil and his good and bad view of humanity and on the other hand do the same only that the US is the bad side and the Yemen the good side? Both are as stupid in my view.

The fact that the US as well as all NATO countries are in breach of basic human right law by having and threatening people with nuclear weapons does not grant other countries to right to do the same.

Also Iosaf wrote in a previous message something about French strategic advantage. As it is a bit difficult to get critical info about a country you live in I would be interested to read your argument. Thanks.

Nina

by iosaf - nunca mas. Wed Dec 11, 2002 18:50 iosaf at email dot com

well the Ministry of Truth people of New World Order have said that the brave Spanish navy, who have been a bit humiliated in these recent times, not being able to do anything effective about the "PRESTIGE", and being a figure of fun in España for having to deal with Sr. Aznar´s new flag saluting ceremony in front of their headquarters have boarded a boat in the Indian Ocean and been very effective and powerful and stuff.
see their website:
http://www.revistanaval.com/es/
and check out Washington newspìn:

now we require background to all talk of the sea/ocean.
quickly read the nodal text on the PRESTIGE.

http://ireland.indymedia.org/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=18493

this and all it´s comments is important if you want to think about what is happening at SEA. you may also look at an Irish interest story just before (how I opened the "PSIPHI" story of our Seas).
http://ireland.indymedia.org/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=16651

now today´s sea is the indian ocean.
look briefly at this webpage. don´t bother reading it life is short, just check out the animations of sattelite stuff and submarine stuff and get the high tech big Brother knows everything picture.
http://www-indoex.ucsd.edu/

Now the French are powerful.
the USA as we all know are the biggest most powerful ever ever but the French are still a global power.
They have independent nuclear strike capabilities, loads of capitalist crdentials and territories all over the globe, mostly administered as integral parts of La France.

Check your € note and see Fench Guyana on the map on teh bottom. That´s where we (EU) put our stuff into space. I do hope you read my first PRESTIGE article carefully, it is becoming more relevant day by day.
http://ireland.indymedia.org/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=18493

Now the España frigate that did the brave deed.
the Navarre.
hmmm. I the psiphi believe that names are very important. We live in times of disinformation and lies, and great catastrophes some of which can not be hidden. Navarre is a northern region of the Iberian peninsula. Lots of Basques live there.

The Navarre dealt with the Morrocco earlier this year to expel the handful of soldiers who had landed on Leila/Perijil island.

as we say in Barcelona
"contra la humiliación de España".
a very Aznar concept.
Mr Aznar is obsessed with the hhumiliation of España, and how to stop it. That is why he behaved the way he did for the first six months of this year the Spanish presidency of the EU. He finally by summer time had started a flag saluting ceremony at the Naval academy in Madrid.
The largest Spanish flag in history.
30metres long!
Readers remember that shortly after Catalan nationalists made a bigger Catalan flag. It was all very silly. Well no. It was a symbol.
now in Irish we have a seanfhocal:
Ná leathnaigh do bhrat muna féidir leat á chosaint.
=Don't unfurl your flag if you are unable to defend it.
quite right too.

Mr Aznar went on to criminalise a poltical party as part of his war on terrorism and helping Mr Bush. Mr Aznar went on to try and mimic Mr Burleyskoni and the rest.
vive España! sort of stuff.

then the PRESTIGE sank.
ironic isn´t it.
Read my first text.
now know that the French have done almost everying useful that any state has done on this crises. It was only this week that ESPAÑA sent it´s state employees to the beaches.
Aznar as I noted in my regular updates did not go.

But the King did. as I said "to the furthest point of his realm". Now I also commented on the look on the Kings face.
I suggested that heads would roll when the full significance of that look of despair on the King´s face hit home.
Well it has started to hit home.

The newspapers today say 125 tonnes of fuel leave the shipwreck everyday, from 14 holes.
Yesterday I said 200 tonnes and 35km buckets.

The Basques are quite rightly deeply offended at Aznar´s suggestion to send Spanish navy and army personel to their beaches.

Gallizian nationalism is at it´s strongest ever.

The Flag can not be defended, Mr Aznar ought never have flown it.

So to the Indian Ocean,
just as España is being humiliated, the very same frigate, a small vessel by Western Civilisation standards, makes it´s second blow for España´s pride this year.
?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿como¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?
=?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?how?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?

look at that indian ocean webpage again.
just for 10 seconds then come back here.
http://www-indoex.ucsd.edu/
nice to have your attention.

now think about this story.
it has caught many people´s attention.
and Mr Bush is blamed, look at the article we are commenting on.
hmmmm.

Scud missiles are a household name are they not?
almost brand recognition.
they were developed by the Soviets using WW2 technology. Nazi German V2 missile technology.
They were adjusted by the Iraqis in the first Kuwaiti War, their name is associated with
Saddam the bad.

check out this website:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/12/11/missile.ship.spain/index.html
now that´s CNN NewWorldOrder Ministry of Truth central telling it´s subscribors that a Spanish official is explaining how a joint US Spanish exercise has confiscated SCUD missiles [read bad bad Saddam the mad] from North Korea [read North Korea bad bad mad] on route to Yemen [read home of Osama bad bad mad].

please note that España is not negotiating the return of the weapons.

So the Americans are waving Sr. Aznar´s little flag.
But where are they waving that little flag?
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/xo.html
let the CIA tell you.
now I metioned France didn´t I?
I suggested that France will profit from this little flag waving exercise more than either Bush / U.S. navy or Madrid España, whose proud minister has been reduced to an official.

France is presently supporting the aims of Spanish national vice President of the EU commision in her efforts to secure international sea lanes.
France has lost an oil tanker in the recent past off the coast of .......Yemen.
France is presently (as always) at the heart of a developing pan-European energy and transport intiative.
France is owed big time by flag waving España for it´s big powerful state behavour of recent weeks.
France and incidently Ireland will support these new intiatives being made by Spanish vice pres.

She´s really happy with her "floating ecological bombs" line, and even though it wasn´t hers to begin with, you´ll hear it lots, I´m sure the Dail will get a translated version soon.
Now inreturn for support to her vision of ending flags of convenience, which incidently are a British merchant navy problem more that the French, you can be pretty damned sure that France will do well out of any future pan-European energy deal. (It´s in their state interest, and is allowed by the realpowers at the U.S. state department).
I know I´ve not answered the question as well as I could, but that´s because I´m not ready too.
But to summarise, this is a very convenient opportunity for little Espàña under more internal psychic stress than at any stage since 1936 to feel big and part of the NWO thing. But the King has realised what Galizia means.
Spain is a satelite dependent on France´s version of a European future.
And France will win on the Indian ocean thing. check their diplomacy over the forthcoming weeks on Iraq. France by the way sells the little known alternative to the household brand name SCUD missile.
¿isn´t it strange how it all works together?
more info on Scuds at:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/weapons/scud.html

by The_Observer Tue Dec 24, 2002 02:50

I Think Iosaf has see too much X-Files.

BTW, there is a flag in spain bigger that that in Madrid. It is in Valencia (si, el Regne de Valencia). Over Serrano's Towers. And nobody has said nothing about it never. Maybe because is the flag of the Kingdom of Valencia. Then.. whats the problem of having a smallest flag of Spain in the capital of the Kingdom of Spain? Well i know... nazionalist only belive his true. They can be proud of his land, but others cannot be prud of theirs.

BTW, the S.N.S. Navarra wasn't in Morrocco. It has been in Indian ocean since mid summer. Ships with no flag are pirate ships. Any warship can (and must register) a pirate ship. I don like Dubya, but North Korea is not the heaven. A ship travelling from NK with ballistic missils with a range of 900 km that could carrie a nuclear or chemical warhead (like the sames in Pakistan) hiden under cargo isn't a joke. The bad new is the spaniards hasn't sink it.

by iosaf long after Sun May 18, 2003 17:27

attended to Laila islands dispute with Morroco (kingdom of) these islands are claimed by both Morroco and Spain.
The Spanish call them "perijil".
the english call them parsley islands.
the catalan language doesn't talk of them, the valencian flag did not fly from a military academy, if it did, we'd all hear about it.