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news report
 Monday November 25, 2002 16:00 by Finghin - Socialist Party
 THE FOLLOWING debate took place in the Dail (20/11/02), between Joe Higgins, Socialist Party TD, and the Minister for Justice, Eqaulity & Law Reform, Michael McDowell (PDs). The debate was concerned with the proposed 'Government Estimates' cuts, but in typical fashion, the Minister avoided the questions and proceeded to hurl abuse at Deputy Higgins. The Minister also shows his lack of understanding of the differences between genuine Marxism and Stalinism. Download the audio here http://www.geocities.com/newbridge_liberation_front/joehiggins20-11-02.mp3 Mr. J. Higgins: I welcome a delegation of striking fire-fighters from Northern Ireland to the Visitor's Gallery and express my solidarity and that of Irish workers and the Socialist Party with their just struggle. The publication of the Estimates for public expenditure reveals an utterly discredited crew of politicians ruling this State and calling themselves a Government who have lied and cheated their way back into power and then with cynical callousness kicked in the teeth those who they duped into believing them. What a cast of characters we have had thrown up in the recent days since the publication of these Estimates. The Minister for Finance and his party leader have been widely labelled as cowboys, unfairly because there is no evidence that a majority of those who honesty herd cows for a living are chancers and cheats. Then we had the parade of the mighty mice roaring from the safety of the Fianna Fáil backbenches about the abolition of the first-time house buyer's grant. We heard their roars from Cork to Swords and beyond but come 7 p.m. this evening, which of the brave mice will come into this House and bell the McCreevy cat by voting in the lobbies against these draconian measures being introduced by the Government? Clearly, they will stick with their chunk of cheese and will be exposed - I welcome this - as fraudulent champions of young workers. What about the Progressive Democrats? We know the Tánaiste believes working class people are some form of primitive life but what about the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform? His greatest achievement in recent times has been to climb ladders for Ireland during the general election campaign. He has no time to listen to the trauma of those who will endure his cuts; he is too busy hiring aeroplanes to deport a handful of people to Nigeria. How we wish the Minister would leave the few unfortunate asylum seekers here and take the plane to Nigeria and stay there. These cuts coming at the first hint of economic slow down in national and international capitalism signal the beginning of an onslaught on the living standards of working people and the crucial public services on which they depend. For five years this Government has handed billions to speculators, big business, corporations and the wealthy in concessions and cuts in their taxes. It did not lift a finger as the obscene profiteering and speculation in housing doubled and trebled the price of a home putting it outside the reach of working people. What an outrage now that those who the Government kicks are the victims of the speculators rather than the speculators themselves. My call to working people, trade unionists, working class communities, students, youths and to those needing homes is, let us not lie down in front of it anymore - take to the streets, mobilise in open, visible opposition in the unions and communities to a Government which is determined to solve whatever crisis lies down the road on the backs of ordinary people while protecting its rich backers. We will force back these draconian cuts and send the Government scurrying. We will expose its Members for the frauds they are. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): It is very entertaining to hear the incorruptible Deputy from the Socialist Party expostulating on the frauds of others. Let us remind ourselves of one thing - if the public knew the kind of society he really stands for, he would not even have his own seat. He has been peddling Marxist-Trotskyism for years dressed up as socialism. It is Communism with a pink bow tie. It is fair enough if he really believes in his demand that the workers should take to the streets and send the Government scurrying. Mr. J. Higgins: Yes, and I will say it as well. Mr. McDowell: He is doomed to the marginalisation that Trotskyism deserves. Mr. J. Higgins: It is the Minister who is doomed. Mr. McDowell: Marxism has been seen to fail the very people it pretends to protect. This is all cant about the working class. When Marxists had control of Europe they had to erect minefields and barbed wire fences to keep the workers in the paradises that turned out to be tyrannies. Mr. J. Higgins: They were Stalinists, not Marxists. Mr. McDowell: Whether they were Stalinist or Trotskyite the same thing applies. They are all Communists and the people are entitled to know that. If the Deputy stands up in the House to berate others for flying under false colours at elections, he should make it clear that he is a Communist. Why does he not tell his constituents that he wants to bring about Communism in Ireland? Mr. J. Higgins: It is democratic socialism not Communism. Mr. McDowell: No it is not. Socialism is the phrase that is frequently used to dress up Communism by people who are ashamed of what they really stand for. Mr. J. Higgins: This is pathetic. Let us talk about the Estimates now. Mr. McDowell: The Deputy is a fraud, if I may say so. He is a con man who has been peddling Communist politics under a false pretence for a long time. If he does not like the heat then he should get out of the kitchen. The Deputy can give it but he cannot take it. He is blustering away there pretending he is not a Communist. Mr. J. Higgins: Let the Minister justify the cuts. Mr. McDowell: I will yield in this debate if Deputy Higgins will stand up and say that he repudiates Communism and Marxism. He will not do it because he believes in it. That is what he stands for. I defer to nobody and particularly not to Deputy Higgins on a charge of fraudulent politics. In the last election I stood clearly on a platform which had as its primary role the keeping of the finances of the country on a sound basis. Deputy Higgins was the first to say that I would stand for the kind of politics for which I stand. He was the first to go on platforms in his constituency and berate me and hold me up as an object of contempt because I wish to do what it takes to make this country successful. Let us be clear about this. The Deputy is a Trotskyite and a Communist. I am not. That is the truth of the matter. I do not wish to hear Deputy Higgins going on about fraudulent politics, fraudulent labels and getting elected by fraud. If the Deputy actually told his constituents what he stands for, the kind of society he wants to create, the kind of society that people like him have created in the past, he would not even save his notional deposit. Mr. J. Higgins: The Minister has said that three times. Let us hear about the cuts. Mr. McDowell: I also want to deal with another contribution that was made by a Member of the technical group. It is important that it should be said, although it may not be the appropriate occasion on which to do it. I completely reject the shallow attack on the Lindsay report which was just delivered in this House. It was a well structured and careful report by a responsible and decent judge. Mr. J. Higgins: Why did the Minister not come in and defend it when it was being debated? Mr. McDowell: Because the Deputy and his friends so badly disrupted the debate that there was not time for me to speak. Mr. J. Higgins: Rubbish. Talk about a fraudulent claim. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please. Mr. J. Higgins: There was loads of time. Mr. McDowell: The Lindsay report which was referred to by Deputy Connolly is a model of clarity, concision and fairness. It is entirely faithful to the terms of reference which this House set for the tribunal. It is a sad day when politicians turn themselves into a lynch mob to turn on the Judiciary to whom they entrust serious inquiries . I completely reject the series of increasingly vindictive and thoughtless attacks on an honourable member of the Judiciary who presented to this House a careful, well balanced and proper report on a subject. Mr. Connolly: It was not the woman's honour I attacked but the cost of the report at €23 million. Mr. McDowell: I entirely reject and distance myself from that type of mealy mouthed lynch mob oratory to the effect that somehow she had let this House down. She most certainly did not and I will stand up for the rights of a judge who cannot defend herself in this House against ignorant criticism of the kind to which she has had to submit. Mr. Connolly: We made the same comments two weeks ago and the Minister had the chance to say it then. Mr. J. Higgins: The Minister is two weeks too late. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please. Mr. McDowell: I wish to deal briefly with some issues more relevant to this debate, the Estimates that are before the House. The Estimates will, in combination with the measures taken on budget day, approximate the growth in public spending to the growth in available revenue. Before the election, that is something which I said I would ensure happened. I, and my party, are clear that if revenue is available we will spend it. If it is not available we will not borrow in order to create the kind of economic mess that brought me into politics in the first place, the situation that existed in 1987 when the country's debt had doubled in five years. We were pictured on the front of The Economist magazine as the sick man of Europe and the IMF was going to come in to rescue us from the absolutely irresponsible politics that had brought us to our knees. Unemployment stood at 250,000 and 19% of workers were without jobs. There were areas, particularly in Deputy Higgins' constituency, with 80% to 90% unemployment. There were no jobs and third generation unemployment was a fact in some houses. It is the policies of the Progressive Democrats in combination with Fianna Fáil that turned this country around and brought unemployment down to 4%. Mr. J. Higgins: No way. Mr. McDowell: The Deputy cannot take it. Ms Lynch: The Minister warned us about Fianna Fáil before the election. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Please allow the Minister without interruption. Mr. McDowell: In the course of the election, the Labour Party only wanted to raise taxes but it was afraid to say it. It suggested that it wanted to bring our tax rates up to the European average. Effectively, that meant that it wanted to double some rates of taxation and make our system of taxation the kind that has driven jobs out of central Europe. It wanted to undo all the work that had been done to make this country successful. Ms Lynch: The Minister warned us about Fianna Fáil before the election. Mr. McDowell: The Deputy will get her opportunity. It wanted to borrow left, right and centre to bring us back to where it really wants the country to be - in a state of economic failure - so that it can weep crocodile tears for that section of society it claims to protect. I believe social justice comes from giving people the chance to participate in the economic life of the country. I do not believe in socialist politics of human set-aside. I do not want to go back to a situation of 250,000 people out of work. Ms Lynch: The Minister wants us all to work for a very low wage.
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Comments (34 of 34)
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Joe Higgins is to be congratulated he almost solely provided any real semblance of opposition to the government in the last Dail.I,m sure Joe will be returned successfully and joined on the benches by his other party colleagues who are contesting this election,I know its too late for now but whats needed after the election, is for Socialists of every hue to sit down and bury their differances and for the sake of the oppressed working people of this country form a true broad based Socialist Party to replace the sell out /so called Labour Party which has abandoned its Socialist principles and is now only a prop for the Blueshirts.
we must now take out the Tanaiste.
obviously we're not putting an ice pick in his back.
We're just applying 5 years of preparation, discussion, practise, attention, concentration, organisation, suffering, poverty, frustration, struggle, joy, comradeship, mobilisation, development, :- fine tuning.
ok, i'm not running scared of any debate(as you will have seen in my postings on other threads), its just a bit dishonest of you & finghin to accuse others of launching attacks on the sp when you use every republican posting as an opportunity to attack sf or the irsp or republicans in general.
IS THERE ONE LAW FOR THE SP & ANOTHER FOR EVERYONE ELSE?
you cant evade the fact that trotsky lenin & the comintern supported the ira & actually encouraged the republican side in the irish civil war to conquer the 6 counties by military means.
the metadone clinic episode is true. i challenge any member of the sp who was in militant labour to come on indymedia & deny it. back copies of your papers are available inlibraries you know.
anyway, i wont be back to this thread but i will continue to correct your distortins on other threads where necessary.
OK says 'We do not ignore the writings of marxists on the national question. .... Why don't you actually read what we say on the national question in Ireland....We stand for a socialist united Ireland that is a part of a socialist confederation of Britain and Ireland, as part of a socialist Europe.'
You might not ignore the writings of the Marxists in question but you don't learn from them. This federation nonsense is just a way of ignoring questions of oppression and imperialism. Its a form of Kautskyism - use workers unity to avoid difficult questions on the ground. Equating republicanism with loyalism is exactly what union bureaucrats do. The result is you hide from taking on oppression - the SP don't go down to Short Strand and participate in rallies against attacks, they attacked other Socialists for organising trade union delegations to Harryville church and they have avoided for 30 years the Bloody Sunday march (until last year for some reason - when they refused to march but sold papers at the end)
kärlek for ye agin Mc Dowell.
and how are the flying pickets doing?
:-)
We do not have illusions in a 'fair' police force under capitalism. The fact is that capitalism will not create an accountable police force under community control. By calling for this you are not taking a reformist position. The only way a genuine community controlled police force can be created is on the basis of socialism.
Again, I dont know where you get this idea of us opposing a methadone clinic in a "nice area". If you're going to throw accusations around please back them up.
Back to Trotsky and "Irish National Liberation Struggle". Socialists should support a national liberation movement and should intervene into that movement and direct it towards a socialist direction. In Ireland the IRA are not a "movement", they are self-appointed. They are not the result of a mass movement. The Provos are born out of the failure of the Civil Rights movement's leadership and the despiration of northern catholics. The IRA are actually quite right-wing, their image of being 'left wing' is new, since the failure of the civil rights movement. The SP wish to help build a mass workers' party that will fight the bosses in Ireland, Britain and internationally.
The QUB thing has been dealt with. In case you didn't read the postings I will repeat myself. The SP do not support recruitment to a capitalist army. We do not support the British army having a recruitment stand in QUB. You are mis-quoting and misunderstanding the words of one member of ours in QUB. Maybe you should ask yourself would you oppose a recruitment stand for the Irish Army in UCD? You probably wouldn't!
You are free to raise whatever criticisms you like of the SP. I'll reply to them. I think you are running scared now that I've replied to all your 'criticisms'. If you dont want to engage in debate that's fine with me!
"1. we are not going to agree on the national question. but everytime you quote trotsky on individual terrorism, i will supply a trotsky quote in support of the irish national liberation struggle."
People will always be able to find quotes and use them completely out of context. Its quite clear that the situation that Trotsky was talking about in the 20s and 30s is very different to today. In any case this support that Troitsky gave was a highly critical support, he pointed out the right wing nature of leadership.
"2. the qub incident has never really been answered. the sp continue to hound other groups on certain issues. until a genuine reply is given on this, it will continue to be raised."
It has been answered, there has been a genuine reply given. Look at the other posts. What do you want exactly?
"3. i fail to see the difference between community policing & support for the police. i fear it is sowing illusions as to what police control is possible under capitalism."
We have no illusions in the police force. The police force exist in all class societies and are there ultimatly to protect the interests of a particular class. Under capitalism the police force will protect the interests of the ruling class, in reality capitalism will not allow a genuinly community run and accountable police force. This kind of police force is only really achievable under socialism, in this way the call for an accountable police force is a transitional as it points towards evolutionary conclusions.
"4. it was back in 1996/7 that you opposed the siting of a metadone clinic. you may have been militant labour then."
I don't think that's true. Give some evidence if you can.
"5. differences are differences. but if you virulently attack every posting from sf & the irsp then you're going to leave yourself open to misinterpertation like you did under the solidarity thread. if you do choose to attack in this manner, you are hardly in a position to condemn attackss on the sp as sectarian or even spam. to say the least, its two-faced."
We are right to point out the bankruptcy of nationalism. I make no apologies for pointing out the true dead end nature of republicanism. If any loyalists were putting up postings we would criticise them too. At the same time I do recognise that SF do have many good activists as members, but it would be wrong not to point out these differences.
"6. i think from some of the above observations, it could be argued that the sp have adopted SOME reformist positions. but thats just my opinion."
We are trotskyists and we use the method outlined in the 'transitional programme' in formulating our demands. I'm not saying that we have always had perfect transitional demands, but you can't deny that we are merely reformists.
It very disengenuinous to go on here attack us and then say that you don't really want to. If you don't really want to why did you start this debate?
BTW
I think you should look into the Liverpool 'Militant' council in more depth (we didn't actually have a majority).
i have already responded to finghins response.
i will however add:
1. we are not going to agree on the national question. but everytime you quote trotsky on individual terrorism, i will supply a trotsky quote in support of the irish national liberation struggle.
2. the qub incident has never really been answered. the sp continue to hound other groups on certain issues. until a genuine reply is given on this, it will continue to be raised.
3. i fail to see the difference between community policing & support for the police. i fear it is sowing illusions as to what police control is possible under capitalism.
4. it was back in 1996/7 that you opposed the siting of a metadone clinic. you may have been militant labour then.
5. differences are differences. but if you virulently attack every posting from sf & the irsp then you're going to leave yourself open to misinterpertation like you did under the solidarity thread. if you do choose to attack in this manner, you are hardly in a position to condemn attackss on the sp as sectarian or even spam. to say the least, its two-faced.
6. i think from some of the above observations, it could be argued that the sp have adopted SOME reformist positions. but thats just my opinion.
i have no desire to spend my time criticising the sp but if you make it necessary , i will continue to do so (reluctantly). lets fight the system not each other.
"1. tell us why they ignore all of the writings of engels, marx, lenin, trotsky & the comintern on ireland?"
We do not ignore the writings of marxists on the national question. I have replied to many of your points about this, you are taking quotes out of context. We stand for workers' unity as the only solution to the national question (in Ireland, Israel/Palestine, Belgium, Nigeria... everywhere!). Why don't you actually read what we say on the national question in Ireland. We stand for a socialist united Ireland that is a part of a socialist confederation of Britain and Ireland, as part of a socialist Europe.
"2. why wont they tell us what they are going to do about their brit army recruting sergeant in QUB?"
Again, you are taking quotes out of context. We do not support recruitment to any capitalist army.
"3. why does a revolutionary party call for more gardai on the beat?"
Where did you find this one? We never call for more Gardaí. What we say is that the police force should be under community control. Communities should control the police force in their area and set the policing agenda. If there was a workers' state tomorrow there would be a police force, the difference is that it would be under the control of workers.
"4. why do members of the sp join in with rightwingers in attacking virtually every republican & socialist republican posting on newswire?"
We do not join with rightwingers. We expose the false positions, sectarianism and incorrect approach of Republicans and Nationalists on this newswire. We are entitled to criticise Nationalists when they put forward their views. Nationalism offers nothing to working people or this country, and we will say that whenever we have the opportunity.
"5. given the reformist policies of the sp why dont they merge with the labour party?"
Where are the reformist policies? pick out one! As a Trotskyist party we have a transitional approach. We put forward demands that link into the everyday reality of life. From these demands it is clear that we are pointing people towards socialist conclusions.
You probably dont know but we were expelled from/left the Social Democratic Parties. We were the Militant Tendency of the Labour Party. What we were calling for in Labour was not reformism, but for Labour to adopt a socialist programme.
"6. Why did the SP oppose the siting of Methadone clincs in "nicer" areas?"
This is a new one for me! where did you get this?
"1. We don't."
oh dear, you ignore all of their writings on ireland. otherwise you wouldnt have such a reactionary position on the north. do you really want some more trotsky quotes supporting ira action?
"2. That has been dealt with on a previous thread."
it hasnt. you havent said whether the sp have investigated this & if so what action they have taken against the recruting sergeant.
"3. We don't call for more Gardaí. I'd like to know where you found that one."
you call for more community gardai
"4. We don't attack republicans on the newswire. We point out the true nature of republican leadership and the counter productive nature of individual terrorism. Do you think we should just ignore our differences?"
differences are diffeences. but you join in when southern loyalists are denying that catholics are being ethnically cleansed.
"5. We are not reformists."
well, thats open to debate. (this is ashort reply)
"6. No we don't, like no. 3 I'd like to know where you found that one."
yes you did, under the guise that local residents should have been consulted. the usual cop out. read back copies of your paper.
"Why dont republicans and inparticular SF answer any of the posts regarding the cuts they've implemented,"
sf can answer re the cuts at stormont.
but why did militant issue thiusands of redundancy notices when they were in power in liverpool?
"their international 'links' "
are you joining in the emonisation of farc & eta & pflp? have you joined the bush crusade? it really looks as if the sp are taking up the mantle left vacant by the sticks.
"and their dubious links with big business america?"
thats something for sf to answer. but i'm all for taking money from capitalists. they'll give you the rope to hang them with.
1. We don't.
2. That has been dealt with on a previous thread.
3. We don't call for more Gardaí. I'd like to know where you found that one.
4. We don't attack republicans on the newswire. We point out the true nature of republican leadership and the counter productive nature of individual terrorism. Do you think we should just ignore our differences?
5. We are not reformists.
6. No we don't, like no. 3 I'd like to know where you found that one.
Why dont republicans and inparticular SF answer any of the posts regarding the cuts they've implemented, their international 'links' and their dubious links with big business america?
why dont the sp give us some answers instead of hyperbole & continous evasion:
1. tell us why they ignore all of the writings of engels, marx, lenin, trotsky & the comintern on ireland?
2. why wont they tell us what they are going to do about their brit army recruting sergeant in QUB?
3. why does a revolutionary party call for more gardai on the beat?
4. why do members of the sp join in with rightwingers in attacking virtually every republican & socialist republican posting on newswire?
5. given the reformist policies of the sp why dont they merge with the labour party?
6. Why did the SP oppose the siting of Methadone clincs in "nicer" areas?
Funny old bunch the SP they can slag people off to their hearts content but they get outraged if anyone criticises them back or dares to point out the contradictions in their policies.
My dear comrades, if you want to up the cold war then thats fine with me. However I think both your time & mine would be put to better use if we were fighting against cutbacks,bin charges etc.
sorry for confusing you with the other socialists I met one very memorable day.
see:
http://sweden.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=574
Pat why don't you just do it, go and join Sinn Fein or some other nationalist sectarian rump and stop spamming up this newswire with your constant stream of republican crap. Would they not have you??? is that it. Are you a disapointed sectarian???
Iosaf, You claim to know a bit about Sweden, I was there for the recent elections working for RS. I know what our programme in Sweden is like the back of my hand, it is not that of the USFI/SP.
PS
Sorry for posting the above text twice, it was a mistake on my behalf.
We are not called the Socialist Party in Sweden. In Sweden the CWI section is called Rattvisepartiet Socialisterna (Socialist Justice Party). We are larger than the USFI there, for more details about our party in Sweden go to www.socialisterna.org
I'm confused.
Rattvisepartiet Socialisterna is not in the USFI. RS, like the SP here in Ireland, are in the Committee for a Workers' International.
In terms of elections we get far more votes than that party you mention. In 1998 we won 2 seats in Umea, and in elections this year we won 3 seats in Umea and 2 in Lulea.
I think you got a bit mixed up about who we are!
Ideological orientation: Trotskyist
Address: Box 60 87, S-102 32 Stockholm
Tel.: +46-(0)8 - 31 08 50
Fax: +46-(0)8 - 441 45 76
E-mail: [email protected]
Founded: 1969
Leader:
Publicaciones: Internationalen (weekly)
Representation in parliament: No
Election results: SP participates in elections to the national parliament in some regions (1998: 1 466 votes, 1994: 7 827 votes) and in elections to some municipal councils; Köping 2,18% (322 votes, 1 seat), Kungsör 2,04% (101 votes, 1 seat), Stockholm 0,17%(789 votes, 0 seats), Nyköping 0,14% (45 votes, 0 seats), Eskilstuna 0,35% (181 votes, 0 seats), Strängnäs 0,35% (60 votes, 0 seats), Linköping 0,28% (233 votes, 0 seats), Umeå 0,55% (342 votes, 0 seats), Jönköping 0,81% (579 votes, 0 seats) and Lund 0,18% (115 votes, 0 seats)
International relations: Swedish section of the United Secretariat of the Fourth International
Images:
History: SP has it's origins in RMF (League of Revolutionary Marxists), which was formed in 1969 when the two groups Revolutionary Marxists and the Bolshevik Group unified themselves. RMF was renamed KAF (Communist Workers' League) in 1976. Later, in 1982, they took the name Socialistiska Partiet (Socialist Party).
kärlek pa (little circle on the "a") svenska socilastiska och irske socialistiska.
ochsa "socialismus".
dear "OK SP" I know Sweden very very well.
and I urge you to check your socialist brethren there and see if they supported
free education
free health care
free pensions
and neutrality
before 1995.
I do believe you will see the answer is "JA"
and if not then MC Dowell was right.
I very carefully considered the "irske socialistike partiet" documentation.
and I concluded that you didn´t support a centralised ecomony with civil totalitarianism.
I never thought nor said you supported Social democrats in Sweden, but you can not argue that on several occasions your "svenska bruddert" have not argued against "socialismus".
so there OK SP. when I try and wave your flag for a comment, recognise I´m helping you.
Pandabear lives next door to your "svenska revolutionist Ratvisepartiet Socialisterna".
you really are very uptight, Abraham was right.
Not a mad fan of Joe but he's not on my top 20 CuteHoorz list - McDowell and co. are brute and gotta go.
Anyways....GIVE US MORE MP3z, AUDIO AND VIDEO - IMC text is great but if anyway can up the tech then do so please!
Higgins got his ass kicked. Clearly he's a communist under a different name.
...just realised it was a Socialist Party member that posted that article. I expect they'd be better off in destroying that audio file?
Joe Higgins got hammered in that MP3. Michael McDowell summed up everything I believe is true about Joe Higgins and Socialists/Communists in Ireland & Europe.
"It is the policies of the Progressive Democrats in combination with Fianna Fáil that turned this country around and brought unemployment down to 4%. " "If it is not available we will not borrow in order to create the kind of economic mess that brought me into politics in the first place, the situation that existed in 1987 when the country's debt had doubled in five years." ...and Joe Higgins simply can't accept this honest fact.
He was similarly destroyed on the The Last Word before the election. He spent 20 minutes espousing his far-left claptrap, after which Dunphy replied: "But that's communism Joe, it was tried in Russia, and it was a failure!" Joe Higgins: "OK, OK, we'll be different, we'll make it work." Me: Nearly swallowed my tongue from laughing.
"The Socialist Party is a revolutionary party, based on the ideas of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Trotsky. "
then why did one of your members support the british army having a recruitment stall at qub?
you have blustered & lied about this but you havent given a straight answer.
has your belfast branch investigated this?
"The Socialist Party is a revolutionary party, based on the ideas of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Trotsky. "
then why do you ignore all of their writings regarding ireland?
i find this to be a rather strange application of the marxist method.
A Trot is merely a Stalinist who has not attained power.
..is now on the newswire three times.
Finghin - post it either as a comment to another article or as an article in its own right, not both.
Both were posted at 2.58 so I don't know which one came first - usually we hide the latest-posted version. if it's important enough to be an article then skip adding it as a comment.
Not to mention the fact that most of the transcript is already posted as a comment like Ray said.
Richard Nixon in the Alger Hiss trial!
Justin Moran posted it about a week ago.
What do you mean by "after careful consideration" you looked at the core beliefs of the "Irish Socialist Party" and concluded that our aims are Social Democracy!
The Socialist Party is a revolutionary party, based on the ideas of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Trotsky. We are not Social Democrats, we don't thaink that capitalism can be reformed.
Our organisation is in Sweden, (Ratvisepartiet Socialisterna) we do not hold any illusions in the SDs there or anywhere else, before or after 1995!
By the way we are not "the Irish Socialist Party", we're the Socialist Party, which is the Irish section of the Committee for a Workers' International.
Ghandi (a crazed Indian anarchist in his time, before becoming decontextualised and canonized as a secular angel) had a couple of words that might be relevant: "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win." Minister McDowell is in the third bracket now. He clearly doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, which means that what he is actually attacking is socialist and working class solidarity and organisation generally rather than Joe Higgins in particular (and I'm not a Joe Higgins cheerleader). It leaves you with the interesting conclusion: we must be doing something right.
that in 1948 the Swedish people voted for a socialist project based on Marxist analysis of their country´s problems, which led to one of the highest global standards of living, health and education for the Swedish people regardless of class background.
For the inforamtion of the Minister, this project was called "socialismus" and after careful consideration of the core beliefs and wishes of the Irish Socialist Party, I feel that their vision of marxist politics is very similar to that Swedish reality before the collapse of the Swedish Krona in 1995.
At no stage did Sweden have to erect barbed wire to protect its socialist policies.