Student Rally Against The Govt Tomorrow

by OK - SP Tue Dec 03, 2002 17:59

I hope that there will be a big crowd there. The issue of fees may have died down a bit in the minds of many, but I think that the cuts of the budget will remind students that this government is serious about bringing in fees (though they are likely to do it by hikes in reg. fee in my opinion)

Would it not be better to be outside Dáil? there is another anti-cuts demo on there at 1pm called by Left TDs, trade unionists, and community activists. I think it would be good to join in with this demo. Possibly march from Finance to Dáil.

by Finghin - CFE Tue Dec 03, 2002 18:00

Buses have been organised which will be going to the rally.

Meet outside the arts block at 12.30.

I think when the rally is finished we should consider meeting up with the other demonstrations on Kildare St. What do people think?

by Mike - none Tue Dec 03, 2002 18:06

I think that you should come clean about the 'other demo', it's no surprise that OK and Finghin are trying to get anti-fees students to come to a demo that's being led by Joe Higgins.

There's no problem with looking for student support but you shouldn't do it by using SWP tactics.

by Finghin Tue Dec 03, 2002 18:27

It's not the 'Joe Higgins' demo. It's being supported by many TDs, trade union activists and community groups.

I just think that it might be advantagous if we were to have one large demo against this government rather than a number of smaller ones. Community groups, the trade unions and other organisations such as SUs must come together if we are to have an effective campaign against the governments cuts that will really take on this government.

I was just suggesting it, if people don't want it that's fine by me.

by Dave Tue Dec 03, 2002 18:37

it makes sence to me that the USI protest join in with the other one. Afterall students are against all cuts, the cuts the trade unionists and communities face are part of the same governments cut-backs.

Students should not be sectarian and not join in with the other demo that will be going to Dáil.

The demo tomorrow is called by a number of TDs and activists. Joe Higgins (SP), Tony Gregory (Ind), Finian McGrath (Ind), Séamus Healy (WUAG), Cllr Clare Daly (SIPTU activist, SP), Mick O'Reilly (ATGWU). I know that other left activists from TUs will be there. For students not to join in would be totally wrong.

by Angrier Activist - A Democratic Socialist Youth Tue Dec 03, 2002 18:38

The SY turn people off with their dogmatic style. Most students who want to fight back dont want to know about Marxism. But the SY shove it down their throats.

If it wasnt for them, you could expect a bigger turn out from UCD.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Tue Dec 03, 2002 18:41 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Despite the curious constant omission Sinn Féin TD Martin Ferris will be speaking at the protest tomorrow as well.

by Dave Tue Dec 03, 2002 18:50

Sorry for leaving out Martin Ferris. I just didnt know if you guys would be at it.

by OK - SP Tue Dec 03, 2002 19:01

I'm sick of people putting up silly sectarian posting against SY. If you are to criticise us do it, and back up your arguements. (your criticisms would have more credibility if you gave your name)

I have my suspicions of who it is, but I think you should name yourself. You call yourself "for a democratic SY". If you were a member you would know that SY is very democratic. We have regular meetings, all positions are elected and subject to re-call. Minority opinions are respected.

"The SY turn people off with their dogmatic style. Most students who want to fight back dont want to know about Marxism. But the SY shove it down their throats."

When have we ever shoved marxism down the throats of people? we are not the SWP, I know that SA members had a bad experience with the SWP. You have to realise that we have a very very different approach to them. If you worked with us more outside UCD you would see this.

We are entitled to sell our paper on demos. Why should anyone try to impose THEIR ideas of parties on others? I dont think that different organisations being on a demo turns people off. Why dont you attack Labour, SF, CPI, SA, SWP who were all at the last CFE demo. Labour had a largebanner at the front of the march for heaven's sake!

"If it wasnt for them, you could expect a bigger turn out from UCD."

Who do you think has been putting up posters all day for this demo? It's been members of the CFE, including SY members. The numbers from UCD would be bigger if we had the full backing of the full-time SU officers. And if we had more time. I think that those that did lecture addresses, put up posters, put out leaflets should be congratulated for their hard work!

by Finghin - Socialist Youth Tue Dec 03, 2002 19:08

"If it wasn't for them you'd expect a larger turnout from UCD"

That's a load of rubbish. Who put up most of the posters today in UCD? I spent all day putting up SU posters for the march, as did other members of SY as well as members of SA, Labour and the SU. To say that we only care about building our own organisation at the expence of the wider movement is quite simply a lie. Why don't you reveal who you are so we can see how much building for these deoms that you do.

You make reference to our dogmatic style, please give details when exactly have we 'forced Marxism down people throats'.

What I suggested that we should consider linking up with the other demo. That is not forcing anything down anyones throat, if most people don't want to do that that's fine by me. Surely as participants in tomorrows demo we have a right to suggest a route?

If we are to take on this government effectivley students need to make links with the wider workers movement. The other demo is not just a SP demo, it is supported by many other TDs, trade union activists and community groups.

by Harold Tue Dec 03, 2002 19:21

I don't know who's doing the 'forcing down throats', is it the SP who it seems to have been active in mobilising for protests tomorrow or is it the pseudo anarchists* that want to force their non part ideology on others, as a result weakening the movement against this government. BTW I am NOT a member of the SP.

(*I have alot of respect for anarchists that are genuine and involved in struggle, I just hate these middle class armchair activists that call themselves anarchists)

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Tue Dec 03, 2002 19:23 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

I think people are being a wee bit hard on the SP here. First off, they played a role in organising the CFE and the demo tomorrow and this is a _good_ thing. It is _good_ that people organise things. It is _bad_ when people do fuck all. I'm not in UCD and don't know the ins and outs of who hates who over there but I know a Sinn Féin member was on the protest in the Finance Dept this morning and I know an SF speaker and members will be at the march tomorrow. I don't see that as signs of sectarianism from the SP.

Secondly, maybe the SP people in UCD are forcing their policies down people's throats but I would be somewhat surprised if they were. On marches etc. I've been on with SP people they tend to be less aggressive than other parties or organisations one could mention in recruiting members. They've a perfect right to bring placards to events they support as do we, or Labour, or any other party or organisation involved.

Thirdly, well done to the SP people involved in organising both against the fees in UCD and the demo tomorrow. We spend far too much time attacking each other on Indymedia, a bit of credit where it's due shouldn't go amiss either.

by Ger UCD Tue Dec 03, 2002 19:47

You are not helping by your prolier than thou attitude. I pointed out that myself and my mates wer turned off by the Soc Yth antics and I got savaged.

I'm not interestedin SY or SWP or SA or SP or SF or WSM or Labour, I just want to be able to fight the cuts without it being hijacked by a bunch of preachers.

by conor - ucd sa Tue Dec 03, 2002 22:38 conor at ziplip dot com

what if

students go to the student demo,and are told whereto go if they wanna go to the other one.

this is a good deal.they dont get hearded into a bolshie one solution demo,but if they are feelin a bit broader, and down with the class struggle thing,then :-]

well done to all the occupiers today!

by Dave Wed Dec 04, 2002 11:28

Yesterday's occupation was well covered on TV3 news. Shame about RTÉ, i think that's deliberate on their part.

It was also good to see that TV3 covered the anti-cuts demo aswell. Joe Higgins, Tony Gregory and SY on Grafton St doing a stall/publicity stunt.

by Censor watcher Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:02

There was nothing on RTE Radio 1 or on 2fm yesterday either. Definitly censorship on their part.